bedframe with builtin drawers - wood or metal rail?

[Jeremy Patrick]

Putting together my plans for a King size bedframe with built in drawers on either side (no box spring so lots of extra room to work with)
I've come across multiple perspectives of what to use for drawer rails. Some say things like non-office type pieces such as dressers should stick with wooden rails for a few different reasons. But some go right to the different type of metal slides.

I'm certainly interested on tackling the all wood approach as all of my current furniture is on the antique side and not a single metal slide is in use. Quite like the feel of that!

But for those with far more experience, what is your suggestion?

[Cary Falk]

I hate wood slides. I vote metal.

[Jim Morgan]

Don't know that I have "far more" experience, but I have built a couple of platform bed bases with storage - one for a regular mattress, one for a waterbed. I used Blum Tandem undermount slides for both. These work very smoothly and are not visible.

Under-bed drawers are recessed and close to the ground, so you are often opening them at a bit of an awkward angle. I was concerned that wooden runners would bind under these circumstances.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Good info James, thanks.
I had the same thought regarding opening angle, stress points on the rail design. Would be just my luck I spend the time to make something like that and one wrong instance of opening it and something breaks!
Just searched for the BT slides and saw the sizes offered. Have heard others also favor this brand.
The largest appears to be a 21". Was going to try and make 25" drawers since there is so much wasted space underneath the mattress, but I'll have to tailor my design a bit.

First two search results were Rockler, and wwhardware. Did you have a particular store that had better prices or are they fairly the same across the board?

[Jim Morgan]

I got my slides from Lee Valley - they had a good in-quantity price at the time. YMMV.

[Jeremy Patrick]

got it, I'll check them out and compare.

[Jamie Buxton]

Blum Tandems go up to 30". 569.7650B. They're in the paper wwhardware catalog I have in the shop.

[Jamie Buxton]

Beware of the room size. Do you have room for the king width plus two fully-extended drawers? Plus furniture like dressers?

[Andy Giddings]

As you're going for full depth, I'm assuming the drawers are also going to be quite wide? I'd also recommend Blum Tandem but you might also need to consider their Lateral Stabilizers if you go wider than 24" to avoid any racking. I believe they work on the 569 series up to 27" long

[lowell holmes]

I got my slides from Lee Valley - they had a good in-quantity price at the time. YMMV.

Which of the 38 choices on the Lee Valley web site did you select? I'm just curious.:)

[Jim Morgan]

Which of the 38 choices on the Lee Valley web site did you select? I'm just curious.:)


Lowell, I went with the 550 mm Tandem Plus slides, without Blumotion (no need for drawers that are not opened very often). I see that these are no longer available from LV, don't know if they are available elsewhere. Once you get over these 22-inchers, it looks like the price accelerates quite rapidly.

[Andy Giddings]

I found that Build.com has a good range of Blum products and their prices tend to be among the lowest. They have the 569's up to 30"

[Jeremy Patrick]

the way the bed is arranged all drawers could open to full depth and be fine. I grabbed the wrong set of papers from my office so if course all my numbers aren't with me. But I think my drawer width is getting close to what you mentioned Andy.
I don't have any need to have drawer size that big, just trying to come up with a decent layout given the fact that some kind of night stand will block the first 17-20 inches or so from the head side.
If I also make nightstands I can control the blocked distance a bit more, but I hadn't planned on it.

[Jim Morgan]

In the platform that I built for our king-size waterbed, I divided each side into thirds. The two thirds toward the foot of the bed are drawers. There is a fifth drawer at the foot of the bed, in the middle. The third toward the head of the bed on each side had a hinged door. Even with nightstands in place, these open about halfway, allowing access to cubbies for rarely accessed items.

[lowell holmes]

Jeremy, it sounds like a fun project you have going.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Right on Jim! I was contemplating something along the same lines but wasn't quite sure what would go in that dead space. The original plans actually spec out 3 spaces; guess I should have stuck to the original layout!
What orientation do you have the door swing going?
We found an awesome deal on a semi finished cedar chest, and that sits at the foot of the bed now. If we didn't have that I had already been scheming up an idea for a hidden drawer in the footboard panel. Gues I'll have to find another item to make hidden compartments in....

