Starting out with chisels, hand planes, saws, etc...

[Craig Shewmake]

Ok, a little context up front. I just recently retired. I set up my 3 car garage and a little hobby wood shop. I have the basics in a table saw, band saw, jointer, planer, drill press, and combo sander. I also have some quality hand tools i.e. RO Sander, Jigsaw, and loose tenon mortiser. I have been happy creating some basic projects such as workbenches and and a BBQ rolling table etc. All good!

So I was creating some mortises the other day for another larger project and realized my one cheesy big store chisel is garbage. I would like to get a decent set of chisels, hand planes, hand saws, spoke and card shavers to add to the shop.

I realize this is a huge rabbit hole and the research I have done so far has left me more confused than ever. For one, as with most tolls the price range is immense. I certainly don't want to go the cheap route and my age and skill level doesn't warrant the top of the line tools.

So here I am basically asking where do I start? Again, thinking in terms of mid level pricing.

Is there a good set of basic chisels that are popular with hobbyists?
Same with hand saws and hand planes. What would you guys suggest as a starting set for both?

Basically I am just trying to pick your brains and see if there are mid level sets of these tools that will get me started? Just trying to avoid the pitfalls and mistakes others have made going down this rabbit hole. Where would you begin if you were to do it all aver again?

I have seen many shops with dozens and dozens of chisels, saws, and hand planes and realize you are only limited by your budget and imagination and the collection will certainly grow with time. With that said, I am just looking for a decent starting point.

Looking forward to your insight,

Craig

[Mike Henderson]

For chisels, many people say good things about the Narex chisels. Otherwise, if you want to go top-of-the line, buy just a couple of the Lee Valley PM-V11 chisels and fill in later as you need them.

If you're going to do a lot of mortises by hand, you probably want to get some pigsticker chisels. You can find very good antique ones on eBay. Again, you don't need many.

The other approach to mortises is to drill them out and then use your bench chisels to finish them.

I can't give you any advice on hand saws - I'm mostly a power tool guy for that.

If you don't have a jointer you may need some hand planes to prepare your stock. Used Stanley Bailey planes are quite sufficient. If you want to improve them, buy a modern blade for them.

Good luck,

Mike

[Oh, you also need things to sharpen the chisels and planes but that's another rabbit hole.]

[Frederick Skelly]

Everyone will have a different opinion here - there are a lot of variables. Here's my thoughts.

Restoring old tools is always an option, if you have time, inclination and a supply of them. If not, buy new tools.

Chisels: A set of Narex bench chisels from Lee Valley will cost you less than $100.

Saws: Likewise, a set of 2 Veritas carcass saws will cost you $140. They aren't Bad Axe but I have 3 and they are very functional. Woodcraft has them on sale right now.

Planes? Hold your breath - new ones cost real money. Veritas is middle of the road and very respectable. Get one of their #4's (a good size to start with for many kinds of work) - it sells just under $300. And get one of Lie Neilson's #102 low angle block planes for $115.

Edit: Sharpening chisels and planes. Craig, do yourself a favor. Just bite the bullet and buy the Tormek T7 for $700. Otherwise, you'll end up sucked in and will spend a devil of a lot more buying this stone and that gizmo until you find something that suits you. I have spent probably $1500 horsing around with sharpening since I started out using sandpaper. Dumb dumb dumb dumb. Just pay the toll and get it over with. The Tormek is flawless. :)

Hope it helps.
Fred

[Rich Colvin]

I've had a Tormek for 15 years, and I really find it awesome. As a woodturner, the very quick repeatability means I sharpen when I should.

For bench chisels, I am a big fan of Two Cherries.

Rich

[Craig Shewmake]

Thanks for the quick reply. I have seen a lot of recommendations for the Lee Valley Chisels. Most my work for now with mortises will be cleaning up and squaring the edges as opposed to total hand made. As for the saws, I too have all the power tools but wanted a small set of hand ones for quick work.

I do have a jointer and love it. I just wanted to get some planes mostly for small fishes work. Boy they are expensive though. :)

[Craig Shewmake]

Thanks Fred. The reason I posted today was to here things like your recommendation for the Tormek. I know how easy it is to waste money going down unknown paths and wish to avoid that. Not just for the monetary reasons. but time as well.

I'll check out other recommendations as well.

[Craig Shewmake]

Since a lathe (yet another researching project) is on my radar I think getting a proper and well recommended sharpening system is a must. Looking up the two cherries...

Thanks for the reply!!!

[Archie England]

A really solid middle of the road chisel set is by Ashley Iles. They have very thin lands, which are excellent for cutting dovetails; however, I'm not sure if they're stout enough for chopping deep mortises. OTOH, they'd be excellent for any clean up work.
I second the mention of the LV saw set for a starter; but I've rehabbed old Disston's and love them.

