Too Much Information.....TMI

[Rich Riddle]

I was looking through advertisements for auctions in the area and noticed one auction had a few items of interest.....and then after reading the advertisement a few times to ensure old eyes read correctly, it stated, "Terms of the sale are cash or check guaranteed with a credit card. All buyers must have a fingerprint on file (which we can take on sight (sic) if you have not done so already). This is for Cox Auctions in Ohio.

Who in the right mind would allow someone to take your fingerprint in order to do business at an auction, especially if you pay them cash for the transaction?

[Harold Balzonia]

I remember buying a house in 1996 and the escrow company insisted on a full set of fingerprints. I got pissed and asked if they wanted a blood test and a stool sample, as well, and it almost cost me the house. I caved because I had to...

i have bought every car I've ever owned with full cash money (no credit, no payments) and every dealer still forces me to have my credit checked. Without the credit check, they won't sell the car. I bought my kids a little 80cc ATV and the same thing happened!

Ive noticed that people under 40 have a much higher tolerance for this kind of invasion (forfeiture) of privacy. They just don't seem to be bothered by it. It's a tough thing for me to deal with, personally. I hate it.

but there is nothing I can do about it. If I want to get certain things done, I have to give myself up to it. It's a crazy society we've crafted in this regard and I am not a fan.

on a similar note, why do I seem to be the only human being left who actually deals in green cash money? Everyone I know uses their phone or a card these days. They spend $3.59 at a local taco shack and they whip out the card.... it's not my style...

[Stephen Tashiro]

What's the situation nowadays with birth certificates and fingerprints or foot prints? To get my driver's license renewed, I'm required to present my birth certificate. But birth certificates of my era didn't have fingerprints or footprints with them.

[Chuck Wintle]

I remember buying a house in 1996 and the escrow company insisted on a full set of fingerprints. I got pissed and asked if they wanted a blood test and a stool sample, as well, and it almost cost me the house. I caved because I had to...

i have bought every car I've ever owned with full cash money (no credit, no payments) and every dealer still forces me to have my credit checked. Without the credit check, they won't sell the car. I bought my kids a little 80cc ATV and the same thing happened!

Ive noticed that people under 40 have a much higher tolerance for this kind of invasion (forfeiture) of privacy. They just don't seem to be bothered by it. It's a tough thing for me to deal with, personally. I hate it.

but there is nothing I can do about it. If I want to get certain things done, I have to give myself up to it. It's a crazy society we've crafted in this regard and I am not a fan.

on a similar note, why do I seem to be the only human being left who actually deals in green cash money? Everyone I know uses their phone or a card these days. They spend $3.59 at a local taco shack and they whip out the card.... it's not my style...
I find myself going the card router for every purchase i make these days. I only need to swipe it, quick and easy.
My opinion on privacy is that it does not really exist any more, that it is just the illusion of privacy that remains,

[Mike Cutler]

I have to keep my finger prints on file with the Fed's.
Every 5 years they take another set.
I always ask if they've changed.:D

[Ole Anderson]

I am guessing that baby footprints are strictly hospital security protocol in case of an abduction and to aid in the case of a mixup, it does happen.

[Barry McFadden]

It drives me nuts when I'm in the drive-thru at Tim Horton's and as I watch the cars ahead of me pull up to the window and she hands them the debit machine. Some are fairly quick and some take forever to hand it back and then she hands them ONE COFFEE!!!! ... I feel like screaming.. "CARRY 2 BUCKS WITH YOU!!!" I like it when the debit and credit is down at the grocery store and the lineups are 6 deep at every register.. I move straight to the front with cash while everyone stands there wondering how to pay for their groceries!!

[Jim Becker]

I have to keep my finger prints on file with the Fed's.
Every 5 years they take another set.
I always ask if they've changed.:D
Ditto. LOL. Although our woodworking activities theoretically could cause blank spaces in the record... ;)

------

Barry...get used to it. We are very quickly moving to a cashless society. VISA/MC currently even has a program where they are rewarding some firms (primarily restaurants) to not accept cash; only VISA/MC. Personally, I rarely use cash, myself...just CC or electronic payment, like ApplePay. I hit the ATM about once every four months or so to restore my emergency stash to $100.

[Stan Calow]

Cash always works. After three hacking incidents, I only use my debit card for a couple of specific retailers for gas and groceries. Otherwise, I get cash at my banks ATMs for everything else.

