Turning upgrades, many

[William C Rogers]

First I would like to thank John Keeton for allowing me to visit his shop and look at the tooling and fixtures he uses. It was a well worth while trip just to see his tools and his many beautiful turinings he had on hand.

I upgraded my PM 90 lathe to the Laguna Revo 18-36. I could have spent much more, but I am a hobbyist and this lathe fit to what I wanted. I just purchased the lathe and did not purchase the extended bed option that would allow a 32" swing. Maybe in time but not right now. I'll not go through the actual setup as there have been several post already. Laguna has a series of videos on the setup of the lathe and setup of every option for the lathe. I did watch those and they were most helpful in the unpacking. Assembly is fairly straight forward.
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I did all the normal check outs. I measured the spindle and did not see any runout at all. Th indicator just did not move for either the spindle face or shaft.. Tail stock alignment was also very good.

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The PM 90 was set against the wall. I decided to set the 18-36 90 degrees giving me access to the end to take advantage of the sliding head stock for bowl turning. The design of the legs made it easy to add ballast. I built a wood box and was able to pack 275 lbs of sand into it. Four 50 lb. bags and a bunch of gallon bags filled with sand to fill it up. I made pullouts instead of drawers that would hold various tooling. The thin white piece of plastic covers the shelves, but more important I just lift out to dump the shavings that fall between the ways. With the wood and tooling I probably have 325-350 lbs of ballast.

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Theses are my likes and dislikes

likes
it is quiet, however at top speed there is a strong fan in the motor
the height is very good for me, however Laguna does offer a riser kit
the legs are splayed giving it stability
speed control is good at holding speed
theses are features I like and I did not have before
speed range with easy belt change I was limited to 350-2100 (tel:350-2100) rpm on the PM 90
reverse, I do like sanding in reverse
indexing
cone shape, I like not having the head stock right against the chuck.
Threaded hand wheel for making a vacuum adapter
banjo tool post locking works very well
banjo clamp handle is longer

disklikes
I don't like the little ball on the tail stock wheel, I will eventually replace it with a handle
placement of the banjo post locking handle, don't leave it on the same side as the clamp handle or you will pinch your fingers
Placement of the emergency stop switch. It would be better if it was placeable/remote as if you are turning a bowl and it lets go you would have to reach across the remaining work to stop the lathe
smaller hand wheel, I'm getting use to it

problems
the only problem I encountered was the set screw came loose on the tail stock hand wheel. They could have used a larger set screw. I put some blue thread lock on it.

Laguna Customer Service
I called Laguna to get information on a thread size. While on the phone I got another call from Laguna. There was a message to call back and I did. They were following up to see if I had encountered any problems. This was positive to me.

[William C Rogers]

Upgraded steady rest

During my visit to John Keeton's shop I noticed his steady rest. I really liked it and he told me it was made by Jeff Nicol. I had heard the name before and I thought I would look up to purchase one. Well that ship sailed long ago. John may have said he no longer provided them, but I didn't catch that. However in searching for it I came across the plans to build one by JD Combs (a fellow creeker) and felt it wasn't that difficult to do. I thank Mr. Combs for providing such detailed plans. One of my club members was a welder (I try). So I purchased the hardware outlined in the plan and began the process.
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It took a bit, but finally connected with the club member and had the steady rest welded. I set it up on the lathe with a started hollow form that John Keeton had sent with me to finish. There was considerable vibration in the upper half of the rest. In PM"s with Mr. Combs he indicated he thought he changed the base material from 5/16" to 3/8".
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I felt this would help, but would still need something else. So I decided to add gussets to the arms and the flange ring. (I should have looked at John Keeton's to see how it was constructed, but intended to buy vs build at that time). I decided on three possible fixes, increase the base plate thickness by adding a 1/4" plate I had, putting gussets on the flange ring, and putting gussets on the arms. I first put gussets on the arms and that basically solved the vibration issue. Since I made the ring gussets I went ahead and installed them (but most likely no value added), and welded the 1/4" plate to the 5/16" plate. When the flange was initially welded to the 5/16" plate there was some warping, adding the 1/4" plate corrected this. This photo shows the gusset on the arms and the small gussets on the ring. (Yes I did the weld so don't look closely, but I think it will hold)
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In addition I made two additional arms, one that can be put anywhere and one that bolts in the flange holes.
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If I were building again I would use 3/8" plate and have gussets for the arms. I would be more careful to minimize warping from welding. I used 1-1/4" and 1-1/2" square tubes. It may have been better to use the 1-1/4" and 1" square tubes described in the plan. It was a pain to get them to slide freely.
Simple platter rest

