Fritz and Franz jig

[John Sincerbeaux]

I recently purchased my first sliding table saw and said good by to me faithful PM66 cabinet saw. I had serious concerns that my slider might not be practical for fabricating small parts, which ironically is about 80% of my work.
While waiting for my saw to be delivered from Germany, I had lots of time to think how I would need to change the way I did things on my slider? I found a series on YouTube titled "Getting the most out of your slider" by a fellow creeker and great guy, Steve Rowe AKA "Exreme Woodworker". I think there are 6 different videos on the subject. They couldn't have been more helpful to me and as a bonus, he had the same saw as I ordered. I reached out to Steve since I had a few questions about his saw. The first thing he told me was to make a Fritz and Franz jig. One of the vids in his series is the use and making of the jig. I saw other F&F jigs online but non had the T-track design his had.

So, taking his advice, the first thing I made on my saw was a mock-up of basically his design. The major difference was, I wanted mine to be all-metal. Completely unnecessary, I know. I am a little OCD and I like really nice tooling. It also helps that I have a good friend who owns a machine shop.

But the main reason I wanted to share this is that I think this jig should be standard equipment for all sliders if you ever cut small to medium sizes of wood on a slider. In fact, I can think of no safer way of doing so?
The jig can also be used as a parallel fence on the sliding table.

My jig consists of 3/4" aluminum
steel runners
1/32" UHMW strips on the bottom
1/4" UHMW strips tongue and grooved into the aluminum for zero clearance
17" red anodized alum T Track inlayed into the aluminum (commercially available)
fabricated aluminum handles
UHMW stops made using the jig
100 grit sandpaper glued to leading edges

Again this jig could be made using MDF, wooden runners, and plastic handles for about $40 (w tracks)

This jig brings so much utility to a slider. Check out Steve's vids (he has many great WW vids) and like I said, he shows how he built his and where he purchased his parts.

366119366120366121366121366122

[Rod Sheridan]

Looks very nice however it will never work.

Everyone knows that "Fritz und Franz" jigs have bright green edging, not red:D

Regards, Rod.

P.S. You're correct, they are a must have jig for a slider.

[Brian W Evans]

Those are beautiful! And that saw is also a work of art - congratulations! I recently bought a slider and immediately built the F&F jigs (baltic birch, with tracks). I can't imagine using the saw without them. I watched many videos about the F&F jig, including Steve Rowe's (I've seen all of his slider videos), and his was the best design and instructions I found.

Here's a great video about cutting sheet stock on a slider, since Steve hasn't gotten to that yet: https://youtu.be/L8JR_fD-dMI

[Steve Rowe]

John took the jig up several notches and I had to turn over the Extreme Woodworker man-card. We had a great visit several weeks ago and what seemed like only a few minutes was actually over a 2 hour visit.

Steve

[Mike King]

Love my fritz and Franz -- its the Ruwi version imported by Martin.

[Mark Bolton]

I like the ergo of the canted handle on the Fritz and Franz and that's what we built for ours. The straight handle would look to be uncomfortable.

Nice build.

I like the wood plattens where you just smack them on, cut clear through the front and back, and your dead nuts. Use ours a lot for straightlining rough stock.

[Joe Calhoon]

John, those are nice jigs! I threw mine together quick with the intention of building better ones. Some friends even bought the official green banding from Germany. Some day when I have time...
These sure changed the way we work the slider. I still keep a unisaw on wheels but it was only turned on a couple times the past year for cross dados. I have a nice adj cutter on order for the slider and planning to give the unisaw to my son.

Steve, I just watched some of your U Tube. Nicely done! Here is a short cutoff device that came with my T72. Its real simple, 200mm long you just add to the scale reading. Several people have seen this and want one but no one at Martin knows if it is still available. Would be easy to make.

366210
366211

[Steve Rowe]

Thanks Joe, That is an interesting attachment to the stop. I doubt that it would work on the two point contact fence though.

I'll see you in about 3 weeks - looking forward to absorbing some shaper wisdom.
Steve

[Jim Becker]

Thanks for calling attention to that video series...I just subscribed/book marked it. I'll soon have a lot more time available for the shop and I'm sure that there will be some things in the videos that will enhance my own slider use beyond what I've dreamed up so far. :)

[John Lankers]

Well done, you've taken the F&F jig to the next level - 2 thumbs up. It gives the SawStop a run for it's money in regards to safety, IMHO.
P.s.: I have the push handle on my F&F jig mounted at a slight angle, long axis pointing at 1:00 o'clock and up, but that's personal preference.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Thanks for the compliments guys.
Yes, I think safer than a SawStop. Hands are far away from the blade also your body is out of the line of fire.
I played with the handle placement a lot. The deciding factor was actually the weight and balance of the jigs. They are pretty heavy, so the handles are more fore lifting the jigs on and off the saw table. The orientation still works very well for me.
Cheers

[Jim Becker]

After watching the mentioned videos the other night...Professor Dr. SWMBO was really concerned when she heard loud saw-sounds coming from our media room since I watched via AirPlay on the big screen in full surround sound LOL ... I decided immediately to make a Friz and Franz jig for my own slider. What a versatile setup! I had to order the track hardware which will arrive in a few days, but I already laminated the base materials when I had one of those elusive "copious free moments" this past weekend.