I do remember a few years in the '70s when my bank required a thumbprint to cash a check. Implanted chips are on the way.

[John K Jordan]

..
on a similar note, why do I seem to be the only human being left who actually deals in green cash money?


It's cash for me for most local things around the farm, hay, buildings, equipment, whether $15 or $15K. I use credit card for online and card for SMC classifieds (PayPal), paid off in full every month.

Ain't no way I'm gonna give my fingerprints to an auction company. Anyone who wants to can do a credit check, they may be surprised.

The last fingerprints I HAD to provide were for a government Secret classification clearance. I could say more about that but then I'd have to kill you. :D

JKJ

[Steve Peterson]

on a similar note, why do I seem to be the only human being left who actually deals in green cash money? Everyone I know uses their phone or a card these days. They spend $3.59 at a local taco shack and they whip out the card.... it's not my style...

I don't understand how people can be so trusting of handing a credit card to a restaurant employee earning minimum wage and letting them walk away with it for 5 minutes. Seems like a recipe for credit card fraud. I try to always carry enough cash for the meal including a mix of 1's and 5's so I don't have to wait for change.

The OP must be at an auction with a lot of confiscated goods. Are they trying to screen out the riff raff? I am hesitant to give away my fingerprints for a cash purchase.

Steve

[Matt Meiser]

I don't understand how people can be so trusting of handing a credit card to a restaurant employee earning minimum wage and letting them walk away with it for 5 minutes. Seems like a recipe for credit card fraud. I try to always carry enough cash for the meal including a mix of 1's and 5's so I don't have to wait for change.

Because at most its a minor inconvenience to the cardholder. Sure, you can make the argument it costs everyone which is why the banks are working on fraud detection. We've had a few issues over the years, likely from the exact scenario you mention, but its never cost me a dime, and I can't remember the last time fraud detection didn't shut it down pre-authorization. At least 10 years. We've had more trouble with fraud detection stopping legitimate transactions, which simply requires a phone call and reswiping the card.

And I love ApplePay. Very fast, very secure from what I've seen unless someone steals my phone and my thumb.

[Rick Potter]

The news showed one company that now gives their employees the option of inserting a chip in their hand, to open security doors and operate the vending machines.

[Chuck Wintle]

The news showed one company that now gives their employees the option of inserting a chip in their hand, to open security doors and operate the vending machines.
and the sheeple will be compliant and trusting that all will be well. Have we become a dumbed down society? :(

[Bruce Page]

I have to keep my finger prints on file with the Fed's.
Every 5 years they take another set.
I always ask if they've changed.:D
Did the same for 35 years. I don't miss filling out the security questionnaires one bit, retirement is nice.

[Stan Calow]

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Steve Peterson http://www.sawmillcreek.org/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?p=2713260#post2713260)
I don't understand how people can be so trusting of handing a credit card to a restaurant employee earning minimum wage and letting them walk away with it for 5 minutes. Seems like a recipe for credit card fraud. I try to always carry enough cash for the meal including a mix of 1's and 5's so I don't have to wait for change.






Recent trip to the UK where we were told it is illegal there for them to take the card out of your sight. All the servers have a handheld device into which cards are inserted and transaction all done at the table. Smart.

[Brian Henderson]

It drives me nuts when I'm in the drive-thru at Tim Horton's and as I watch the cars ahead of me pull up to the window and she hands them the debit machine. Some are fairly quick and some take forever to hand it back and then she hands them ONE COFFEE!!!! ... I feel like screaming.. "CARRY 2 BUCKS WITH YOU!!!" I like it when the debit and credit is down at the grocery store and the lineups are 6 deep at every register.. I move straight to the front with cash while everyone stands there wondering how to pay for their groceries!!

Why? I never carry cash, it requires an extra step that I have to go to a bank or ATM to get the cash, then hand it to someone else. Why bother? The card stays with me all the time, no extra step required.

[Barry McFadden]

Why? I never carry cash, it requires an extra step that I have to go to a bank or ATM to get the cash, then hand it to someone else. Why bother? The card stays with me all the time, no extra step required.

Except when the Debit/Credit is down...then all the cashless people are complaining and scrambling trying to find a way to pay!!