While I was at it I decided to make a platter rest. Very simple from left over square tube, some 1-1/4" angle, and 1" - 1/4" flat stock. I cut a 1-1/2" piece of the square and put between the angle on one end and put the remaining on the other end as a post. I had the slotted piece from something but it could be the 1/4" with holes. On the piece in the lathe it worked fine, no vibration.

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[William C Rogers]

Hollowing System
I decided on a articulating arm hollowing system. Thinking I will eventually build a capture system. I was very impressed with the Monster articulating arm system I was able to use during my visit to John Keeton's shop. It was basically the system I compared everything else to as far as build quality and price. I was going to wait until after the Symposium before buying, but came across the Simon Hope system. One of the features he offered in a complete system was a camera. I only saw one other system that offered a camera, but much more $$. Did not find many reviews for the Hope Hollowing System, but those I did find were positive. I went ahead and ordered the system with the camera and also the laser. The system comes with two 3/4" bars, one that is hook shaped and one straight. They include a carbide Hunter style cutter and a disk scraper. You can use on the carbide or disk on either one. I also ordered a 5/8 bar with a straight carbide cutter and a hook carbide cutter.
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It is very similar to the Monster except it has an extra "knuckle" and a grip.
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I have hollowed one one piece and the carbide cutters remove material fast. I really like the camera for finishing the thickness as you can always see where the cutter is at. I hollowed this piece and place a red line as a thickness guide.
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My plan is to use the laser for the initial hollowing and the camera for final thickness. This is because with the camera you are looking at the screen more than the work. However I feel you can do better with the camera system as far as being uniform and thickness as you always know where the cutter is. I want to do piercing at some point and the camera system will be better for that.

I am happy with the Hope system. One thing that was recommended was to get a 1" boring bar. Hope does not offer one, and when I went to the Monster site it wasn't there. Did something happen or is this just a glitch? It says the site was not renewed. Are the still making the Monster system?

[William C Rogers]

last one

I redid my chisel racks. Before I just had them not very accessible. Since I moved the lathe I have my bathroom wall to my back. I built racks with PVC tubes. I also had a small piece of peg board I put just below for the odd things. I now have easy access to everything and like this setup.
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Additional tooling
While at the symposium I also bought the Oneway Drill wizzard. I just wanted one as I was tired of drilling off mark when taking the work to the drill press. I now have a lathe that indexes and I also make a lot of the little birdhouse ornaments. I have also added two Super Nova 2 chucks. I also bought three Robust tool rest. This time I bought the low profile and like those better than the comfort rest. I did not buy the curved rest.

None of this makes me a better turner, but gives me more capability to try and do different things

[ELY WALTON]

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[...]
None of this makes me a better turner, but gives me more capability to try and do different things


I got a new Revo 1836 a few weeks ago also... Mine DID immediately make me a better turner, and also I am now a better man...:>) (Thanks to scene in Family Man as Nick Cage tries on an expensive suit.)

Congratulations on the upgrade!

73 Ely

[Dane Riley]

A 1 inch boring bar is not difficult to make, if you can find a 1" 3 foot steel rod. End drill for the cutter, a tapped hole for a set screw to hold it. Use your lath to turn the other end to 3/4".

You will have to cut it to length, as 3' is too long even with the extension. I have a 6.5 inch steel cutting blade I use in my 10" radial arm saw. Makes very smooth and square cuts.

