Wide Belt Sanders

[Darrell Bade]

Did a search but came up empty.

After a few setbacks I finally have the $ for a wide belt sander. Was going to buy the 16" that Grizzly used to sell but it was discontinued before I got the $ together. That leaves me with the following choices.

The recently introduced Grizzly G0819 15". Looks like a good machine but can't really find any reviews of it.
The North State DW-16P 16"
The Powermatic 1632

The North State and Powermatic look like the same machine which also look like the discontinued Grizzly. The new Grizzly is made differently with 4 posts in the base. All are 3 roller machines with a platen.

I also priced a Time Saver but it is just too expensive for my home shop.

So does anyone have any of these machines? Would really like to hear from someone with the Grizzly G0819.

[David Kumm]

In a perfect world you would want a combination head, 4" roller, steel or hard rubber, and a padded platen that can be removed or lifted out of the way. A head with two smaller diamater rollers that are not designed to flatten ( calibration sand ) are really platen only heads and designed to finish sand only and generally will not flat sand. Electric eye tracking is also better than pneumatic if you can get that at your price point. Keep your eyes open for a 24" SCMI or Minimax in good used condition. You need to handle at least ten hp three phase if you go that route. Dave

[Martin Wasner]

What's your budget?
What do you have available for power?
How much space do you have?

I ask, because 37" is a pretty common size and can be found pretty reasonably used.

Have you looked at Apex sanders? Timesavers wanted another $10k for literally the same machine I got from Apex.

[lowell holmes]

You might visit a cabinet shop and find out what they use.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Make sure you look at the ShopFox line. Essentially Grizzly, but they have a few unique Wide Belts.

[Albert Lee]

Did a search but came up empty.

After a few setbacks I finally have the $ for a wide belt sander. Was going to buy the 16" that Grizzly used to sell but it was discontinued before I got the $ together. That leaves me with the following choices.

The recently introduced Grizzly G0819 15". Looks like a good machine but can't really find any reviews of it.
The North State DW-16P 16"
The Powermatic 1632

The North State and Powermatic look like the same machine which also look like the discontinued Grizzly. The new Grizzly is made differently with 4 posts in the base. All are 3 roller machines with a platen.

I also priced a Time Saver but it is just too expensive for my home shop.

So does anyone have any of these machines? Would really like to hear from someone with the Grizzly G0819.

I cosindered Powermatic once, but it was too costly for what it is, and I dont need new, for the price of the powermatic, there are plenty second hand machine available on the market.

Do you have space for a true wide belt sander? say 37"+ ? I used to have an Italian 12" sander (cant remember the name but pretty old) but I find it too limiting. I moved to a 37" SCM then my current SCM 43".

As David pointed out, you would want a dual head machine with platten.. etc. minimum is 15hp/3 phase if you go this route. the 43" I have in my workshop is a 25hp.

Things to watchout for with the widebelt sander is that it often means you are not only buying the sander, unless for some reason you have
1. a huge extractor installed already with proper ducting.
2. sufficient compressed air and compressed air line installed.
3. and plenty of power available, 3 phase that is, at least 63 amp+, you may also want to consider the inrush current, typically 6-7 times the full load current.

otherwise you need to invest in all 3 aspect as I found out when I purchased my wide belt sander.

[Kevin Jenness]

All the machines you mention are cantilever designs which means they are inherently inaccurate. If you want to sand wider panels one side at a time I suspect you will be disappointed. Accuracy in a wide belt requires a rigid frame.

[Travis Porter]

I am a hobbyist and have a timesaver speedsander 37".

it is not a high end unit, but for what I do and have used it for, it does a great job and has been a gigantic upgrade from a performax 16/32 for me. It is 3 phase, but I think they offer it in single phase as well. I would recommend 3 phase if you have the resources.

i got it used and for probably what it would cost for a new 15" unit.

good luck.

[Jim Andrew]

I have the old G9983 Grizzly 15", and while it is no 37" sander, it is a HUGE improvement over a hand held belt sander. I find it even flattens panels as I sand. That said, while it does not sand perfectly, it does pretty well. I figured the new model has worked out a few bugs of the old model.

[Martin Wasner]

I am a hobbyist and have a timesaver speedsander 37".

it is not a high end unit, but for what I do and have used it for, it does a great job and has been a gigantic upgrade from a performax 16/32 for me. It is 3 phase, but I think they offer it in single phase as well. I would recommend 3 phase if you have the resources.

i got it used and for probably what it would cost for a new 15" unit.

good luck.


