Future new lathe purchase

[Wes Ramsey]

Gents,

My wife is in the process of selling her business and has promised me a couple of shop upgrades for the work I've put into it over the last several years. After much pondering I've decided to focus my shop time more on round wood than flat. I enjoy both, but my heart is really into the art of turning. I have really thought about upgrading my old Delta 12x48 to a new Grizzly G0766 so I can turn the occasional giant piece, but the more I think about it the more I think I don't really need a lathe that big ALL the time and would be plenty happy with an outboard attachment on a smaller lathe. Y'all mind pointing me toward a few different models that might suit me?

- budget is probably around $3k for machine and accessories.
- Right now this is just a hobby that pays for itself when I want it to. In 10-15 years maybe it will be more than that and maybe not. I tend to
donate or gift most of my work unless I need to fund a new tool or supplies.
- I insist on a quality machine, but I can diagnose, fix and maintain just about anything. I just don't want to be working on it all the time.
- shaft size doesn't matter, but with a 1"x8tpi I wouldn't have to re-buy chucks and faceplates
- shop is on a slab and I won't need the lathe to be mobile.
- I have plenty of space. Current lathe is against the wall, but the new one will be perpendicular to the wall and far enough away from it that I can
work from any side.
- I'm 6'2"
- variable speed is a must; reeves, knobs or buttons, I don't care. I just don't want to dork with belts to change speed. Combination of variable
speed and belt changes for speed range changes would be okay.
- must have outboard turning capability
- swing-away tailstock a big plus
- prefer 18" or bigger. I've turned a few sub-16" platters in the gap on my current lathe and know that I sometimes need them a little bigger.
- sliding headstock a must. Pivoting headstock might be nice, but not a deal-breaker.
- 220v is okay.
- digital RPM readout would be nice.
- Don't want to buy used unless a stellar deal comes up for something local. I want to break it in myself :)
- I turn some bowls, but prefer hollow forms. I intend to get into deep hollowing so I can do larger pieces. I rarely do spindles.


Thanks y'all!

[John Keeton]

18" swing is going to put you in the upper tier of lathes, most all of which will have an 8tpi x 1.25" spindle, so you may need to start by calculating the cost of the switch over and deduct that from your overall budget.

[Steve Doerr]

Since you indicated 220 volt that means you will be getting a motor of 2hp or larger. These size motors have the 8tpi x 1.25". I would stay away from a reeves models as they wear belts quickly and don't have the capacity to slow down enough for large chunks of wood. I know you indicated 18", but the Jet 1642 EVS 2 hp model is a very good machine. From what others have said, some of the Grizzly machines are very good. My first lathe was a Grizzly GO632. It was early in their move to make lathes and was not very happy with it--it had the reeves drive and the headstock and tailstock did not match up. It is my understanding, based on other Creekers, that the GO733, GO766, and the GO800 have come a long way since I owned mine and are really good machines. I'm sure you can do a search on the site for more info or one of the owners of these machines will chime in. Good luck.

[Brice Rogers]

As John said, most lathes in the class that you are looking for use a 1-1/4x8 spindle thread. But you can buy an adapter that goes from the lathe to your 1" x 8 chuck. They start at ~$10 and probably go up to 30 or 40. My $10 one works fine. It adds about 1-1/2 " in length. While some may view that as a source of runout I haven't seen that to be a problem But the added length does help me work more easily on the chuck side of the wood.

[Dane Riley]

What kind of hollowing system needs to be considered. If articulated arm (which I recommend, you can build your own), bed length must be long. I need an 18" extension for my PM3520b. You need length for faceplate, screws, hollowform, boring bar when extracted (and extra length for long bars to reduce leverage disadvantage), collapsed articulated arm including socket piece, tailstock mount, and taistock. You can cheat this a little by moving the tailstock at the bottom of deep hollowforms when using your longest bar, and putting the tailstock halfway off the end.