[Brice Rogers]

My own activities in the area of lathe upgrades pale in comparison to those of the original poster. But I'll show you my sand ballast boxes and under cabinet drawers.364346364347

[Robert Willing]

How that looks great, but how do you keep out all of the chips out of your tools?

[William C Rogers]

How that looks great, but how do you keep out all of the chips out of your tools?

I put holes in the bottom for each tool, usually between 1" and 1-1/4" depending on the handle. If I had thought about it at the time I would have made a cut out in the PVC at the bottom with the bandsaw. What is nice I now find myself putting them back instead of laying on the lathe. The wood was all scrap that wasn't of use for any finished type project. I glued the PVC to the wood with E6000.

[William C Rogers]

I got a new Revo 1836 a few weeks ago also... Mine DID immediately make me a better turner, and also I am now a better man...:>) (Thanks to scene in Family Man as Nick Cage tries on an expensive suit.)

Congratulations on the upgrade!

73 Ely
Well my last turning is better than those before, so maybe it is the lathe.

[Eric Gourieux]

Wow, Bill. You have a nice setup and all the "bells and whistles". I'm looking forward to seeing what you create with that new setup.

[ELY WALTON]

My own activities in the area of lathe upgrades pale in comparison to those of the original poster. But I'll show you my sand ballast boxes and under cabinet drawers.364346364347

Brice, Very nice looking and functional use of space. I would need to add some room at the floor for a toe kick -- a place for my big feet to go as I belly up to the lathe. Thanks for the photo!!

Ely

[Brice Rogers]

Brice, Very nice looking and functional use of space. I would need to add some room at the floor for a toe kick -- a place for my big feet to go as I belly up to the lathe. Thanks for the photo!!

Ely
Thanks.
I have a small toe kick on the side that I usually work from. If I'm turning on the reverse side, there isn't a toe kick. But the drawers are just occupying the space between the concrete and the platform above, so if it bothered me, I could slide the drawers inward or outward.
I am going to work on the center section and add two drawers and cover up the tools so that it doesn't fill with chips.

[Richard Casey]

William and Brice,
Could you both tell me why you need the ballast boxes you have fitted?
Rgds,
Richard.

[William C Rogers]

William and Brice,
Could you both tell me why you need the ballast boxes you have fitted?
Rgds,
Richard.

Richard, you might want to start a thread on this subject. For me it was to add stability and reduce the effects of vibration. Mass will improve the ability to reduce vibration effects.

[John Keeton]

Bill, great to see your visit was worthwhile and congrats on the new toys!!

I don't always subscribe to the philosophy of "better tools make for a better craftsman", but in the case of a lathe I do agree. That is the one stationary tool in my shop that I spend hours on. Most all table saws, band saws, etc. are the same height and operate the same way - yes, there are differences in quality, vibration, and so forth, but one normally spends just a few minutes cutting whatever needs to be cut. Perhaps multiple pieces, but still, the amount of time and the ergonomics are much different than for a lathe.

If a lathe fits you, and the ergonomics of the machine are right, then it most certainly can make you a better turner! My Revo 1836 changed the way I turn and has provided the ability to do things I could not do on my Jet 1642-2.

[allen thunem]

John,
Could you expand on how the new lathe has changed the way you turn??




Bill, great to see your visit was worthwhile and congrats on the new toys!!

I don't always subscribe to the philosophy of "better tools make for a better craftsman", but in the case of a lathe I do agree. That is the one stationary tool in my shop that I spend hours on. Most all table saws, band saws, etc. are the same height and operate the same way - yes, there are differences in quality, vibration, and so forth, but one normally spends just a few minutes cutting whatever needs to be cut. Perhaps multiple pieces, but still, the amount of time and the ergonomics are much different than for a lathe.

If a lathe fits you, and the ergonomics of the machine are right, then it most certainly can make you a better turner! My Revo 1836 changed the way I turn and has provided the ability to do things I could not do on my Jet 1642-2.

[ELY WALTON]

John,
Could you expand on how the new lathe has changed the way you turn??