[Tom Stenzel]

It drives me nuts when I'm in the drive-thru at Tim Horton's and as I watch the cars ahead of me pull up to the window and she hands them the debit machine. Some are fairly quick and some take forever to hand it back and then she hands them ONE COFFEE!!!! ... I feel like screaming.. "CARRY 2 BUCKS WITH YOU!!!" I like it when the debit and credit is down at the grocery store and the lineups are 6 deep at every register.. I move straight to the front with cash while everyone stands there wondering how to pay for their groceries!!

At least you have the good sense to go to Tim Hortons. My favorite since all the Big Boys have disappeared.

I can't count the number of times that swiping my card didn't work. Or the "our system is down" line I've heard a dozen times or more. Cash works.

I was buying some arrow fletching at Dick's a few weeks ago. The cashier wanted my name and phone number- for a cash sale. I said, " Who cares?". So worried about my info so they can 'target' us and give info to their trusted partners (code for Sell Everything We Know To Whoever Will Pay Us For It).

I'd continue with my rant but there's someone on my lawn, have to deal with it.

-Tom

[John K Jordan]

Recent trip to the UK where we were told it is illegal there for them to take the card out of your sight. All the servers have a handheld device into which cards are inserted and transaction all done at the table. Smart.

Everywhere I've been in Europe used chip cards requiring a PIN. They always handed you the reader and never touched your card. A transaction seldom took longer than about 15 seconds. Painless, but we still used cash for almost everything.

With a PIN required even stealing or copying the card won't do them much good. Maybe the US will catch up some day.

JKJ

[Yonak Hawkins]

and the sheeple will be compliant and trusting that all will be well. Have we become a dumbed down society? :(

..And you or your progeny will eventually comply if you want to live among people. The over-population of the world is making privacy a thing of the past.

[Harold Balzonia]

Harbor Freight and any number of other stores always ask for your phone number.... I have a standard fake number that I use for all those places.... it's one I can't forget so it works for me. But the cashiers always give me an eye roll....

[John K Jordan]

Harbor Freight and any number of other stores always ask for your phone number.... I have a standard fake number that I use for all those places.... it's one I can't forget so it works for me. But the cashiers always give me an eye roll....

I give a fake number too then deflect any issues with a quick "...and don't call after midnight!" BTW, a fake number also usually works at dentists and medical places who have no legitimate reason to get my SSN. When I question the reason for wanting the SSN I usually get is "That's just the way we've always done things."

JKJ

[Harold Balzonia]

I give a fake number too then deflect any issues with a quick "...and don't call after midnight!" BTW, a fake number also usually works at dentists and medical places who have no legitimate reason to get my SSN. When I question the reason for wanting the SSN I usually get is "That's just the way we've always done things."

JKJ


EXACTLY what I do! 555-55-5555 is my SS# if anyone wants to steal my identity....

[Jim Koepke]

i have bought every car I've ever owned with full cash money (no credit, no payments) and every dealer still forces me to have my credit checked. Without the credit check, they won't sell the car. I bought my kids a little 80cc ATV and the same thing happened!

I wonder if you opened a brief case full of stacks of cash and said, "I have your credit report right here," if they would still insist on running one. If so, would standing up and saying something about their competitor said he could have the same car in a day or two without a credit check would change their attitude.

If someone is paying cash, why the heck do they need a credit report?

jtk

[Harold Balzonia]

I wonder if you opened a brief case full of stacks of cash and said, "I have your credit report right here," if they would still insist on running one. If so, would standing up and saying something about their competitor said he could have the same car in a day or two without a credit check would change their attitude.

If someone is paying cash, why the heck do they need a credit report?

jtk

The answer I've gotten at each dealership is virtually the same, that it is "the law." I've never looked into exactly what law.... the dealerships claims they have to have a traceable record and proof of identity for every individual for every sale of a car and this is how they do it. Then they say something about 9/11, and the Oklahoma City bombing and how it's "just the law" now....

It's insane. Of course, I live in California so......

[Stan Calow]

The answer I've gotten at each dealership is virtually the same, that it is "the law." I've never looked into exactly what law.... the dealerships claims they have to have a traceable record and proof of identity for every individual for every sale of a car and this is how they do it. Then they say something about 9/11, and the Oklahoma City bombing and how it's "just the law" now....

It's insane. Of course, I live in California so......

I wrote to Attorney Generals Office in Missouri who said there was no such law in my state.

