Old style vs. new style bandsaws

[Aaron Mills]

I'm considering adding a bandsaw to my workshop and have been trying to figure out the major differences between older style 20" bandsaws such as the Delta 28-350 or the General 390 and the newer welded frame models offered by Laguna and MiniMax. It seems the old style have a much larger footprint, but aside from that, I can't really distinguish where I'd find benefits on either the new or the old style.

Obviously cutting capacity varies greatly depending on size, but I guess I'm just trying to figure out if there are any major performance differences between these two varieties of saws. In particular do the new style bandsaws have any improvements (aside from guides, or other upgrades that are interchangeable amongst bandsaws) that would justify the extra cost of purchasing them new versus seeking out a used 20" bandsaw?

Thanks,

Aaron

[Timo Christ]

Aside from the obvious power and capacity specs;
I think the older saws do not have rack + pinion guide/guard adjustment. Also check the table tilt mechanisms.
The steel frame saws are generally lighter, so would be easier to move. For my basement shop, a cast saw is just not compatible, but a 21" steel saw fits.
Old iron specialist Dev Emch recently posted general information about bringing old machines back to life.
Regards,
Timo

[Dev Emch]

That is a hard one to answer. Modern bandsaws use a frame of welded steel and if done right, this frame works well. Some folks feel that cast iron is superior here as it is more vibration absorbing and rigid. In some machines, I would tend to agree such as jointers and shapers. That is why I bought a german made hofmann shaper. Its 4500 pounds of cast iron from Bad Windsheim. But the bandsaw has neither the recipricating motion nor the high speed harmonic motion to truely benefit from all this iron. Furthermore, the blade is actually pretty inaccurate in its wondering cut. Your not concerned with accuracy to within thousandths of an inch. Wheel balance is something that is of interest. So are a good set of guides.

Personally, I would not touch a bandsaw under apox. 20 inches. The 18 inch to 20 inch range is just right for the vast majority of all work. These have slightly larger tables, often have tilt systems and have upgraded guards. They also have the larger motors and expanded under the guard capacity making them resaw miesters.

Having said all this, I do have a weak spot for the Yates American Snowflake bandsaw. These were made from about 1935 or so thru about 1941. After that, they used plate steel doors and did away with the cast aluminum snowflake doors.

The Y-20 snowflake is unsual. Not only is it an incredible bandsaw but its designers imparted the curves of a lovely lady in an evening dress. I am hard pressed to find a more shapely design. Is it superior to most new 20 inch saws? Maybe. But one look at this saw and you will be hooked.

Here is a URL of one of these saws that I moved to vegas a while back. Have a look and make up your own mind.

http://www.owwm.com/PhotoIndex/detail.asp?id=2310

Good Luck...

[lou sansone]

I think for bandsaws in the range you are speaking about either one will do you just fine. if you move into the more traditional size of 36" saws then I have to say the cast iron ones are just great. The one exception to that would be the large zimmerman saws ( now you will have to mortage you home and your friends home to pay for it ) that are part cast iron and part welded steel.

If you can swing it I vote for a nice 36 cast-iron-sure -- oliver , moak or tannewitz take your pick.

lou

[Aaron Mills]

So, from what I can gather between Lou and Dev's statements, there isn't much to be gained going with either a 20" cast iron bandsaw or a 16-20" welded steel frame. I'm not sure I have the need for a 36" bandsaw at the moment, and as but the Y-20 is one of the older, cast iron models that I'm hoping to come across.

Since it seems likely that I'll be purchasing used, more likely cast iron than welded steel, what potential problems should I be aware of? I'm assuming a consideration that should be made if buying used is the possible need to put in different guides, and maybe dropping in a larger motor for resawing, but are there any other considerations that could cause buying a used bandsaw to add up to the cost of a new, welded steel frame saw (~$2500)?

Thanks,

Aaron

[lou sansone]

hi aaron
I love the older cast iron machines, but you do have to be careful when buying them. I have been burned and recently very burned ( will be discussing this in another post ). Cast iron is great because it can be cast into very beautiful forms and the snow flake has to be right up there at the top in form and function. The welded steel saws just look like a cardboard box without any styling....

