Dust collector automation?

[Gary Kittleson]

Another "it's on the way" dust collector question, or perhaps poll:

Do you use any DC automation, such as automatic power to the DC, or automatic blast gates? If not, has it caused you to skip turning it on for "just one cut"? If you do use them, do you like it, and would you make the same purchase again?

Thanks,

Gary

[Ron Fritz]

Gary; I don't have an automated setup, but I did install a couple 3-way switches. One that serves the RAS, the belt sander and workbench dust hose and the second between the jointer and planner. Both switches are within easy reach and never present a problem turning them on.

[John Gregory]

I use a remote control pinned to my apron. I use it 99% of the time.

[Bert Johansen]

Gary,

Like John, I use a $20 remote control that I clip on my apron. It works on 110-volts and activates a relay that turns on the 220V DC. Absolutely great way to go. I still have to open the particular blast gate for the tool I'm using, but this is a no-brainer. Much cheaper than the automatic blast gates.

Bert

[Matt Meiser]

I just recently added microswitches on each of my blast gates. They are wired to a 12V power supply and a relay which trips the magnetic starter on my blower. I found an immediate improvement in two areas. First, I am more likely to use the dust collector for those time when I have just one quick cut and the remote is sitting on the bench on the other side of the shop. Second, I tend not to leave blast gates open accidentally, resulting in reduced collection from the second location. The only drawback so far is that I have to be careful when moving from one operation to another to first open the second gate, then close the first gate to keep from cycling power to the blower too quickly. I suppose I could get around that with a timer that delays shutoff for 15 seconds, and may eventually do this.

Another piece of automation I've been wanting to add is a bin level sensor to shut down the dust collector when the bin gets too full. I've been waiting to hear of someone who's installed the Penn State unit, but now I see Bill Pentz has a DIY version posted on his site, so I might try building that and modifying it to do what I want.

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I don't use any automation, I just use a remote control. I use the DC for almost every cut.

[Ed Lang]

I use the $20 X10 remote to power on/off the ClearVue Cyclone I just installed a few weeks ago. I am also thinking about using one of the extra outputs on the Shopbot so it will cycle the power for DC when it is needed. I thought about the micro switches on blast gates but was too lazy to run wire to each of them.

Whatever you need to do to make sure that you will use the DC is worth it in the end.

[Jim Becker]

No automatic things. No remote anymore, either. Just a single switch, centrally located in my shop. I tend to turn the system on and let it run while I move from machine to machine. Very rarely do I make a cut without the DC running...and those are usually just CRS moments. ;)

[Brad Hammond]

ditto on the remote!! when i was savin up for my dc i made a point to have enough cashola to get the remote at the same time. very handy...VERY handy!

cya
brad

[JayStPeter]

I currently use a remote. My ultimate plan though is to hardwire 3 or 4 switches around the shop. I'm actually considering buttons that will act as toggles so I can turn it on or off at any location without having to remember where I originally turned it on. It will require a little more effort in making it work, but will pay off in ease of use. I have a tendency to leave my remote laying around and have to search for it often :cool: .

Jay

[Rob Russell]

I currently use a remote. My ultimate plan though is to hardwire 3 or 4 switches around the shop. I'm actually considering buttons that will act as toggles so I can turn it on or off at any location without having to remember where I originally turned it on. It will require a little more effort in making it work, but will pay off in ease of use. I have a tendency to leave my remote laying around and have to search for it often :cool: .

Jay

As long as you're not going to be super anal about all the switches pointing down when the DC is off, you can do what you want with a set of 3-way and 4-way switches plus a contactor. You could put a switch by every machine and any/all of them would work to turn the DC on or off. The only thing is that, after awhile, you'd have pairs of them pointing up when the DC was off. That's where the anal-retentive thing comes in. If having those switches pointing up would really curl your whiskers, you could do it with push-buttons but it would be a bit more complicated.

[Frank Pellow]

Knowing that I would always be searching for a remote controller :( had I used one, I opted instead for a switch to my Oneida Cyclone near each of my big machines. That system works well for me. :)

[JayStPeter]

As long as you're not going to be super anal about all the switches pointing down when the DC is off, you can do what you want with a set of 3-way and 4-way switches plus a contactor. You could put a switch by every machine and any/all of them would work to turn the DC on or off. The only thing is that, after awhile, you'd have pairs of them pointing up when the DC was off. That's where the anal-retentive thing comes in. If having those switches pointing up would really curl your whiskers, you could do it with push-buttons but it would be a bit more complicated.