[Jeremy Patrick]

Thanks, I'm excited to tackle it.
This project is being paired with building a bathroom vanity base cabinet. Lots of pine came down around my folks place a few years ago, so I have a nice pile of true 2x6 rough cut lumber to work with. Bed frame is aiming to be all pine and stained, but the vanity is soft maple and aimed at a grey colour paint. Had another thread on that here and narrowed down to a mix of GF milk paints to get the gray we're wanting.
We'll see how it goes!

[Jeremy Patrick]

I was wondering about the price points on these actually. Even though the available models go up to 30", is it worth it to get the larger unit vs tailoring the drawer depth to the ~22-25" limit.

[Andy Giddings]

I was wondering about the price points on these actually. Even though the available models go up to 30", is it worth it to get the larger unit vs tailoring the drawer depth to the ~22-25" limit.
If it helps, I normally figure out what I need to store, and that tends to dictate drawer size etc. Bedding can take more space (wider, deeper drawers) than clothes need for example.

[Jim Morgan]

Right on Jim! I was contemplating something along the same lines but wasn't quite sure what would go in that dead space. The original plans actually spec out 3 spaces; guess I should have stuck to the original layout!
What orientation do you have the door swing going?
We found an awesome deal on a semi finished cedar chest, and that sits at the foot of the bed now. If we didn't have that I had already been scheming up an idea for a hidden drawer in the footboard panel. Gues I'll have to find another item to make hidden compartments in....

Jeremy, doors are hinged at head end, otherwise would be really difficult to access. King waterbed is 80L x 76W, so still have some dead space in the middle - couldn't figure out any way to access that.

[Jim Becker]

For functional needs, such as the drawers that would be in the bed base in your project, I'd absolutely use slides for the best long-term performance and ease of use. Traditional wood slides are great in fine furniture for sure, but for this project...metal for me. They can be hidden types so they don't show as a compromise between looks and function.

For the internal rails on the frame that will support your platform, there's no need to eschew wood if you us material that's appropriately sized and use a fastening technique that adds strength. A groove, glue and a few mechanical fasteners (screws) would work just fine. Be sure that the grain direction of the rails matches that of your frames. One thing...you still need center support even with a platform for a king sized bed, so be sure you plan for that in your structure.

[lowell holmes]

That sounds like an interesting project . . .

[Jim Andrew]

Any chance you could post pics of your project as you proceed? My son would like a platform for their bed with drawers as well.

[Jim Dwight]

Sounds like you have a plan but I will add my 2 cents worth anyway. I build only beds without boxed springs. I do not build in drawers, however, preferring to make the bed more conventionally and then build rolling drawers to go under the bed. Works for my kids and me.

[Jeremy Patrick]

If I could bring this topic back to the front; maybe I'm just too tired after a long day but trying to figure out the intricacies of blum's product line is giving me a headache.
Could I get some clarification on what would be the ideal selection for the following:
25 3/4 length inset drawer front. Approx 24" depth.
That's all I'm looking for. since I'm aiming to get the rails first, I can build around whatever is needed. Too many dang options when using their calculator and excel spreadsheet. Feels like I need a degree in Blum to figure it out.
For a clothes drawer, I don't see the need for the blumotion soft close feature. Too often then not the clothes are smooshed in there enough that you have to push the drawer in, so any soft close feature probably wouldn't be seen as beneficial.

suggestions?

Thank you

[Lee Schierer]

If I were to make our bed frame over again with drawers under the mattress, I would use full extension slides instead of the 3/4 extension slides I purchased 40 years ago.

I feel the only reason that metal slides were not used in antique pieces is because they didn't exist. I've made furniture with wood slides and see no advantage and there are disadvantages such as having the drawer pull all the way out unexpectedly and stickiness due to seasonal moisture changes and wood movement.

Whatever you do make the base in two sections so it can be moved in and out of the room. I didn't do this with our Queen size bed frame and it is a real bear to move. I have to remove the vanity in the family bathroom to move the frame into the bathroom to make the swing through the door into our bedroom.

[Jeremy Patrick]

I plan on making this modular wither the cabinet body being secured to the head and foot board by pocket screws. I know we're not going to be in this house forever so assembling and moving has to be part of my design.