[Robb White]

Amazing craftsmanship! Anyone have a direct link to the video series? I tried searching and couldn't seem to find it. Thanks all!

-Rob

[Rod Sheridan]

Yes, they're very handy Jim.

The only thing I had to order was the "official" bright green T slot molding.........Rod.

[Andy Giddings]

Amazing craftsmanship! Anyone have a direct link to the video series? I tried searching and couldn't seem to find it. Thanks all!

-Rob
Just look for Extreme Woodworker channel on You Tube, Robb

[Robb White]

Just look for Extreme Woodworker channel on You Tube, Robb

Ah found it thanks!

-Rob

[Jim Becker]

I completed my own Fritz 'n Franz jig today and look forward to using it! This is on a MiniMax S315WS slider.

https://rqepwq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mtPgaKA1yUicLAkIL3ox9dTkz_T6GSdpXZNS6RO3OKOaegYg kxn9WueUePIWZ2EG2LKf17nNvfMZCLwTQMka5srkRTMHZu8eYF OaQ3nfpCCfqhJfVWrrWl_mh_lFnAjUHu7FME-78hPYDgGiyE1PlutdbfGqC--ozYpXuZN6FqTtzVGMvuEZzlrK_ezKfd6fiKMtlyhD-9DB_5dNlS_0Okw?width=660&height=660&cropmode=none

[Chris Parks]

Looks good Jim. I have been thinking about the way the jig is made and one problem is that the end nearest the blade which I use as a zero reference gets chewed away by the blade or if the blade is changed is no longer zero to the blade. I am thinking that it would be a good idea to make the end nearest the blade have replaceable faces so changes can be made without making a whole new jig out of either a very hard timber or maybe aluminium or HDPE.

I have made two different types, one is plain Jane with no tracks, rules, stops etc and the other has tracks and stops. I find I use the plain one way more than the fancy one using the end of the jig as a zero reference and placing the measured mark I want to cut to against that edge and that is very fast and accurate. I am thinking of making one for 45 degree angle cuts as well to make them easier to do without having to set the saw each time.

[Jim Becker]

Chris, I can absolutely see the value of using this "technique" to construct dedicated jigs for angles and shapes that one might produce frequently with the type of work they do. The kicker about this is that the workpiece is "captive", both between the two sides of the jig and to the slider wagon. And it can be used to make very small parts safely and without one's hands being anywhere near the spinning blade. Win-win, IMHO.

On the faces, I agree that there is potential for wear. Replaceable is a nice way to deal with that; the challenge is a secure way to keep the replaceable face in-place while being removable without having any metal exposed to the blade. Countersunk screws may work for that.

[John Sincerbeaux]

Chris, I can absolutely see the value of using this "technique" to construct dedicated jigs for angles and shapes that one might produce frequently with the type of work they do. The kicker about this is that the workpiece is "captive", both between the two sides of the jig and to the slider wagon. And it can be used to make very small parts safely and without one's hands being anywhere near the spinning blade. Win-win, IMHO.

On the faces, I agree that there is potential for wear. Replaceable is a nice way to deal with that; the challenge is a secure way to keep the replaceable face in-place while being removable without having any metal exposed to the blade. Countersunk screws may work for that.

Jim, sounds like you realized the same thing as I did.... SAFE way of cutting small pieces. "Win-Win"

I made my jigs to receive replacement edges (zero clearance) via tongue and groove using UHMW strips and a dab of silicon to help keep them in place.

367228

Cheers

[Rod Sheridan]

I completed my own Fritz 'n Franz jig today and look forward to using it! This is on a MiniMax S315WS slider.

https://rqepwq-sn3301.files.1drv.com/y4mtPgaKA1yUicLAkIL3ox9dTkz_T6GSdpXZNS6RO3OKOaegYg kxn9WueUePIWZ2EG2LKf17nNvfMZCLwTQMka5srkRTMHZu8eYF OaQ3nfpCCfqhJfVWrrWl_mh_lFnAjUHu7FME-78hPYDgGiyE1PlutdbfGqC--ozYpXuZN6FqTtzVGMvuEZzlrK_ezKfd6fiKMtlyhD-9DB_5dNlS_0Okw?width=660&height=660&cropmode=none

Wow, fancy, mine's the plain Jane version.
367438

regards, Rod.

