Split the line or leave the line?

[lowell holmes]

Steven mentioned he tried to split the line when cutting dovetails.
Somewhere along the way I decided to leave the line. I still do. That's what I am comfortable with.
Only out of curiosity, what do you guys do?
Do you split the line or leave the line?

I think that what your comfortable with is what you should do.

[steven c newman]

I try to split the line when doing the pins ( I do pins first, YMMV) I use the pins to lay out the tails.....then I cut on the waste side of the lines, usually leaving the lines. I can pare as needed.

When I was working as a carpenter... always asked split the line or leave the line....I try to split the lines, leaving just a hair on the good side....at least on the crosscuts. Force of habit. I can then fit the board a bit better from there, rather than being a hair too short.

Cut the line off?
Split the line?
Leave the line?

[Pat Barry]

Always cut on the waste side of the line remembering that the line is the edge of the finished part. (save the line)

[Roger Nair]

In my practice, I cut to the line, which is struck by an awl or other sharp gauges.

[Patrick Chase]

Steven's technique is perfectly fine. You can split the lines or not use lines at all for whichever you do first (pins or tails), because you're going to transfer the resulting "as-cut" shape anyway when you mark out.

You have to cut entirely on the waste side of those transferred lines, though, or else you'll get gaps.

P.S. Tails first!

[lowell holmes]

I do it like Pat.

[Frederick Skelly]

P.S. Tails first!

Nope. Sorry Patrick. SMC TOS say you can't weigh-in on tails vs pins until you post a project for everyone to enjoy. :D :D :D

(Sorry dude. I just had to nag you about it. ;) )


Oh, and I cut to the line. Tails first.

[steven c newman]

Pins were done first..
366084
Just a dry fit...

[Frank J Hall]

Leave the line
tails first! :)

366086

[steven c newman]

I do the same routine when doing those handcut box joints I use for the boxes I build

Split the lines, chop out the waste, transfer to the other half of the joint, saw only on the waste side of the lines. (making sure I mark which IS the waste side) chop out the waste,again. Do a test fit. Pare IF needed.

[Derek Cohen]

Lines? What lines? :)

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/HalfblindDovetailsinJarrah_html_1b83051.jpg

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Pat Barry]

Nope. Sorry Patrick. SMC TOS say you can't weigh-in on tails vs pins until you post a project for everyone to enjoy. :D :D :D

(Sorry dude. I just had to nag you about it. ;) )

+1 to that!

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Lines? What lines? :)

OK Derek, "split the tape or leave the tape?" :eek:

I know, I should resist.....

[lowell holmes]

If you are wishy-washy (like me), do it one way this time and the other next time.

I guess it depends on the mood I'm in at the time.

[Jim Koepke]

Depending on the purpose the line may be left if it is dovetail cutting or split if it is rip cutting or.

jtk

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Depending on the purpose the line may be left if it is dovetail cutting or split if it is rip cutting or.

jtk

I had not thought of that, I was only thinking dovetails where it really matters which you do. If it is not something that really matters, it is a question of which I think I need practice doing. Sadly, I am not perfect at any of them. I do like Derek's method of using tape, For some reason, that feels easier than cutting to the line.

[Derek Cohen]

To be serious for a moment, the blue tape ...

1. enables a light, single knife stroke. This will slice the paper tape and leave a clear mark.

2. the advantage of a single stroke when transfering the tails to the pins is to reduce any error in marking that are a result of multiple strokes (needed to deepen the mark).

3. a knifed line is thin and then one cuts against the line. The blue tape simply presents the one side of the knifed line.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[lowell holmes]

I've tried Derek's blue tape method. It works quite well.

I don't chop many mortises and it had slipped my mind.