[Andy Giddings]

If I could bring this topic back to the front; maybe I'm just too tired after a long day but trying to figure out the intricacies of blum's product line is giving me a headache.
Could I get some clarification on what would be the ideal selection for the following:
25 3/4 length inset drawer front. Approx 24" depth.
That's all I'm looking for. since I'm aiming to get the rails first, I can build around whatever is needed. Too many dang options when using their calculator and excel spreadsheet. Feels like I need a degree in Blum to figure it out.
For a clothes drawer, I don't see the need for the blumotion soft close feature. Too often then not the clothes are smooshed in there enough that you have to push the drawer in, so any soft close feature probably wouldn't be seen as beneficial.

suggestions?

Thank you

All of the Tandem undermounts have soft close AFAIK so for an inset drawer of 24 deep you would need the 569 or 569A series depending on the drawer thickness (569.6100B or 569A.6100B). As I said earlier, if you have a wider drawer than 24" consider the lateral stabilizer as well

[Jeremy Patrick]

I see where you're going now. Finally came across a pdf of the new 563 and 569 series and it gave a drawer depth chart. I think what was throwing me off was the excel planner from blum telling me to use the 563 even for the dimensions I mentioned, so I was getting really confused on where the 569 units came in.

I do hear your point of considering the stabilizers for such a wide drawer, but that is also something I can tailor a bit. Maybe play with the faceframe measurements a bit to try and eat up some of the drawer width while keeping all 3 spaces equal.

Looking at the prices though, going with a 21" 563 vs a 24" 569 is a decent price break. I had put the dimensions of the drawers on the larger size simply to try and make use of the space. but the total bill for 4 of the heavy duty rails, plus locking devices and the jig was getting a bit over $250.

The lowest prices I've been able to find so far are from ahturf.com

The 21" 563 cart total was about $160 with the jig. (4x20 for rails, 4x3.44 for locking devices, 45/jig)

Would you say that is a decent price or would there be another place to look at for even lower prices?

The vanity I'm also planning to build would have 6 drawers which would be awesome to use blum in those. If so then the jig will prove quite useful for the money.

[Andy Giddings]

I see where you're going now. Finally came across a pdf of the new 563 and 569 series and it gave a drawer depth chart. I think what was throwing me off was the excel planner from blum telling me to use the 563 even for the dimensions I mentioned, so I was getting really confused on where the 569 units came in.

I do hear your point of considering the stabilizers for such a wide drawer, but that is also something I can tailor a bit. Maybe play with the faceframe measurements a bit to try and eat up some of the drawer width while keeping all 3 spaces equal.

Looking at the prices though, going with a 21" 563 vs a 24" 569 is a decent price break. I had put the dimensions of the drawers on the larger size simply to try and make use of the space. but the total bill for 4 of the heavy duty rails, plus locking devices and the jig was getting a bit over $250.

The lowest prices I've been able to find so far are from ahturf.com

The 21" 563 cart total was about $160 with the jig. (4x20 for rails, 4x3.44 for locking devices, 45/jig)

Would you say that is a decent price or would there be another place to look at for even lower prices?

The vanity I'm also planning to build would have 6 drawers which would be awesome to use blum in those. If so then the jig will prove quite useful for the money.

Those prices seem about as low as I've seen around the regular online suppliers I've used. I've never used a jig as I either mount the slides resting on the bottom of the cabinet or drill a regular 32mm pattern and use that, but I only build frameless cabinets these days (a lot of wasted capacity in face frames plus they are more of a pain to build)

[Jim Morgan]

Those prices seem about as low as I've seen around the regular online suppliers I've used. I've never used a jig as I either mount the slides resting on the bottom of the cabinet or drill a regular 32mm pattern and use that, but I only build frameless cabinets these days (a lot of wasted capacity in face frames plus they are more of a pain to build)

The jig (the one I have, anyway) is for the locking devices & the hole at the back of the drawer, not the slides themselves.

[Andy Giddings]

The jig (the one I have, anyway) is for the locking devices & the hole at the back of the drawer, not the slides themselves.
I have the same. Definitely worth getting but there are other jigs for aligning the slides which is what I thought was being discussed

[Jacques Gagnon]

Jeremy:

I have used both Blum undermount and full-extension side slides; undermounts win in terms of aesthetics; side mount are better from a price perspective. Both types are similar in terms of quietness of operation and load. I think your preference will be for undermount, but I just wanted to make sure the other option was on the table (or under the bed in this case :)).

