New Workshop - Need lots of good advice

[Alan Lightstone]

We've just purchased a new home, and one that presents a great opportunity to design a workshop with a relatively clean slate in a great space.

The home we are purchasing is near the beach, so is built up to withstand hurricanes. In fact, it's built to withstand Cat 5 hurricanes, and is easily the strongest home construction I have ever seen. This is what presents me my opportunity for a great workshop.

I will have a ground floor space of approximately 45' L x 17-21' W. The really interesting part is the 17' high ceilings.

I would like to put in a storage area over the workshop, to cut down on the massive amount of air volume I will have to cool in Florida (I'll be installing a number of split AC registers), as well as for lumbar storage, jig storage, etc...

My first question is how high should I leave the workshop ceiling under the storage area? Is 10.5 feet sufficient? (I'm thinking that will give me 6' of headroom in the storage area after the floor/ceiling is built.)

Also, I'm looking to install an H-hoist on two added steel I-beams, as I'll have masonry walls/ceiling/pillars that it can be attached to. How much extra clearance would I have to allow for that?

Anyway, thanks in advance. I'm sure I'll be posting lots of questions (and a number of pictures) over the next year, so hopefully this will be interesting for more than just me.

[Mark Bolton]

So will you shop be in the wipe out zone if there ever is a high water/flooding situation? Maybe I have it wrong but Im envisioning a house sitting 17' off the ground and you are building a shop in the space below?

[Alan Lightstone]

Yes, indeed the shop will be in the "wipe out zone". That would suck, but it is what it is. Probably only an issue with storm surge greater than 10'. The hoist will give me the ability to lift the machinery off the ground and support it underneath. Might work, might not.

Really not any different than my present workshop that is in my garage, also in a flood zone.

[Frederick Skelly]

I like your idea for "upstairs" storage. Pull down staircase or permanent?

Seems like a 10 ft ceiling is more than high enough, unless you are thinking of ceiling fans. (I drool over those Big Ass Fans - they move a lot of air and could be an alternative to AC where I live.)

A ceiling hoist would be handy from time to time. But I wouldn't personally get enough out of it to make it worthwhile.

Other ideas...
* Have you considered installing a finishing room? Would let you work on something else while your finish is drying. Would also let you use a spray gun without crapping up the whole shop.
* Are you considering dust collection and/or compressed air? Either one would benefit from a separate sound proofed closet/room.
* Have you considered a sink and commode? I'm constantly carrying stuff into the kitchen to clean and really wish I had at least cold running water. If you dont have sewer, you could buy/rig a sink with a tank underneath that you empty when it fills.

Good luck!
Fred
.

[Brian Lefort]

my advice is to not put your shop in the flood zone.

[Frederick Skelly]

my advice is to not put your shop in the flood zone.

Dude lives in Tampa, not Billings, guys. He doesn't have a lot of options.

[Alan Lightstone]

Dude lives in Tampa, not Billings, guys. He doesn't have a lot of options.

True, dat.

[Alan Lightstone]

I like your idea for "upstairs" storage. Pull down staircase or permanent?

Seems like a 10 ft ceiling is more than high enough, unless you are thinking of ceiling fans. (I drool over those Big Ass Fans - they move a lot of air and could be an alternative to AC where I live.)

A ceiling hoist would be handy from time to time. But I wouldn't personally get enough out of it to make it worthwhile.

Other ideas...
* Have you considered installing a finishing room? Would let you work on something else while your finish is drying. Would also let you use a spray gun without crapping up the whole shop.
* Are you considering dust collection and/or compressed air? Either one would benefit from a separate sound proofed closet/room.
* Have you considered a sink and commode? I'm constantly carrying stuff into the kitchen to clean and really wish I had at least cold running water. If you dont have sewer, you could buy/rig a sink with a tank underneath that you empty when it fills.

Good luck!
Fred
.
I much prefer A/C to ceiling fans, although those Big Ass Fans are impressive.

I am definitely planning on a finishing room. I spray lacquer a lot (I already built a nice portable spray booth with an explosion proof fan that I use in my present workshop. I'll modify things to be permanently installed in a finishing room.)

I have a 5HP Oneida cyclone. I definitely want to make a small "soundproofed" closet for that and for my air compressor (which actually bothers me more. Something about its noise is more obnoxious to me.)

There is plumbing roughed out, so I definitely can have a utility sink quite easily. A bathroom won't be as easy, but I'd like one.

I installed two fixed hoists in my present workshop. I use them a lot (I have a bad neck and back, and it's getting worse every day). I definitely want an H-hoist. I've also thought of building a lumber rack which can be lowered from an opening in the ceiling to be accessed and then raised so the floor of it becomes part of the ceiling. This may be needlessly complex, but it would be very cool and very space efficient.

[Alan Lightstone]

What is the optimal height, in everyone's opinion? My present ceiling is 8'11", and it's definitely too low.

[Jim Becker]

I have 8' now. In my "ideal shop", it would be more like 10' if it were a flat ceiling.

[Bryan Lisowski]

If I was building my dream shop, I would do 10 feet at a minimum.

[Bill Dufour]

What is an "H hoist'. do you mean a bridge crane? A bridge crane is going to need at least two-three feet above the hook. Have you considered a Jib crane in one corner? that 21' will mean a very deep bridge beam. probably well over 12-16" alone for 2 ton.
Look on ebay and you can buy a old bridge with endtrucks for less then materiel cost. Best to buy a complete setup and build the shop around the footprint.
Bill D.

oldcarguy had a nice series about his but it was on photobucket

http://www.harringtonhoists.com/tech_support/edocs/EDOC%200367%20rev02.pdf


(http://www.harringtonhoists.com/tech_support/edocs/EDOC%200367%20rev02.pdf)

[Bill Dufour]

Supply power from the top with a main breaker you can throw from upstairs to cut power to everything down below. Maybe a totally separate circuit, battery?, to a sump pump you can leave on if the basement may flood?
Bill

[Bill Jobe]

About the compressor...among the top 10 annoying sounds to me.

Have you thought about an addition level with the living space?
Having never lived near a beach, the idea of a shop full of expensive machinery at risk of high water would leave me feeling very vulnerable.

Perhaps if you posted pics of the home, you just might get more and better ideas.

[Jerome Sidley]

instead of upstairs storage how about downstairs and have your machines higher? you could run the dust collection duct under also

[Alan Lightstone]

The circuit breaker boxes are already in the workshop area, but probably 5' in the air. The present air handlers are all built way up in the air by code (poor AC guys).

I'm going for solar power with battery backup, so I'm not going for a generator (although, I already have one on my present house.)

For those who don't live in hurricane country, sump pumps aren't helpful here. You either get no water in, or it's the big one and waves are crashing into / through your house. Not much middle ground. And if the storm goes a little south of us, Tampa Bay is a disaster, and I'm intact. A little North of us, it's the opposite. Location, location, location (of any storms that it). I don't want to jinx myself, but fortunately Tampa has been spared the big one over the last 100 years.

And if we do get hit, flood insurance will pay for everything in the workshop, and won't cover the house anyway. That would be the homeowner's insurance.