I had one of these sanders. They're a good value. Not an awesome sander, but you get a lot for your money. I'd recommend it no problem, even for a small shop starting out. I sold mine for about what I paid for it, and I ran it pretty hard. Mine was 7-1/2hp 1ph

Another local shop just bought one of these (http://ezsanders.com/woodworking-sander) and it seems to be a pretty good unit as well.

[Mike Heidrick]

Albert, wanted to thank you for outlining the infrastructure needed to really support a widebelt. I have much of it in place. What size run duct wise do you have to your widebelt? Ill have an 8" drop to that area connected to my 10" main trunk - nordfab Cyclone is 12" inlet. No widebelt yet but its on.my list!!

[Albert Lee]

Albert, wanted to thank you for outlining the infrastructure needed to really support a widebelt. I have much of it in place. What size run duct wise do you have to your widebelt? Ill have an 8" drop to that area connected to my 10" main trunk - nordfab Cyclone is 12" inlet. No widebelt yet but its on.my list!!

My pleasure Mike, my mains is 10", but given the low ceiling I have(2700mm or 106 inch) it was a mission itself to connect to the mains. see pics below.

you'll be fine with your Nordfab cyclone! I am still clinging onto the baghouse which I paid $600 for. its matter of time before I invest into something larger/better.

365224

365225

365226

[Mike Heidrick]

My cyclone is grizzly 10hp at $1400 used plus freight and some missing parts and a lot of elbow grease. I just got lucky on a pro shop closing in town and got his nordfab lot before anyone else. Not many folks here recognize it.

Wow you did luck out height wise. Whew. Geeat idea on the stacked wyes. I am hoping my 8" drop will convert to whatever number of ports i will need.

A SCM would be a dream for me. They are so nice. I will most likely end up with a Speedsaver or Grizzl or Shopfox. Under 10 grand definitely. I do think i am not going less than 37" if i can help it. I have a dual 26" double drum now grizzly that will help me be patient and not sacrifice. We will see. Whole lot of want for now. Lots more work to do.

Thank yoy again for the pictures. Your shop is so awesome.

All you guys have amazing setups. Thank you for sharing them here and all over the forums. REALLY helps me as a non pro learn whats good and important. I am on shoulders of giants.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

All the machines you mention are cantilever designs which means they are inherently inaccurate. If you want to sand wider panels one side at a time I suspect you will be disappointed. Accuracy in a wide belt requires a rigid frame.

I was pleasantly surprised with my Powermatic 16/32. I found the flex to be minimum.
I upgraded to a 20" ShopFox only for the motorized lift. The position of the lift on the PM was too just low for my back.

I've never missed the platen.

[Albert Lee]

wow that is a steal for a 10hp cyclone! Nordfab makes very good extractor. amazing deals to be had with these industrial premises closing down...

It took me a while and some experiment to sort out the extraction layout from the sander to the mains. yes its not ideal in terms of extraction due to the number of wyes and all but I cant get it done otherwise.

I bought my 35+ year old 37" SCM for $1000 from a boat builder and when I upgraded to a 43" I sold it for $2000 to a joiner shop.

SCM sander are solid as rock, and they carry parts as well (I needed a plastic part for the 35+ old sander and SCM still has it!). I am so happy with my SCM sander I dont think I will ever switch to another brand.

Remember to post your photos oneday! my shop normally dont look this clean....

[Darrell Bade]

Some interesting thoughts and opinions. I don't have the space for a big true wide belt sander as someone mentioned which is why I am looking at what I am. I did plan for a unit like the ones I mentioned and have a 50 Amp Outlet, Dust Collector Drop and Air Line Drop in the space in the shop I had planned for the sander. I was going to buy a drum sander but I just can't convince myself I would be happy with it. I think one of the sanders like I have in mind would be a much better option although I agree that it would not be as good as a 37" wide belt. I have to buy what fits in and is the best compromise.

Jim- I agree, might not be as perfect as a big boy, but should do what I need

Mike - I looked at the Shopfox again after reading your post. The W1709 does have a lot of nice features. I could probably live with the 20" width for my needs. I had ruled it out because of not having a platen and that is a must have in my opinion. I found your comment that you haven't missed it after having a machine with it first interesting. Do you use you sander for finish sanding before finishing with a ROS? Maybe I am putting to much emphasis on the machine having a platen.