Not to steal John's thunder, but as a newer owner of a Revo 1836 (read John's great reviews), I will take a stab at this from my viewpoint. I am tall and never had a proper lathe, especially never one that was high enough -- until I installed the Revo 3 inch risers... Being able to get up close and personal while turning does make a difference. I attribute the improvement to better tool positioning and stance with the spindle at my elbows. And the Revo is so smooth and quiet, it lets me focus more on what the tool is doing.

And I agree with John that we spend more time at the lathe than say a table saw or planer... What's more, my time spent at the lathe is creative -- I rarely know how a piece will turn out before starting to turn... the final shape just kind of reveals itself as the shavings spool off into the air. (Guess that is why I am so hooked on turning... )

I did have one minor issue with the new lathe height. Sometimes when turning from the extreme left side of a spindle, the motor would "mysteriously" lose power and slow down.... I soon figured out that my arm was resting against the headstock and inadvertently turning down the speed control! Once identified, it was quickly fixed by replacing the nice, big Revo knob with a smaller one from my woodburner (which now has the big brushed silver knob).

So, for me, having the lathe at the proper height made a big improvement in my turning -- and it's just plain fun! (Interested in hearing John's reply, as well...)

Ely

[Dave Carey]

Ely,
How tall aare you? I'm 6'1" and considering the Revo but think i would need the riser blocks. Dave

[John Keeton]

Allen, Ely covered a lot of what makes the Revo a game changer, but one of the main things for me has been the ability to mount the bed extension on the low position expanding my turning capacity to 32". I doubt I would ever use that much swing, but I have done a few 18-20" platters that were turned on the offset requiring a swing of around 22" and a substantial amount of stability in the lathe. I also have a couple of 25" platter blanks I intend to turn. The Revo provides the swing and solid stance needed for these.

[William C Rogers]

John, to say the visit was worthwhile is an understatement. I learned a lot (and forgot some). Just to see your beautiful platters and turnings was fantastic. And the tips you provided was greatly appreciated. Being able to use you Monster articulating arm was a great help in understanding how the system worked. Even though I chose the Hope system it may have been the best choice. On the Monster site it said a 6 week lead time. However their site is no longer up and not sure if they quit producing systems. I have been playing around with my system before finishing the big leaf maple piece you sent home with me. The more I look at that piece the more I like it and don't want to mess it up. I wanted to see (practice) how thin I could hollow. I was able to hollow this piece down to 0.035". It is 5-1/2" tall and 4" at the widest point. Wood is boxelder. The final weight is 2.1 oz. I'm thinking about 3/16+ is an ideal thickness. I'll play a bit more before putting the big leaf maple blank on.
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Regarding the lathe. My previous lathe was a PM 90. Originally it was a 12" swing. The floor to spindle height was 42-1/2. I turned on that for about a year. I then raised the lathe to have a 18" swing. This also raise the floor to spindle height to 45-1/2". I could tell the difference. It made how I hold the chisels more uncomfortable. The Laguna got me back to the 42" height. Other features I got was reverse, better speed range, more stability (the PM 90 only has a 16-12" base). To sum it up, I highly respect the PM 90 and great experience in learning about that lathe that will be around for another 50 years, but the Laguna is much more comfortable and has features I did not have with the PM 90. I didn't get the bed extension that will allow up to 32" swing at this time, but will be available when I decide I want it. So being comfortable and with more capability, I guess I am a better turner.

[ELY WALTON]

Ely,
How tall aare you? I'm 6'1" and considering the Revo but think i would need the riser blocks. Dave


Hi Dave -- I am 6' 4" so you may be OK without... I do also have the footpads screwed out about two inches or so.... Being tall is good for seeing over a crowd, but we really pay when it comes to coach air travel!

Have fun! Ely

[Neil McWilliams]

How do you move that baby around? I had a wheeled frame but it got in the way of my toe room. Didn't try installing trailer jacks but did get hydraulic table on sale at Harbor Freight, which makes the occasional move very easy.