[Alan Lightstone]

instead of upstairs storage how about downstairs and have your machines higher? you could run the dust collection duct under also

I've thought a lot about that. It would be doable, but would involve carrying lumber and machines up stairs, which I'm not thrilled at.

It also would eliminate the sound buffer of a storage floor to the main house.

Plus, I'm not sure what it takes to make a floor to withstand the beating of a storm surge. Probably need to be cement, and that means no access in it.

[Alan Lightstone]

What is an "H hoist'. do you mean a bridge crane? A bridge crane is going to need at least two-three feet above the hook. Have you considered a Jib crane in one corner? that 21' will mean a very deep bridge beam. probably well over 12-16" alone for 2 ton.
Look on ebay and you can buy a old bridge with endtrucks for less then materiel cost. Best to buy a complete setup and build the shop around the footprint.
Bill D.

oldcarguy had a nice series about his but it was on photobucket

http://www.harringtonhoists.com/tech_support/edocs/EDOC%200367%20rev02.pdf


(http://www.harringtonhoists.com/tech_support/edocs/EDOC%200367%20rev02.pdf)
An H-hoist or x-y hoist (the term is new to me, but that's what I see it called. Please someone correct me if I have the wrong term.) is a hoist that rides between two long horizontal beams. That way it can move over the entirety of the workshop area. Lighter duty ones are often used to lift patients in and out of beds.

Presently I use two hoists, one over my table saw that I use to raise/lower my large/heavy crosscut jig, and another I use to lift machinery onto mobile bases, etc... Having a single one would be so much easier and versatile (and I'm sure WAY more expensive than the Harbor Freight ones I'm using now).

Someone had one either on here, or another site that he actually could go out on a beam on his barn workshop and lift things out of the bed of a pickup truck into his workshop.

Here's a diagram of what a H-Hoist looks like:
366509

[Jim Andrew]

I'm thinking, why not build a floor system up so you would have 9' ceilings in the upper level of the shop? Or would 7 or 8' not make enough difference when you get a big storm?

[Alan Lightstone]

We're already at 8' elevation. That means the main house is at 25' elevation. To reach the living area would take the storm surge from a massive Cat 5 storm, with bad timing for high tide and bad location forcing the storm surge towards the house.. Possible, but a total worst case scenario.

And I don't think it would be possible to raise the workshop floor in a way that would survive that surge. So I'm not trying to do the barely possible - which would still be destroyed in a 100 year storm. My present house has been through 5 hurricanes - though no direct hits. It has survived intact through hurricane strength winds, but not serious storm surge. I'm not being cavalier about the storms. I truly understand what it is to live through them. And no, I'm not one of those idiots that sticks around to have a hurricane party. We leave in a safe direction to a safe location.

I am going to utilize the 17 foot height for two spaces - a storage space, and a workshop space. And the difficulty of moving heavy machinery and lumber to the upper space will probably mean that the upper level will be storage, and the lower level will be the workshop.

[Bill Dufour]

That is what has been called a bridge crane for years and years. the diagram even labels the bridge beam portion! the end trucks can be overrunning or underhung. the bridge can be single or double beam and the hoist trolley can be top running or underslung. All the options that add more height under the hook cost more. And you can run more then one bridge on the same rails.
A proper one is not really attached to the building structure since it needs to be accurately leveled and maybe re-levled if the foundation moves.
Bill D.

http://www.spanco.com/products/workstation-bridge-cranes?_vsrefdom=googleppc&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIutfV6IHq1QIVkLfACh2x3wnVEAAYASAA EgJu__D_BwE

[Alan Lightstone]

Thanks, Bill. I was wondering why they've been difficult to search for with google. Haven't seen any versions supported on vertical columns like the one you showed.

I'll have the architect look at these and determine what they think is the best mounting approach. I'd hate to think that the foundation can move, tied into 60 vertical piles, but I guess anything is possible.

[Alan Lightstone]

I'm thinking more about putting in a floor 1 foot or so above the cement floor to place the dust collection ducts. Are you forced to have all your runs at roughly 90 degree angles under the floor to allow for floor joists? Do you allow for access panels for the floor to get at ducts?

If using overhead runs for the ducts instead, how does that work in real life with ducts hanging downwards to equipment? Do you bump into them, do they get in the way of carrying things?

[John K Jordan]

...I have a 5HP Oneida cyclone. I definitely want to make a small "soundproofed" closet for that and for my air compressor (which actually bothers me more. Something about its noise is more obnoxious to me.)


I built such a closet for my 5-hp ClearVue cyclone - it's amazing, from painfully loud to being able to hear a whisper outside the closet. Mine is 4'x8' to accommodate both the cyclone and the big air compressor. I used staggered stud walls with insulation woven between, 1/2" ply inside and out. I built a sound-baffled plywood duct to return the filtered air to the shop. Double steel doors open into another room in the shop away from the wood stuff.

My ceilings are 9' which is the absolute minimum, in my opinion. 10' or 10.5' would be a lot better. Be sure to think about hanging lights and such.

When I grew up along the Monongahela river in PA flooding was a springtime event from the snow melt. The few times the water got high enough to get to the first floor of the house we carried the furniture and all to the upper floors. My dad pulled out the big wooded drawers in the kitchen and put the stove, fridge, etc up a bit just in case. The highest the water ever got was about 12" from the basement floor joists. Maybe have some steel stands ready and a way to lift machines a few feet? And a strong concrete surge wall outside!

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

I'm thinking more about putting in a floor 1 foot or so above the cement floor to place the dust collection ducts. Are you forced to have all your runs at roughly 90 degree angles under the floor to allow for floor joists? Do you allow for access panels for the floor to get at ducts?

If using overhead runs for the ducts instead, how does that work in real life with ducts hanging downwards to equipment? Do you bump into them, do they get in the way of carrying things?

Underfloor can be a very nice way of running utilities and DC in a shop if you have the ability to do so. In your case, if you put joists directly on the slab, it will be more difficult to run DC at other than with the joists or perpendicular to them, although you can certainly engineer diagonal troughs with covers as you design the framing. And that makes for easy access if you have a clog, etc. Having the joists raised up off the slab would also allow more efficient diagonal runs, but you'd want the floor screwed down so that you can open things up if there's an issue.

[Alan Lightstone]

I've been told that electricity is a no-go under the floor, but the ducting can be done.

Diagonal trusses would clearly make for a better DC layout, but might be more trouble than it's worth. I'm just a one man operation, so the 5HP Oneida is overkill. I can probably tolerate a little inefficiency in its design - up to a point.

What kind of material should I have used for the floor joists, so that they aren't ruined if they get wet (I sure hope not)?

[Jim Becker]

You need to use PT since the joists will presumably be in contact with the slab.

BTW, to clarify what I was speaking about, if you plan your duct routing before you frame the floor, you can literally build in troughs for your DC duct work at angles appropriate for the job. It requires a little more material, but sure does make it easy to fix any issues later since you only have to remove the foot or so wide piece of deck that's covering the trough.

[Alan Lightstone]

How big do you make the floor pieces that are screwed onto the joists. You don't use full size plywood pieces screwed to the joists do you?