[William McAnelly]

Check out the green monster group on this page it has a lot of info on grizzly lathes.( Community-Groups-Grizzly Green Monster Group) I think G0766 is the best lathe for the money.

[John K Jordan]

A lathe with a sliding headstock like the Jet 1642 and PM 3520 can accommodate larger pieces by sliding the headstock down to the far end. I have both and both are capable. Sliding the headstock to the end is good for hollowing too. If you get the bed extension an alternate mounting location is low on the legs to support the banjo, and it comes with a tool post extension. I don't remember for sure but I think it will let you swing 36 or 38".

What I can say about the PM is the extra mass is helpful. I mostly turn small and often tiny things but the 20" capacity of the PM is helpful when I need it. Way more power than I will probably ever need, too. I read recently that the new 3520b is on sale, probably to move them before the new 3520c is released. I bought a used one in excellent condition for within your budget and it came with the bed extension.

Based on discussions I've had with friends, "just say NO" to Reeves drives. The VFD based speed control is far superior and less problematic.

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

The 1 1/4 by 8tpi is a mechanical advantage for turning larger pieces. Most chucks have inserts so you just remove the insert and replace. Not too big of an investment. Getting new face plates, well if you buy new, they usually come with one. I never use a face plate for bowls any more, just drill the correct size recess with a forstner bit and expand into that. You may need a bigger chuck.....

robo hippy

[Thomas Canfield]

You did not mention the type of sharpening system and tools that you have currently. Turning larger pieces will require having some larger diameter bowl gouges ( 5/8" minimum) and a good sharpening system. Larger tool rests and even the J shape are needed for larger pieces also. I have the 3520B and keep telling myself that one day I am going to turn off the bed (can turn about 34" or so) but have not found the wood or nerve to do it and age is about to say don't need to go there. Finding a good used 3520B may get easier with the 3520C coming out and it is a good machine. I have the bed extension and no tilt-away and it seldom is a problem. I remove the tailstock only when using my hollowing system which is seldom. I do use the 1-1/4x1 adapters for some chucks and faceplates to allow using some on my Comet Midi 1" and have the bushing to allow using the 1-1/4 on the Comet also. It looked strange having a Stronghold chuck with #4 jaws in a recess on a 11.5"D plate on the 12"midi. I would think that you might consider about 2:1 split on you money, lathe:tools and upgrade as a minimum for extras, and then plan for addition costs in time as you progress. Turning bowls is less expensive than turning deep hollow forms for example and the hollowing tools could definitely be a future expense.

[david privett]

If you got 3 grand to spend, a griz G0766 would let you buy a lot of extras. I believe that all the bugs are worked out now. I have a early one I think it was # thirty in the run. Once I got the small problems out of the way it has been more than expected.

[Keith Buxton]

I also have the grizzly G0766 and love it for the price you can not beat it. had mine for about 2 year now and turn on It about 2 or 3 times a week. with no problems and you are close to Springfield and if you have a truck you can save delivery by pick it up at the warehouse

[Roger Chandler]

Another owner of a Grizzly G0766 here, and one with a lot of turning sessions on 3520b models over a few years. In 2015, I decided I was going to get another lathe, and had the ability to purchase a new PM 3520b, but after having owned an 18/47 model Grizzly G0698, and having turned a good bit on some different 3520b's, I decided to go with the G0766 Grizzly. It has more swing, more horsepower, and a longer bed than the 3520b. Folks who think that the upper end Grizzly's are not as good are mistaken!

My 0766 has been put through its paces, and I have not had any issues with pretty heavy usage over these last two years. Every time I turn, my joy gets renewed that I have a fine performing, powerful lathe with the same basic features of a 3520b at less than half the price. I am willing to do my own service, and that is where the difference comes in......PM will send out a service tech guy, but from what I have read on the forums, they don't always know precisely what they are doing, and have to come back, at times. Grizzly will give you full tech and parts support, for the life of the machine, and walk you through any repair over the phone, send you emails with repair pics and instructions, and any other type help you need, and if they cannot fix it under warranty, they will replace it.

