Mystery saw...

[steven c newman]

In the form of an older "rip" saw. Search-fu has failed to id the saw's maker, sooo
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One: Any idea which maker clipped the saw plate like this? top and bottom?
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Two: Bolts that came from the saw...not split nuts.
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But they are flat in profile. They are also skinnier than "newer" bolts..
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As for the medallion..
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It is a sunken one, marked as a Warranted Superior. I refinished the handle, and reset the bolts..
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Atkins? Simmonds? This is a nice etch, though
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Saw is marked as a 7ppi. 26" long, straight back...but no nib..
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Any ideas as to who made "The Farmer" saw?
Might be worth sharpening up as a user. It only cost $3:eek:

One of two saws I cleaned up tonight....the other was a 20"long, 10ppi, D8.....as in the "8" was inside of the "D" on the etch..it was a tad cheaper..at $2.50...:rolleyes:
Any other details needed, to help with the ID?:confused:

[lowell holmes]

I would file the tooth line smooth, re-tooth it, sharpen and set the teeth. I would probably make a new handle and enjoy the saw. I have three saws that I have done this. I enjoy using them.

You get to make the saw cross cut or rip and fine tooth or course.

[steven c newman]

I think I have enough saws that I don't need to change a saw's use. I merely grab another saw.
The "other" saw from tonight's misadventures..
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Starting at this end. Handle sanded til the old finish had left the building...replaced with one coat BLO.
Brass shined up, slots were "clocked" I had removed the handle to clean the plate. Used some Gun Blue Paste to try to bring out the etch a little better..
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There is an 8 inside the letter D. pre-1928 Disston D8.

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20" long, skew back, 10ppi, Panel saw. Needed a couple kinks hammered out, otherwise was in good shape...for $2.50..

Now..IF I can just find out who the maker of that "The Farmer" saw was....
Ok,try this...the saw was made after split nuts went out of style, but, before the modern large bolts came in...time frame?

[Jim Koepke]

Dec. 27, 1887 is the date of the saw nut patent (Glover's patent) that brought us the heavier bolts with squared shanks.

Before that my recollection is hazy, the later Domed style nuts were patented August 29, 1876. Disston held the patent.

http://disstonianinstitute.com/medv2.html

jtk

[steven c newman]

So, I appear to have a saw from about the 1870-1880s....still haven't found out who made this saw. both the nut and the bolt have flat heads,,,nothing is domed shape. Handle is well shaped..for three fingers, the index finger used as a pointer. 1 handed rip?

[steven c newman]

Just a quiet, little BUMP.....would be nice to know who made this old saw. teeth are in fine shape, too. 1870-1880 era saw maker not known as Disston?

[Pete Taran]

If there are no patent dates on the back side of the nut, that would rule out both Munger and Washbourne patent nuts. Disston, for a time did sand cast a nut that resembled the Glover Patent and to my knowledge, was the only company to do so. They took out a patent on it. They did have slender shanks, and were often broken.

Disston etched saws to order, but the designs didn't show up until the 1914 catalog. Your saw does have the look of other saws that they made, especially with the rounded over router style handle. Very similar to a saw they made called the "Imp". Taking all that into consideration, I'd say the saw was made by Disston, assuming that there are no patent dates on the back of the nuts you have. For those who don't know, the Munger Patent of Dec 2 of 1869 assembled a saw bolt from flat stock using swaging. Washbourne patent of Dec 31, 1867 accomplished the same thing but by brazing. The Disston Patent of Aug 29, 1876 was for the cast nuts with slender shanks. I've only seen the domed variety, but the letters patent do show a flat version. All evidence points to Disston. Letters patent below if someone wants to look them up at the USPTO:

364510364511364512

PS. Pictures of the nuts themselves:

364513364514

[steven c newman]

Thank you....

[steven c newman]

A few years ago, I had an Imp saw come through the shop...
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Except this was a shew back, crosscut version...
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I THINK the etch was readable...been a few years..
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Seems to be a newer version of the Farmer.....
Again, thank you Pete!

[lowell holmes]

I fail to see that straightening the tooth line and sharpening the saw is changing it's use. I've resurrected two saws without changing their use.:)

They just cut straight and fast.

[steven c newman]

I have resurrected over 100 saws....have shortened a couple. Have sent a few out to be sharpened. I have also sharpened quite a few saws. I have yet to bring one into the shop that the first thought would be to change a tooth line, or recut a saw's teeth. Usually just a simple sharpening is all they need. The only "straightening" I do is getting rid of kinks and bows. Currently, there are about 30 saws in the shop. Anything finer than a 7ppi, I will send out, as I am neither set up, nor have the patience to sharpen finer sizes of teeth. have way too many other things to do.....3 out of every 4 saws I have will cut straight, and fast.....the 4th? They are usually scheduled to be sharpened by others, or sold to someone who likes to play with a saw.


The Imp that came through the shop long ago....I THINK was an 8 or 10 pointer. The Farmer was a 7ppi....seems to be sharp enough to do a job....for being 140 years old. I may refresh the teeth, but that is about it. It has quite a bit of set, which is ok, since these saws were never taper ground. I have the kinks and a bend fixed....it may reside in the saw till, until needed.

[lowell holmes]

I have a saw that someone literally butchered. It had large jagged tooth line, totally beyond repair.
I filed the teeth off and re-toothed to 7 tpi crosscut. It now is a pleasant 8 point crosscut saw. I also
made a new handle for it. I enjoy such projects. As a result I have fifteen handsaws hanging on pegs
behind my walk around bench. I sand the rust off of the saw plate if needed and hit it with Johnson's
wax. That stops the corrosion.