Yep, I haven't really thought it through yet. I'm not anal retentive about switch positions, so whatever is the easiest out of switches or buttons will be the answer :rolleyes: .

Jay

[John Gregory]

I like this idea (http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/11463)I figured a total cost of about $100 for my shop. If you mention to Hartville that you are a woodnet member you get 15% off none sale items.

[David Duke]

When I put in my Oneida DC system I bit the bullet and put in the Ecogate control system with automatic gates at just about all openings. I put manual gates at the planer, drum sander and drill press. I figured the first two would "remind" me:eek: to manually turn on the DC while the DP is not something I use extensively.

The 4" gates aren't really that expensive all things considered but the 5" & 6" will make you think twice before buying and these are what I needed on the planer and sander thus the reason for manual.

[John Bush]

Hi Gary,
While planning my DC system I realized that if I didn't include a means to simplify its use I wouldn't turn it on or open an out-of-reach gate for a quick cut. I ended up building an attached shed so I could keep the cyclone running all the time and I installed the Ecogate system on the machines that I would be less likely to open for those quick hits. So far it is working very well and I'm glad I stepped up to the automatic system.
Keep in mind, tho, the Eco in Ecogate doesn't stand for Economical.
Definitely spendy but in the long run it will be worth it. Good luck, John.

[Jay Knepper]

I have a single switch that drops from the ceiling at the center of my shop, and tend to keep the DC running most of the time that I'm in the shop. Oneida says that the motors don't like being switched too often, and I can usually benefit from having an open gate to act as a high capacity "air cleaner".

The only problem with this scenario is constant noise, which I handle with my WorkTunes hearing protectors and WDVX.

[Daryl Upole]

I found an article in some magazine a couple years ago. It uses a current sensor that your hot wire runs though. Whenever a current is detected, it sends a signal to a relay that turns on the power to the D/C unit. I'm very happy with this system. I also have a manual override switch I can use for floor clean up, etc. You can run more than one circuit through this if you want. So, I have one 110 volt circuit and one 220 volt circuit that goes through this sensor. Any machine I want to use with the D/C system I just use on those circuits. The two parts came from Grainger - I think they were about $50.

The low voltgage blast gate relays sound ok too. But I'm happy with this because I only need power on the tool to start the D/C.

[Jim Becker]

Dale, that was Fine Woodworking. BTW, this particular thread is from 2005, but represents a subject that is always interesting.

[Don Bullock]

I have a remote for my ShopVac (that my BIL just got me for Christmas) and my DC unit came with a remote. I've found both to be very handy. Since I have to switch machines I don't leave the DC or vac on when I move the hose to a different machine.

[Jim Kountz]

I use the Multigate system with the microswitches on every blast gate. I also have a manual switch centrally located in the shop. The system works great and is very handy for me.

[Greg Just]

I only use a remote for my DC system - shop isn't big enough to justify the expense of automation - Darn - wish it were bigger so I would have to automate

[john tomljenovic]

I second using a centrally mounted switch. I personally would lose a wireless remote in like 20min.

Although I have an ecogate setup to some of the machines but not for all of them. I can manually trip the cyclone on with a couple pull chain switches hanging down from the ceiling. no matter where I am I am only a step or two from being able to turn the machine off.

[Les Derusha]

I'm using a setup from the August 2000 issue of Fine Woodworking. It senses current flow and automatically turns on the DC. It includes an override and it's served me well for the last 3 years.

[Larry Palanuk]

I integrated a logic controller and Ecogates because I got the parts for next to nothing and knew how to use PLC's. I enjoyed putting it in and enjoy having it, but if I didn't have that knowledge and access,I would stilll be happy with just a remote.

[Rick Christopherson]

An automated system would be great, but you do need to be careful with them. Frequent restarts of a motor can damage the motor due to the cumulative heating caused by the high startup current. Some systems limit the number of restarts by using an off-delay relay, which keeps the system running for several minutes after the tool has been shut off. The drawback to this is that if you know you are not going to be restarting the system for a while, you still have to listen to it run for several minutes anyway.