I am not putting PM down, by any means, as I would recommend a 3520b any time, but I would also recommend a G0766 anytime, as it gives performance on par with a 3520b. Powermatic has the name as it relates to Asian made units.........the G0766, G0733 and the G0800 are also fine machines! The G0800 and the PM 3520b, 4224b are all made by the Harvey Industries Company in China, and have Taiwanese motor/inverter combos on them, and are cousins in the manufacturing process.

If you want the name, go for the PM 3520b, but you would not be sacrificing performance with the G0766. A side benefit is that the extra $1800 in your pocket can certainly help acquire many accessories and tools!

[Wes Ramsey]

Thanks for the responses guys! I've drooled over the G0766 a few times over the last couple years and as best I can tell it fits exactly what I'm looking for. Just wanted to see if there was something better I've overlooked.

I don't know for sure yet which hollowing system I'll go with. They all seem to have ups and downs, but I've never used any of them personally. Hopefully in the next year or so I'll have some opportunities to try a couple. May be another couple of years before I'm ready to buy.

I've only got a couple of chucks - a cheap one without an insert that I'll probably let go with the lathe and a Nova G3 with insert, but it may be a little small for the G0766. I've got 4-5 faceplates of different sizes. Won't hurt me much to change shaft sizes.

I have a Rikon SS grinder with the OEM wheels. I wanted to get some use from them and learn how to sharpen well before replacing with something better. I will probably upgrade to Norton wheels soon and eventually may go with CBN.

My tools should be fine. I have a good selection of Thompson gouges and a couple of their scrapers, but I will eventually invest in a few bigger tools. I'll probably send my Benjamin's Best down the road with the lathe. They're not bad, but since I've started using Thompson tools my expectations are a bit higher.

[John K Jordan]

..
I've only got a couple of chucks - a cheap one without an insert that I'll probably let go with the lathe ...

If you have the space you might consider keeping the second lathe (and the chuck). I keep at least two in the shop and the second is really useful when others come to learn or play. Also, if I have something set up on the primary lathe it is nice sometimes to leave it alone and use the second lathe, sometimes for things like making jam chucks and such.

Also, if there is ever a problem with the first lathe, you can keep playing. I did this once when a VFD died on one of my Jet 1642s.

These two boys are learning the skew and making beads and coves with a spindle gouge. This is the turning "alcove" in my shop, built specifically so I can position the lathes with walls behind them since I like to have everything within arm's reach. A lathe with a sliding head positioned against a short wall like the one on the right can easily be used outboard for larger swing.

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As for chucks, I've never found one too small for even my largest lathe. I stuck with Nova chucks, from the G3 to the Titan, but mostly Supernova/Supernova2. I may not use the G3 chucks on the biggest work but I certainly use them on medium and smaller work (which I prefer). But it might be different if you intend to only turn large.

JKJ

[Wes Ramsey]

John,

I really like your setup. I wouldn't mind having 2 lathes, but this one takes up too much real estate to be a spare. Plus the shaft has some slight runout and the tailstock takes some patience to get lined up just right as the ears that center it on the ways are worn some. No complaints tho - my wife's cousin tuned it up a bit and gave it and a couple tools to me when he upgraded about 3-4 years ago. I instantly fell in love with the sport and fully intend to find it and some starter tools a new home with another new turner when I upgrade.

Question for you though - do you ever find a need to be on the back side of the lathe? I've heard/read that it is ideal to have access to all sides of the lathe. Mine is against the wall and I sometimes have to pull the end of the lathe out to keep my tools from bumping the wall. Sometimes I think it might be handy to be able to stand behind the lathe, like when cutting the upper part of the wall inside of a calabash-style bowl. I like my lathe where it is and my tools are all within reach without moving or bending, but I would prefer to have better access to the tail end at least. With a sliding headstock and outboard rig that could be handy for bigger bowls.