[Jim Becker]

You use full size sheets except over the troughs...so the majority of the floor is done "normally". You're just making things easy by having removable panels just over the duct work. Some folks actually use steel for that so they don't have to worry as much about supporting the joint between pieces, but 3/4" underlayment plywood (not OSB) is pretty strong stuff..

[Alan Lightstone]

Next question, and I didn't want to hijack the other poster's thread asking about insulating his garage.

Should I put up drywall, or some other panels on the cinder block walls, or should I leave them as it? My present garage shop just has the cinder block walls, but significant insulation in the ceiling.

I know insulation is relatively cheap, and much easier to install at this point, but does it really save money in keeping in the cool air vs a cinderblock wall? Keeping in the heat in winter isn't much of a concern here, it's just keeping the space cool with split AC units.

Are there better materials to use for the walls instead of sheetrock for a shop? In any case, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get my money out of my two hammer drills. I wonder if there is a Hilti in my future. Does it ultimately save money not having to use metal conduit and just using Romex inside of walls to outlet boxes?

[Alan Lightstone]

You use full size sheets except over the troughs...so the majority of the floor is done "normally". You're just making things easy by having removable panels just over the duct work. Some folks actually use steel for that so they don't have to worry as much about supporting the joint between pieces, but 3/4" underlayment plywood (not OSB) is pretty strong stuff..

Is any vapor barrier necessary? I'm assuming yes.

Would pouring an epoxy floor coating over the cement provide a better vapor barrier (I would think yes), albeit at a greater cost?

[Jim Becker]

While block walls "generally" do a pretty good job relative to "insulation", adding a moisture barrier and a few inches of additional insulation can make for a much more comfortable space...humidity is what it is. It's made a noticeable difference in my own shop.

To your question around wall material, to a certain height, many woodworkers find it convenient to use a wall material that is easy to fasten cabinetry and other things securely. Drywall isn't the best for that purpose for obvious reasons. So if you fur out the walls (my shop has block walls and I used "half studs" to provide space for insulation as well as a way to security fasten wall material) you can cover the lower half with plywood or OSB or even solid wood if you want it to look finished and do drywall above that. Alternatively, drywall is "cheap" if you don't mind the finishing work and you can put up a slat system that fastens to your furring to support storage.

[Bill Dufour]

If you do use plywood use exterior grade so it can be dried out. OSB or similar will get wet and delaminate and have to be replaced after a flood. Of course mold will grow inside the wall if it floods so you will probably have to pull it off anyway.
Being in Florida the advice about vapor barriers may be backwards since the cold side is inside for you.
Bill

[Bill Dufour]

I'll have the architect look at these and determine what they think is the best mounting approach. I'd hate to think that the foundation can move, tied into 60 vertical piles, but I guess anything is possible.[/QUOTE]

I think the issue with leveling is that a slight slope side to side will cause the trolley to run to the low spot. This will be almost impossible to stop when it is unloaded. I think any long rail slope is not such a big issue.
The bridgebeam can be rated for say 1/2 ton which should be plenty for most lifts and if needed you could jack it up with a 4x4 near the load points for a little extra safety margin. For home use I would not recommend powered endtrucks or a powered trolley. Too expensive, too heavy, too big.
Bill

Check out the link below for a good discussion but remember they are talking machines and raw stock that weigh at least 2 or 3 times wood working stuff.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/material-handling-and-rigging/bridge-crane-gantry-crane-home-shop-255478/

[Bill Dufour]

Bridgecranes: just some samller ones from the bay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brehob-Single-Girder-Underhung-Chain-fall-Hoist-Bridge-Crane-28-Span-1-Ton-Cap-/350688421924?hash=item51a6a8a824:g:Z-gAAOSwuwRYLhNY

This one is half bridge/half gantry

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-ton-bridge-crane-Robbins-and-meyers-/152664063876?hash=item238b7cbf84:g:ABcAAOSw5AFZZl8 h

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GORBEL-500-LB-BRIDGE-CRANE-SYSTEM-162-BRIDGE-23-RUNWAY-w-HANGERS-BUDGIT-HOIST-/182730355091?hash=item2a8b93f193:g:wu8AAOSwM4xXbBG U

[Bill Dufour]

I like having a skylight that can open for ventilation. Wish I had one in the shop.
Bill

[Alan Lightstone]

Thanks Bill, useful info.

I know the powered end truck would be tempting, but I feared it would be dramatically more expensive.

Didn't think about the hoist running to the low spot. We will have to ensure that it's perfectly level (not necessarily easy, but hey someone is going to have to do their job.)

If it floods, all the affected wallboard (whether it be OSB or exterior plywood) will have to be removed, so are their other inherant advantages of exterior plywood over OSB, or vice versa?).

Skylight would be wonderful, but with the house above, that would make for a nasty hole to below :).

Interesting question about where to put the vapor barrier. Does it go under the joists (protecting the floor from the moisture in the cement) or over them (dealing with the absurdly high humidity in Florida)?

[Richard Gonzalez]

We've just purchased a new home, and one that presents a great opportunity to design a workshop with a relatively clean slate in a great space.

The home we are purchasing is near the beach, so is built up to withstand hurricanes. In fact, it's built to withstand Cat 5 hurricanes, and is easily the strongest home construction I have ever seen. This is what presents me my opportunity for a great workshop.


I'm very sorry that it looks like you will be getting an early test. Please keep us informed about how you get through the next week. Our thoughts are with you and all in Irma's path.

[Alan Lightstone]

Thank you so much for your concerns. Looking good news and bad news scenario with the present storm track. We'll likely get Cat-2 winds, but it should arrive at low tide, and we'll be on the "good" side of the storm for storm surge. Miami, Ft Lauderdale, and West Palm Beach may not do so well.

Of course, if it keeps moving west, conditions here may change rapidly.

The worst case scenario for us would be if it crosses into the Gulf of Mexico. That could be a horror show, so everyone around here is praying it stays to the east.

Many, many people have evacuated to Orlando - right into the path of the storm. They may have a very rough night on Sunday.

[Alan Lightstone]

And it keeps moving west.

I may get to see how accurate my Elevation Certificate is. Sigh...

Now expecting Cat 2-3 winds, and storm surge of hopefully only 3-6 feet. Margin of error is going down by the minute.

I spent the last two days installing the hurricane shutters to my present home. Pretty exhausting work.

[Alan Lightstone]

OK. Home and family survived the hurricane intact. Thankfully, it went due North after landfall, and largely spared us except for lots of wind. Amazingly, never lost power, even though about half of the state did. Naples / Marco Island was crushed. Hope everyone is okay there. Storm surge was only 1-3 feet here, as opposed to the 8-10 predicted, so the ground floor where the workshop will be located should be just fine.

So, back to thinking about building the workshop, and renovating the new house. Thank you all for your concern.

[John K Jordan]

OK. Home and family survived the hurricane intact. Thankfully, it went due North after landfall, and largely spared us except for lots of wind. Amazingly, never lost power, even though about half of the state did. Naples / Marco Island was crushed. Hope everyone is okay there. Storm surge was only 1-3 feet here, as opposed to the 8-10 predicted, so the ground floor where the workshop will be located should be just fine.