[Jeremy Patrick]

haha, good one.
I have thought of the side mount slides but I could also go round and round trying to decide which would really be better. Even though I could probably get away with a bit less in costs, it's easier to select an option and run with it for multiple things.

[Jeremy Patrick]

when I was searching I couldn't see any place that had lower prices, but wanted to check.
I like the design for my two projects which has a faceframe. I suppose in another setting frameless would work out better, but to each their own I suppose.

[Jeremy Patrick]

The only issue I have with the jig is the cost. Almost 50 bucks for this.
Would you say the cost is actually worth it or would making a jig myself be just as fine? Having one less jig to have to make would be nice but $50?

[Andy Giddings]

The only issue I have with the jig is the cost. Almost 50 bucks for this.
Would you say the cost is actually worth it or would making a jig myself be just as fine? Having one less jig to have to make would be nice but $50?

If its the Blum drawer jig, Jeremy - it's worth it if you are going to stick with the Tandem slides AND build any sizeable quantity of drawers. If you are only going to do the bed drawers then I would build my own or just measure. Its really only the holes in the back of the drawer that need to be accurate and consistent. The holes for the locks can be made with a Vix bit or similar

[Jeremy Patrick]

Concealed Runner Template
(http://ahturf.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=118269)This is the jig I'm referring to.
My sizable quantity would be all of 10 drawers for both projects. At some point down the road if I tackle re-doing the cabinets for our kitchen I might have another 10-12 but that would be it.

Isn't the other aspect of blum the fact that there is much much adjustment room that if a hole isn't perfectly on, it's not going to jack up the entire setup? Or does the adjustment aspect come into play for the drawer, not the actual rail install?

[Jacques Gagnon]

... glad I did not succeed in diverting your focus!!! I am sure Blum slides will work great for your project.

[Andy Giddings]

That's the same jig. For that amount of drawers I would make my own jig or template. As you state, the Blum slides and locks have a good degree of adjustment. You've probably noticed the locks come in different styles - some have side to side adjustment but the basic ones don't. Are you building the drawers with false fronts/inset or are the false fronts/overlay? Inset I would recommend the locks with side to side adjustment.

[Jeremy Patrick]

yep I've noticed the selection. I know the standard ones are far cheaper, but having the depth and side adjustment seems worth it.
The drawers will be a standard box with a false front, 3/4 for both thicknesses.

[Jeremy Patrick]

order is placed minus the jig.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Andy, if I could ask a side question. When you make frameless cabinets, what are you doing for the visible portion of board end seen when the drawer or cabinet door is open? Glue on veneer?
Finished plywood seems like the favored choice for building cabinet frames, but that would show the multi-layered cut end unless covered up right?

[Jeremy Patrick]

I ordered slides for both the bedframe and the vanity. I'm guessing the smooth effect will be noticed more with the vanity given the wide variety of items possibly accessed in the bathroom. Of course I was so focused on the slides that I completely overlooked ordering the right hinges for the two center doors of the vanity!

[Andy Giddings]

Andy, if I could ask a side question. When you make frameless cabinets, what are you doing for the visible portion of board end seen when the drawer or cabinet door is open? Glue on veneer?
Finished plywood seems like the favored choice for building cabinet frames, but that would show the multi-layered cut end unless covered up right?
I typically buy an iron on birch veneer from Amazon https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019PE7U22/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1. I've tried glued on edgebanding and for me its a slower process with the same result. Most of the cabinets I build are a painted finish so have never bothered with pre-finished ply - just used Baltic birch as it stays flat, void free and generally has at least one defect free side

[Don Jarvie]

Late to the party but someone who has done this. Before you make the draws make sure you make the clearance on each side according to the specs from the slides. Ex, it may be 1/4 inch plus 5/32 each side. If it's too tight or loose the sides won't work.

Make the frame first then the draws so the draws fit right. I'll leave a 1/4 to 3/8 on the bottom and about 3/8 to 1/2 on the top. Make them an inch shorter for the depth. Add a false face so the draw front over laps frame about 3/8 around. You can make the front out of 1/2 birch ply with mounding around so it has some detail.

+1 on the iron on edging. It works great and looks good.

[Jeremy Patrick]

Understood. I'm picking up supplies this afternoon and going to build both box compartments tomorrow. I'll make sure I have the specs printed out to make sure I'm on the right path.