I also affirm the vintage Stanley Bailey hand planes; but buy some already restored. Sharpening is a key skill to acquire; as others above have indicated, the Tormek is stupid-proof and works well. Nevertheless, it's expensive and until I got one, I would never have thought it worth that high cost; but it's not fast and not the only method that works. Sandpaper, quality oil stones, water stones, ceramic stones, and more work also. What you gain in speed for some is at the expense of a shorter life; or what you gain in great finishes means sacrificing all speed for fixing nicks. In the end, most any system of sharpening becomes expensive over time so the Tormek (or the even better knife maker belt machines ~$2k) becomes more affordable (well, maybe not the knife machine--but it's blazingly fast).

Like you, I started mostly with power tools, and I still have a TS and bandsaw. Fighting the micro dust issue pushed me down the road toward handtools, and now they are taking over, especially after my good friend lost two fingers on his bandsaw and the surgeon of our local club did his lecture on TS injuries. Yikes, I want to keep all ten digits. That said, I've had a couple of nasty cuts with chisels or lathe turning tools. Sober and careful must remain my governing shop words.

Best wishes on your shop and shop time. I'm still a few years shy of 60, so I'm taking notes on how you guys are handling these retired days.

[Prashun Patel]

Buy your tools as slowly as you can. there is no good starter set of saws or planes.

Veritas and lie Nielsen are great places to shop. You can trust all of their tools for quality if you can afford them. Saws and planes are expensive and I suggest you buy them one at a time.

[David Eisenhauer]

My thoughts on chisels - I won't name a particular brand (there are several that will do the job) but do recommend that you buy decent quality upfront rather than more big store cheesers. The Narex brand has been touted by many as a very good lower cost alternative to higher priced brands and I also believe that the Ashley Iles fit the description of a lower cost "good" chisel. I will suggest that you do not need to buy a full (all sizes) set of a particular brand and may want to consider starting with say a 1/4", 1/2" and perhaps either a 3/4" or 1" for wider work and then add chisels to the set as the need for other sizes come up. You may or may not want to stay with the same brand after starting out. Not all chisels feel right in everyone's hands and the feel of the chisel is as important as the steel in my opinion.

As for saws, the Veritas saws have also been held up as very good saws for way less money than some of the higher priced brands. As far as it goes, lots of the Lee Valley/Veritas stuff is considered to be of good/very good quality and lower priced than some of the boutique brand stuff, especially for starting out and not sure about staying with the hand tool ride all the way.

As mentioned above, you will need to get into sharpening very soon after buying tools, so do some reading on older sharpening threads to see what you want to try. This is important, because chisels and plane irons (not saws nearly as quickly) will soon need sharpening and nothing like dull tools will drive you away quicker from hand tool work.

Planes - it seems to break down into two basic camps: Buy new or refurbish older (metal) Stanleys, with a lower percentage of folks trying out wooden planes. As already said above, (and duck now for the alternatives to come at you hard and fast), get a general smoothing plane like a number 4 because you have some power equipment to get you through the main milling stages. There is a DVD called Corse, Medium and Fine (I think) by Christopher Schwarz that describes the basic evolution of working wood for a project. Your call on buying new or refurbishing. Money, personal likes/dislikes and patience levels will dictate your own preference.

Buy an item and try it out for a while to get familiar with it before buying a bunch of more stuff. To repeat, if you don't get comfortable with sharpening, you will not enjoy hand tool working and this needs to start soon in the evolution. If there is any way at all, find someone local that has started down the hand tool path in front of you and see if you can get a "hands on" tool tryout and their thoughts on why they went the way they did. A guy named Paul Sellers has some good "how to get started" type videos on You tube (plus others for sale) that are a good starting point for information on using the tools. Enjoy.

[Hasin Haroon]

Hi Craig,

If you are certain you will do woodworking for a while, you're better off buying the best tools you can afford at the beginning. Doesn't mean you need to buy them all at once, or that they need to be top of the line.

Chisels:
I would strongly recommend Ashley Iles Chisels. They are a top quality chisel but don't cost as much as they could. Narex is also a solid choice, and a little cheaper. Like someone already said, you don't need too many sizes to begin with. Start with a 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2".

Saws:
Some others have recommended the Veritas backsaws. They are great saws and come sharp and ready to go. However, you can get second hand saws for much cheaper if you're willing to take the time to learn to sharpen, or get them sharpened. A vintage backsaw/panel saw in good shape, properly sharpened is as good as any brand new one.