Now I remember why there is a roll of blue tape in my shop.
Old age is hell, but it sure beats the alternative.:)

[steven c newman]

Tape? Tape? We don't need no stinking tape...;)
366140
Pencils are cheaper..
366141
Pins first.....
366142
use them to layout the tails...
366143
Leave the lines, chop the waste out...
366144
Works for me...YMMV:rolleyes:

[James Pallas]

You don't have to use the stinky kind. You can get it with lavender scent and polka dots now.
Jim

[steven c newman]

LOL:D....pencils are still cheaper....and I'm c...FRUGAL....:rolleyes:

[Derek Cohen]

Tape? Tape? We don't need no stinking tape...;)

Steven, you obviously have better eyesight that I do. That is the reason I developed this method. Especially for the dark hardwoods I use. Getting a knife line was hard enough. Getting a knife line that was visible was harder still. Getting a knife line that remained visible was an exercise in frustration.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Brady]

I have found the masking tape method (in the prerequisite blue color) to work well. Cutting to the tape edge does give a somewhat 3-D reference for sawing. I'm not sure I would teach the method to a beginner, however, because it distracts from learning the sawing technique that is essential to whatever method you are using. After making a dozen corners using regular layout lines, the tape method can be introduced to refine the cutting to a point where the joint will fit as sawed.

I have never used a magnetic sawing guide and the idea of one does not appeal to me. What is of value to me is a guide I made to saw the baseline of the half-pins on the tail board. To me this cut needs to be perfectly on line and square because anything but perfection compromises the entire joint; especial on drawer boxes that have just a few dovetails comprising the joint. The tension that makes a successful joint starts at those half-pin baseline cuts. The sawing guide I made is a simple 90 degree wood block used with a no-set pull saw that lets me cut exactly on that scribed baseline. The saw is the Kugihichi from Lee Valley.

[Derek Cohen]

What is of value to me is a guide I made to saw the baseline of the half-pins on the tail board. To me this cut needs to be perfectly on line and square because anything but perfection compromises the entire joint; especial on drawer boxes that have just a few dovetails comprising the joint. The tension that makes a successful joint starts at those half-pin baseline cuts. The sawing guide I made is a simple 90 degree wood block used with a no-set pull saw that lets me cut exactly on that scribed baseline.

Mike, a jig is unnecessary for the line. All you need is a deeply scored line. The saw teeth will be guided by this. The line may be made either by a regular knife, or by a Glen Drake "kerf starter".

Regards from Perth

Derek

[lowell holmes]

Derek, what time is it in Australia now?

A Galveston County Texan wants to know. It is 10:14 AM here. I think we are 15 hours later here.

[Derek Cohen]

Lowell, it is 11:15 p.m. It would be 1:15 a.m. in Sydney.

Busy writing bloody psych reports!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Koepke]

I think we are 15 hours later here.

Not only the hours, we are also a day later.

This was strange when my son who shares my birthday was in Korea. I would call him a day before my birthday to wish him happy birthday and he would call me the day after his birthday to wish me happy birthday. His youngest daughter was born on my wife's birthday.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

Jim, Washington State seems a world away from Houston Texas. We visited Alaska and Washington State , the 8 hour all night flight home seemed
longer than when we flew to Switzerland one time.
A few years ago, we booked a cruise on the Rhine.

I remember Denali and Alaska more fondly.

Also, a 1960's flight from Houston to Chicago on a Braniff propeller plane was loud and long.

[David Eisenhauer]

I worked out of Jakarta for 6-8 months one year and the no-layover trip from Austin to Jakarta was something to behold. I did this many years ago and not sure at my current age if I would want to do this anymore. They do play some games with the clock on that trip and do not let me get started on US based bosses that do not realize there exists a thing called time zones when they call you for project updates.

[lowell holmes]

David,
Would you rather be in Jakarta, or on Lake Travis?
You non Texans probably don't know about Lake Travis. It is a delightful lake in Austin Texas.
I live in Galveston County, near NASA. I used to take a canoe to Lake Travis to paddle.

[lowell holmes]

Not only the hours, we are also a day later.

This was strange when my son who shares my birthday was in Korea. I would call him a day before my birthday to wish him happy birthday and he would call me the day after his birthday to wish me happy birthday. His youngest daughter was born on my wife's birthday.

jtk

Jim, have you visited him in Korea?

[Jim Koepke]

Jim, have you visited him in Korea?

No, he is currently in Maryland. It appears he will be going back to Korea for another tour.

My wife freaks out at the mention of Korea.

I am not much of a traveller. We go into town and I get homesick.

jtk