What to turn my Bailey 5-1/4 into

[Paul K. Johnson]

I have a Bailey 5-1/4 plane. It was covered in rust with pits that I'll never remove because I'd have to remove too much metal to make them go away.

It's really an "extra" plane if there is such a thing so I'm considering turning it into a scrub plane.

This is a list of my planes to help you help me decide:

Veritas:
Apron Plane (my most used)
5-1/4 Jack (standard, not low angle)
Low-angle block plane
Miniature block plane (yes, I use it)
Miniature edge plane
Bevel-up Jointer
Low angle smoother (the one with the painted sides)
Router plane

Lie Nielson:
Model-builders plane
Violin plane
Small spoke shave
Large shoulder plane
Rabbeting block plane

Other:
Stanley hand plane - disassembled and a rusty mess. Came to me with a Stanley tool chest that included the 5-1/4
Wil-Kro razor plane
Primus smoother
Some Japanese-style jack plane that has emotional issues

Except for the Japanese jack plane and the two rusty Stanley's, I love all my planes. They're mostly relatively new - purchased over the past 2 years. I can sharpen them competently although I'm not great using them but getting better as I now go looking for reasons to plane something and if I can't find one then I plane something anyway. :)

So what else could I use my Stanley for and what do you suggest? I have cleaned off all the surface rust and the blade is polished and sharp on the business end but corroded and pitted over the rest of the blade. I know I could purchase a new third party blade/chip-breaker that would be better than what's in it but before I sink money into it I want it to be doing something that needs to be done that none of my others will do just as well in their current configuration.

Hopefully that last sentence makes sense. :)

Thanks,

- Paul

[lowell holmes]

I think you need to build a nice curly maple book case. It might be 36" wide, four shelves with two glass doors. I have one in my hall.
Mine is made of cherry though. It will give you a chance to use the plane.

[Paul K. Johnson]

I'm actually a model-builder trying to learn wood-working. I can always use display cases so maybe once I'm feel my game is up to I'll make that maple case. I really like working with maple and cherry.

[lowell holmes]

Google "wooden candle box". You will find simple fun boxes to make.

or

http://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/editors-blog/contributors-blog/great-box-dinner


One of the beginning classes at Homestead Heritage was making a candle box.

http://www.sustainlife.org/store/online-courses/dovetailed-candle-box/

I attended that class when Paul Sellers was there. Frank Strazza is and excellent teacher. I have attended some of his classes as well.

[Pat Barry]

Other:
Some Japanese-style jack plane that has emotional issues
Except for the Japanese jack plane ... I love all my planes. :)

I'm no professional pychologist/psychiatrist, others are, but my amateur psych degree thinks there is a relationship between the emotional issues that your Japanese jack plane has, and your professed lack of love for it. It may be that you need to love that plane a little more and its emotional issues will be gone.

[Jim Koepke]

I'm not great using them but getting better as I now go looking for reasons to plane something and if I can't find one then I plane something anyway. :)

Been there, still do that… A good friend thinks I should go to meetings with him. "Hello, my name is Jim and I'm a plane user." :eek:


It's really an "extra" plane if there is such a thing so I'm considering turning it into a scrub plane.

My appreciation for a scrub plane was rather low until a lousy deal on ebay brought me two beaten to near death #5-1/4 planes. Now one of them sees somewhat regular use as a scrub plane.

The only downside is you may come to like it so much you will want to 'upgrade' to a better example.

Be careful, making shavings with a scrub plane is just as mesmerizing as the gossamer shavings from a freshly sharpened plane.

Plus side is you do not need a great blade for a scrub plane. Also the #5-1/4 & a #3 use the same blade. You may be able to pick up a spare on ebay.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

I have a Bailey 5-1/4 plane. It was covered in rust with pits that I'll never remove because I'd have to remove too much metal to make them go away.

It's really an "extra" plane if there is such a thing so I'm considering turning it into a scrub plane.

Yep. Put some camber on that narrow blade and you'll have just the thing for hogging off big shavings.

Seriously, the combination of a narrow blade and a long-ish sole (compared to other planes with similar-width irons) is perfect for roughing work.

[Robert Engel]

This !! ^^

[steven c newman]

I have 2 in that size...Millers Falls No. 11......used almost every project.

Plane is not too well cared for.....better send it to me for proper disposal.....

364067
Works just fine as a jointer for small boards..
364068
All it is, is a long bodied #3 plane. can be used as a jointer, or a smooth..when the project is too small for the bigger planes. Works very nice on glue lines, too. Oh, and I hear it also works as a Jack plane...