[Brice Rogers]

Wes,

When I'm hollowing, I like working from the "backside" of the lathe. That way I can hold my tools close to my body and with my arms/shoulder kind of "tucked in" for control. If I didn't work from the backside, I would either want to straddle (sit on) the lathe bed (inconvenient without a stepstool) or would be holding my tool with my arms almost out straight - - probably the poorest position for decent control.

If space is an issue, some people have made roller systems that allow you to raise your lathe onto wheels, move it, and then lower it down. Google SMC threads as there are a lot of innovative ideas that have been posted.

[John K Jordan]

Question for you though - do you ever find a need to be on the back side of the lathe? I've heard/read that it is ideal to have access to all sides of the lathe. ...

Not really, everything I do on the lathe I can do fine from the front.

It is ideal to have access to all sides of the lathe IF the type of turning you do will benefit from it. As mentioned earlier, those who like to turn hollow forms sometimes like to stand at the very end of the lathe, depending on the equipment they use. Some people could probably work fine from one side of the lathe if they decided they wanted to. If I want to see the opposite upper inside I turn the lathe in reverse. Some people never turn the kinds of things I do and I'm sure their 360-deg access is fine for them. Some are just used to having full access around the lathe. I think all of it is fine - I don't know of any government lathe access enforcement officers.

I have learned to turn everything from one side and I turn a huge variety of things, thin spindles, tiny things, boxes, ornaments, small and large bowls, platters, off axis. Maybe I've learned to turn this way since I like having my tools within arm's reach AND since I started turning in a tight space. This is now very efficient for me, both in use of the space and in using the lathe. I have the lathes close to the wall but far enough away for clearance for the longer tools and the long PM banjo as well as the dust collection pickup nozzle. I also have several shelves and mount multiple lights on the wall and high above, all wired to come on with one switch. (In case you are not aware, there are several good technical reasons to use several smaller task lights rather than rely on broad, diffuse overhead lights like long fluorescent fixtures.)

The photos show my primary lathe and how I currently have things arranged. In addition to what is shown, two steps to the right are two cabinets (chucks, volatile chemical cabinet, misc tools) and a machinist's toolbox for many small tools such as vernier calipers and hones. Just behind where I stand is a workbench with shelves and shallow drawers below plus more tool storage (all of my smaller Hunter tools, digital calipers, etc.), again, within arm's reach. A drill press and floor-to-ceiling cabinet is in the corner behind me, bandsaw a few steps to the left. I have honed and refined this way of working over the last 15 years, changing and trying things until the way I have it now is right for me. In fact, when I designed my new shop I laid out the two walls specifically to let me have a turning area with two lathes set up like this (diagrams), walls on three sides but open across the front, double door to open when the weather is nice. :)

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If you have the opportunity, I suggest you try both ways and see what works best for you. Another option is to build a 1/2 length wall to put tools within arms reach but still have the entire back half of the lathe out in the open. If you slide the headstock halfway down the ways for large work you will have the best of both worlds.

In fact, in my last garage shop the "tool wall" behind the lathe was simply a piece of 4' wide 3/4" plywood leaning against the back of the radial arm saw! I put tools, sandpaper rolls, small shelves, and clipped task lights to the edges. Before I was done with the new shop I moved the bandsaw, lathe, and that piece of plywood to the new space so I could turn wood when taking a break from wiring and insulating. :)

One safety thing: if you decide to turn big things from the other side of the lathe you may want to buy a lathe equipped with or add a remote emergency panic button and idealy, speed and reverse controls. If a heavy blank suddenly goes out of control with the controls on the other side of the lathe from where you are working it's not a good situation.

JKJ

[Rich Colvin]

John,

I am a neat freak, and my shop isn't that clean. Do you actually use it ?

:)

Rich

[John K Jordan]

John,
I am a neat freak, and my shop isn't that clean. Do you actually use it ?
:)
Rich

Ha! I'd bet your shop wins the neat award! I am a card-carrying anti-neat freak, I think the technical term is "slob."

