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Wade Lippman
07-31-2017, 12:26 PM
My son is selling his $3,000 rowing shell and wants cash. (it is not on Ebay) The buyer says that is impractical and suggests Venmo.
On their website Venmo says it is intended for transactions among friends. It is not secure for transactions between strangers. So that is out.

How about Paypal? That is obviously for transactions between strangers. Yes?

Once he is paid, does he have the money with complete security, or can the buyer somehow dispute it?
(boat is sold "as is", so once the buyer picks it up, it is supposed to be entirely his problem)

Mike Henderson
07-31-2017, 12:40 PM
If the PayPal payment is made as "Friends and Family" it cannot be disputed in PayPal. If the PayPal payment is made as payment for goods, it can be disputed.

But $3,000 in cash - perhaps in $100 bills - is that that big or difficult. And it's easy to draw $3,000 in cash out of a bank. It's only when the cash is over $10,000 that there might be some extra paperwork.

Mike

Bob Bouis
07-31-2017, 12:41 PM
Paypal can be disputed, and even if it can't (supposedly) for certain transfers, the credit card or bank transfer that was used to pay it can still be disputed. Cash or bust.

Sam Murdoch
07-31-2017, 12:45 PM
Pay Pal is excellent! I have been using it for 6 years or better for 100sss of transactions - all good results including some disputes that were settled properly. DO NOT pay with GIFTS Friends & Family to avoid the fee. If you go this route both the buyer and seller have no recourse. DO use GOODS & SERVICES. One does not need to have a PP account to buy through PP but your son will need to set up an account in order to sell.

Additionally, I believe that he will NOT have access to his money for some time ( a week or two ???) - at least until the rowing shell has arrived at its destination and perhaps a bit longer. I don't know the details anymore, as it has been a long time since I was new to Pay Pal, but holding the money is just PP way of making certain that the deal and the seller are legit. After more transactions PP does not hold funds.

Important to be very clear on the terms. Have some document - at the least emails or or text trail - that details the AS IS with photos and accurate description of any potentially disputable conditions - scratches, gelcoat damage, broken fixtures etc. If your son is above board and well documented there will no disputable issue. Ideally you should get on file a reply that the buyer understands the AS IS condition and the terms of shipping/transport. Insurance to protect the vessel in transit will fall on your son. If the shell arrives damaged or never at all - he will be out the money not the purchaser - just as if you were buying something from any retailer. After the boat is in the hands of the buyer he has time to dispute the accuracy of the condition and request a refund but if your son conceals nothing there is nothing to worry about.

Best case - your son delivers the boat and gets paid in cash otherwise PP is an excellent alternative with the qualifiers I mentioned taken into consideration. Good luck.

Mike Henderson
07-31-2017, 12:57 PM
The problem with PayPal dispute resolution is that you can lose. My experience is that PayPal tends to settle disputes in favor of the buyer unless you just have overwhelming evidence as the seller.

With cash, the deal is done when the cash is handed over and he takes possession of the goods. Courts have ruled over and over that an "as is" sale is just that and the buyer needs to do due diligence PRIOR to the sale. Once the sale is over, it's over.

Mike

Bob Bouis
07-31-2017, 1:04 PM
Worst case scenario is that he pays you with someone else's credit card, or denies that he made the transaction, and you end up with nothing. Paypal (and credit cards in general) impart significant risk on the seller. That risk might be acceptable when a couple hundred bucks is on the line, but for thousands, insist on cash.

The only thing you get out of it is (potentially) allowing someone who doesn't have the cash to charge it, which is... iffy anyway. Don't bother.

Jim Becker
07-31-2017, 1:29 PM
The buyer, if local, should be able to support a cash transaction merely by visiting his/her bank to get the cash. If not local, perhaps they can send the cash via Western Union or some other service. Online services such as PayPal and Venmo are not the best for larger transactions, IMHO, and the latter is often used by scammers based on something I recently read.

Folks who are reluctant to provide cash for purchases like this would be cause for concern with me. Yes, there's a level of effort required when it's more than a simple ATM withdrawal can support, but...

Mike Circo
07-31-2017, 1:49 PM
Folks who are reluctant to provide cash for purchases like this would be cause for concern with me. Yes, there's a level of effort required when it's more than a simple ATM withdrawal can support, but...

Yeah. I second this sentiment. I've bought and sold 4 cars over Craig's List and always done a cash or cashiers check transaction. All of them have been at or above the $3000 amount and no one ever questioned the transaction. Meet at the local police department if worried, but otherwise the "no cash" stipulation is a red flag for me.

Matt Meiser
07-31-2017, 1:54 PM
I'll add another vote for cash or nothing on a local sale. Even a cashier's check could be counterfeit, though it seems like a lot of trouble. My guess is its a scam and there are other tell-tale signs upcoming--someone will be picking it up for him, he'll overpay and want a refund, etc, etc.