[John Kananis]

From the collection of plains you mention (the low angle jointer being the largest by far with no fore plane in the mix) a scrub would seem out of place. Do you hand-prep larger rough pieces? If yes, then a scrub is a great idea, if no, maybe rethink it. That being said, all-in-of-itself, a 5 1/4 does make a nice scrub.

[Paul K. Johnson]

From the collection of plains you mention (the low angle jointer being the largest by far with no fore plane in the mix) a scrub would seem out of place. Do you hand-prep larger rough pieces? If yes, then a scrub is a great idea, if no, maybe rethink it. That being said, all-in-of-itself, a 5 1/4 does make a nice scrub.

I'm not clear what you're getting at. Are you saying I need a fore plane? What will it do that my 5-1/4 or jointer won't do?

I forgot about another plane I have - a Wood River #1. I bought it just because it's cute. But it's nicely made and I recommend it to anyone looking for that class of plane.

I also have the three miniature wood plane set from Harbor Freight. I think I paid eight bucks for it figuring if it was the junk I expected it to be then I wasn't out much. And so far they've all been worthless. I got all the blades razor sharp but I can't get any of them to take a nice shaving. I think the blade steel is too soft or something. No big deal. I don't actually have a use for them anyway.

[Patrick Chase]

I'm not clear what you're getting at. Are you saying I need a fore plane? What will it do that my 5-1/4 or jointer won't do?

When it comes to roughing the only thing that a fore will do that those planes won't is wear you out.

Seriously, the choice of roughing planes is very subjective. Some people use fores, others use jacks, still others use scrubs. Both your Veritas 5-1/4W (basically a slightly shortened #5 with an unusually long toe) and the Bailey 5-1/4 we're discussing here are perfectly reasonable roughing planes. I would prefer the Bailey for that, because you typically make narrow-but-deep cuts when roughing so the 2" iron of the 5-1/4W doesn't buy you much.

I think he may have misunderstood what was proposed. You wouldn't be getting a scrub, you'd simply be configuring your Bailey 5-1/4 for roughing. It's perfectly reasonable IMO.

[steven c newman]

Or..just send it to me..I'll make a WORKING plane out of it...it was called a Junior JACK plane for a reason....

[Paul K. Johnson]

I've got it working. But I have a newer better version so instead of having it sitting on a shelf collecting dust I want to do something with it (besides send it to someone else). :)

[Paul K. Johnson]

You wouldn't be getting a scrub, you'd simply be configuring your Bailey 5-1/4 for roughing. It's perfectly reasonable IMO.

The Bailey is also a 5-1/4. So for roughing do I want a full radius on the blade or a straight section in the middle and rounded toward the edges?

[Patrick Chase]

The Bailey is also a 5-1/4. So for roughing do I want a full radius on the blade or a straight section in the middle and rounded toward the edges?

The Bailey 5-1/4 and the Veritas 5-1/4W are actually very different planes. If you put them side-by-side with the sole facing up you'll see that the Veritas has a 2" wide blade vs 1-3/4" on the Bailey. You'll also see that the Veritas plane's mouth is quite a bit further back along the sole (it's a rather unique plane in that respect). The point I was making earlier is that if you're going to pick one to use for roughing work then the Bailey's narrower blade might be preferable.

I grind my rouging planes with a camber radius that equates to somewhere between 0.050" and 0.070" of blade projection when the blade corners are level to the plane's sole. That works out to a 3-4" camber radius on a 40-1/2 scrub with a 1-1/2" blade, and 6-8" a camber radius on a #5 with a 2" blade (all of this assumes bevel-down planes with 45 deg beds). It would correspond to a 4-6" radius on your Bailey $5-1/4. People typically use rounded edges on jointers and smoothers, not so much on roughing planes.

[lowell holmes]

I have a #3 Bailey that is sharpened as a smoother. It is a Canadian plane and has a great feel.
I have a 1 3/4" wide plane iron that I bought from Lowes or Home Depot, I'm not sure.

I sharpened the iron with a severe radius in the beveled edge. I use that combination as a scrub plane.
It works, try it. I put that combination in the plane when scrubbing.

One plane does both jobs. I use the #3 smoother more than I use my 604 Bedrock.

[Paul K. Johnson]

OK, then one more question. I use basically two types of wood. I either order 3S from a sawyer. Not sure if that's the right nomenclature but the two faces and one edge are jointed and smooth. The second edge is live.

The second type of wood I use is kiln-dried pine from big box.

