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john passek
08-02-2017, 4:02 PM
Hello Creekers,
it's been a while since I last posted.
I did a search but didn't really find anything that helps me.
I am looking for the best exterior Laserable materials (preferably Aluminum)
to use for small signs to be installed on wood carvings (Chainsaw carvings) and benches.
I may have an order for several hundred if I can find a good material that will stand up to
the elements.
I tried to convince my customer to go with Stainless Steel and Cermark but they want something with color.
I know about durablack but it only comes in Black.
I tried AlumaMark but it failed miserably.
I tried Encores ArmorCore but it also failed.
I also tried the Encore LaserCore Reverse which is suppose to be a good outdoor substrate but it too failed badly.
the reason I need laserable Materials is for ease of designing fine detailed Logos and other design features.
I guess if I really have to I'll try Rotary Plastic, can anyone tell me the best brand or series of material that has worked best for them.
Thanks in advance for any help.

vic casware
08-02-2017, 5:16 PM
Hi John, I'm the same, lots of enquiries for outdoor labels, I've been using reverse engravable plastics
I prefer rotary myself but the laser products are still a great option although after engraving and color filling
i usually add another layer of paint to cover the whole back surface just for extra protection.
Customers love the fact there are heaps of background colors and of course you can color the letters any color too.

John Lifer
08-02-2017, 5:39 PM
If you tried a laserable exterior acrylic and it didn't work, and the alumamark, (don't like the black exterior grade, didn't engrave well at all for me btw)
Then you really don't have a lot of choices.

Try a different brand of exterior grade? Gemini and Rowmark both make supposedly exterior grade that should hold up. I think at least one had a 3 yr guarantee? That's not really that long though.

Brass plate? It IS yellow (at least initially :-) )

I too would push towards a cermark on SS. I think that really is best long term item. maybe a thin slate or granite plate? can be CO2 engraved, but both do deteriorate outdoors.

Robert Bonenfant
08-02-2017, 6:02 PM
I use this product when creating outdoor signs With my Cnc Router - Not sure if it will work with a laser engraver.
This is used alot in the Sign industry for Exterior use - Its not cheap but its a great product
I would say pricing but when we use it, we buy it wholesale by the skid so prices will be alot different if you only need a few sheets.
http://www.kingplastic.com/products/king-colorcore/

john passek
08-02-2017, 6:16 PM
Hi Vic
Ya I usually paint the complete back, 2-3 coats. But I use the gold and it fades to a dark brown and just looks horrible, so I stopped using it except for interior use.
I do a lot of grave markers and have found that granite tile is the only thing that really stands up outside.

john passek
08-02-2017, 6:21 PM
I John
I do like some of the Gemini materials but I'm in Canada and Haven't found any suppliers that offer their products here and
Gemini will not ship to me.
I may have to find someone close to the boarder of Vancouver and just make a day trip to pick up some supplies.
My search continues.

Kev Williams
08-02-2017, 6:46 PM
Find all the plating shops in your area-

Ask them if they do "architectural class 1 anodizing"- if it takes them a minute to think up an answer, or they ask "what's that?", they don't... ;)

If you find one that does, ask them if "in color" is do-able.

I don't know much about it except that the architectural class 1 process is used on aluminum for buildings and other outdoor projects that are exposed to the elements 24-7. The sun and weather have very little effect on it. It's main enemy is high alkaline products like mortar or cement which can affect all anodizing, but unless you're mounting signs to brick walls, shouldn't be an issue :)

The trick is to find a place that can do this type of anodizing to aluminum sheet stock that you can cut or saw yourself after the fact...

john passek
08-02-2017, 7:12 PM
Hi Robert
Thanks for the tip, I just found a supplier that's not that far away from me, I'll see if they have something that will fit my usage.
I'm just a small basement shop so am limited in equipment to handle large sheets but maybe they have something I can work with.
Definitely a good lead.

john passek
08-02-2017, 7:14 PM
Hi Kev
I've never heard of that process before, I will see who and what is available in my zone.
Thanks

Keith Outten
08-02-2017, 7:48 PM
The very best material for exterior use IMO is Dupont Corian or some of the other acrylic based solid surface materials.

