Thinning TBIII to increase open time

[Edwin Santos]

Hi,
Here in the Southwest, the dry climate causes wood glue to set up very quickly in my experience. I sometimes switch to white Elmers Glue-All for some situations but for structural joints, I feel the TB glues are quite a bit stronger. TB III is already a step up in open time versus TB I or II, but there are times where even it is not enough.

I was thinking about thinning the glue with a "tiny" bit of water to reduce the viscosity some, slow the whole coagulation process and hopefully gain open time. Would anyone recommend for or against this practice? Would I be undermining the strength properties of the glue by doing so? I don't want to gain open time and lose strength.

Thanks
Edwin

[johnny means]

I can't tell you the exact scientific tell for what you'd be doing, but I'd try to explain it. By thinning, your reducing the volume of actual adhesive material for any given contact area. It would be like removing every other stitch in a seam, of course out would be weaker. Also, thinning would reduce the volume of your glue line, possibly further reducing the amount of adhesive by causing starvation in spots. Do you happen to own a humidifier?

[Bryan Lisowski]

Stick the bottle of glue in the fridge, this will increase the open time. This was mentioned by TB someplace.

[john bateman]

Titebond has an FAQ here: http://www.titebond.com/frequently_asked_questions.aspx a they state you can thin with 5% water.

[Bill Dufour]

I think you have it backwards on viscosity. Adding water should thin the glue and lower the viscosity.
Bill

[Edwin Santos]

I think you have it backwards on viscosity. Adding water should thin the glue and lower the viscosity.
Bill
Yikes, you're right I had that backwards. You're a man good, Bill.

[Tom Bain]

Plastic Resin glue is your friend, like Unibond 800. 30-45 minutes of open time depending on temp and humidity.

[Steve Kohn]

Two suggestions. Call the Titebond technical helpline and ask......Or just use epoxy glue. Epoxy gives you plenty of open time and fills joints.

[Adam Herman]

i put mine in the fridge for a few extra minutes. seems to work.

[Larry Edgerton]

In the dry winter months I just use a wet rag to dampen the parts or in the case of tenons dip in water and wipe off the excess. The glue is drying fast because the wood is dry, so logic implies that you change that. No problems with strength at all. It gives me just enough time that I can get a complicated door together and still move it to where it needs to be.

[Curt Harms]

There is also a Titebond II Extend.

http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id=21051713-5cce-4925-a653-3bff0a0f71ab



Open Assembly Time
15 minutes (70°F./50% RH)

Total Assembly Time

20-25 minutes (70°F./50%RH)

Could you dilute that to extend assembly time? A call to the tech support line seems like a good idea.

[Wade Lippman]

Why do you feel TB is stronger? If any glue is stronger than the wood, then even if TB is stronger, why would it matter?

[Chris Padilla]

There is also a Titebond II Extend.

http://www.titebond.com/product.aspx?id=21051713-5cce-4925-a653-3bff0a0f71ab




Could you dilute that to extend assembly time? A call to the tech support line seems like a good idea.I never found the TB-II Extend to provide any more open time than TB-III so I just stick with TB-III. If you need more open time, you need a different kind of adhesive as has been suggested. I wouldn't compromise TB-III by thinning it but that is a personal choice. You might experiment to convince yourself 5% is okay.

[Keith Hankins]

I'd say monking around with that will give you joint failure. When I have complicated glue-ups. I use tight bond extend. Great for that purpose. Other adhesives could be imployed as well but they come with some nasty PPE requirements. Right glue for the right purpose.

[Randy Heinemann]

I have used Titebond II Extend since I had a somewhat complicated assembly a couple of years ago. There is not really any downside to using II Extend for most projects. It's weatherproof which I believe means it's as resistant to water as III is (at least the company says so). Plus, it does allow more assembly time. However, if you need double the time you'd get with III, it won't do that; maybe another 10 minutes, depending on environment, temperature, etc.

I don't think I'd dilute it and, if you do, very little. The glue is formulated to be used as is unless you dilute it to use as a sealer for end grain before glue up.

[Patrick Irish]

Fridge idea I'll have to try. When making a 20" cutting board with like 12 strips, things get Harry when I go to clamp once the last board is glued. I sometimes don't get squeeze out on the first 1-2 strips.

[Simon MacGowen]

This thread reaffirms what many people think: many things you see on the Internet are garbage.

Whoever says TBIII can't be thinned because it would weaken the joint is talking rubbish. it depends on how much you thin the glue. Many woodworkers are like that, talking about something without any hands-on experience, pretending to be experts on the subject. Sorta armchair generals we see on those TV talk shows. I have used thinned glue (not exclusive to TBIII) for years and have witnessed not one single joint failure. Sometimes I use thinned glue not for its longer open time but for getting into thin splits.

I have done this thinning even before knowing about the 5% recommendation on the TB FAQ.

Simon

[Randy Heinemann]

Just curious, does thinning the glue 5% make much of a difference in open or assembly time? Since that was the original question, it would be nice to know if that makes a significant difference to know whether it is worthwhile to do. Since Titebond II Extend already gives extended open time with water resistance (based on my use and a response from Titebond). For me, that has been the answer to this point for getting longer open and assembly times.

[Andrew Hughes]

I like to thin tb3 for Hardmaple cutting boards end grain style.Because I don't like a thick glue lines I also speared with a scrap of wood that has notches.
I also thin tb for curved laminations I like spread the glue with a foam roller so I thinn it down like paint.So I can get both side wet fast and in the form asap.
Ive done plenty of test pieces and it all good.
I also avoid glue ups when it hot in the shop

[Frederick Skelly]

I also avoid glue ups when it hot in the shop

I recently tried dampening the mortise before glue up on a hot day. It doesnt extend open time, but it helped to maintain the full open time because the wood didnt swallow up all the moisture. I didnt see any obvious change in joint strength - still seems very strong and solid.