So, back to thinking about building the workshop, and renovating the new house. Thank you all for your concern.

Excellent news! If building in your location I might consider building on a concrete floor raised a few feet. (Hey, built-in loading dock!) Who knows what next year will bring.

JKJ

[Alan Lightstone]

Excellent news! If building in your location I might consider building on a concrete floor raised a few feet. (Hey, built-in loading dock!) Who knows what next year will bring.

JKJ

Huge storm surge would probably overwhelm that. I don't think I can plan for the truly catastrophic storm as far as the ground floor workshop is concerned. I plan on elevating the floor about 18 inches on pressure treated wood joists, and can lift the machines onto cinder blocks with the overhead bridge crane. Other than that, that's what flood insurance will be for.

Fortunately the house above is the strongest built house I've ever seen. It is in a more dangerous flood zone than my present house, but I'm pretty comfortable to plan on living in a concrete reinforced home 17 feet above ground level. I'm planning on solar panels and 2 days of battery backup, so not planning on bringing the generator with me, and hoping that power failures will be a thing of the past.

[Alan Lightstone]

<p>
OK. I give. What&#39;s with the weird characters that are showing up when I try to post. How do I get rid of those?</p>

[Alan Lightstone]

<p>
OK, now on to the plans stage. I have gotten most of the equipment specified out, and some of it I already own. The problem I am having is that the workshop is long and relatively thin, and I am having a hard time coming up with a good configuration. So I am hoping that brighter heads here will come up with a better idea. The biggest problem I am having is coming up with enough room between power tools. For instance, how much room is needed on each side of a jointer? A planer? A drum sander? The jointer already has a 7-foot 3 inch bed, so presumably about 3-foot 8 in of jointer bed on each side of the blade. I do not often joint 8 foot long lumber, but sometimes I do, so do I really need 4 feet on each side. No way I had that on my present machine. The jointer height is also 1 inch higher than my table saw, so I am thinking that I will put those machines a maybe a foot closer together. What is comfortable walking distance between machines? Should I be orienting the machines along the short axis instead of the long axis? Basically tons of questions, and not enough answers. I would love lots of good advice here. I will need to have the locations sorted out before the equipment is delivered, and installed. Thanks.</p>

[John K Jordan]

OK. I give. What's with the weird characters that are showing up in the above post. How do I get rid of those?

Alan, you might try this - it has worked for others:

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Odd-looking codes for quotation and double quotations may show up in a post when SMC is accessed with "https" instead of "http" with the Enhanced editor

Look at the address field above the page in the browser.

If the address bar contains a little padlock and the SMC address starts with "https://..." then take out the "s" to change it to "http://...", hit Enter, then try the Standard Editor again. (The browser considers the "http://" redundant and won't display it in Firefox and Chrome, don't know about other browsers.)

- The combination of "https" and the Standard editor gave me the unusable grey box every time I tested it.
- The combination of "https" and the Enhanced editor gave me the painful formatting characters.
- The combination of "http" and the Enhanced editor gave me other frustrating problems such as randomly jumping cursor on backspace.

I now make sure I'm using "http://" and the Standard editor. Life is good.

BTW, to change from the Enhanced to the Standard editor
- click Settings at the top right of the screen, then General Settings in the bar at the left,
- scroll down to Miscellaneous Options/Message Editor Interface and choose Standard,
- click on Save Changes

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JKJ

[Jim Becker]

Alan, will the SCMS in that position be able to cut down long lumber?

[Alan Lightstone]

Jim:

Yes, the wall is a little more than 14 feet wide there. Might have some issues with 8 foot lumber if I need small pieces cut off the ends, but then I could use the table saw for that. I'm hoping that's enough room.

Would it make more sense to not center it on that wall so that one side of it has >8 foot capacity, and the other side less?

[Alan Lightstone]

Alan, you might try this - it has worked for others:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Odd-looking codes for quotation and double quotations may show up in a post when SMC is accessed with "https" instead of "http" with the Enhanced editor

Look at the address field above the page in the browser.

If the address bar contains a little padlock and the SMC address starts with "https://..." then take out the "s" to change it to "http://...", hit Enter, then try the Standard Editor again. (The browser considers the "http://" redundant and won't display it in Firefox and Chrome, don't know about other browsers.)

- The combination of "https" and the Standard editor gave me the unusable grey box every time I tested it.
- The combination of "https" and the Enhanced editor gave me the painful formatting characters.
- The combination of "http" and the Enhanced editor gave me other frustrating problems such as randomly jumping cursor on backspace.

I now make sure I'm using "http://" and the Standard editor. Life is good.

BTW, to change from the Enhanced to the Standard editor
- click Settings at the top right of the screen, then General Settings in the bar at the left,
- scroll down to Miscellaneous Options/Message Editor Interface and choose Standard,
- click on Save Changes

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JKJ

Thanks, John. Hopefully that will do the trick (seems to have).

[Jim Becker]

Jim:

Yes, the wall is a little more than 14 feet wide there. Might have some issues with 8 foot lumber if I need small pieces cut off the ends, but then I could use the table saw for that. I'm hoping that's enough room.

Would it make more sense to not center it on that wall so that one side of it has >8 foot capacity, and the other side less?

That's not a bad thought because cross-cutting really long things on a North American style table saw isn't something I'd prefer to do. (easier on a Euro slider with an outrigger, of course) Offsetting the SCMS would give you a little more flexibility for certain cuts, since it's a defined space, but no position is perfect if you think about it. There are times I need to open my shop door for a (rare) cut on the miter saw...and that's on a 22 foot wide dimension of the shop with the saw approximately centered. The door is fortunately positioned in line with the miter station. There will ALWAYS be "that one cut" that makes you scratch your head. LOL

[Mark Blatter]

Back to your question on ceiling heights. How long is the lumber you use? I typically use 10' or 11' lengths and am always hitting my ceiling which is about 9.5' tall. My preference, and what I am putting in my shop I am building, is for just over 12'. That will provide room to move 12' tall boards when needed. Don't forget about light fixtures. They will hang down another 3-5 inches, depending on what you put use. If you only use 8' long boards, then a 10' ceiling should work, but still at some point you will still wish it was higher.

[Jim Dwight]

My shop is long and narrow, 24x14. I like having my crosscut equipment along the long side - with hardwood on the wall above it. Even with roughly 12 foot on each side, I run out of room sometimes. I am putting crown molding up at the moment, for instance, and am using my older 10 inch CMS I can easily move around due to the 16 foot molding. I have a lot of drawers, about 12 foot run, but also put tools along this long wall but the tops are at the same height as the bench the saws are on. The tools are also on wheels so they can move out of the way. My shop layout has the table saw and a work table (3x6) in the middle and the other tools around the edges. I have done this in two successive shops and I like the arrangement. I do not have to move tools for the typical rips and crosscuts but do to use the planner, jointer, router table (on more than a tiny piece) but since they are on wheels moving them is not a huge deal.

[Ryan Higgins-Winter Haven]

True, dat.
Yeah... I don't think they realize that for the most part, the "flood zone" is everything south of I-10. Although I've often fantasized of a workshop/treehouse... if for nothing else, the irony of chopping wood IN a tree.

