Table saw Mods?

[Larry Foster]

Trying to decide if it's worth the bother to try and modifymy saw or buy another.
Money is a consideration.
I have a Clarke 10".
Max rip capacity is 12"
I've been looking at a lot of videos on YouTube aboutextension wings and better fences.
The way the saw is constructed, it would be difficult to put a fence with a wider capacity because thefront track is beveled and can't be removed
I stopped at Lowes today to have a look around.
Saw a Kobalt for $279, Hitachi for $479 and a Dewalt for$579 and a Delta for $599
The Delta's pretty nice and the only one that has aBiesemeyer type fence.
But, it may be over my budget.
Actually, I liked the Kobalt.
One problem, being a noob, is I don't know that I don't knowwhat I may want to do.
I will always be just a hobbyist.
At 67 I'm not looking to launch a new career.
My first project would be to build some shop cabinets.
My wife has been bugging me for some kind of computer desk

Then a new kitchen sink cabinet (non-standard size) and Ihave a rental that could use some kitchen cabinets.

Other than that, it would be for whatever urge hits me.

Thanks in advance for any input

[Frederick Skelly]

I was in a similar situation a few years back and moved up from a little bench top saw to a used Delta Contractor saw with a 52" Biesemeyer. Watch Craig's List and your local papers. I paid $400 for mine.

[Larry Foster]

Thanks for that tip.
That would have been a nice find

Just checked and found new in box Delta for $300

May see about it

[Andrew Howe]

I sold my big table saw and now have a retool track saw and a small Bosch table saw. I bought the dealt you mention, but took it back because none of the tables were as flat as my Bosch. I use an incra miter gauge and it works nice. I now have a smaller shop in basement

[scott spencer]

I would skip the smaller lightweight plastic saws. They have a very limited landing zone in front of the blade, making it more difficult to get the board settled before contacting the blade. The full size saws also tend to have belt driven induction motors that are much quieter, more reliable, and have more torque. The larger saws also sport a bunch more mass making them more stable. Not to be overlooked is the fact that the full size saws are more accepting of standard accessories, and are easier to upgrade features on...like a fence, wings, miter gauge, add a router table, etc....there's just a ton more growth potentil and generally better performance from a stationary saw.

[Larry Foster]

Scott, could you be more specific in what you mean by a "full size saw, please?
I was looking around and saw a Delta 36-6022 for $429 then a 36-725 for $599.
That one has a Besemeyer type fence.
Is that important?

[John TenEyck]

For what you said you want to build I think you need a TS with at least 24" rip capacity. Some of the portables will do that, but a contractor saw, or better, is much nicer to use if this is going to be your only TS. (I have 3.) I make a lot of large cabinets. I have a 52" rip fence, but admit I rarely use it for anything beyond 30" or so. The fence spans two TS's bolted side by side so that's why I needed the long fence. If I had only one saw a 36" fence would be plenty.

But the saw and fence are only part of the equation to working easily and safely. You have to have some place for the workpiece to land as it exists the saw. I have a bench located as a landing zone for lumber and panels coming off the table saw, and I use a roller stand or two on the infeed side when needed. If you don't have the space then a tracksaw may better fit your needs. Only you know the right direction that will best fit your needs.

John

[Larry Foster]

Thanks for that info, John.

All the saws that I mentioned above have a 30-32" rip capacity.
In the beginning, I would use roller stands for outfeed

[Larry Foster]

I see a lot of stuff on Biesemyer fences.
How important are these and what makes this kind of fence special?

[Peter Christensen]

Before the Biesemeyer fence came along in the 70's fences on small cabinet saws were for the most part crappy. They relied on the fence locking on the front and back tubular bars which didn't always align well. The Biesemeyer was an aftermarket fence that was very rigid and locked on the front rail. They also had the measuring tapes on them for easy and more accurate locating rather than measurements stamped in the guide bars of the day. They were popular and i guess when the patents ran out they became widely copied. There are other ways to make good fences so you can't automatically rule them out.

[Larry Foster]

Thanks for that info, Peter.
There's a ton of stuff on YouTube about making fences, both wood and metal.

Is it necessary?