The blast gate switches is a nice compromise because you can decide if the system will cycle too frequently, and simply leave a blast gate open until the work is done.

Now for the Cadillac of systems, that would be Larry's PLC-based system, and it would make for a fantastic automatic system because it could be made intelligent and tailored to the type of work the shop normally performs! The PLC could be programmed to detect frequent restarts and introduce an off-delay or any other method to reduce restarts based on whatever was programmed. Oh my, it could do so much more too. For example, if someone forgot to close the garage door for a certain time, or anytime after dark, the PLC could automatically close the door to protect your tools from walking away. You could even set it up as a security system, and a bunch more. Nice Larry! (BTW, What PLC are you using?)

[scottj owen]

I have a central switch but the remote sounds like a good idea. I have a 3 phase dust collector, can you add a remote for this machine?
Thanks

[Rick Christopherson]

Scott, in order to control a 3-phase motor you need to break at least 2 of the 3 conductors, so some of the methods described previously will not work for you for having remote control from multiple locations. That is to say, you will not be able to use 3-way and 4-way switches (but see below).

In your case you must use a relay or motor contactor to control the motor. However, there is a good chance that your 3-phase motor is already controlled by a magnetic contactor, and if this is true, you are actually ahead of the game. All you would need to do is control the relay coil of the contactor, and depending on the contactor, this may be either low voltage or high voltage. If it is low voltage, then you can use telephone cable to run between your controls and the contactor. If it is high voltage, then you could use the 3-way switches described by others.

Describe how the DC is controlled right now.

[Todd Crow]

There has been an ongoing discussion of automatic gates in this thread.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=71943


Todd

[Mike Heidrick]

Another "it's on the way" dust collector question, or perhaps poll:

Do you use any DC automation, such as automatic power to the DC, or automatic blast gates? If not, has it caused you to skip turning it on for "just one cut"? If you do use them, do you like it, and would you make the same purchase again?

Thanks,

Gary

I use a remote setup and use it all the time - even for one or two cuts.
Have teh joiter and plane now attaced with flex permamnently until I run duct work. I have one other I move between the router table and the table saw.

[Larry Palanuk]

Nice Larry! (BTW, What PLC are you using?)
Rick, I am using a GE Fanuc 90-30 5-slot. And you,re right about the flexibilty. For example I hooked up my floor sweep with a single click = 3 minutes on, double click = 10 minutes on, and triple click shuts down the system if there is no other tool demanding vacuum. I am trying to think of other uses just for the fun of it.

[scottj owen]

Rick,
Thanks for info. My dust collector is currently started with a 3 phase mag switch.

[Alan Schaffter]

Another piece of automation I've been wanting to add is a bin level sensor to shut down the dust collector when the bin gets too full. I've been waiting to hear of someone who's installed the Penn State unit, but now I see Bill Pentz has a DIY version posted on his site, so I might try building that and modifying it to do what I want.


Matt here is a link to a description and pics of a bin level sensor system (http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7195&highlight=dust+alarm) I designed that is simple and cheap to make with off-the-shelf parts. For years Bill Pentz had no luck and said an optical system wouldn't work. That is why he put Sugi's system, which is a bit complicated and must be mounted in the dust drum, up on his site. I have been using my optical system for almost a year now and it works great. My DC/cyclone is not in my shop so was having trouble overflowing bin and clogging my cartridge filters before I built this system.

The beauty of my system is that if it fails because sensor or light source fails the DC still shuts down. By adjusting the length of the pipe that goes into the drum, you can make it so room is left at the top of the drum when the system activates (see second thread for diagram) (http://www.ncwoodworker.net/forums/showthread.php?t=7240&highlight=dust+alarm)

[Matt Meiser]

This thread is quite old. Since I wrote that I was looking for a solution, I bought an industrial sensor on Ebay that works well. And since that I got rid of the PLC I had running the whole thing so I need to buy a couple relays and a timer and get it all working again.

[Rick Christopherson]

This thread is quite old. Thanks for the head's-up. I hate it when someone resurrects a 2-year old thread but doesn't state that it is this old.