[Alan Lightstone]

OK, I'll post updated plans a little later. I'm still hoping for someone to let me know that my space between machines is adequate. I'll post some measurements with the plans later.

I've reconfigured the entrance which has given me some additional width around the drum sander. I originally chose the Jet 22-44 Pro to get the 3HP motor, plus I'll need it to be moveable. Now I think I can put in something a little larger, and stationary.

What do people think of the Woodmaster 3875, or 3875-X2 drum sanders? I won't have the room for a true wide belt sander, as much as I'd love one. I think the 50" width model would be pushing the space I have for it, though it would be tempting.

Is the Woodmaster a step up from the Jet 3HP version? I like the DRO in the Jet (I love the one I installed in my present Jet 16/32, but I guess I could install one in the Woodmaster too, though one more thing to have to do.

[John K Jordan]

OK, I'll post updated plans a little later. I'm still hoping for someone to let me know that my space between machines is adequate. I'll post some measurements with the plans later.
...

Alan, I can tell you what I did to determine the space between machines. First of all, I made a scale layout from a large piece of paper with paper footprint cutouts for each machine, workbench, etc. Then I positioned them all for my first cut. To determine the desired and minimum space between machines (to give enough room for walking and carrying things) I stacked up some big cardboard boxes to represent a couple of machines and walked and moved things between them to see what felt comfortable. I cut paper circles for both the desired and minimum and "walked" the circles through my shop layout, adjusting things as needed.

I also made cutouts for infeed and outfeed space so I wouldn't have any unpleasant surprises. I made many floor plan variations before locking in a design. During the process I even decided to adjust some walls and door positions. (I did this planning after I decided on the building size but before I started building.) It was good to do this before planning the wiring and lighting as well.

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To me, it was far easier and quicker to move pieces of paper around than to do this on my computers even though I had high-end CAD and modeling software and the expertise to use it efficiently.

JKJ

[Bill Dufour]

I believe Grizzly has some free software that plans your shop layout around their tools and the space needs. Your similar size tools should need similar spaces.
Bill D

on edit:
I have no idea if this is any good or not. but hey its free. So be thankful.

http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner

[Alan Lightstone]

OK, been playing around with designs. I have two tentative possibilities. I'd love comments as to which people think is better.

The first design has a significant amount of room around the jointer, planer, and table saw. The drum sander will have to be on wheels and move forward for long boards. This will necessitate a smaller model (Jet 22-44 Pro).

The second design puts the jointer and planer back to back with the drum sander on a longer wall. Potentially I could buy a larger drum sander like the Woodmaster 3875. I could also put a small, moveable panel saw on the wall by the door. But the outfeed might be too tight by the planer, and the walking room between tools is much tighter.

What do you all think?


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OK, I've added some dimensions to the drawings above.

[John K Jordan]

OK, been playing around with designs....
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If you plan to work on long boards maybe the table saw could be moved slightly (up and left) to line up with the double door when needed. I don't see dimensions to know what space is allowed. Also, perhaps it is possible to make use of space out a window for occasional long stock on some machine.

I've seen where some people raise some machines a few inches so in/out feed can go over other tools, for example to let the jointer/planer feeds go over the tablesaw and bench in the second picture.

The SCMS space looks tight. Any chance it could be positioned on the other end by the closet so long boards could extend out the door towards the steps? Most if the time I use mine to cut towards the end of long boards, not in the middle. If I need to cut in the middle I use a hand-held saw then trim the ends with the SCMS.

You might draw rectangles to represent both the longest and typical boards and stock you plan to work and place them in the drawing. Might need to measure and indicate the position of the cutters on each machine.

JKJ

[Alan Lightstone]

OK, I've added dimensions to the drawings above. Hopefully that will makes things easier to look at.

Thanks again.

[Alan Lightstone]

I believe Grizzly has some free software that plans your shop layout around their tools and the space needs. Your similar size tools should need similar spaces.
Bill D

on edit:
I have no idea if this is any good or not. but hey its free. So be thankful.

http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner

Bill:

I played with it, even though I hate activating java. The problem is the unusual dimensions of the workshop. The equipment looks nice, but I don't think it will work for me. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

[Jim Becker]

Alan, the one thing that I've clearly learned over the past few years and recently put into action is the concept of "open space" is a good thing as it brings flexibility to the shop. I don't really see much of that in your diagrams. I've purposely created a larger open space in my shop that I can use for assembly, finishing and material support while milling and at whatever heights are appropriate for the particular function. The other thing is work flow. TS, J and P are all very closely related so having them nearby each other so you can move between them efficiently with less "material relocation" is a good thing. That's a little easier in my shop because I use a J/P combo, but certainly doable with discrete machines, too. You have a relatively large shop space so perhaps you can keep the "machining" in one area and the "building" and hand work in another through grouping. Yes, there are some tools that will need to live in other areas, but in general, that kind of configuration can be advantageous.

[Alan Lightstone]

Jim:

Agreed. There isn't much open space. For better or worse, the industrial grade equipment I have ordered all have large footprints. The good news is that I assume they will perform extremely well. The bad news is the large footprints and their need to remain relatively or absolutely stationary (The Felder reps really weren't warm and fuzzy about me moving their machines around the shop).

Additionally, I do need to leave some room to be able to bring heavy large things into the shop and place them under the bridge crane / hoist to be repositioned, or placed overhead in storage areas. I've set aside the area outside the finishing room for that area. I can keep that area flexible for assembly, and if I choose the smaller drum sander I can roll that out of the way. But the other large equipment, once placed in their final positions, will have to stay put.

[Dave Diaman]

Alan, I don’t know how much thought you have put into soundproofing your new shop. My shop in under the main section of my house. I’m in my shop full time and work some really crazy hours so I built my shop like a theater room with soundproofing all around. If you turn everything else in the house off you can just barely hear my dust collector but that is it. It wasn’t that expensive to do and fairly simple as long as it is done during the initial set up phase.

[Alan Lightstone]

Alan, I don’t know how much thought you have put into soundproofing your new shop. My shop in under the main section of my house. I’m in my shop full time and work some really crazy hours so I built my shop like a theater room with soundproofing all around. If you turn everything else in the house off you can just barely hear my dust collector but that is it. It wasn’t that expensive to do and fairly simple as long as it is done during the initial set up phase.
Dave:

I'm also very cognizant about both transmitting noise upstairs to the house, as well as bothering my neighbors. The explosion proof fan for the finishing room is loud, so that will be addressed outside the house.

The cyclone and air compressor are also very loud. I'm going to use a sound attenuating air intake on the cyclone room, and soundproofing it best I can. It's a small room, which may make that challenging, but it's important to me.

The storage area on the top 5 feet of the workshop should help a lot with that. There will be lots of overhead cabinetry, which should attenuate the sound significantly. Having 17 foot tall ceilings, with a metal top under a masonry floor really helps here.

[Bill Dufour]

I have read that a lot of air compressor noise is actually the air intake. People add motorcycle mufflers to the intake to help quiet things down. I added a old oil bath air filter to mine. I think it removed the high pitch whistle sound. I figure the oil can't hurt the valves and rings.