[Mel Fulks]

Sounds like dealership rule -law. Even when a buyer is paying cash they want a chance in finance office to try to persuade customer to finance. Need to keep percentages up.

[Mike Kreinhop]

Everyone I know uses their phone or a card these days. They spend $3.59 at a local taco shack and they whip out the card.... it's not my style...

I don't carry cash. Every place I frequent has the chip and pin machine for point of sale secure payment. I pay my credit card account before the due date and never carry credit card debt. I receive affinity points for using my card. I receive a store discount for using my card. I redeem the points for hotel stays throughout Europe. Other than that, it's likely just laziness.

[Brian Henderson]

Except when the Debit/Credit is down...then all the cashless people are complaining and scrambling trying to find a way to pay!!

I can't remember the last time I had that happen to me. In that situation, I simply go elsewhere. There is effectively no one that doesn't accept credit cards these days.

[Bob Turkovich]

I can't remember the last time I had that happen to me. In that situation, I simply go elsewhere. There is effectively no one that doesn't accept credit cards these days.
My local lumber source. Cash or personal check only.

[Ronald Blue]

All of my cards have chips and a pin number assigned although they haven't ever required it for any purchases. I think we have caught up. Not all retailers have chip readers but they are responsible if a card is fraudulent if they receive a fake.

[Mike Henderson]

With the chip in the card, it's pretty hard to fake. In the old days, the thief would scan the magnetic strip and then make a new card with the same information on the strip. But it's essentially impossible to copy the chip.

So the crooks have moved to the Internet where the chip doesn't do you any good. You have to put in your credit card number, which can be stolen. The fraud detection software is pretty good now and detects many of the fraud attempts. I have set up my card(s) so every time it's used, I get a message on my iPhone.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

What's the situation nowadays with birth certificates and fingerprints or foot prints? To get my driver's license renewed, I'm required to present my birth certificate. But birth certificates of my era didn't have fingerprints or footprints with them.

For the previous generation, many people didn't have birth certificates. All they had was an entry in a bible, or maybe a baptism certificate.

People used to start new identities by looking in the old papers (available at the library) for a baby who died about the same time they were born. Then, they'd request the birth certificate for that baby and use that to start a new life under a new identity.

Mike

[Jim Becker]

With a PIN required even stealing or copying the card won't do them much good. Maybe the US will catch up some day.



The story I've heard is that the card issuers in the US felt that their cardholders couldn't remember a PIN...despite the fact that most also have debit cards...that require a PIN. Go figure... I hope we do move from chip and signature to chip and PIN before too long purely for security reasons.

[Rick Potter]

I'll bet Harold has the same phone number as me.

555-1212

[Bruce Wrenn]

I can't remember the last time I had that happen to me. In that situation, I simply go elsewhere. There is effectively no one that doesn't accept credit cards these days.Generally for the first two weeks after a hurricane, cash is definitely KING! That's why I keep some on hand.

[Mike Henderson]

The story I've heard is that the card issuers in the US felt that their cardholders couldn't remember a PIN...despite the fact that most also have debit cards...that require a PIN. Go figure... I hope we do move from chip and signature to chip and PIN before too long purely for security reasons.

The claim that US customers could not remember a PIN is totally bogus. People remember their ATM PINs and other PINs. But I don't think that's why they chose not to go with a PIN.

The only advantage of the PIN is that if your card is lost or stolen, the thief cannot use it to make "in person" purchases because they don't know the PIN. But those kinds of fraud are extremely small and probably not worth the confusion that people might encounter with a PIN. No one has been able to come up with a way of verifying a card over the Internet with a PIN like you could with an "in person" transaction.

Instead of a PIN, the card has a CVV (card verification value) which is designed to test whether the person has the physical card.

Because of the security of the chip for "in person" transactions, most credit card fraud has moved to the Internet.

Also, most people have multiple credit cards and if they had to remember a PIN for each, they would tend to use the card for which they could remember the PIN (unless they can make all the PINs the same). The banks didn't want to have people be afraid to use their card because they weren't sure of the PIN for that card.

Mike

[John K Jordan]

The story I've heard is that the card issuers in the US felt that their cardholders couldn't remember a PIN...
The claim that US customers could not remember a PIN is totally bogus....
The banks didn't want to have people be afraid to use their card because they weren't sure of the PIN for that card.


Seems to me that "not sure of the PIN" is effectively the same thing as "can't remember a PIN".