Planes:
Top of the line production planes are Veritas and Lie Nielsen. You won't go wrong with either, and quality wise they are the same. I would disagree with Frederick on calling Veritas mid-level for planes - you'll find no appreciable difference in quality between their's and LN. Mid level would be a Luban or Wood River plane. You can't go wrong buying vintage stanley or record planes, if you're retired and not too busy, you might have time to fettle them into great users. A properly set up old stanley plane is as good as any. If you don't want to spend time restoring old planes and want one new plane that you can use for a lot of purposes - get a Veritas Low Angle Jack plane. Down the line you can invest in new blades and it'll do everything pretty well.

Lathe:
You mentioned wanting a lathe - if you only plan on turning small items like tool handles, pens and mallets, you can get a mini lathe on craigslist/kijiji pretty easily for a great price. Heck, you can get a full size lathe for a steal quite often, and they often come with a full set of turning tools.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

For planes, mid-level is basically the old Stanley, Record, Sargent models that are floating around. If you don't know what you are doing, I would recommend posting a wanted to buy in the classifieds here. You may not get any response, but it will cost you nothing, and somebody might be able to help you out with something in usable shape without breaking the bank. Otherwise, you can buy from yard sales, ebay, etc., which is always a crap shoot for someone who does not know what to look for. Or you can pay more from a reputable dealer (Patrick Leach, Jim Bode) and have more confidence you have something that will make a good user, after a little tuning. Lots of folks here will be happy to help you troubleshoot.

Veritas, Lie-Nielsen, and the other modern manufacturers are not really mid-level in my book. They are more premium lines, which work very well out of the box, but you will pay for that.

New or used, a basic set of planes that is often recommended would be a smoother, jointer, and jack (Stanley No. 4, 5, 7 for example). Jack set up for more heavy stock removal, jointer set to take a finer shaving and get things really flat, smoother for the super fine shavings everyone loves, and for finishing the surface. I would suggest you start with one, maybe a smoother. Another good first plane would be a low angle block plane. Either way, if you don't like it, you can find out before you buy a bunch of the things. There seem to be a lot of people who like the idea of using planes a lot more than they do actually using them.

For chisels, you do have low, middle, high options in new manufacture. I would stay away from the hardware store chisels (although they are what I used for years). If you want cheaper, the Narex are often recommended. If you want a middle ground, I would recommend you look at the Ashley Iles bench chisels (not to be confused with the Ray Iles mortise chisels). They are about $30 each, but I like mine a lot. The Lee Valley or Lie Nielsen will be about twice that. Antique chisels can be very good, but when I was looking for chisels last year the good antiques seem to be about $20-$30 each. Premium chisels would be something like the Blue Spruce, which I think are about $100 each.

As far as saws go, if you have a bandsaw you do not need to be in a hurry. I agree the Veritas saws are very good. It can be hard to find a used backsaw in decent shape (the larger saws seem to be everywhere). If you are looking used, Disston, Atkins, are good names. There are others.

As far as sharpening, you can spend as much as you want to. Keep in mind that your choice of tools will have an effect on your sharpening choices. If you buy new tools made of supersteels (A2, PMV-11, D2), you will limit the types of stones you can use to sharpen them (oilstones will be out for example). I stick to vintage steel and O1 partly because they are easier to sharpen. I have a grinder, and a 1000/8000 grit Norton stone ($75 on Amazon), plus a stick of green honing compound ($10 from Lee Valley), and really don't know why I would need anything else.

Somebody asked about sharpening earlier today, and one of the good comments was to stick to whatever system you have for at least a year. It is too easy to decide you need some other gadget to get your tools sharp, when often people have all they really need, and just need more practice.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Craig and welcome to the cave by the Creek.


I also have some quality hand tools i.e. RO Sander, Jigsaw, and loose tenon mortiser.

LOL! :D When you get to be like me even my cordless drill is a power tool unless it has a crank.

It is difficult to make suggestions of what another woodworker should acquire without knowing more about what they want to do.

For saws, if it is mostly for joinery the Veritas are about the best bang for the buck. To do any better you will need to learn sharpening and go out and hunt for them. If you are looking for an inexpensive saw to break down longer pieces without having to fire up the table saw there are some usable saws at the big box stores. My last 'cheap' saw came from Home Depot. It was bought for my son about 20 years ago. It is mostly used out in the wood shed on firewood. It was $10 new. Impulse hardened teeth stay sharp longer, but they aren't made to be resharpened.