Order a few ten inch square sample pieces from Dupont, cut them into strips and then resaw them on your bandsaw to the final dimensions. You will have very inexpensive material that is supposed to last 50 years outside. It engraves extremely well and you can paint fill with any type of paint you prefer even the cheap stuff works fine. Sand the final surface on your ROS sander using 80 grit paper.

FWIW aluminum always corrodes when used outside in my neck of the woods no matter what type of coating is applied.

Robert Bonenfant
08-03-2017, 9:14 AM
I like the Corian idea - I wonder if corian is like granite and coutertop makers will throw away left overs and sell small cut off slabs. We have a granite countertop company close to us and we alway check out there cut off slabs. Nice 2'x4' slabs for 10-$50, If Corian is the same it would be a great way to make money off recyclables.

Keith Outten
08-03-2017, 10:28 AM
Some counter top shops are happy to give away their drops. I found one years ago and collected about 14,000 pounds of sink cutouts that I stacked behind my shop. It took me many years to use up and give away all of the drops...I make my own drops these days from my sign projects and i don't waste any of the material. Very small pieces are used to make handwriting pens for our Troops in the Middle East. Go to my picture gallery here, I have some pictures of engraved Corian that might help you make a decision.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=719

Bill George
08-03-2017, 12:10 PM
Some counter top shops are happy to give away their drops. I found one years ago and collected about 14,000 pounds of sink cutouts that I stacked behind my shop. It took me many years to use up and give away all of the drops...I make my own drops these days from my sign projects and i don't waste any of the material. Very small pieces are used to make handwriting pens for our Troops in the Middle East. Go to my picture gallery here, I have some pictures of engraved Corian that might help you make a decision.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/album.php?albumid=719

Keith I have found the same to be true here, they are happy to give away the drops but I offer to pay, so far they have said just go.
In the past I have cut with a carbide tipped table saw blade. Will a standard band saw blade be ok as its a lot more accessible. It engraves beautifully and color fill is so easy.

john passek
08-03-2017, 1:04 PM
Thanks Keith
I have been trying to find a shop that has cast offs but it seems Corian is very under utilized in my neck of the woods. and anything available is scooped up by other DIY.
It is a little thicker than what I need do you have experience with re sawing thicker pieces down to say 1/8" or 1/4" , I have cut up to 3/8" thick on my laser.

Keith Outten
08-03-2017, 3:19 PM
Bill, a standard band saw blade will cut Corian its just slower to cut. My new Lennox blade will cut 1/2" thick Corian like butter. Basically you use the same tools, blades and bits you use for woodworking you just slow down the feed rate and your blades will last almost as long as they do in wood.

John, I have been resawing 1/2" thick Corian for many years. I started making small thin badges first then branched out into other jobs that required thinner material. I try to keep a stack of 1/4" thick sheets in my inventory as well, you guys know that you can purchase Corian in 1/4" sheets but there are only a few colors available. The 1/4" thick sheets are 30" by 90" and anyone can purchase them without being a certified Corian installer. The 3/4" thick Corian is twice the price of 1/2" thick sheets.

You can laser engrave lithophanes from 1/4" thick solid surface material, white or off-white is the most popular for lithophanes. Mike Null engraved a lithophane awhile back, it was pretty impressive but it takes a lot of passes to get the depth just right. I have been trying to find the time to CNC Route the initial pass and then laser engrave the final passes in order to make the highest quality lithophane, even better then the CNC Routed ones. We had several conversations concerning this technique last year at Jim McGrews Aspire gathering. I don't think anyone has done one yet.

Once you start using solid surface material you will find out how versatile it is and how easy it is to work. In the long run I find that solid surface material is less expensive than engravers plastic for some jobs. I spray paint it, use an artists brush or just use a Q-Tip to color fill the engraved areas. Once the paint is dry sand off the excess and your done.

Keith Outten
08-03-2017, 3:25 PM
I would challenge anyone to come up with a CO2 laser engravable material that will last as long as solid surface material in exterior service.

Mike Null
08-03-2017, 4:46 PM
I share Keith's enthusiasm for Corian but it is so hard to get here in St. Louis that I typically tell my customers they'll have to find it. I don't know of any materials easier to work with than Corian and its clones.

Keith Outten
08-04-2017, 2:16 AM
http://solidsurface.com/ is a source for material that is suitable for small to large pieces of counter top for plaques and other projects and they ship.