[David Kumm]

Any chance you are willing to buy used and spend the difference on an RPC? Pretty nice 24" sanders come up for <4K and an rpc would be 1000-2000. Opens up a whole new world of choices. Keep in mind none of these sanders will handle plywood unless you put shop made veneer on it. These are hardwood only machines from a practical standpoint. Dave

[Kevin Weller Bloomfield,PA]

I bought a used G9983 sander a couple years ago. The price was excellent and I do not have the space for 37" or larger or 3 phase. If I had to do it over again I would go with a 24" belt sander for the ease of sanding raised panel doors. That being said for what I paid and what I got I love it. I have sanded some 26" panels and it handled them well. The machine itself is simple without a lot of electronics. I do like the couple of changes on the new model Grizzly is carrying now. The conveyor bed will be more stable with the 4 post design. I wish the would have put variable speed control on it though. All in all I am glad I bought it.

[Rick Fisher]

I agree with David Kumm.. In 2009 I bought a 2001 model 25" SCM Sandya Win for $4500 I sold it last month for $4000 .. It was hobby used for the last 7 years and really wasn't any more "used" than it was in 2009.

I found that wide belt to be easy starting for the phase converter.

[Jim Andrew]

Problem is, unless you are building the same item over and over again, you run into things that will not fit through your sander if you get a 24", without the open end or the large widebelt. For a small one man shop, I find the open end sander a huge improvement over a drum sander. Was familiar with the speedsander, but do not have enough power or room for such a beast. Does take twice as long to sand a wide piece in a small open end, because you have to reverse the board and run it through the second time to get it sanded. Using a widebelt sander is not a quick process anyway, but compared to sanding it down by hand, is like light speed.

[Dave Cav]

Check out Safety Speed Cut. They make a good 36 x 60" widebelt with a 10 HP single phase motor. I have had one for four years and I am completely satisfied with it.

[Eric Keller]

a couple of years ago, I went to the timesavers factory and got a tour. We were trying to set up something a lot more precise than most woodworking, but I was really impressed. I know they are a lot of money though.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Do you use you sander for finish sanding before finishing with a ROS?

After finishing with 150 belt, a quick application of the ROS is necessary for a really fine finish.

I get the theory of a Platen, but just couldn't see much difference. I never used it on my Powermatic Open End machine.

[Andrew J. Coholic]

After finishing with 150 belt, a quick application of the ROS is necessary for a really fine finish.

I get the theory of a Platen, but just couldn't see much difference. I never used it on my Powermatic Open End machine.

Having used a 37"x60 dual head machine with no platen between the large rubber coated rollers (Sicar) for about 20 years, and recently (the past nearly 7) a dual drum/platen in between (Cantek) I see a huge difference.

I normally run 120 to 150 on the machine, with a 60 or 80 if I need to level some large table top etc. Mainly 120 and then on to hand sanding with ROS.

With the platen, set just about level with the rollers (maybe a few thou down) there is no noticable ripple. With just the drums, there was always a bit of ripple. Im sold on the platen. It was an option on the Sicar but my father needed the machine ASAP a the time and took it off the showroom floor without.

[Martin Wasner]

Having used a 37"x60 dual head machine with no platen between the large rubber coated rollers (Sicar) for about 20 years, and recently (the past nearly 7) a dual drum/platen in between (Cantek) I see a huge difference.

I normally run 120 to 150 on the machine, with a 60 or 80 if I need to level some large table top etc. Mainly 120 and then on to hand sanding with ROS.

With the platen, set just about level with the rollers (maybe a few thou down) there is no noticable ripple. With just the drums, there was always a bit of ripple. Im sold on the platen. It was an option on the Sicar but my father needed the machine ASAP a the time and took it off the showroom floor without.

I would not purchase a widebelt without a platen. We do 120 on the first drum, and 180 in the combo head, the scratch just melts under an orbital. We murder the belts running it the way we do now though.

Knowing what I know now, I'm not sure I'd buy less than three heads again. Space, power, dust collection and capital didn't allow it so I got my current machine. BUT, my needs are way outside of those not doing it commercially and abusing abrasives to get things doing l done.

Head speed is critical to getting a quality scratch too. I think on the combo head it's 4800 fpm. I'm fuzzy on the numbers, but I want to say my speedsander was a bit more than half that speed.

[Rick Fisher]

I also agree that a platen is a must on a wide belt sander. I had a General as my first wide belt that had no platen, the SCM with a platen was night and day.

I would agree with Jim that with a 25" wide sander I came across things I couldn't sand, and did upgrade to a 37" this year. The reality however is that 98% of the time I could use it and it was a huge asset. The new machine has a pneumatic platen with an anti dubbing sensor. It lifts the plate as the board comes in and lowers it ( ideally ) right on the edge. The idea is it doesn't round the corner on the way in or the way out.. So far I haven't sanded any veneer, but I've played with it a bit, and its a neat option..