John Lanciani
07-31-2017, 2:53 PM
Cash, and verify that the bills don't all have the same serial number. The truth is that $3000 isn't all that much money any more relatively speaking. Walk into the bank and make the withdrawal in 100's and no one will raise an eye. Any electronic format payment is suspect when dealing face to face for a used item.

Steve Peterson
07-31-2017, 2:56 PM
I agree that cash is the best option. Venmo or even Paypal "send money to a friend" do not sound safe when transfering money between strangers.

Maybe the other guy is worried about showing up with $3000 cash in his pocket. People have been robbed in parking lots trying to complete CL transactions. If that is his concern, then maybe you can meet at his bank and transfer the money there. I think I would trust a cashiers check if it was handed to me by a bank teller.

Steve

andy bessette
07-31-2017, 3:01 PM
...meet at his bank...

This should be easy enough.

Malcolm Schweizer
07-31-2017, 4:13 PM
There is a PayPal scam where they pay you and then pick up the item. Later, you get notified of a dispute for non-receipt. You have no proof they picked it up, and you lose.

Cash is king. If they insist against it offer to go with them to their bank and let the bank write a cashiers check. (Cashiers checks can be faked, but going to the bank with him lets you see the check get cut.)

David T gray
07-31-2017, 5:50 PM
digital transactions should never be made for physical exchanges. in the case of paypal u will 100% lose the case if u do not have a tracking number for the item. venmo is a whole other case, they use their own pot of money to pay the seller then later charge the buyer but if the buyer has no money they will just pull the sellers money from the acct so they buyer would now have the item for free.

glenn bradley
07-31-2017, 5:52 PM
I'm with Mike. It's 2017, $3k is not that large of a sum. If you actually have the cash, go into your bank and get it and bring it to me. Easy-peasy.

Marcus R Geiser Sr
07-31-2017, 5:57 PM
Google Venmo Scams and you will not want to do that type of transaction. I would avoid Paypal as well, if the customer has do use a card to pay ask them to get a cash advance.

I have sold items up to $5000 on ebay accepting paypal without problems. Just take time to research the buyer, by name, email, and username.

Don Kondra
07-31-2017, 6:01 PM
If meeting for a cash sale is not possible, have him send an EMT, electronic money transfer from his bank.

If he won't do that, move on to the next buyer :)

Cheers, Don

Sam Murdoch
07-31-2017, 6:05 PM
I agree that there is no reason to use anything but CASH for a pick up or you deliver purchase, but still maintain that if you document properly and accurately with a trail of paper work and photos PayPal can be trouble free and secure for items being shipped.

I would be very leery of a buyer who would not use cash for a had to hand purchase.

Jamie Buxton
07-31-2017, 8:46 PM
Cashiers check. The buyer tells his bank to withdraw the $3K from his account, and to write a cashiers check to the seller. The $3K sits in the bank's escrow account until the check is cashed. There's no opportunity for the buyer to play fraudulent games.

Jim Becker
07-31-2017, 8:50 PM
Cashiers check. The buyer tells his bank to withdraw the $3K from his account, and to write a cashiers check to the seller. The $3K sits in the bank's escrow account until the check is cashed. There's no opportunity for the buyer to play fraudulent games.
In the past few years, there unfortunately have been many scammer incidents that involved fraudulent cashiers checks...the only way to be totally sure is if it's from a local bank where you can verify with them that the check is good immediately and before turning over the property.

Bruce Wrenn
07-31-2017, 9:15 PM
Three grand is cash makes for an easy robbery target. Cashiers check drawn on buyer's bank in sellers presences is my choice. Or have seller transfer money to buyer's account, while both are at sellers bank.

Wade Lippman
07-31-2017, 9:15 PM
He said he would only do it for cash and they refused. I guess they wanted it for free. Thanks all.

jared herbert
08-01-2017, 3:33 PM
My son is selling his $3,000 rowing shell and wants cash. (it is not on Ebay) The buyer says that is impractical and suggests Venmo.



On their website Venmo says it is intended for transactions among friends. It is not secure for transactions between strangers. So that is out.

How about Paypal? That is obviously for transactions between strangers. Yes?

Once he is paid, does he have the money with complete security, or can the buyer somehow dispute it?
(boat is sold "as is", so once the buyer picks it up, it is supposed to be entirely his problem)
Cash is legal tender where ever you go.
In this day and age, $3000 isn't all that much money. Insist on the cash, if the buyer is afraid he is going to get robbed, have him meet you at your bank or at his bank for the exchange. If he wont supply cash, he isn't really interested in buying it. I am retiring from my farming business and anything that is over $1000 I will insist on cash payment if I don't know the individual involved. No one has questioned me so far and some of the items have been considerably more than 3K. As and aside I have a friend that sold a pontoon boat for $44000, he wanted cash and he got it, no problem.