Narex chisels have already been mentioned and many folks have spoken well of them. My 1/4" mortise chisel came is a Narex and it works fine. For me the handle size might not suit me for their bench chisels. One of my most used sets are old Buck Brothers socket chisels. If this set of modern American made Buck Bros. tang chisels is as good as the old Buck Brothers They would get my recommendation. Currently they are on sale at $89.99 for a 9 piece set, $64.99 for a 6 piece set.

http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/Buck-Bros-Bench-Chisels-p/c007301-base.htm

My 1-1/4" & 1-1/2" chisels get used often, not so much the 2". My preference is to maintain different sets of chisels for different uses. My Buck Brothers chisels are mostly for paring and the bevel is ~15-20º. My Witherby chisels are for heavier work and the bevel is in the 25-30º range. There is also a set of shorter 'butt' chisels for hinge mortises and other close work. There are a few mortise chisels and a bunch of other heavy chisels for chopping and other heavy cutting. Many people can get by with only one or two sets.

Hand planes is another matter. My choice when available is old Stanley/Bailey planes. If you are comfortable doing the work needed to get one back in shape they can be had very inexpensively if you are willing to hunt for them. Buy them from a hunter and you will pay a little more. The #4 & #5 are the most common sizes found. You may be able to get by with just those sizes. It might be possible to find them in a pawn shop. Most people can get things done with just two or three planes. A #6, #7 or #8 would be a handy size to have if you are going to work longer pieces. If you work smaller pieces then a #3 & #5-1/4 might be better.

If you want to learn more about the different planes and their uses, check > http://www.supertool.com < Patrick Leach's Blood & Gore has a lot of information. If you like a good read and enjoy seeing pictures of tools you haven't seen sign up for his monthly list. It is amazing how much free information he gives away.

Keep an eye or place a "want to buy" add in the SMC Classifieds. Craigslist might be another good source.

For new planes my preference would be Lee Valley or Lie-Nielsen, both are North American makers who have earned their customers respect and appreciation.

There are some other, lower priced, planes but my experience with them is nil.

Many people like a wheel grinder, like the Tormek, for their chisels and plane irons. These types of grinders produce what is known as a hollow grind. It is easier when freehand sharpening as it registers unmistakably on the stone. My grinder, the Veritas Mk II Power Sharpening System, makes a flat bevel. Since the abrasive sheets are different thickness the machine automatically makes a secondary bevel. With a little ingenuity it easy to undo this 'feature'. Also if one isn't attentive to the details a flat abrasive disk can cause a slight skew to a blade. Another easy to counteract anomaly.

Once one becomes accustomed to honing a flat bevel it isn't difficult.

My use of the Veritas Mk II has changed over the years. At first a lot of tools were being bought and restored. Now it is not used as often. One thing positive about working with a single flat bevel is it doesn't have to be reground as long as one can maintain the bevel. With a secondary bevel or a hollow grind the blade will have to be taken back to the grinder to keep a hollow grind or to renew the bevel if the secondary bevel becomes to large.

jtk

[Nathan Johnson]

I am just starting down the hand tool rabbit hole myself. I've now got more vintage tools in need of restoration than I care to mention. So much so, that I've been selling some off and having a bit of a talk with myself. However, plane restoration has been an invaluable education. I also do own one new Woodriver plane, and while I like it, I think I like my Stanleys a bit better.

As I watched videos and read a lot online, I came to the realization that I wanted sharpening to be fast, easy, and not messy, so I chose diamond plates and a strop after watching Paul Sellers. I'm happy that I landed there and have felt no need to explore the endless options available.

I'm nowhere near retirement age, but I recently had a second shoulder reconstruction and am just dealing with the arthritis until I'm old enough for replacement. I mention this to say that I've found the Japanese saws to be much more comfortable and easier for me to use than western saws. An added benefit there is not needing sharpening equipment (or skill) right off the bat. When they dull, I'll pop a new blade in.

I guess my first suggestion is find a #5 to restore and make her sing. They're cheap and plentiful, and it's a low cost education. Build from there.
Second suggestion: show restraint! You don't need all the tools right away. I'm just now figuring this out. Ha.

[Craig Shewmake]

Thank You all for the detailed responses. They give me a lot of information and places to start looking and shopping. These forums here at Sawmill are such a treasure trove of information and all you guys just see to go above and beyond with your responses. It is noticed and so very welcome so thank you...

[Mike Henderson]

Everybody has their own technique for sharpening chisels - including me. I have a web page where I explain how I sharpen - you can see it here (http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/SharpeningChisels.htm).

I wanted a technique that was fast and reasonably priced. I went down a number of paths before I got to the one I use now.

Mike

[Frederick Skelly]

I would disagree with Frederick on calling Veritas mid-level for planes - you'll find no appreciable difference in quality between their's and LN. Mid level would be a Luban or Wood River plane.

You're right Hasin. Mid-level was a poor choice of words. Mid-priced (for the range of new planes I've purchased) is really what I was thinking - priced between Wood River and LN. For the record, I have several Veritas planes and I agree there's "no appreciable difference in quality between their's and LN".