[Dave Diaman]

What you will want to do is use Safe and Sound rock wool insulation between the shop and house. Then add resilient channel with 5/8” drywall attached to that. Those three things are the most cost effective ways to soundproof. Along with those things make sure you seal any air gaps that sound could travel through. For the compressor/dust collector room the same thing with 5/8 drywall on both sides will do the trick along with a baffle for your air return. Oddly enough my house was built with the basement as a shop so I have compressed air and 6” ventilation lines built into the foundation which has been a huge help for noise and ventilation. My air compressor sits I’m my garage and branches out through the foundation to the house, Shop and greenhouse. One other thing that made a big difference is I have something of a sound lock between my house and shop. I have two 1 3/4” solid core doors with gaskets around them. One is at the bottom of the stairs and the other at the top. This creates something of a dust barrier too. The door that exits to my spray booth, wood storage and outside are just standard steel doors. Not much sound so goes out that way. We have a fairly large lot for our area so none of the houses around can hear anything when I’m working unless I open all the windows and doors. I also have my shop heating and cooling system completely isolated from my house. This allows me to control the humidity as well as it keeps any fumes from finishes and dust out of the house.

[Alan Lightstone]

What you will want to do is use Safe and Sound rock wool insulation between the shop and house. Then add resilient channel with 5/8” drywall attached to that. Those three things are the most cost effective ways to soundproof. Along with those things make sure you seal any air gaps that sound could travel through. For the compressor/dust collector room the same thing with 5/8 drywall on both sides will do the trick along with a baffle for your air return. Oddly enough my house was built with the basement as a shop so I have compressed air and 6” ventilation lines built into the foundation which has been a huge help for noise and ventilation. My air compressor sits I’m my garage and branches out through the foundation to the house, Shop and greenhouse. One other thing that made a big difference is I have something of a sound lock between my house and shop. I have two 1 3/4” solid core doors with gaskets around them. One is at the bottom of the stairs and the other at the top. This creates something of a dust barrier too. The door that exits to my spray booth, wood storage and outside are just standard steel doors. Not much sound so goes out that way. We have a fairly large lot for our area so none of the houses around can hear anything when I’m working unless I open all the windows and doors. I also have my shop heating and cooling system completely isolated from my house. This allows me to control the humidity as well as it keeps any fumes from finishes and dust out of the house.

Dave:

Thanks, I'll look into that. There are limited walls to be constructed. Most are pre-existing cinderblock walls. Perhaps some insulation can be poured into them. The Safe and Sound Roxul can be put in the wall being constructed between the shop and garage. Thanks for that information.

Sound through the stairwells should be minimal at best. There are two separate landings, so sound would have to bounce around like crazy, after first going through two walls, and two doors. Should be a non-issue.

What sound can transmit through the metal clad cinder block ceiling will be interesting to find out. Time will tell. I'll get every bit of sound insulation I can in the cyclone room. I'll get the most bang for the buck there. Not sure what I'll do about the air compressor yet.

[Alan Lightstone]

Ok, playing with scissors, paper, xerox machines, scanners, etc...

Here's a total of four layouts I've come up with. Please let me know which one you all like, and why.

Thanks.

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[Dave Diaman]

Alan, the insulation, resilient channel and 5/8 drywall are on my ceiling. The walls are block and under ground so that isn’t an issue. I will say that two sheets of 3/4” plywood and 3/4” of oak flooring might as well have been paper. Before I put in the soundproofing you could hear everything in the main area of the house as if it was in the room with you. The sound transmitted right through the floor. Once you start making noise your problem areas will show up fast.

[Alan Lightstone]

OK. it's been a while, but seriously back to work on the workshop.

The house renovation above took a year to do (want to kill the architect), but came out stunning. So good news there.

I've made a number of changes to the workshop / plans / equipment. Saved a bunch of money, and sadly gave up on a few cool things.

First of all:

1.) No bridge crane. The quotes were just insane. It would have been so cool, but just isn't going to happen. I am going to have 2 or 3 fixed overhead hoists installed, and may put a jib crane outside the door to the shop for reasons I'll explain in a minute.

2.) I'm having metal / concrete access floor tiles installed 18" off the floor (raising the floor 18" to put ducting and (wink wink, nod nod) electrical under the floor. This will enable easy routing of dust collection ducts, even the big ones to any location needed, and I won't have them overhead (which I hate, and would need to be suspended from 17 ft high ceilings. The floor is rated for more than the weight I'll need (heaviest machine is 1200 lbs).

3.) I will have a finishing room, using my explosion-proof fan to exhaust the air/finish.

4.) 3-phase power will be created using a Phase Perfect 10HP phase converter. That should supply sufficient / correct electricity to my Felder 3-phase FB710 bandsaw, Felder A941 Jointer, and Felder D953 Planer.

5.) A massive solar array was installed on the house (30kW peak). I presently have negative electric bills. My local utility were absolute *&*holes regarding them trying hard to have me not install it (they lose serious money by not being able to bill me for electricity, much less having to pay for the surplus), but I eventually got it done.

6.) I'll have a Mitsubishi mini-split AC unit / heater installed. I'll love that, considering the heat and humidity down here. They are amazingly efficient, which is nice too.

7.) No generator for now, but eventually might put in a small battery backup for emergencies. Since my bills are negative, there aren't any scenarios where that will pay for itself, but having power in a blackout would be pretty awesome.

8.) The jib crane is for lifting heavy materials up the 18" onto a platform where the double entry doors to the shop are. I will likely add a ramp also, but that 18" height to lift everything will be an issue. Certainly to get the big equipment up. I'm having issues finding a reasonable ramp that will be easy to wheel stuff up, especially with the small wheels on my pallet jack. Anyone know a good one? Something that can be stored when not used would be awesome. Right now I'm looking at Roll-a-Ramps. https://www.rollaramp.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/BROCHURE_PORTABLE_RAMP.pdf

So, flooring in a couple of weeks, then cabinetry, electrical, HVAC, and eventually a few walls and doors.

I'll post the latest drawing of the space with equipment a little later. Still a little cramped, but I'm getting some pretty great stuff in there.

Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated, as always.

[Alan Lightstone]

OK, here's the latest plans:

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I'd love any suggestions.

[John Goodin]

I have ten now but had eleven at another house. I really liked 11 but I really hate feeling remotely cramped or confined. If you are not planning on going up stairs often you might consider going 11' and 5.5.' Eleven feet would allow some nice vertical lumber storage on the lower level.

Having grown up in Florida I understand your concerns about cooling. We put this fan on our back porch and it moves almost double the amount of air of most ceiling fans -- enough to keep the flies and mosquitoes away. https://www.lampsplus.com/products/60-inch-turbina-brushed-steel-ceiling-fan__r4144.html (https://www.lampsplus.com/products/60-inch-turbina-brushed-steel-ceiling-fan__r4144.html)

[Halgeir Wold]

Any more suggestions for "mini shop" - .i.e. 100-150 sq.ft. ???

[Alan Lightstone]

OK. The large Oneida cyclone was put in a closet and raised up so that I can remove the sawdust / chips from the bin. Pretty rough task. I mounted two hooks and used two ratcheting straps to alternately raise one side, then the other to lift all 4 legs up onto 3 2x4's. Pretty scary at times, but I got it done.