The picture was after redoing the tool wall and moving the lathe back into place. That's probably the last time it's had a good cleaning. I don't, in fact, get much turning time this time of the year but I'm preparing for a demo so I've been turning for a few days. There are 6" of shavings on the floor, the bandsaw table is a note-taking station covered with lists and drawings and stacks of blanks. The workbench between the two lathes is stacked a foot high with compasses and rulers, papers, carving tools, more stacks of blanks, chucks, cans of sanding sealer and naptha. Partially finished turning projects are waiting patiently in at least four chucks here and there. The sharpening bench is littered with a pile of lathe tools needing sharpening.

The rest of the shop is worse after back-to-back farm projects with no cleanup time between. I do have a path to the dust collector closet and there is enough room to sit in the chair in the office. Just barely! I'm glad I don't do this for a living or I'd be bankrupt. :p

JKJ

[William C Rogers]

I had my previous lathe against the wall. My new lathe is perpendicular to the wall. I like this much, much better. One of the reasons I did this was because I now have a sliding headstock and wanted the capability to work off the end doing bowls. It's also easier to clean up around the lathe.
In regard to lathes I have the Laguna 18-36. I looked at the Laguna, Jet, PM, and Grizzly. Each one has advantages and disadvantages. My criteria was design, capacity, price, and features. However the Laguna "fit" me. I'm 5'9" and the Laguna floor to spindle is 41-1/2". The others were higher. My previous lathe was a PM 90. At original configuration floor to spindle was 42". Whe I raised it to a 18" swing the floor to spindle height went to 45". I noticed the difference. I want to do bowls 16" and platters 16" and hollow forms up to 12" deep. If I wanted to do larger bowls or platters, Laguna offers a bed extension that will allow up to 32" swing. Now if I was 6'4" then the I would have needed riser blocks for the legs and a different lathe might have been a better choice.

[John K Jordan]

I had my previous lathe against the wall. My new lathe is perpendicular to the wall. I like this much, much better. One of the reasons I did this was because I now have a sliding headstock and wanted the capability to work off the end doing bowls. It's also easier to clean up around the lathe.

What is this cleanup thing you mention? :) For a lathe against the wall I found the big tubs from Walmart fit nicely and pushed tight against the wall catch almost everything that would normally fall under or behind the lathe.

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JKJ

[William C Rogers]

What is this cleanup thing you mention? :) For a lathe against the wall I found the big tubs from Walmart fit nicely and pushed tight against the wall catch almost everything that would normally fall under or behind the lathe.

365577

JKJ

Well John, I added ballast and pull out shelves between the legs, so the big bin really doesn't fit. It also didn't fit with the PM 90. It's also much easier to fetch the dropped tool without trying to find my reacher. Just my preference and it feels more open.
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[Dane Riley]

I added a remote stop after breaking the top off a hollowform while reaching for the shutoff and inadvertently moving the hollowing tool just a little. Should have done it sooner. I made my own using a metal electrical box, a paddle switch from Grizzly, a rare earth magnet, and wire. Using both sexes of spade lugs made inserting it in series with the on/off switch in the headstock easy. Every large lathe should have one.

[Larry Copas]

Mountain Home has a good AAW wood turning club. I bet one of the members would let you try their lathe if you can get set on a model.

I traveled to the club last year when they had David Ellsworth in for a demo and got acquainted with a couple of the members.

[Wes Ramsey]

Mountain Home has a good AAW wood turning club. I bet one of the members would let you try their lathe if you can get set on a model.

I traveled to the club last year when they had David Ellsworth in for a demo and got acquainted with a couple of the members.

Yes! OWT does have some talent and from what I remember they had mostly retired turners with money to spend on tools. I was a member for a while, but the meetings are in Lakeview, almost an hour's drive from town. With 2 boys having soccer games most Saturdays while school is in I almost never made the meetings. I did enjoy it and will join again probably next year if only just to get the newsletter. Really wanted to go to the Ellsworth demo, but we were busy that weekend.