[Peter Christensen]

You are welcome. I wasn't implying that you make a fence, just that if there isn't a Biesemeyer style on it don't automatically rule it out. It has to be stiff so it doesn't deflect, maintain its setting in relationship (squareness parallelism) to the blade and move feely so you don't have to bang it around. I also think it should be made such that it is easy to clamp a board to it to act as a short ripping fence, like those that come on European saws, and to be able to clamp sacrificial wood to for partially buried dado blades and angled blades for chamfers or bevels.

[Larry Foster]

I'll get booted off the board because I'm too dumb to qualify with all my dumb questions

[Peter Christensen]

Gottastart somewhere. Better a "dumb" question or two than lob off a few fingers. Any night schools around that teach basic woodworking?

[Thomas Marr]

If you're wanting to work mostly with sheet goods for now, grab a circular saw and make yourself a "track." Unless you're a perfectionist or professional, you can make some decent stuff with a "homemade" track saw if you take your time. Do a google search. Lot's of info out there.

[Ray Newman]

Find and read the on-line manuals and reviews for the saws you are contemplating. Make sure that the saws have a way of adjusting the miter gauge slots to be parallel to the blade. If the blade and miter gauge slots are not parallel, the saw will not cut true. Awhile back there was thread over on one the router forums about this and the saw purchased had no way of aligning the slots to the blade and was not cutting true.

Also, the industry standard for a miter gauge slot is 3/8x3/4". Some saws have a different sized slot and finding and using accessories such as feather boards, tennon jig, upgrade miter gauge etc. difficult

[Frederick Skelly]

I'll get booted off the board because I'm too dumb to qualify with all my dumb questions

Nope. Won't happen Larry. Just keep asking - it's a pleasure to help you learn and we're glad you're here.
Fred

[andy bessette]

Sell the Clarke and pickup a used Unisaw or Powermatic.

[Bruce Wrenn]

Peter, Biesemeyer's patent didn't run out. He rescinded it upon advice of attorneys. But no one caught it and continued to buy fences from Biesemeyer.

[Peter Christensen]

Peter, Biesemeyer's patent didn't run out. He rescinded it upon advice of attorneys. But no one caught it and continued to buy fences from Biesemeyer.


Well there you go. I didn't know that. A good fence all the same,,,,,,,,,,,,or it wouldn't be copied by so many. :)

[Larry Foster]

Any night schools around that teach basic woodworking?

The local vo-tech has a carpentry curriculum but that's construction based.

I am familiar with power tools, but, hand tools.

In my younger days, I built a few houses but those are different skills.
I don't believe we ever had a table saw on the job.
Possibly, a radial arm saw.

I'm not sure where I want to go with this so I'm keeping my options open., Thomas.

That's why I'm fussing so much over a table saw.
It seems that one can do so many things with a decent one


If you're wanting to work mostly with sheet goods for now,

[Larry Foster]

Thank you for your continued patience.

I've been reading reviews until I think I'm going cross-eyed.

Started watching Craigslist after it was suggested.

Preliminarily, I'm considering 4 saws.
The Kobalt KT 1015 and 3 Deltas.

The Delta 36-6022, 36-6020 and 36-725 which is about the top of my budget.
Still trying to figure the difference in those first two.

Couple things I saw in the Delta reviews were motor problems and that they don't take non-proprietary blades.

Although I don't need the saw yet, I'm getting anxious.
The money seems to be burning a hole in my pocket

[Frankie Hunt]

Preliminarily, I'm considering 4 saws.

The Kobalt KT 1015 and 3 Deltas.

The Delta 36-6022, 36-6020 and 36-725 which is about the top of my budget.


Of those choices the 36-725 DELTA 10" Contractor Saw is by far the best choice for a home shop. If you do not need portability (putting the saw in your truck to take to different job sites) then its best to avoid the portable saws. The contractors saw can be mobile inside your shop area, or portable somewhat with a truck.

The Contractors saw will have: ample top area, standard miter gauge slots, an induction motor that is more powerful and quieter, more stability because of size/weight etc....

That particular saw has a nice fence. If you want new, that saw would be a great choice.

A used saw can be a good deal, but it can also as easily be a bad deal! A new saw will not have been abused before you get it. It will have a warranty so that any defects can be resolved (probably none will arise) It will also have a riving knife (which is a wonderful safety feature) My first saw was craftsman contractors saw, it looked good. I eventually found out that the arbor was not true and causing a less than perfect cut. I could have found out if I had of put a dial indicator on the arbor at the time of purchase but I was much more green 40 years ago than now. Unless you know saws, I would suggest purchasing new.