[steven c newman]

I have even done a "Rescue" intervention...from time to time..
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"Diamonds in the Rough"? Quarter a piece, too....( look very closely...there is at least one special saw..)
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Maybe?
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Could be..
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Hmmmm...

[lowell holmes]

I also have an eight tpi panel saw with a nib that came to me with three brass Disston saw nuts. The handle was broken, so it has a new maple handle. it is a joy to use.
I had to file the tooth line smooth and re-tooth the saw. It has a 22" long saw plate. If you go to the Disston Saw Institute, you will see a picture of the saw.
I do not know if the saw nuts are original to the saw. The holes in the saw plate seem too large.

[steven c newman]

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Nib on one of two No. 7 saws I have in the til..
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With etch..
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About 1900 or so?
Both are 7ppi. There is now a 20" D8 panel saw in the til as well....The "8" is inside the "D" and the saw is a 10 ppi skewback. It joins four other panels saws. One was from a hardware supplier in Cleveland, OH...according the the custom etch that Disston engraved on the plate.

The Farmer seems to be about 1875-1876, Disston took an Imp saw, custom etched it for some unknown customer. May just be a keeper?

[lowell holmes]

I have a D12 8pt crosscut that I cleaned up and sharpened. The D12 is supposed to be Disston's pedigree saw, but I
think my D7 is equal to it.

I am curious, do you have thoughts on the D12 vs the D7?

[steven c newman]

Don't recall ever having a 12......lots of the D-23s though.....those were very good saws.

Both of the 7s seem to be very good saws....for some reason,though one saw plate is about an inch longer than the other....

Had a few by Bishop ( Greyhound brand) come through the shop.....and a few Atkins. The Atkins seem to have a more comfy feel to the handle..

[lowell holmes]

I bought the D12 online when it became available. I don't know why except they were somewhat legendary and I just had to have it.:)

I know I'm the only one that has done this.

I agree that the D23 saws are excellent saws. I have two of them.

[steven c newman]

Decided to keep the Farmer saw around, as my rip saw....will refresh the teeth as such. Gave my other rip saw away last spring. May keep an eye out this summer for a 5ppi..but for now, the Farmer will do.

[Joe Tilson]

Steven,
That saw looks a lot like a H,S, & B Co saw I have. The etch is very close, but I can't read mine either. I can see the scroll work on either side of the etch though.
Good luck,

[lowell holmes]

I'm sure it is a taper ground saw plate. I like old saws. I have several that have been resurrected.

[steven c newman]

Just a bump....so Taran can read his own words.....

[Pete Taran]

Steve,

Stand behind what I wrote then and now. Neither contradict each other. Disston did in fact make a lot of special etch saws. I'm just trying to point out that the IMP was a saw that even had it's own model number (91) and always had the large IMP etch. They didn't put other etches on it, just as they didn't put other etches on the D8, #12 or any other model numbered saw they made. Those are the facts and I even posted a picture from their 1918 catalog to point this out. Sorry if you disagree. When you come with some facts instead of just your own theories, we can have a reasoned discussion.

[Stewie Simpson]

I'm amazed at the chutzpah that Steven has in criticising Pete, who is the recognised doyen - father even - of modern era backsaw makers. I think that this thread has run its course.

[steven c newman]

Well...this IS a year old thread, after all....

BTW: Stewie....go to the other thread...and tell me who has the "chutzpah".....At least I don't claim to have helped Henry Disston design his first saws.....

[Stew Denton]

Steven,

Pretty good deal for $5.50 total! Good Job!

Stew

[steven c newman]

Might pull inventory later this week....and toss out the junkers....might be a bit rough....without a Saw Guru on the site, to tell which to keep.......Have enough saws for two tils, time to thin the herd.

One nice thing about the upcoming Tractor Fest at West Liberty, OH this coming Labor Day weekend....hardly any saws are shown for sale. There IS a working saw mill on the site....some years, even a Blacksmith will show up.
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From last year...
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And, from 2015....
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About 2 miles of walking through all the vendors....
Last year, one vendor even had anvils for sale.....

[steven c newman]

These saws will be getting tossed to the curb...as soon as I can find a tall can..
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Maybe a dozen, if anyone cares. However..
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These are my "Keeper Saws" and will stay put. Along with these ..
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Backsaws, eggbeaters, and clamps.
I think I am also "good" on planes, for now..
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Well..I may be on the lookout for a few more clamps....can never have too many, right.
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From 2 years ago...vendor had 3 tents AND a bunch of tables set up...
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And there always seemed to be a power tool vendor, or two...
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Some seem to think their items were gold plated....

I think this shindig starts either on a Thursday, or on a Friday....
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And, they do have most of these "engines" running. For those who are into such things, there is also a Parade of Tractors....sometime over a 100 will be in it.
So...anyone going to show up?

[steven c newman]

I don't want to keep any of the "junker saws" even for parts....as I would get accused of having a "Franken-saw".....

Seems they are thought of as junk....might as well toss them out....not worth shipping them to someone else, either.....I'll keep the ones that I can identify as a "good saw" without regard to what others may think. They don't want to come help out...fine. May just forget about the trash can....may just lay them out at the curb.....whatever happens to them after that...who cares.

[steven c newman]

Just hauled 8 saws to the curb. IF I can get another two down from their perch...out the go. Found 4 worth keeping around...Atkins saws, mainly.

Do a drive-by and pick them up, free to the first pair of hands...
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Hand clamp was holding much...got it down...
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Used a few nails to hang the four "good" saws up...besides the old butcher saw..
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there was a Sandvik toolbox saw, and a Craftsman ..
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So....it took two round trips, but..
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There they be, on the curb, in front of the house. You want them, come and get them.