Craig, I have two Wood River bench planes. They are a very good quality knock-off of the LN. You can get them on sale from Woodcraft a couple times each year. They are worth the money, IMO.

Fred

[steven c newman]

You might like to look at one of my build along threads, and see what some of my users look like.

Afraid though, I am on almost zero budget for tools in my shop...don't have the extra funds for new tooling, need that kind of cash for rent and utilities....when a plane costs more than my monthly rent?

I usually find that is what a tool can do is more important the how much it cost. I spent a lot of time over the years, finding tools that worked FOR me in what I was doing. however..you do NOT need to have $1000s wrapped up in tools to be a good woodworker.....it is in how well YOU use the tools.

[Hasin Haroon]

Very true about the price points Frederick!

[andy bessette]

...Is there a good set of basic chisels that are popular with hobbyists?...

I wouldn't know what is popular with hobbyists, and wouldn't care. But, having been a woodworking professional for over 40 years I would recommend a small, basic set of Japanese chisels, a low angle block plane and a jack by Stanley or Record, at least a Japanese Razor saw, to start, and a couple water stones. Or equivalent. Check out "The Japan Woodworker" store. But also watch for deals on used equipment in excellent condition.

[Patrick Chase]

I also have some quality hand tools i.e. RO Sander, Jigsaw, and loose tenon mortiser.

Describing those as "hand tools" on the neander forum is trolling of the first order... :-)

[Patrick Chase]

For chisels, many people say good things about the Narex chisels. Otherwise, if you want to go top-of-the line, buy just a couple of the Lee Valley PM-V11 chisels and fill in later as you need them.

I have both the Narex bench chisels and the PM-V11 LVs. They both work well, with the LVs having a few advantages:


In my experience PM-V11 hones to a finer edge and is more durable and abrasion-resistant.
The LVs require less preparation work. LV laps their blades after hardening, which means that they come dead flat and finely finished. The Narex chisels are ground before hardening like most cheaper tools, and every so often you get one that takes a fair amount of work to even get the first ~inch of the back flat.
The LVs are more finely made, with side bevels extending all the way to the back. For me this wasn't such a huge advantage since I'm comfortable refining the side bevels on a belt grinder (and have done so with my Narex chisels). If you're not into that sort of thing then it might matter though.

Of course the LVs have one particularly painful drawback, namely that they cost ~5X as much :-).



If you're going to do a lot of mortises by hand, you probably want to get some pigsticker chisels. You can find very good antique ones on eBay. Again, you don't need many.

He's got a Domino for that. It was on his list of "hand tools" that he already owns :-)

[Patrick Chase]

Planes? Hold your breath - new ones cost real money. Veritas is middle of the road and very respectable. Get one of their #4's (a good size to start with for many kinds of work) - it sells just under $300.

The Veritas "classic 4 (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/Page.aspx?p=46294&cat=1,41182,41187,46294)" is $220 and a great value in a new plane IMO. The $290 Custom #4 (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=72531&cat=1,41182,72530) has what most people would probably consider better aesthetics, but unless you actually plan to customize it won't do anything more (or better) than the older one. I have both, of course :-).

[Craig Shewmake]

Describing those as "hand tools" on the neander forum is trolling of the first order... :-)

My bad. :(

I was just meaning "other than my big machines". Maybe hand held machinery? :)

[William Fretwell]

The gradual acquisition of tools that suit your woodworking will ensure less wasted money and wasted space in your workshop.

There is a 'leap of faith' in a tool purchase, the guidance here is useful. Narex chisels for example are great value and after you 10 hours or more into the set honing them they are very usable.

[Archie England]

I usually find that is what a tool can do is more important the how much it cost. I spent a lot of time over the years, finding tools that worked FOR me in what I was doing. however..you do NOT need to have $1000s wrapped up in tools to be a good woodworker.....it is in how well YOU use the tools.

Steve, that's my experience; better tools have not made me a better woodworker . . . but it has made me poorer and happier :)

[Paul K. Johnson]

I only had one chisel and it worked fine but I used it for all kinds of things including cutting off nails when the carpet was pulled exposing the terrazo underneath. When I tried pulling the nails the terrazo would break up around it. So I used my chisel.

I bought a set of Narex several months ago and really like them. I'm not well-versed enough in chisels to really have an opinion and have no experience with others to compare.

They sharpen easily and stay sharp a long time. I was looking for quality and when I was looking they seemed the most economical for a competent chisel.

This is the set I bought (they were closer to $90 at the time) and I would buy them again even at their current price.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0113MN4T2/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Prashun Patel]

https://www.amazon.com/Narex-Republic-Woodworking-Chisels-863010/dp/B00GPC74ZQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1500306381&sr=8-1&keywords=narex+chisels

(Personal opinion): I wouldn't spend $100. This 4-chisel bench set will do you fine until you wish to upgrade.