The Delta 36-725 would be a fine choice.

[lowell holmes]

I have a 20 year old 10" Delta series 2000 that is solid. I changed the motor from 120 to 240 volts. It really does not bog down.

[Larry Foster]

Thanks, Frankie and Lowell.

I agree that the 36-725 seems like it would be a great saw for me.

Does the 13 amp motor make a difference?
All the other saws are 15 amp?

There are so many bad reviews of the 36-725 on the Lowes site; especially motor problems and quite a few horror stories on Delta's customer service.
I realize it's not a huge fortune but a pretty good investment for me.

I only have 110 in my garage.
Probably wouldn't be a huge deal getting 220

Frankie, I just noticed your sig on Border Collies.
I have 2.
Great dogs

[Frankie Hunt]

Does the 13 amp motor make a difference?
All the other saws are 15 amp?


Yes, but not as you expect. The 13 amp motor is an induction motor and will have more torque and will be more powerful than the 15 amp universal motors. (and quieter! and longer lasting too!)

If you are uncomfortable about the Delta reviews there are two other saws that you could consider:

The Ridgid 10 in. Cast Iron Table Saw item number R4512 from Home Depot.

The Grizzly G0771Z - 10" Hybrid Table Saw with T-Shaped Fence.

The Grizzly is the best of the 3 but it pushes your budget.
There is a lot to read into negative reviews. Who gives them, their expertise level, number of saws sold, etc. Its pretty easy to bash something now a days. So I read them with a grain of salt.

Any of those 3 saws can produce great work and will not be a limiting factor on your woodworking endeavors.

[Ray Newman]

You mentioned the Delta reviews. Back-In-The-Day, Delta was a US based company and had a well deserved, positive reputation for quality machines, customer service, parts, etc. Sad to say this, but today's Delta Machinery is "offshore" and not the same in terms of customer support, parts, etc....

[lowell holmes]

You mentioned the Delta reviews. Back-In-The-Day, Delta was a US based company and had a well deserved, positive reputation for quality machines, customer service, parts, etc. Sad to say this, but today's Delta Machinery is "offshore" and not the same in terms of customer support, parts, etc....

Maybe this is a good reason to buy used proven equipment. My 15 year old Delta is US made and rock solid and still going strong.

[Charles Lent]

Why buy new?

If you are careful and watch craigslist, you can get an older Delta Unisaw or Delta Contractor saw in good condition well within your budget, but you will probably have to go through it and clean it. They almost never break I bought my Mid 80's Unisaw for $650. It was running and almost no rust and came with a 54" Unifence. According to the previous owner I am the third owner of the saw. I spent about 3 hours cleaning the cabinet inside and out. Then did a complete lubrication. I use Johnsons Paste Wax, applied to the gears and ways with an old toothbrush. The surface of the wax dries and doesn't attract sawdust like grease and oil do, yet it lubricates very well. I also changed the arbor bearings and belts while I had it apart. I also bought a plastic cover for the open side to reduce the noise level and keep the sawdust in. Then I re-waxed the top and put it into use. I'll never need a better saw than this Unisaw, and my son will likely inherit it when I'm gone. I added a Wixey Digital Readout to the fence and I can set the fence position, make a rip cut, then move the fence away from that position and then back to the same readout position and rip a second board, then measure both with a dial micrometer and they will be within 0.003" inches of each other, Even with the bearing and belt replacement and the Wixey DRO I still have less than $1000 invested in the saw. My projects now always fit together perfectly as long as I don't make any cutting mistakes. I couldn't wish for a better saw. It's rock solid. I had mixed emotions about the Unifence because I had never used one, but I use a Biesmeier fence at work and had thought it was the best fence until getting the Unifence. A Unifence is just so much more universal than other fences and I now prefer it over the Biesmeier at work, which is on a 7.5 hp 12" Delta saw.