[Jeff Bartley]

Rod,
That might be plain Jane but it looks comfortable to use.....and I really like the material deflector on the right side of the blade. Don't think I've seen one of those before.
Really nice jigs guys!

[Chris Parks]

Rod,
That might be plain Jane but it looks comfortable to use.....and I really like the material deflector on the right side of the blade. Don't think I've seen one of those before.
Really nice jigs guys!

That deflector appears in the latest Hammer/Felder video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb1N5oxekyo

[James Zhu]

That is the Aigner deflector. https://www.werkzeuge-fuchs.de/en/mi...ort-workpieces (https://www.werkzeuge-fuchs.de/en/milling/safety-technics/aigner-deflector-to-deflect-short-workpieces)

You can download Aigner catalogue to see the detailed description of the deflector, it should be easy to DIY make one.

https://www.werkzeuge-fuchs.de/en/Downloads


James

[peter gagliardi]

Deflector is easy to make. About $.50 in scrap, and $1.00 in 3/8" dia x 3/8" long rare earth magnets, and 5 minutes of time and you are done.
When not using it, it sticks to overarm guard, or side of the machine.

[Rod Sheridan]

Rod,
That might be plain Jane but it looks comfortable to use.....and I really like the material deflector on the right side of the blade. Don't think I've seen one of those before.
Really nice jigs guys!


Thanks, here's my drawing for it.

367502

Regards, Rod.

[Dan T Jones]

I'm pretty new to using a sliding table. I purchased a 2000 model C3-41. To ask maybe a dumb question when do you use the deflector usually?
Dan

[Jim Becker]

I just saw the "deflector" in the video that Keith posted in the Woodworking Projects forum...and one immediately was put on my "to-do" list. I can think of many times I would have liked to have had that on the saw...

[Jim Becker]

I'm pretty new to using a sliding table. I purchased a 2000 model C3-41. To ask maybe a dumb question when do you use the deflector usually?
Dan
It's primary use is often when trimming off small pieces so that they don't roll back into the blade and go shooting across the room, knocking the shop cat off the shelf and causing general mayhem. :) It's positioned at the riving knife (or where a small piece will clear the cut fully) so that it doesn't try move the piece until it is actually an off-cut.

{edit for clarity}

I meant to say that it gets positioned such that the cutoff just completely clears the cut. That could be back as far as the riving knife or it could be close to the arbor center of the blade, depending on what you are cutting, blade height, etc. The idea is to deflect the small cut-off piece away from the blade so it doesn't ride forward and vibrate to where the teeth might throw it across the room...

[James Biddle]

It's primary use is often when trimming off small pieces so that they don't roll back into the blade and go shooting across the room, knocking the shop cat off the shelf and causing general mayhem. :) It's positioned at the riving knife (or where a small piece will clear the cut fully) so that it doesn't try move the piece until it is actually an off-cut.

Hmm, I have a deflector and I always rested it against the flat of the blade just in front of the arbor. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. I'll try it on the riving knife. Main problem to to remember to install and remove it.

[Jim Becker]

It depends upon what you are cutting...I did note that it could be farther forward, but it can never be in front of the spot where the off-cut is fully, um...cut. IE, you need to move the thing to suit the cut. I'm sorry if I made it seem that it should be at the riving knife; my wording was poor. The ideal spot is where it insures that the spinning blade doesn't pull it back toward the front of the blade and then potentially get caught and thrown across the room...miring the shop cat's day as I playfully mentioned. :)

[Dan T Jones]

Thanks for the help Jim.
Dan

[Gene Reynolds]

I, too, gave up my PM66 after many years and now have a new 48x48 HK3W. Just finished assembly this week. I am almost overwhelmed by the learning curve ahead of me but I'm up to it. I plan on making a F&F jig right away but have a question. Most of the ones I see described have a cross-cut fence on the outfeed portion of the slider and the "upper" half of the F&F jig rests against that; the "lower" half of the jig is moveable and traps the workpiece between the two. My saw doesn't have an outrigger cross-cut fence, only the smaller cross-cut fence that is attached to the infeed end of the slider. Would this fence be moved to the outfeed end to accomplish the same purpose, or is there something I'm missing?

[Jim Becker]

Gene, can you most the miter fence down the slider wagon? I can position mine anywhere along the slider. While I typically use it in the "push" position at the left end, for a F&F, I could just slide it to the right.