[Nathan Johnson]

I liked the idea of the Narex to start out with also, but I paid another $10 to have the more attractive (in my opinion) handles.

https://www.amazon.com/Narex-Premium-Chisels-Hornbeam-Handles/dp/B00H6RD4PI/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1500307819&sr=8-3&keywords=narex+chisels

[Frederick Skelly]

The Veritas "classic 4 (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/Page.aspx?p=46294&cat=1,41182,41187,46294)" is $220 and a great value in a new plane IMO. The $290 Custom #4 (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=72531&cat=1,41182,72530) has what most people would probably consider better aesthetics, but unless you actually plan to customize it won't do anything more (or better) than the older one. I have both, of course :-).

Yup. Looks like my search for "#4" on their website brought up the custom plane. So it's cheaper still. Even better.

[Jim Koepke]

Take notice of the three Narex sets linked above two of the sets are metric sizes and the large set says it is "true imperial" sizing.

Most of my chisels are in imperial (inch) sizes. There are a few in metric for when they are needed.

jtk

[Robert Engel]

I agree with Prashun. I have the 6 chisel set and use 1", 3/4" and 3/8" 90% of the time. When I bought my Narex chisels there were two types. The "Premiums" have thinner side bevel heights which are nice for dovetails.

I think its a good idea to have a second set of firmer type chisels. For cleaning up mortises, glue, rough chopping, etc. In my case, I have the Irwin Marples which BTW were the first chisels I owned and I chopped many a dovetail with them just fine. With any of the low quality chisels the issue is steel quality. Be prepared to spend a lot of time flattening the backs.

I think the Veritas joinery hand saw set is an excellent value. No, not the best saws in the world, but they do quite well.

Hand planes: you will have to decide new or used (which will ultimately get you in to the whole refurb issue). After going the antique Stanley route for a while, I decided to break down and buy a LN 4 1/2. Like going from a VW to a Porsche.

I have had very good luck with the WoodRiver planes. I actually think they stack up quite well against even the LN's.

I recommend starting out with, and staying with, hand sharpening with stones. I abandoned the jigs long ago. You will need a bench grinder if you want to hollow grind (I recommend it).

Last but not least, your measuring tools. IMO you should buy a 12" Starret combo square right from the start and be done with it.

I generally buy tools as a project demands. For example in my workbench build I purchased the LN rabbet block plane and the Veritas large router plane to clean up the large tenons. These are two extremely handy planes to have.

[paul cottingham]

My $.02: the Narex are great chisels for the money, but mine needed a lot of work to flatten the backs. I wound up "lending" them to a friend one at a time, as I replaced them with the LV ones. Mind you, I only have 1/4" 1/2" 3/4" and 1" LV in pmv11 steel, and that has worked out great for me. At some point I will buy a 3/8", but it's been several years, and I haven't missed it yet. Oh, and a narex parer.

As for planes, I went LV all the way, with a few vintage thrown in. I am mostly a Neander, but I think most of the planes I use regularly would suit a power tool guy. My stable includes an LV bevel up jointer, a regular smoother, and bevel up jack. I also have a BD jack from millers falls. I round it out with an LV router plane, an LV plow, and an LV skew rabbet. Being a woodworker, of course I have more, but these are the planes I would not be without. The handles on all of them hurt my pushing hand, but I have bad neuropathy in it, and I'm sure you will be fine. It's bad enough that I use a left handed plow, and either pull it, (right handed) or push it left handed, depending on my mood. I usually only pull after the groove is established. Works well.

For saws, all my joinery saws but 2 are LV. I got my hands on a Bad Axe sash saw, and a "glory days" (pre WWII) Disston tenon saw. All my hand saws, crosscut and rip are pre WWII saws, disston and Adkins. You don't need many, I started with a 4 point rip, 8 point rip and crosscut, and a 12 point crosscut. They meet my needs fine. Of course, I caught "the saw disease" and now have many more, mostly given to me.

I almost forgot: spokshaves are important. I have 3 and they have met my needs: a flat and round bottom LV and a wooden low angle one I made from a kit.

[Graham Haydon]

Hi Craig

I think you'll find adding some hand tools to your work will be very helpful. I'll keep it simple and concise, many options out there but I think these should be helpful.

Chisels - Narex 8116, set of four

Sharpen them - Norton India 8 x 2 combo stone and honing oil, block of hardwood with some LV honing compound (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=32984&cat=1,43072)

Saw - LV Carcass Saw Rip Cut (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=66066&cat=1,42884,68511). If it does not do all the work effectively, add a cross cut.