I bought a Delta 34-444 Contractor saw for my son that was missing the motor and the miter gauge for $150. I found an original Delta Contractor saw motor in almost new condition for $75. It came with a round pipe style original fence but no miter gauge. I found another fence off a newer Delta Contractor's saw that also came with two miter gauges and bought them for $25, then sold the fence alone for $50. We cleaned it up, waxed the gears and ways, and changed the belts. We left the bearings unchanged, because they sounded OK. This was 5 years ago and the saw is running fine for him. I believe that if it had a DRO on the fence, that it would prove to be just as accurate as my Unisaw. The big minus with a Contractor's table saw is that there is no sawdust containment at all on them. At least my Unisaw has an enclosed cabinet where most of the sawdust collects, and an access door in the front to get to it.



Charley

[Larry Foster]

Thanks everyone for continuing to patiently offer advice and suggestions.

I do like the idea of a warranty because I'm not terribly clever in general or, specifically, mechanically.

This quest started because my late father-in law has a decent Craftsman in his garage.
It hasn't been started in 12 or 13 years so I'm not sure if it still works and I don't have access to check it out.
I don't know the model because my wife and her 2 sisters refuse to discuss anything.
I offered to (possibly) buy it but none will talk about it.
The property has been sitting vacant for that long

I suppose it would be easier to make a decision if I decided if I just wanted something to putz around with, which is probably the case, or be a serious hobbyist

[Ray Newman]

Charles Lent mentioned the ol' Delta 34-444 Contractor's saw. Speaking from personal experience, the 34-444 that I started out with was bullet proof and a real workhorse. If I recall correctly, the OEM motor was 1.5 HP and when re-wired for 220 service, the performance dramatically improved.

[Larry Foster]

I've been keeping my eye on Craigslist the last couple days.
I'll keep that model in mind.
Thanks

[andy bessette]

...I do like the idea of a warranty...

When was the last time you heard of someone making a warranty claim on a table saw?

[Larry Foster]

When was the last time you heard of someone making a warranty claim on a table saw?

Me, never because I don't get out much.
:o

But, having read the reviews of the Delta on the Lowes site makes me think there must be some.

If I could find a good used saw at a good enough price, I'd grab it.
But, I'm not much of a tinkerer if something needs fixed.
I don't enjoy it and I'm not good at it.

As far as a new saw, I was looking at the reviews for the Dewalt DWE7491RS and it has much better reviews.
Any thoughts on this saw?

I need to get back to Lowes and put my hands on these saws

[Larry Foster]

I've 90% made a decision.
This gives me wiggle room and time to watch Craigslist and work on the building

I still have some time because my Lowes 20% off coupon is good until September 30.

But, if I buy new, I think it will be the Dewalt DWE7491RS.

I've read a ton (hundreds) of reviews on this saw and the Delta 36-725 and the Dewalt has very few 1 and 2 * ratings.

I don't expect to be any more than a hobbyist so I don't need a high end saw.
Unless I found a deal I couldn't pass up on a used one.

Thanks to everyone who offered advice and suggestions

[Peter Kuhlman]

I have that Dewalt saw as well as a full size cabinet saw. It really is quite impressive for the price. Compact, easy to move, stores in smallish area. It has plenty of power to rip 2X material with a good rip blade. I use Freud thin kerf blades on it and no complaints with power. No it is not as powerful as my 3HP cabinet saw but for ~$550 it is very useful. I use it for remodeling type stuff when I need to bring the saw to the work.

Issues are the table as said before is short so less space to start the cut which is kind of a pain. The fence is adjustable and holds its alignment quite well but as someone who took a chunk to the chest off an old contractors saw I am super cautious. I constantly check the fence to blade alignment to be sure I don't get kickback. That to me is more dangerous than the blade. Maybe with more usage my confidence in the saw fence will improve and I won't keep checking it.

A great partner to the Dewalt is a track saw and well worth purchasing at some point. Mine is a Festool TS55.

[Larry Foster]

Thanks for your feedback, Peter.

The 32" rip capacity was slightly more than the 30" on Delta.
The Delta does have an outfeed extension and the Dewalt doesn't but roller stands and/or horses could compensate for that as well as the infeed
I'll check out track saws

[Charles Lent]

Look carefully and measure the miter slots. I think you will find that the DeWalt is not an exact 3/4 X 3/8" size. I have a friend who had all kinds of trouble with this on his DeWalt, He was trying to fit an Incra I-Box jig to it.

Charley

[Larry Foster]

I've seen that mentioned, too, Charles.
Not sure if I'm remembering correctly but I think I remember seeing that there is a lip that the miter gauge slips under to hold it in.

