Plow plane recommendations

[brian zawatsky]

Hey guys. I'm in the market for a plow plane to replace the table saw for drawer box grooves, cabinet backs, etc. I've sourced a complete vintage Record 044 from a reputable dealer, and I'm between purchasing that or the Veritas small plow plane. The difference in price is about 80 bucks. The advantage to the Record is that it comes with 8 cutters, while the Veritas comes with only 1 at the price I'm willing to pay. This isn't a total put-off, since I want it mainly to cut 1/4" grooves anyway.

Any suggestions either way?

[Patrick Chase]

Hey guys. I'm in the market for a plow plane to replace the table saw for drawer box grooves, cabinet backs, etc. I've sourced a complete vintage Record 044 from a reputable dealer, and I'm between purchasing that or the Veritas small plow plane. The difference in price is about 80 bucks. The advantage to the Record is that it comes with 8 cutters, while the Veritas comes with only 1 at the price I'm willing to pay. This isn't a total put-off, since I want it mainly to cut 1/4" grooves anyway.

Any suggestions either way?

How many irons do you actually need for the work that you do, and how much time can you afford to spend fettling the Record?

Equipping the Veritas with the same 8 irons as the Record will cost an additional $120 or so ($60 for the "small Imperial iron set, another $60 for the 3 larger ones up to 9/16).

Plow blades are pretty easy to tune up (easier than beading/reeding/etc) so if you need all 8 then I think that would argue in favor of the Record even if you're highly hassle-averse.

Full disclosure: I have the Veritas and all of the referenced irons. Do as I say, not as I do :-).

[Frederick Skelly]

Brian, I cant speak to the vintage tool. If it's clean and doesnt need fettling, that's probably a good buy with 8 blades.

If it needs fettling, it's a question of how much you like doing that kind of work and how much time you have.

Myself, I'd drop the coin and get the Veritas. I have it. It's a wonderful tool. Buy 2 new blades whenever free shipping occurs and you can distribute the cost of the extra blades, or get them as stocking stuffers and birthday gifts.

(Or, save another $200 and get the new combo plane. I'm so very tempted.... :D)

[lowell holmes]

I have and like my Veritas small plow plane with all of the cutters including beading. It is good up to 1/2" grooves.
They have a new combination plane that looks like a real keeper to me. It has more cutters and will go up to 3/4" or
maybe wider, I'm not sure.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Brian,

Doing a little math $160 seems a bit steep for a Record #044. Though one has recently sold for more on ebay.

One advantage to the Veritas Small Plow Plane is the availability of blades. It is amazing what adding a bead can do to the appearance of a piece. Another is the availability of metric blades. As much of an imperial size kind of guy my personal tastes prefer it can not be denied that our stores now stock plywood in metric sizes. Lucky for me a friend long ago gave me a set of Record metric blades that fit in my Stanley #45.

Here is my experience with the VSPP:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?251419-VSPP-Veritas-Small-Plow-Plane

My opinion is the VSPP would be easier for a beginner who doesn't like to fiddle with things to get them going. The Veritas blades come sharp. The blades on the #044 will likely need some honing, especially if they still have the factory grind. A few other things make the VSPP more comfortable to use and set up.

In my case a Stanley #50 (Stanley's version of the #044) appeared in my favorite antique mall with a $25 price tag... it had to come home with me. It gets used in a lot of situations where one of my #45s was used in the past.

In your case you may find the #044 to be a good investment. I you later decide you want more features purchase the larger Veritas Combination plane to do the work a small plow isn't made to do.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Maybe this one?
366461
Stanley 45...making grooves for drawer bottoms...
.366462
Type 20, from Roxton Pond Quebec, Canada.....about 1925....a SW era plane
366463
Maple Noodles, anyone?

Sargent made a similar one, called a No. 1080 Cutters and nickers are made differently than the Stanley ones...something about Patents, I think...
Record also made a copy of the 45....