The joke is the claim that Chip-and-Signature is as secure as Chip-and-PIN in the event of a stolen card. I can't remember EVER being asked to verify the "signature" I scribble with either pen or stylus.

JKJ

[Mike Henderson]

Seems to me that "not sure of the PIN" is effectively the same thing as "can't remember a PIN".

The joke is the claim that Chip-and-Signature is as secure as Chip-and-PIN in the event of a stolen card. I can't remember EVER being asked to verify the "signature" I scribble with either pen or stylus.

JKJ

You're right but the amount of fraud on account of lost or stolen cards is miniscule compared to the credit card fraud on the Internet.

First, if the owner recognizes that the card is missing they will cancel the card. Second, the credit card companies have your purchase history and flag purchases that are significantly out of the ordinary (they use this to flag suspect Internet purchases, also). I suppose the credit card companies decided that the loss from physically stolen cards was not worth having someone not use their card because they couldn't remember the PIN.

Mike

[John K Jordan]

First, if the owner recognizes that the card is missing they will cancel the card.

That is the part I would gladly memorize a PIN to avoid. Canceling the card is easy but the cleanup is time consuming. Someone got my wife's VISA once and immediately bought some gas and snacks. We got it canceled and lost no money but it took hours - find the phone number (we were on vacation with no internet access), call VISA, followup, and monitor just in case. But not quite as bad as the time a pick-pocket stole her phone in Paris.

JKJ

[Mike Henderson]

That is the part I would gladly memorize a PIN to avoid. Canceling the card is easy but the cleanup is time consuming. Someone got my wife's VISA once and immediately bought some gas and snacks. We got it canceled and lost no money but it took hours - find the phone number (we were on vacation with no internet access), call VISA, followup, and monitor just in case. But not quite as bad as the time a pick-pocket stole her phone in Paris.

JKJ

I'm pretty sure that once your card is stolen, with or without a PIN, the credit card company is going to cancel the card. To leave a valid card in the hands of someone who stole it would allow them to use the card on the Internet where they don't need a PIN.

Unless you have your credit card "registered" at a bunch of sites, getting a new card is not much of an issue. I had a card compromised and the credit card company expressed me a new card in two days. They offered it overnight it but I didn't need it that quickly.

I have a card that I use with web sites (such as a backup card for PayPal) and that card does not get used anywhere else (no "in person" usage). If that card is compromised I know it was a web site compromise, and if my "in person" card(s) are compromised, I don't have them on any web sites so the credit card company just has to send me a new card.

I always carry more than one "in person" cards so that if one is "refused" for any reason, I have a backup.

Mike

[Jerome Stanek]

Up until just 3 weeks ago one of our drug stores didn't accept credit cards.

[Matt Meiser]

My "signature" on most of the signature pads is either an X or a scribble because they are usually badly out of calibration and extremely ergonomically incorrect.

Yes, the cleanup is a pain. Numerous accounts need updating in our case since we have a lot of things on auto-pay through the credit card so we get Costco rewards.


Up until just 3 weeks ago one of our drug stores didn't accept credit cards.

I wouldn't have gone there then because I do my co-pays with a FSA card. Paying cash and getting reimbursed is harder than switching pharmacies.

[Jerome Stanek]

My "signature" on most of the signature pads is either an X or a scribble because they are usually badly out of calibration and extremely ergonomically incorrect.

Yes, the cleanup is a pain. Numerous accounts need updating in our case since we have a lot of things on auto-pay through the credit card so we get Costco rewards.



I wouldn't have gone there then because I do my co-pays with a FSA card. Paying cash and getting reimbursed is harder than switching pharmacies.

For me I do use the Pharmacy even though I own a lot of stock in another one. I can get my scripts for less than $20 for 3 months and that is without a prescription card that would cost me more as I could only get 1 month at a time with it

[Brian Henderson]

Generally for the first two weeks after a hurricane, cash is definitely KING! That's why I keep some on hand.

I'm not crazy enough to live in hurricane country. Or tornado alley for that matter. :)

[John K Jordan]

I'm not crazy enough to live in hurricane country. Or tornado alley for that matter. :)

Yeah, but.... what about a zombie apocalypse? Invasion by Canada? An asteroid strike?

JKJ

[Barry McFadden]

Yeah, but.... what about a zombie apocalypse? Invasion by Canada? An asteroid strike?