Planes - Smoother Lie Nielsen #4 (https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/standard-bench-planes/no.-4-smooth-plane?node=4171) iron body, or WoodRiver #4 (https://rob-cosman-your-hand-tool-coach.myshopify.com/collections/hand-planes/products/woodriver-4-smooth-plane). Block Plane Lie Nielsen 60 1/2 (https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/block-planes/adjustable-mouth-block-planes-?node=4072), WoodRiver (https://rob-cosman-your-hand-tool-coach.myshopify.com/collections/hand-planes/products/woodriver-low-angle-block-plane) or Veritas (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=61963&cat=1,41182,48942,61963)

Spokeshave - Vintage Stanley 151 flat bottom shave

Card Scrapers - Pick up some cheap, softer scrapers. The very hard scrapers aren't much fun. Add a file and a burnisher to sharpen them, with a soft scraper a screwdriver shaft might be enough to turn a burr.

The planes, chisels and saws would not be my choice but based on the description of your situation I think they would work well.

[Patrick Chase]

My $.02: the Narex are great chisels for the money, but mine needed a lot of work to flatten the backs. I wound up "lending" them to a friend one at a time, as I replaced them with the LV ones.

I mentioned this as well in my previous post, but it's probably worth reinforcing: Of all of the chisels I've prepared (several sets of my own and a few more given as gifts to friends or relatives) the Narex ones have probably taken the most work to prepare to my satisfaction.

Narex is somewhat unique in that they use an austempering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austempering) process for heat treatment. Austempering ordinarily results in less deformation than conventional heat treatment, but I suspect that Narex saves on cost by only machining before heat-treatment. While the resulting tools have better geometry than would a conventionally treated chisel that was only pre-machined, they're not as flat as ones that are machined after heat treatment. That's one of the things you're paying for with an L-N or LV chisel (FWIW the LVs have the best machining/lapping I've ever seen).


Oh, and a narex parer.

Speaking of difficult chisels to prepare, my set of Narex parers were the most difficult ones I've ever handled. IIRC the 1" one was significantly bellied, and the others were no picnic.

The Narex bench chisels are fairly manageable if you know what you're doing. I recently bought my father in law a set of 4, and they took me a few hours all totaled. I worked them using diamond paste on plates. I didn't have to resort to a grinder (Tormek or disc).

EDIT:

The Narex chisels do have one other unique tendency that's probably worth mentioning: They "self dub" a tiny bit on the back whenever you grind a significant amount from the bevel. I suspect that this happens because of the residual stress distribution after heat treatment, specifically that the core is in tension while the skin is in compression. Grinding the core away adjacent to any given patch of skin therefore causes it to curl inward a tiny bit.

You have to be fairly "detail oriented" to notice this at all, and if it bothers you it can be corrected by lapping the back a little bit whenever you regrind the primary bevel.

[Frederick Skelly]

Speaking of difficult chisels to prepare, my set of Narex parers were the most difficult ones I've ever handled. IIRC the 1" one was significantly bellied, and the others were no picnic.

Yes, I saw this with a couple of mine too. I bought mine as soon as LV introduced them as a set. I worked my tail off to get them right. I was hoping mine was an anomaly, but apparently not based on your story.

[Patrick Chase]

Yes, I saw this with a couple of mine too. I bought mine as soon as LV introduced them as a set. I worked my tail off to get them right. I was hoping mine was an anomaly, but apparently not based on your story.

Making chisels that long and keeping them reasonably flat is difficult, particularly if you don't post-machine. There's a good reason why most of the other paring chisels on the market (Blue Spruce, Sorby, etc) are so expensive. Blue Spruce in particular does a *lot* of post-machining.

[Patrick Chase]

Narex is somewhat unique in that they use an austempering (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austempering) process for heat treatment. Austempering ordinarily results in less deformation than conventional heat treatment, but I suspect that Narex saves on cost by only machining before heat-treatment. While the resulting tools have better geometry than would a conventionally treated chisel that was only pre-machined, they're not as flat as ones that are machined after heat treatment. That's one of the things you're paying for with an L-N or LV chisel (FWIW the LVs have the best machining/lapping I've ever seen).

Sorry for the post-spam, but Narex confirms here (http://www.narexchisels.com/Narex_Chisels/Narex_Cr-Mn_Steel.html) that they don't machine their chisels after heat treatment. See the last paragraph. The rest of that page is a very rough layman's description of austempering. The Wikipedia page is better IMO.