[Ron Patrick]

You should check out Rob Cosman on youtube. He had a video on making a plow plane dedicated to drawer bottoms which didn't look all that hard to make, and worked well. It would certainly be cheaper, assuming you had the time available.

[Patrick Chase]

What are we all thinking here...

Brian, it's absolutely clear that what you need is a Sandusky wooden plow :-).

[steven c newman]

BTDT..
366464
What I used to use...(made about..1864..)

[brian zawatsky]

Thanks for all the replies, gentlemen. Here's the thing. While I know I could obtain a metallic plow plane of some form or another for 50 bucks or less, I prefer to spend the little free time I have working wood rather than restoring tools. Of the dozen planes I use regularly, all but 2 are vintage project planes that I fettled. I'm done restoring planes lol.

So the 044 that I was thinking of purchasing was to come from a well-known and very reputable dealer, and while the price is a bit high I knew that I could buy with confidence that the only work it would need would be honing of the cutters.

I've not heard anyone say anything bad about the Veritas, and for the relatively small difference in price I am leaning towards buying new. If the vintage Record were 100 bucks, it would be a done deal.

Patrick, I was briefly toying with the idea of picking up a rosewood & boxwood screw arm plough, I just can't justify spending the 400-ish bucks that it takes to get a nice clean one with intact threads. Well, I can totally justify it. My wife might kill me though lol

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Brian

There are a number of possibilities when it comes to a simple grooving plane: Record #044, Record/Rapier #043, Stanley #50, Stanley #45 (that is more than simple grooving), and Veritas Small Plow (now that the "Large" is called the Combo, perhaps the "Small" should just be called the "Plow" .. or better still, "plough"! :) )

I did write a comparison of the #044, #043 and Small Plow 10 years ago .... http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Veritas%20Small%20Plow%20Plane.html

Jim made a valid point when he noted that the #044 you were looking at was close to a new Small Plow in cost. Grooving is a pretty simple operation, and all these planes can do this pretty well. What sets the Veritas apart is that it can do more (if you need) and that it is the more comfortable to use and easiest to set up (these things mean more to me).

If cost was a factor (and you do not intend building a plane), I'd look at the Stanley #50 or Record #044. I exclude the #043 as I think it is to small for larger work, and I exclude the Stanley #45 as it is a lot less simple to set up than the others here. If cost is less a factor, the Veritas is the one to get.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

So the 044 that I was thinking of purchasing was to come from a well-known and very reputable dealer, and while the price is a bit high I knew that I could buy with confidence that the only work it would need would be honing of the cutters.

Sometimes knowing all the parts are present and the dealer can be trusted is worth a little extra when purchasing a tool.

My #50 had a lot of missing parts. It always had enough for the basic work. Some others have been acquired, rigged or found in my parts box.

jtk

[Richard Verwoest]

Who knows, maybe some will elect to part ways with their VSPP, once they get their combo plane in hand. May save a few bucks yet with a used one....

[Simon MacGowen]

Who knows, maybe some will elect to part ways with their VSPP, once they get their combo plane in hand. May save a few bucks yet with a used one....

If getting a second hand Veritas plow, make sure it is a second generation version or the first generation version modified for using the bead cutters. Otherwise, expect to spend a charge for modification if the bead cutters are used.

Simon

[Matt Lau]

thankfully, Lee valley has a very reasonably priced service to upgrade those planes.

I bought my first generation plow 2 months before the upgrade was announced!!

[Patrick Chase]

thankfully, Lee valley has a very reasonably priced service to upgrade those planes.

I bought my first generation plow 2 months before the upgrade was announced!!

They upgraded yours for free right? I seem to recall that they made such an accommodation for very recent buyers...

[john zulu]

They upgraded yours for free right? I seem to recall that they made such an accommodation for very recent buyers...
Yeah it is. For ppl like me in Malaysia we are sent the body of the new plane. No need to play the merry go round trip. Really great service from Rob Lee and team.