I may go back to Lowes tomorrow and will check all these saws out a little better now that I think I know a little more

[Larry Foster]

I made a trip to Lowes today to look again at the 2 saws I'm considering.
(It's a 60+ mile round trip)

Wouldn't you know, the floor model for the Delta was gone so I could only check the Dewalt.

I'll check back to see if they have one before I head back, if possible

I didn't measure the miter slots but noticed that all the saws had slop with the gauges in the slots.
That may not be what you were referring, Charles.

BTW, Pittsburgh Craigslist has a lot of used Craftsman 10" saws.
The sellers are quite proud of them.
Lowest prices started around $200 and went up.

To me, I wouldn't buy a used one when I could get a brand new one for a little more.

[Charles Lent]

Delta made a series of Contractor Saws in the 34-444 series, so don't just look at this one model number. There is very little difference between them 34-444, 34-445, 34-446, etc. I'm not sure how many different models there were, but other than year of manufacture there seems to be very little difference. The 34-444 was the model that I found for my son. If you put several of these side by side you will probably see slight differences, but all are basically the same performance wise.

I have no idea where you are located, but there is a very clean looking one listed on www.ncwoodworker.net in the classified section. They are asking $350 for it, which I think is a little high, but if it's as good as the picture, it's worth it, if you are close enough. I drove 5 hours each way to get my son's saw and it was no where near as clean or complete as this one. https://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/classifieds.php?do=viewitem&itemid=2379 I don't know why the picture doesn't show.

Charley

[lowell holmes]

If you run across a 15 year old or older Delta saw, jump on it. They are solid saws with no vices. I have one with with the 30" table
attached to the right. I have a router plate mounted in it an can use as a router table as well.

My saw resembles the Delta 5000 series saw in the Lowes add. I have never regretted buying it. I do run it on 220v.

[Larry Foster]

I am north of Pittsburgh, Pa.

Thanks for that tip.
If any of these saws show up on Pittsburgh CL I'll look into them.

Right now, a ton of Craftsman

[Charles Lent]

Just like used cars, don't buy the model that is in every car lot. In this case, Craftsman. The harder ones to find are usually the better ones. I can remember looking for a pickup truck for my son, and everywhere we looked there were Chevy Luv pickups for sale used. It didn't take long to figure out why.

Charley

[Larry Foster]

As mentioned way above, my late father-in-law had a Craftsman which has been sitting in his garage idle for at least 13 years which I (conditionally) offered to buy.
But the 3 daughters, which includes my wife, (who get along fine) refuse to deal with any of this a number of years after their parents passing.

[Larry Foster]

Still shopping.
I saw this Delta 36-6020 on Lowes site
https://www.lowes.com/pd/DELTA-6000-Series-15-Amp-10-in-Carbide-Tipped-Table-Saw/999911217

Not a lot of reviews but it's $180 cheaper than than the Delta 725 yet still has a 30" rip capacity.

Still checking Craigslist, but this one may get added to the consideration list along with the Delta 725 and Dewalt DW 7491S.

As always, I appreciate any input

[andy bessette]

LF--looks like an imported toy.

[Larry Foster]

LOL.
Aren't they all imported?

I'm trying to figure out the difference between this and the Dewalt

[Larry Foster]

I may have found one answer.
The 36-6020 doesn't take dado blades

[Nick Decker]

Look carefully and measure the miter slots. I think you will find that the DeWalt is not an exact 3/4 X 3/8" size. I have a friend who had all kinds of trouble with this on his DeWalt, He was trying to fit an Incra I-Box jig to it.

Charley

Larry,

I had the Dewalt for a while, and the miter slots drove me nuts. They are (advertised as) standard 3/4 x 3/8" slots, but they are not consistently wide along their length. They're also a pretty "fat" 3/4".

I used an Incra miter sled with mine, which helped a lot with the small infeed distance problem. Gave me several more inches of surface to line up the cut. BUT, the inconsistent miter slot width made it next to impossible to adjust the miter bar on the sled so that it worked correctly. Very frustrating.

Other than that, I think it's a pretty good jobsite-type saw.

[Larry Foster]

Nick, thanks for that info.
Someone else mentioned it above.

It's hard to make a decision.
What you pointed out is important

The Delta has 20% bad reviews on the Lowes site while the Dewalt has 8%.