Mike Cutler
08-01-2017, 4:08 PM
I gotta echo everyone else Wade. Cash or some type of verified payment.
It's pretty obvious the shell isn't going to be shipped, so I'm assuming the buyer and he would have had to meet somewhere in person. That would have been the place to effect the transaction.
Being that the buyer backed out, so easily, I think something was amiss from the onset.

roger wiegand
08-01-2017, 9:22 PM
Cash or a wire transfer. $3K in cash isn't that much, if they won't do it there's something wrong. If they are really paranoid about carrying cash they can pay the $25 wire fee.

Wade Lippman
08-02-2017, 8:34 AM
How about bitcoins? They are secure aren't they? Any big downside to them?

Barry McFadden
08-02-2017, 10:18 AM
There is a PayPal scam where they pay you and then pick up the item. Later, you get notified of a dispute for non-receipt. You have no proof they picked it up, and you lose.

Cash is king. If they insist against it offer to go with them to their bank and let the bank write a cashiers check. (Cashiers checks can be faked, but going to the bank with him lets you see the check get cut.)

If I sell anything and someone picks it up I have them sign a receipt saying they picked it up on that day...

Ronald Blue
08-02-2017, 7:15 PM
Three grand is cash makes for an easy robbery target. Cashiers check drawn on buyer's bank in sellers presences is my choice. Or have seller transfer money to buyer's account, while both are at sellers bank.

I disagree Bruce. Robbery by whom? The buyer? If you meet at the bank who's going to know what you have in your wallet? My wife worked at a local bank for 25 years and there are many many cash transactions with no issues. While a cashiers check would work I just don't see cash being that high of risk. But maybe where you live it's much more dangerous than where I am.

Matt Meiser
08-03-2017, 10:11 AM
Uh, somewhat of a risk for the buyer as the "seller" could be fake and be planning to rob the buyer. Somewhat of a risk for the seller as the "buyer" now knows the seller has the cash and could be setting up to "buy" the item then steal the cash back. Or have a friend steal the cash back then even if someone starts asking questions its difficult to make any connection.

Marc Jeske
08-03-2017, 11:30 AM
Very good responses so far.

Cash only, meet in Police Parking lot where the cops park and are milling about, go in w him and have the Desk guy photocopy his ID, scrutinize the Bills, stash in your pocket, THEN go out and put in his truck.

Not knowing where you live, how this prospect learned of the boat, etc... that's what I would do.

If the buyer has ANY problem w ANY of those steps, FORGET him. Marc

Mike Kreinhop
08-03-2017, 3:51 PM
Very good responses so far.

Cash only, meet in Police Parking lot where the cops park and are milling about, go in w him and have the Desk guy photocopy his ID, scrutinize the Bills, stash in your pocket, THEN go out and put in his truck.

Not knowing where you live, how this prospect learned of the boat, etc... that's what I would do.

If the buyer has ANY problem w ANY of those steps, FORGET him. Marc

Meeting in a police parking lot might not be a bad idea, but I would be very surprised if the seller agreed to this, and equally disappointed in anyone in the office made a copy of the seller's ID. This information on an ID card is protected under the Privacy Act and the police would not have any authority to collect it. Since the sale is a civil issue, there is no reason for law enforcement to be involved. As a former Deputy Sheriff, if you asked me to do this, you would receive a polite "no".

Matt Meiser
08-03-2017, 4:28 PM
I doubt they'd copy the ID but there are several PD's around here that actually encourage using their lobbies as a meeting point. I use a busy local grocery store and park by the busy street out front.

Marc Jeske
08-03-2017, 5:00 PM
" I would be very surprised if the seller agreed to this"

What --- normal person would have a problem with that ??

The photocopying, that's potentially difficult, is more subject to the guy just getting out of school w everything by the book, or a typically old timer w some common street sense that understands reality in the World.

Kinda like asking to taste something at a hot deli - An intelligent server, that has possibly even had Bus 101 in their past, will gladly give you a taste, realizing it is the overall wise thing to increase sales ( assuming the sampled product is desirable).

Another, just hired 15 yr old brought up on twitter and video games, will look at you like a deer into headlights, and if you ask again, will go have to find her manager.

"Whatever". Marc

Mike Kreinhop
08-03-2017, 5:10 PM
" I would be very surprised if the seller agreed to this"

What --- normal person would have a problem with that ??

Marc

Ugh...I made some edits to my reply as I was typing and didn't go back to fix the beginning. What I meant to write is in the underlined section.

"Meeting in a police parking lot might not be a bad idea, but I would be very surprised if the seller agreed to give a copy of his or her ID, and equally disappointed in anyone in the office made a copy of the seller's ID. This information on an ID card is protected under the Privacy Act and the police would not have any authority to collect it. Since the sale is a civil issue, there is no reason for law enforcement to be involved. As a former Deputy Sheriff, if you asked me to do this, you would receive a polite "no"."