The 18" raised floor goes in on Monday. That should be fascinating. The ability to run all the ducts and wire under the floor should make for a very neat installation. I can't wait.

[Jim Becker]

I remember putting mine up in the closet, Alan. Raising up that heavy thing (even in pieces) in a tight space was "no fun"!!! 'Glad you got this step completed!

[Alan Lightstone]

I remember putting mine up in the closet, Alan. Raising up that heavy thing (even in pieces) in a tight space was "no fun"!!! 'Glad you got this step completed!

Jim:

What did you do to allow makeup air into the closet. This 5HP beast will require a lot, and I'd like to soundproof the area as much as possible. I'm thinking that the 18" x 34" area where the floor meets the door will provide enough air, and deflect some of the sound under the floor, but I'm thinking it will still be quite loud.

[Jim Becker]

You want an indirect return path for air so there is no direct transmission of sound. I happened to do that using the ceiling joists to house a "folded pathway" that was adequate for the purpose as in the diagram below that I've posted a few times in the past. Others have used way-oversized HVAC flex duct to do the same through their attic...I believe John Jordan did it that way. The secret sauce is "indirect", regardless of how you choose to do it.

https://zfyscq.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mt630IDUpLpl4Xh7v5SGJtiXXRDg3_1u9XyjnFVxcsEDgTpa LP7-Bm-ZY5KobW8zqAtKd8SPxk2K29ZSkms6rOBmFGLibosDTY5YK4Ns7 bzM0IiENDjMjiUo_DwKwkz0VdjyuG0iGFvqWpBT2iNZXFJ8eFL R6pMua93JJCfgl0VfkhkU2uflqexiqmPYMUMUQa_LmM1JTfsDA QZKjBmIL4A?width=639&height=539&cropmode=none

[Alan Lightstone]

That's pretty slick, Jim. I'm thinking what I may do, is use two 12" flexible hoses through a piece of wood sitting on the floor, going under the elevated 18" floor. If I put them into a U configuration (or something serpentine), I would think that would attenuate sound quite well too.

Or a vertical wood piece covering the opening below the floor, heading into a serpentine wood box, somewhat like you did with the joists.

Do you need to put soundproofing material in the box? Did you put it in your joists?

[Jim Becker]

With the raised floor, putting a "meandering" return or two under it would work out fine including elimination of direct sound transmission as I mentioned previously. Most raised floor systems also support some kind of grate that is designed for passing air, too. The advantage to the flex duct is that it will provide additional sound reduction, particularly if it's the insulated type. My return used Homasote for the middle and bottom horizontal pieces. BTW, the inside of my DC/Compressor closet is lined with pegboard that has the back (rough) side facing the noise. That helps break up things and the little holes allow the fiberglass in the walls to catch some of the rumble, too, as well as the higher efrequencies.

[Alan Lightstone]

OK. Next question. What do people think of the idea of a barn door for the finishing room? I'm thinking it frees up lots of floor space where the door would swing, plus the room will need air intake for the exhaust fan. The downside is that after I've finished spraying a relatively airtight door might be nice so the shop wouldn't stink from residual finish.

[Jim Becker]

Barn doors/pocket doors do have a space saving aspect, but they don't seal very well as you mention. If you plan on using solvent based finishing products, that can be an important factor for safety.

[Peter Christensen]

The upside to the barn door is they can be rigged with a slope or counterweights so they are self closing. A fusible link holding the door open will melt in the event of a fire allowing the door to close. It won't be airtight but you can put an exterior rated roll-up door in front if you really want to.

[Alan Lightstone]

Also, is it allowable to use OSB for interior, non-load bearing workshop walls? The ceiling separating the workshop from the living areas of the house is poured concrete with tin covering on the workshop ceiling, so can't imagine fire transmission through that, but I can't find anywhere that says OSB is allowable to interior walls. I know its commonly done in workshops.

[Alan Lightstone]

Well, lots of progress this week.

The raised access floor was installed. I saved a bunch of money going with a used floor (they are usually easy to find), but there was lots of glue to remove. Not terribly thrilled about that part.

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The machine rigger / movers moved all the Felder machines that were delivered earlier this week. Fortunately my 17' tall ceilings and tall garage doors allowed a forklift to bring them in the workshop and lift them up onto the raised floor. From there a narrow pallet jack handled moving them, actually quite easily.

The real difficult one was the FB710 bandsaw. Only about 850#, but over 8 feet tall, and it comes on its side on a pallet. It was interesting watching that lifted up and onto the floor. Also, it was the only piece that a pallet jack won't go underneath after it's put on the floor. For now, I've got it on two 4x4s. Not sure how I'll get it off those. I might just leave them there (after cutting them down a little shorter).

The machine movers were awesome. They moved all the equipment, my table saw cabinet, workbench, tool carts, etc... on the elevated floor. Just good guys who knew what they were doing.

Here's a few pictures of the move:
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Everything needs to be fully assembled. The next step is cabinets, then electrical and ducting, then Felder will send in their technician to put everything together. I can't wait.

I'll post some better pictures once I clean things up.

[Frank Pratt]

I really do like the idea of using a raised floor system in a shop. They are very strong, can be made extremely level & it's a breeze running power & dust collection under there & the relocating it as the shop evolves. If I ever build another shop that will be high on my list of wants.

[Jim Becker]

Alan, if you need to get the bandsaw off the 4x4s, just do it in steps...pull it away from the wall a little, raise the back with a jack or lever, remove the rear 4x4, let down the back side (the wall is there for safety), raise the front, remove the 4x4, lower the front and then wiggle it back into the desired position. That said, if the table height is acceptable with the blocks in place, leave them as it will allow for easier moving of the tool in the future if that becomes a need.

That floor looks great. Can we assume the glue thing is because it was covered in carpet at some point?

[Alan Lightstone]

Alan, if you need to get the bandsaw off the 4x4s, just do it in steps...pull it away from the wall a little, raise the back with a jack or lever, remove the rear 4x4, let down the back side (the wall is there for safety), raise the front, remove the 4x4, lower the front and then wiggle it back into the desired position. That said, if the table height is acceptable with the blocks in place, leave them as it will allow for easier moving of the tool in the future if that becomes a need.

That floor looks great. Can we assume the glue thing is because it was covered in carpet at some point?
Yes, we were assuming it was carpet glue, but not really sure.

Any thoughts as to a type of paint I could roll on to the flooring that is durable? It does look a little rough (and yes, I know, it's a workshop).

[Jim Becker]

I would think that you could use "normal" flooring paint as long as everything is clean and grease-free.

[Alan Lightstone]

It's been a busy two weeks. I'll post some pictures when I have everything cleaned up / hooked up.

The Phase Perfect 3-phase converter is installed. Working on terminating the equipment to use it.

Dust collection piping is almost done, under the floor.

Mitsubishi split AC is on order, and hopefully installed in a few weeks.

Lighting fixtures waiting for installation, and bulbs to arrive.

Cabinetry almost totally installed, though I realized I need more than I ordered. Aaarghhh!!!!! $$$$$$

Once ducting and electrical is set, I'll get Felder to come down and put together and calibrate my equipment.