[Gene Reynolds]

Yes, I can reposition my cross-cut fence at the infeed end or at the outfeed end of the slider. Is using the "push" configuration where the workpiece is pushed against the fence the more typical way cross-cutting is done?

After further investigation it seems apparent that for a Hammer K3 Winner without an outrigger table, the cross-cut operation is intended to be performed with the cross-cut fence mounted at the infeed end of the slider and pushing against the workpiece, ala a standard cabinet saw. This leaves me with my original question of how the Fritz and Franz jig would be mounted.

[Chris Parks]

My K3 was as Gene describes, no outrigger and CC fence at the infeed end. To use the F&F jig I bought the fixings (cam adjuster & zero stop pin etc) and put them on the table at the outfeed end because I did not want to disturb the zero/square setting in the original position. As it turns out I bought the out rigger later on and before that I used the CC fence in the new position and some years later have never returned the CC fence to the original factory position. If I were going to do it today I would fashion a simple stop at the outfeed end that could be used to butt the stationery part of the F&F jig against and it would be quickly removeable for ripping longer pieces on the sliding table. The only thing essential to the stop is that it is square to the table so some sort method of setting the it to zero quickly against a stop would be essential.

[Jim Becker]

Yes, I can reposition my cross-cut fence at the infeed end or at the outfeed end of the slider. Is using the "push" configuration where the workpiece is pushed against the fence the more typical way cross-cutting is done?

I use "push" for larger pieces of sheet goods, but for typical crosscutting of solid stock and smaller panels, I prefer to use the miter setup attached to my wagon in a "pull" fashion as the workpiece is fully supported through the cut by the machine, rather than my hands. It's nice to have options!!

[mike waters]

Ok, I am going to Necro this thread (thanks Jim Becker!)... He PM'd me that his F&F was shop made.. So I did a search and came to this thread!

Would someone please be so kind to show me a video of how a deflector is used?
I've used holz-her panels saws (vertical) before, but i needed and wanted cleaner cuts and more versatility so i went with the slider (k 940 s)

First time using a sliding saw here and I'd rather not have wood bullets flying across shop.

thanks everyone. y'all are inspiring.

-mike

[Rod Sheridan]

Ok, I am going to Necro this thread (thanks Jim Becker!)... He PM'd me that his F&F was shop made.. So I did a search and came to this thread!

Would someone please be so kind to show me a video of how a deflector is used?
I've used holz-her panels saws (vertical) before, but i needed and wanted cleaner cuts and more versatility so i went with the slider (k 940 s)

First time using a sliding saw here and I'd rather not have wood bullets flying across shop.

thanks everyone. y'all are inspiring.

-mike

I don't have a video however when I run format saw courses I demonstrate a deflector wedge.

Here's a photo and a drawing...........Rod.

425713425714425715

[Jim Becker]

Yea, I built one of those, too, Rod. Great thing to have.

[mike waters]

I don't have a video however when I run format saw courses I demonstrate a deflector wedge.

Here's a photo and a drawing...........Rod.

425713425714425715

PERFECT!

thanks guys!

[Rod Sheridan]

Yes they are Jim.

A couple of days ago I had a small offcut on the saw, it drifted back into the scoring saw which lobbed it at the main blade, then repeated for enough cycles that I had time to hit the stop button.

Looked like a pinball game for a couple of seconds...........Rod.

[Gary Sosa]

434226434227434228There's Derek from Perth (among many) whose Fritz and Franz creations and revisions have inspired, so when looking for a handle, I uncovered this original knob from our 1930's farmhouse and with a forstner bit and some hardware, this knob rotates. I've spaced it to allow for an Incra track and stop, but Incra is still 3-4 weeks out on tracks that will accommodate either a regular or flip stop. Meanwhile, a coat of urethane and a little sanding have kept me away from the TV for a bit. Today is looney tunes and I need to tune out and find something a little more meditative to distract. Mmmm... urethane! I have been sitting on this piece of wood for several years. Carl, my Felder rep, suggested finding a nice piece of wood, rather than spending exorbitant amounts for the Felder/Ruwi kit, which apparently does not fit the slot on the K3's slider. I'll share more pics as this evolves. Peace. Gary

[David Buchhauser]

Looks nice! Will you add some adhesive backed sand paper on the faces of your jig to help grip the work piece? And perhaps some scales with adjustable stops?
David

[Gary Sosa]

Yes, David! Looking at options.

[Gary Sosa]

434301Scales and stops worked out great, but I’ll need to modify the stops (or just get some Incras when available) if I use sandpaper grip tape.