JKJ

Invasion by Canada!!!!!!....LOL.... Maybe in the winter we might invade Florida!!!!!

[Mike Henderson]

Invasion by Canada!!!!!!....LOL.... Maybe in the winter we might invade Florida!!!!!

Uhh, I think you do that every winter already.:)

Mike

[Barry McFadden]

Uhh, I think you do that every winter already.:)

Mike

LOL.....you're right.....

[Brian Henderson]

Yeah, but.... what about a zombie apocalypse? Invasion by Canada? An asteroid strike?

JKJ

I'll worry about those when they happen. Of course, when that happens, all of the ATMs will shut down, as will the banks, so it won't really matter, will it?

[Brian Elfert]

I never carry cash these days unless I know I will need cash. For better or for worse I charge everything and then pay the bill when it is due. I keep enough cash at at home for a last minute Craigslist purchase, or for use during a major power outage if one were to happen. The last time a major power outage happened (1999) most of the businesses were closed due to no power. One major grocery store was still running on generator, but half the coolers were empty due to no power. I bet they could still take cards since the registers were running. I still carried cash back then.

I really don't have a problem tracking spending when I use credit instead of cash and manage to pay before interest is due.

[Jim Becker]

Invasion by Canada!!!!!!....LOL.... Maybe in the winter we might invade Florida!!!!!

No "might" about it...just count the ratio of license plates that are registered "north" of the magic line.... :)

[Kev Williams]

I always keep 4 or 5 bucks with in case I need a bag of ice or something. Otherwise, plastic. Why? Because at any given time I can log onto my bank account and get a complete, itemized and categorized report of every dollar I've spent on gas, groceries, tax payments, medical, dental, oil changes, restaurants, take-out, movies, satellite TV, Netflix, phones, electric, water, sewer, insurance, registration fees-- going back 18 months!... Invaluable anytime, and especially around tax time. If I pay cash, then I have to keep track. Phooey on that!

As for paying, almost all places now let you swipe or insert the card beforehand, sign or punch in your pin, get receipt, go. It IS faster than the cashier can make change :)

[Barry McFadden]

It IS faster than the cashier can make change :)

Absolutly not true!!!!!..when I was working, a buddy and myself would go to a deli for lunch and we would go to 2 seperate cashires to pay ... he would always use a card and I would use cash and I would always be sitting down eating before he was finished...

[Mike Henderson]

Absolutely not true!!!!!..when I was working, a buddy and myself would go to a deli for lunch and we would go to 2 separate cashiers to pay ... he would always use a card and I would use cash and I would always be sitting down eating before he was finished...

Either is faster than the elderly matron who, after the clerk has finished scanning the goods, starts looking into her purse for her check book. Then, she doesn't have a pen, so the clerk has to give her a pen. This gets her to the point where she can start writing the check. Her writing is slow and she has to pause to ask the amount once again. Eventually, she finishes and signs the check.

But, then the clerk has to get ID information and she starts rummaging through her purse once again, eventually pulling out her driver's license. The clerk then has to copy the information and finish ringing up the sale.

For some reason, I always seem to get behind someone like that.:)

Mike

[That's one reason I always try to go through the self checkout line.]

[Jason Roehl]

Seems to me that "not sure of the PIN" is effectively the same thing as "can't remember a PIN".

The joke is the claim that Chip-and-Signature is as secure as Chip-and-PIN in the event of a stolen card. I can't remember EVER being asked to verify the "signature" I scribble with either pen or stylus.

JKJ

Right. Back in my contracting days, I made many a purchase with another contractor's personal card (for a job we were both working, with his full knowledge), and I would sign my own name at checkout. Never got questioned.

[Brian Elfert]

Absolutly not true!!!!!..when I was working, a buddy and myself would go to a deli for lunch and we would go to 2 seperate cashires to pay ... he would always use a card and I would use cash and I would always be sitting down eating before he was finished...

You're in Canada so I bet you are using chip cards with a PIN so it will be slower. Many places here in the USA are still swipe only for credit cards. I went out for lunch yesterday at a place that still uses the swipe instead of chip. I bet my swipe transaction was done before the drawer would have opened for a cash transaction. No signature required.

Why are new establishments still opening with POS systems that don't have chip card readers? I understand the cost to retrofit, but brand new equipment?