The down side of cast iron is that it can crack and break. Sometimes a machine will have been broken due to some issue, like being dropped or hit with something. Often people will try to repair the casting and sort of hide it, or not hide it, but over the years grime and dust cover the repair up. That repair may or may not be done right and may compormise the overall alighment of the machine. You might find a machine that has been repaired, but will not track perfect, or has some small vibration due to that repair.
Bottom line is you have to try to personally inspect the item as best as you can. Sometimes there is no inspection due to the type of auction or sale. Very often the machine is no longer under power and you really cant power it up... that the facts for a lot of used machinery... Now there are some very good machinery dealers out there, but you will definitly pay retail plus some extra for them.
I love to get a good deal on older machines, but I have just recently found out the hard way that even with a decent amount of experience one can get fooled.
best wishes
lou

[Alan DuBoff]

There is no finer old band saws than the Yates-American snowflakes, Y-30/Y-36. The Y-30 seems to be less of, and the fact that they will go into a standard garage is attractive for hobbyists.

These snowflakes are the best band saws manufactured, IMO, period.;)

[Andrew Joiner]

Alan, What about the snowflakes makes them best band saws manufactured?

Is it the more the look or the performance?

They do look cool.

[Charles Shenk]

69' Camero or Italian sports car? They will both get you there. If you want a lot of resaw capability in a smaller package then get a Euro saw (16" on my MM16), but if all you need to do is cut table legs and curves, get a cool older model American made 14" bandsaw with classic styling. Of course, this is all my opinion.

[Greg Cole]

Nothing like blowing the dust off the archives here... any time I see Dev's name I wonder what happened to him.:rolleyes:

[Pete Bradley]

Not sure if the original poster is even still reading, but the Delta 28-350 is a welded sheet metal machine, but it's extremely rigid. The sheet metal in the doors is heaver than the frames of some of the modern machines.

Pete

[Alan DuBoff]

Alan, What about the snowflakes makes them best band saws manufactured?

Is it the more the look or the performance?

They do look cool.
Andrew,

They do look cool, but aside from that it is pure performance. They are mostly 5HP direct drive machines (although some are 3HP), so they run smoothly. But they are also well designed and can handle up to 30"/36", so can actually function to rip stock, and are accurate enough that you could have only a band saw and be able to perform most all tasks that would normally require a table saw. They are 3 phase so require a converter, or 3 phase in your shop, but are made to endure through a manufacturing environment, so are hefty. Since they are direct drive, you can't replace the motor easily, but the motors are excellent and you most likely would not want to.

I have heard some will slow down to allow you to cut metal, but I'm not clear if they had gears/transmission or not, or if folks used a VFD for that.

They are built like a brick outhouse (PC correct version ;) ), and extremely well built. The best ones are from WWII era, IMO, and are ball bearing machines, some of the prior ones from various makers were babbit. Not a bit deal for some, but the ball bearings are more durable and will last much longer with less maintenance. Also, most of them have Louis Allis motors on them, some of the finest motors ever manufactured.

The guide on the YA is well designed (safety wise), and they have excellent cutting depth.

Although some of the other brands mentioned in this thread are excellent machines, they all pale in comparison to snowflake, IMO. But I own a couple Yates-American machines, so I could be biased. ;)

They occasionally come up on ebay, and often for for more than $2k, I think Gary Rogowski bought one last year at about $2300.

Watch auctions, you can find them as govie surplus often, the navy bought tons of them, as did other branches of military.

They weigh a LOT, and the Y-36 is about 9.5' tall. In fact, check height on any of the 36" saws, because when you add 2 3' wheels, that's 6', and add another 2' for cutting height (approx), some height for the base, they easily get over 9'. This makes them difficult to get into a typical garage without a LOT of contorting, and since they weigh so much (close to 4000# for the Y-36), it's really hard to flip them over on their side to slide in...(or get back in the vertical position).

There is a larger version that requires cutting a hole in the floor, I think it's a Y-42. If I recall correctly, those will pivot to cut angles, like a shipyard saw.

These saws when cleaned up, will out last your entire family. They are just quality saws.

That's what I can think of off the top of my head.

[Brian Weick]

I posted this a while back .... long story.. lets not go there..

anyways..
had the armature re- machined...new steel sleeve machined into the lower wheel hub and press fit with key way..
rewired all the way up from the motor ...(3hp/3ph 590 rpm ) to the spike filter and a new Yaskawa VFD with remote.
Tables have been blanched....
There were only 22 of these made and a rare find...

this is one "special" BS...;)

B.

[Dave MacArthur]

Nice saw, interested to know how it performs?... but this really deserves it's own thread, hey? This thread is 5 years old, and last post almost 2 years ago... Maybe a mod will split it off for you, I predict all sorts of folks posting about CI vs. steel saws like I came here to do.

[Van Huskey]

I agree with Dave, that saw certainly deserves a thread of its own. I was also ready to takle Old vs New