Do I even need a scrub plane? From what I can tell it's mostly used for really rough wood to prepare it for a jack and then a jointer. Or skip the jack and go straight to the jointer.

Remember, my background is building stuff out of balsa where you cut and sand and occasionally use a razor plane.

Thanks for all the help!

[Patrick Chase]

OK, then one more question. I use basically two types of wood. I either order 3S from a sawyer. Not sure if that's the right nomenclature but the two faces and one edge are jointed and smooth. The second edge is live.

The second type of wood I use is kiln-dried pine from big box.

Two questions:

1. Is the wood you get always the thickness you want?

2. If not, are you fully committing to electron-free woodworking or will you use a thickness planer?

If the answers are "no" and "yes" then you probably need some sort of "serious" roughing plane by which I mean a scrub, jack, or fore with a heavily cambered blade, set up to take narrow-but-deep shavings.

Otherwise you'll still want a Jack (for removing cup for example), but you can give it more of an intermediate setup.

I have my 5-1/4W set up with a 12" camber, and it works great when I want a deeper cut and lighter weight than a jointer (roughing with a jointer can be painful btw), but I also don't want to blast off hunks of wood the way a scrub or heavily cambered Jack can. IMO it's a reasonable setup for a "machine-assisted" workshop. An equivalent setup for your 5-1/4 would be ~9" of camber.

One thing I hope you're getting from all of this is that the setup matters at least as much as the specific plane type. A #3 (nominally a smoother) with a deeply cambered blade and open mouth is a scrub for all intents and purposes. A #5 with a close-set cap iron and slightly cambered/rounded blade is effectively a smoother, etc. Some combinations are more problematic than others (for example I don't spend enough time at the gym to rough or smooth with my #8, and trying to joint with a #4 is more hassle than it's worth) but the Jack-sized planes we're discussing here can do almost anything that you set them up to do. A Jack-of-all-trades as it were.

[steven c newman]

Maybe show up at my shop, and try this one for size?
364409
Happen to have some Curly Maple that needs jointed down smooth. There are four sitting there, needing some work...my thumb won't allow it to happen, right now.
Need to crosscut and resaw the board below those four..into 10 rails..will also need planed..then..
364410
A few boards like this one, will need crosscut and ripped to size, then hand-planed into some raised panels..
All to be done with that Junior Jack plane....get busy.

[Michael Ray Smith]

***

Be careful, making shavings with a scrub plane is just as mesmerizing as the gossamer shavings from a freshly sharpened plane.

***

jtk

Indeed it is! I turned a Stanley 5 1/4 into a scrub plane. I bought a new blade (IBC, if I recall correctly off the top of my head), heavier than the original, and cambered it. I don't know what the radius is because I just eyeballed it. Not nearly as tight a radius as a No. 40, but far more than just enough to relieve the corners, like you'd do with a smoothing plane. I had to file open the mouth just a bit, but not very much, probably not even enough to prevent it from being returned to its original purpose. I like it so much I sold my No. 40. As, as Jim says, scrubbing a board cross grain is just as addictive as using a finely tuned smooth plane to turn off shavings that float to the ceiling. I've been known to ended up with a board 1/4" thinner than I intended because I got carried away with the scrub plane.

I don't think you'd regret turning that beat up 5 1/4 into a scrub plane.

[John Kananis]

Hi Paul, this is what I was getting at - not implying that you needed yet another plane, just judging what type of work you do based on the planes in you 'arsenal'.


OK, then one more question. I use basically two types of wood. I either order 3S from a sawyer. Not sure if that's the right nomenclature but the two faces and one edge are jointed and smooth. The second edge is live.

The second type of wood I use is kiln-dried pine from big box.

Do I even need a scrub plane? From what I can tell it's mostly used for really rough wood to prepare it for a jack and then a jointer. Or skip the jack and go straight to the jointer.

Remember, my background is building stuff out of balsa where you cut and sand and occasionally use a razor plane.

Thanks for all the help!

[lowell holmes]

Actually, it was a 1 1/4" wide iron . The #3 is 1 3/4" wide.

[Patrick Chase]

Actually, it was a 1 1/4" wide iron . The #3 is 1 3/4" wide.

You use a 1-1/4" iron in a #3 body for roughing?

There's no reason why that wouldn't work, and that's the same iron width as the #40 (Stanley's basic scrub), but I imagine it looks a little odd :-).

[steven c newman]

Considering the #40 didn't use a chipbreaker....was more like a block plane on roids..... it was a solid iron, no slots, nor holes. How one would even get it to work in a #3 plane......weird.