[Mike Henderson]

You're in Canada so I bet you are using chip cards with a PIN so it will be slower. Many places here in the USA are still swipe only for credit cards. I went out for lunch yesterday at a place that still uses the swipe instead of chip. I bet my swipe transaction was done before the drawer would have opened for a cash transaction. No signature required.

Why are new establishments still opening with POS systems that don't have chip card readers? I understand the cost to retrofit, but brand new equipment?
There's a big penalty for establishments that don't have chip readers (since October of last year, if I recall correctly). If the establishment only has a swipe terminal and the card is bogus, the establishment eats the fraud. If the establishment has a chip reader and the card is bogus, the bank eats the fraud.

You'd think with a couple of frauds it would pay to put in chip readers.

Mike

[Brian Elfert]

There's a big penalty for establishments that don't have chip readers (since October of last year, if I recall correctly). If the establishment only has a swipe terminal and the card is bogus, the establishment eats the fraud. If the establishment has a chip reader and the card is bogus, the bank eats the fraud.

You'd think with a couple of frauds it would pay to put in chip readers.


The deadline for the liability change was actually Oct 2015. Gas stations have until sometime in 2018 I believe. It looks like some stations are starting to put in new pumps with card readers that will eventually do chips.

If your average ticket is really small the cost of fraud is also likely to be small. A lunch place with an average ticket of $10 isn't likely to lose much to fraud. Most thieves aren't going to buy lunch with a stolen card, and if they do $10 isn't a big loss. Thieves usually buy fairly expensive stuff they can sell for cash. The owner should be putting chip readers in place in any case and no excuse to open a new lunch place with new POS systems that don't have a chip reader.

[Jim Becker]

Some businesses have new card machines that are capable of servicing chip cards as chip cards, but their card transaction processing firm doesn't support it yet. I find that to be pretty dumb, given the fraud liability exposure to the business, but they seem to shrug it off.

[Ronald Blue]

There's a big penalty for establishments that don't have chip readers (since October of last year, if I recall correctly). If the establishment only has a swipe terminal and the card is bogus, the establishment eats the fraud. If the establishment has a chip reader and the card is bogus, the bank eats the fraud.

You'd think with a couple of frauds it would pay to put in chip readers.

Mike

That's true to a point Mike. However I live in a semi rural area and many places which do not yet have chip readers also know their customers. I am guessing they may never have had a fraudulent card ran on them. I don't know the upgrade cost but they certainly do and may be waiting for the price to come down or for their current one to fail forcing an upgrade.

[Rod Sheridan]

I'm not crazy enough to live in hurricane country. Or tornado alley for that matter. :)

LOL Brian, it's all a matter of perspective.

When the US was just starting work on the Affordable Care Act, I was at a motorcycle rally in Watkins Glen NY. Sitting around the candle that was the fire substitute, I heard from the other side of the circle "Go ask Rod, he's sitting right there, he's Canadian".

My heart sank, I was sure it was going to be one of those healthcare or handgun questions, that would leave the other person thinking I was slightly left of Joseph Stalin.

Instead it was someone from Alabama wondering how I could possibly live in a place that had snow storms. I explained that during a storm, I simply stayed home, had an extra mug of tea and watched the snow fall. I explained that when it was done I cleaned out the driveway, walkway etc and life returned to normal. He thought it was a terrible place to live and I should move away.

My response was "Well at least when I get a storm my house doesn't blow into my next door neighbours pool like when you get a tornado".

I guess it's all what we're accustomed to..........Rod.

[Rod Sheridan]

Yeah, but.... what about a zombie apocalypse? Invasion by Canada? An asteroid strike?

JKJ

1) Zombie Apocalypse.........Happens every Saturday at the mall near my house.

2) Invasion by Canada..........We already did that, burned the White House, got the bumper sticker for the buggy, went home again.

3) An asteroid strike..............Already happened, gave you guys that beautiful Gulf Coast.


regards, Rod.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/car-dealership-credit-report-scams-and-the-patriot-act.html

It seems that you are NOT required to have a credit check, even if buying with cash (as in counting out $100 bills). Of course, a cash purchase causes other kinds of paperwork to be used, but, if they INSIST that you do a credit check and you take it to the top and they still insist, you might tell them to prepare to be paid in literal cash. My Father threatened this once and they pretty much pooped themselves to prevent him from doing exactly that. That was because they kept insisting about talking about financing and then asked him if his check was good.