One Jet air filter up (the smaller one), the huge beast of one needs to be hung from the ceiling next week.

3 hoists also need to be hung from the ceiling, one to lift the entrance ramp out of the way (that 12 foot ramp is huge - yeah, I know, it's 12 feet), one to lift my large crosscut sled out of the way so I don't hurt my back lifting it, and one to lift things near the entrance.

And, I need to get someone to build the couple of walls, and doors for the entrance to the finishing room and the workshop, and the cyclone room (gonna try Jim Becker's idea there to reduce sound). Also need a hole cut in the ciderblock to hold my explosion proof fan for the finishing room.

So lots done, and lots still to do. Pictures will tell the real story.

[Tom Bain]

That is going to be a sweet shop, Alan. Looks like great progress. I’m really looking forward to seeing the finishing room, as I’m trying to figure out how to incorporate one into my shop (which is a work in progress, and not nearly as far along as yours).

[Alan Lightstone]

So lots to report, but I need to post some pictures later.

Felder send their tech to “commission” the machines. This took two days, and outside of the grouchy tech went well.

The bandsaw was the biggest pain to setup. The steel table took both of us dying from the weight, plus a lifting table, otherwise we never would have gotten it on. That FB710 really is a beast.

The jointer and planer work incredibly well, and are very quiet. Really glad I got those big 7.5HP 3-phase motors.

Next step is to order a sander (still trying to figure out how to stuff a wide belt sander in here). I’m debating a Grizzly 25” wide belt, vs a larger drum sander. Floor space is at a premium. Also, I’d love to get a panel saw. I can easily fit that if I don’t get the sander, but the sander is far more important.

Then the next step is to get a builder to frame out and enclose the finishing room, and workshop, and install 4 doors. Plus cutting into the cinder block wall to install the explosion proof fan for spray finishing.

So lots still to do, but now I have a working table saw, bandsaw, jointer, and planer. Just no working sander. So I can at least make wood straight and build stuff.

OK, so here’s some preliminary pictures:
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[William Young]

You know, of course, that the 1st or 2nd year after your shop is complete, you will have a storm with a 12' storm surge. Put your shop on the upper level and use the lower level for storage, finish room, etc. Put in a lift or trap door with hoist for heavy equipment and/or completed projects. You have the opportunity. Why not use it?

[Jim Becker]

William, Alan's shop is pretty much built...and it does have a raised floor.

[William Young]

William, Alan's shop is pretty much built...and it does have a raised floor.

I apologize. I didn't look closely enough and didn't realize that there was more than one page of comments and didn't note the date of the OP.

[Jim Becker]

Oh, not a problem...I just didn't want the state of the project to be misunderstood. The OP is doing all the "finesse" work now :)

[Kris Cook]

Alan - good for you, and congratulations on getting equipment moved into your new shop.

I am likely a year out on that phase due to current progress and imminent work schedule.

Enjoy!

[Alan Lightstone]

I was able to move the jointer against the wall, using some wasted space, and freeing up space for a wide belt sander. Woohoo!!!

Since I only bought the 10HP Phase Perfect (almost bought the 15HP, but thought it would be overkill), this limits me to I think the 24" Grizzly G0445. 10HP, 3-Phase, 24" with platen. Hopefully I won't need wider than that. It's rare that I have in the past.

I can also get the small SawTrax panel saw that I've been looking at. I hate cutting down big sheets on my table saw. Really not crazy about doing it with a track saw either. I think I'll really appreciate having that, though may not use it a great deal.

Have to get more boxes unpacked, and then choose a contractor to finish the walls of the workshop, install a few doors, and cut the hole in the cinder block for the explosion proof fan for the finishing room.

So still tons to do, but at least now I can actually start building something (although I really need a sander).

[Alan Lightstone]

OK. I just couldn’t justify keeping my SawStop contractor saw, as underpowered as it is, even though it was built into an awesome cabinet with improved dust collection, and router table.

So I bit the bullet and just got a 5HP, 3-Phase SawStop industrial cabinet saw.

It was interesting with just two of us lifting it onto its base (that ceiling hoist just paid for itself). The instructions literally say, get four people for this, preferably 5 people. With the hoist, we put it on its base in 5 minutes with 2 people.

Setup took the better part of a day, and I haven’t dialed it in yet, but now I have to get it wired and working so I can start taking apart my saw table with my old SawStop and put that on Craigslist.

The SCMS station is mostly done. I just need to build the drawer boxes and laminate the drawer fronts, and I’ll have a great miter station with my Kapex and FastCap Best Fence system.

Here’s the beast:
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I really need to post some photos here. Starting to make real progress. Still need walls and delivery / installation of the panel saw and wide belt sander, but its starting to feel like a shop here.

[John K Jordan]

Good fun!

I think their mobile base is the best available anywhere. (I got one for a milling machine)

JKJ

[Alan Lightstone]

So, making progress. I built a large table for the side of my table saw to add storage, places to put blades, wrenches, all assorted stuff.
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Boy, not high on my list to build a large cabinet with this many deep drawers again. Ouch.

Next I built an oversized version of a router table, loosely derived from Norm Abrams classic router table, but substantially larger and beefier to accomodate the 3-1/4HP router and Ready-2-Rout router system that I had. I had to make the depth substantially deeper to prevent from taking away usable width from the Table Saw (although it is on wheels and can roll). The finished version has a polycarbonate door, but I'm still drilling holes in it for makeup air for the cyclone.

The Grizzly wide belt sander has been great, although I do wish I had purchased the 37" version (didn't have enough 3-phase current for it with the Phase Perfect system I have, plus space would have been tight). I'll probably rarely need that extra capacity, but for the oversized shop furniture it would have been very helpful.
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Here's a few assorted photos of the layout:

The panel saw:
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The Felder Jointer:
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The Felder Planer/Thicknesser with Digital Drive and Display (awesome to have this accuracy, and ease of use):
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The Voyager DVR Drill Press:
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The Overhead LED lighting with an overhead hoist to lift up my crosscut sled to get it out of the way when not being used. It's made of 3/4" MDF (won't do that again), and with the aluminum extrusion fences and stops, it weighs a ton, so this is a huge back saver:
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The Felder Planer with the Digital Drive and Display (awesome to have this accuracy):
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[Alan Lightstone]

Continued (only can post 8 photos per post):

The two Jet overhead air cleaners. It's amazing how effective these are in scrubbing the air to way below ambient air particle counts, according to my Dylos meter. Even when that freaky dust storm from Lake Mali in Africa brought all that dust way across the Atlantic to the Gulf of Mexico, I could measure how bad the ambient air was, and how amazingly clean it became when using these. Sadly, they are pretty noisy:
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The next phase is finishing the front walls of the workshop, separating it from the garage with significant soundproofing. The same with the cyclone room (especially with regards to soundproofing).

Also, the finishing room will be walled off, and an explosion proof fan installed in the wall. Then I'll have to build a compartment to hold paint filters, and will again be able to spray finishes. Woohoo!!!!! Hopefully this will occur in the next month, and I'll be ready to roll.