Marc Jeske
08-03-2017, 5:18 PM
I believe I originally read your edited version, and if not, I DO now understand all your delineated points.

My response stands as it was.

Once I move to Iran, Iraq, or some "stan" place, or where the Chubby Little faced Boy w the missile program rules, Then I will change the response. Marc

John Lanciani
08-03-2017, 5:26 PM
I believe I originally read your edited version, and if not, I DO now understand all your delineated points.

My response stands as it was. Marc

If someone asked for my ID in return for the privilege of handing them $3000 I'd tell them to go jump in a lake. A cash deal requires trust by both parties, either you're good with it or your not.

Marc Jeske
08-03-2017, 5:35 PM
In a world w counterfeit bills ?

To simply photocopy their licence ?

And further, at a Police station.... not at my home Meth lab w numerous skinny boned 80 lb women laying about passed out ?

OK, to each his own, I'd be OK w it.

And, WHAT if there is no nearby Lake ?? :confused: Marc

John Lanciani
08-03-2017, 5:55 PM
If they are passing counterfeit bills don't you think they probably have a fake ID to go with them? Seriously, I buy and sell all the time and some of the ideas in this thread are rediculous. If you're worried about fake bills go to staples and get one of the magic ink pens to check them. I have people I don't know at my house at least monthly buying stuff and I've never had a single issue. All I do to protect myself is discretely take a pic of their license plate just in case they decide to come back when I'm not around.

Marc Jeske
08-03-2017, 6:22 PM
NOTHING NOTHING in this thread is "Ridiculous" if one studies it and learns what VERY often happens in a Fallen World.

If someone has a fake ID, well, Duhhhh.. they probably don't want it copied especially at a Police Station.

So , the question of to deal w them or not is answered.

Where do you figure there is a mandate that they need to do both simultaneously - Have a fake ID, AND have bad bills ?

"Night and Day thinking"

Google it.

In all cases, not wanting to meet at a Station, and not giving ID for your records, means something is awry.

Possibly just "Big Brother" paranoia, but something of some sort anyway.

"Normal" psychologically healthy and legally and financially solid people generally at least have no problem w this.

READ that again.

Some post above commented on "Privacy Issues"

Then says, too tired at this point to delineate the responses, see, you DO then take a pic of License.

Don't you know that is breaking "Privacy Laws" ??????? :eek: :eek: :eek:

Privacy Laws my Butt, in the good old days, BEFORE privacy laws, kids going to school carried pocket knives, and some, in rural areas, even brought their .22 Rifle to Squirrel hunt on way home.

Privacy Laws................................... "Whatever".

Like if you truly examine what you sign when you pick up
Prescriptions at your Pharmacy, it is NOT "Privacy" at all.

It is ---...READ the fine print.

You are in fact signing AWAY your privacy.

But, it is sugarcoated to make you think you are RETAINING your privacy.

Since WHEN do you mandated NEED to sign for privacy ??


Google it, the "Magic"pens are not foolproof, some scammers have figured PAST those.

And scammers abound.


I have had experience w this crap when my young newbie 15 yr old Son tried to sell a $2K video camera on Ebay.


People that have a problem meeting at a Police station, or showing their ID to be copied, DO have some sort of problem , if only just paranoia.



If someone has a fake ID, well, Duhhhh.. they probably don't want it copied especially at a Police Station.

--- them anyway, you don't need a nutcase buyer.


There are levels of everything in life, NOT always Black and White.

Whatever makes you comfortable.


As I said.... "Whatever".... I'm Totally done with this thread.

If someone thinks I'm Nuts, I don't care.

OMG, we are talking about $3K here, NOT a $20 router bit, and hopefully Normal credible sane honest buyers, while weeding out the Scammers (that abound if you study it) and Nutjobs.

Rant over, Marc

Jerome Stanek
08-04-2017, 10:02 AM
Around here the police encourage using their parking lot for Craigs list deals.

Dick Strauss
08-06-2017, 8:19 AM
One tactic I've used when selling vehicles is to meet the buyer at my local bank for the final transaction. There I deposit his/her cash into my account (now the bank is repsonsible for forged bills they missed) while I wait for the bank notary to complete the vehicle title transfer document. I also ask for earnest money of several hundred dollars to hold the item (if not completed the same day) . Both buyer and seller sign a contract written in plain English that clearly states the terms and conditions for both the earnest money and final sale trasactions (that way there are no misunderstandings). It is not perfect but I try to keep things open and honest.

Wade Lippman
08-06-2017, 12:48 PM
Transaction went fine. He drove 300 miles to pick the boat up, but it turns out my son knows his daughtor's roommate.