They want the credit check for other reasons.

[Rich Riddle]

Andrew,

You have too approve any credit check for a purchase. Car dealers want credit checks because they charge fees to run your credit, many chare $400 to run your credit. When I purchased the truck for cash, the dealer was begging to run a credit check. When asked what the fee was to run it, he finally admitted it was $250. It's pure profit.

[Brian Elfert]

I have never been charged a credit check fee when buying a car. Any dealer who tried that would have an extra car on their lot to sell. My credit union doesn't charge any fees for an auto loan and the rates usually beat the dealer.

[Harry Hagan]

Cash always works. After three hacking incidents, I only use my debit card for a couple of specific retailers for gas and groceries. Otherwise, I get cash at my banks ATMs for everything else.

I do remember a few years in the '70s when my bank required a thumbprint to cash a check. Implanted chips are on the way.


Try renting something from the Home Depot Rental Store. Credit card only, no cash transactions!

[Brian Henderson]

Try renting something from the Home Depot Rental Store. Credit card only, no cash transactions!

That's because you're not really paying for the tool, you are providing them a means to charge you if you take off with the tool. I'm sure you can pay for the actual rental fee in cash if you want and just have that credit card on file.

[Harry Hagan]

That's because you're not really paying for the tool, you are providing them a means to charge you if you take off with the tool. I'm sure you can pay for the actual rental fee in cash if you want and just have that credit card on file.

Nope. Not at my store. Credit card ONLY!

[Noah Magnuson]

I use the credit cards for everything I possibly can. I will never see 1.5% on my checking account, but I get it on everything I buy. It adds up. I pay it off a few times a month. I believe my wife and I have been hacked twice over the years and it was zero hassle to get it removed.

I don't like the concept of electronic or even paper money in general and would prefer coins of all denominations (gold, silver, platinum up to $1000 etc.), but since everything including your checking, savings, credit line etc. are all just electronic records somewhere I have no issue using the card. It adds certain protections to the purchase and in today's society makes the transaction easier in most cases (My Lee Valley order posts immediately).

I have also handed all of my info to the gov't for my career and they have lost it multiple times, so I just don't worry so much as it accomplishes nothing.

I will never get a chip (implant) though, ever. :)

[Bert Kemp]

I get a text alert every time I use my debit card if someone steels my numbers and trys to use it I'm notified immediately.
Noah as far as chips go you may not have a choice. Stores that accept chips are now only accepting chips and if you don't have a chip you have to stand there and keep swiping till it accepts the swipe. I had to swipe 10 times the first time that happened. Also your new replacement cards will most likely come with a chip.

[Johanna Johanson]

Do you even have to ask if this is a dumbed down society!

I am amazed at the number of people who cheerfully share personal information with the world - just look at the kinds of things posted on Facebook. I often have to remind my granddaughter that there are things that should never, ever be posted.

[Noah Magnuson]

...
Noah as far as chips go you may not have a choice. Stores that accept chips are now only accepting chips and if you don't have a chip you have to stand there and keep swiping till it accepts the swipe. I had to swipe 10 times the first time that happened. Also your new replacement cards will most likely come with a chip.

Lol. I mean getting myself chipped (implant). Believe it or not, people are doing that willingly I of course have chipped cards and didn't even think about the confusion.It is a good thing (I think).

[Chris Hachet]

I have never been charged a credit check fee when buying a car. Any dealer who tried that would have an extra car on their lot to sell. My credit union doesn't charge any fees for an auto loan and the rates usually beat the dealer.Likewise. I would never pay to run a credit check...

[Chris Hachet]

I was looking through advertisements for auctions in the area and noticed one auction had a few items of interest.....and then after reading the advertisement a few times to ensure old eyes read correctly, it stated, "Terms of the sale are cash or check guaranteed with a credit card. All buyers must have a fingerprint on file (which we can take on sight (sic) if you have not done so already). This is for Cox Auctions in Ohio.

Who in the right mind would allow someone to take your fingerprint in order to do business at an auction, especially if you pay them cash for the transaction?Possibly they are worried about people with criminal records buying things? Seems very odd...

[Rich Engelhardt]

I have no finger prints. :)

They tried to take mine just the other day for a CHL and they're all worn off!

Oops - forgot to add....the Sheriff's office didn't accept credit cards or cash bank check or money order only as payment for the CHL.