[Craig Shewmake]

Well, it's my birthday in a couple weeks so I splurged and spent a little cash. It didn't hurt that I won $250 tonight on the Lakers winning the summer league. :)

So i picked up the 5 piece set of Veritas PM-V11's (1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 3/4", 1"). I have no desire to refurbish any vintage chisels or planes and after watching numerous videos and reading a lot of reviews and recommendations here in the threads I thought I would buy once and cry once and have minimal sharpening and honing out of the box as I take the time to learn the sharpening skills. :) The will no doubt be more than adequate for my meager needs.

Now it's on to the block and smother planes! I don't think I would have much need for a jack plane at this time since I mill larger stock with the jointer and planer. Read up bunch last night and am more confused than ever with the bevel up vs. bevel down offerings. I'm thinking the Veritas line here is what is in my future. The Lie Nielsens look so cool and get a lot of favorable reviews but they are expensive and more than I would need. On to the videos to look at block, smother, and spoke shavers with all your thoughtful suggestions in tow! Wooo hoooo!!!!

[andy bessette]

Good choice on the chisels.

[Prashun Patel]

How are you sharpening? I would focus there before you go into planes.

Your plane preferences will be highly personal. Plan for the first step on the journey, not the destination. You'll have to just get one and start using it. Go from there. My personal favorite is the Lie Nielsen #4, but that's today. For block planes, you may prefer the smaller 102 or apron style to the adjustable 60 1/2 style. That depends on hand size and what you use it for.

I will say also that there is a temptation to jump into bevel up planes in the past couple years (guilty as charged). They are fantastic and have their place, but don't confuse them as being something new or better than BD. They are just different.

But sharpening makes everything possible or impossible.

[Archie England]

Block plane suggestion... LN vs LV. Both work superbly, yet in this regard my vintage Stanley's work great, as well. I had to tune up most of my vintage ones, the LN and LV worked flawlessly right out of the box. IMO there's a likely need for one of each when referring to BU or BD. For normal hand planing, the BDs are everything I need until I need to dress end grain or gnarly grain. Probably, the BU could do it all, too, but that's beyond my knowledge to comment.

[Frederick Skelly]

Craig,

You cannot go wrong with Veritas or Lie Neilsen. You can do "eeny meeny miney moe" or toss a coin and still end up with a tool you will love. (I own both brands.)

Fred

[Mike Henderson]

Block plane suggestion... LN vs LV. Both work superbly, yet in this regard my vintage Stanley's work great, as well. I had to tune up most of my vintage ones, the LN and LV worked flawlessly right out of the box. IMO there's a likely need for one of each when referring to BU or BD. For normal hand planing, the BDs are everything I need until I need to dress end grain or gnarly grain. Probably, the BU could do it all, too, but that's beyond my knowledge to comment.

I agree with Archie. An old block plane with a modern blade will work as well as a new block plane. Just make sure there's no cracks in the body of the plane.

Mike

[Hasin Haroon]

Craig, don't rule out a bevel up jack. It'll smooth just as well and also joint. In fact the one thing you might not be able to do at this point with a brand new BU jack is the rough work - you'd have to fiddle with cambering a thick blade to do that.

[Patrick Chase]

Craig, don't rule out a bevel up jack. It'll smooth just as well and also joint. In fact the one thing you might not be able to do at this point with a brand new BU jack is the rough work - you'd have to fiddle with cambering a thick blade to do that.

If you changed "it will smooth just as well" to "it will smooth well enough to get you up and running" then I'd completely agree.

Relying on a single iron sacrifices some important options/capabilities for managing tearout in difficult wood, so I don't think you can reasonably argue that it's equal to a double-iron bench plane for smoothing.

[William Fretwell]

I would stay away from bevel up planes except a low angle block plane. The blades are so thick you need a grinder to hollow grind them or you spend all your shop time sharpening them. They can work well in some woods but difficult grain can be very frustrating. Chip breakers on planes when properly set up greatly reduce tear out. You will need to hone the parts to fit carefully but once you have they work very well. A bevel up jack can make a decent wide mouth scrub plane, but the blade will still need sharpening.

[Stewie Simpson]

Our low-angle jack plane is ideal for shooting miters, working end grain, and initial smoothing. http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/Page.aspx?p=49708&cat=1,41182,41186,49708

[Frederick Skelly]

I would stay away from bevel up planes except a low angle block plane. The blades are so thick you need a grinder to hollow grind them or you spend all your shop time sharpening them. They can work well in some woods but difficult grain can be very frustrating.

Well, I guess we've had different experiences William. I sharpened mine for quite some time without a grinder and didnt take excessively long. Also, mine worked very well on the two sections of 3" x 20" end grain of my butcher block. BU vs BD - to each his own I guess.
Fred

[Craig Shewmake]

Well. Today was/is a good day for me I guess. I hear the door bell and open it up and find a package on the doorstep. UPS guys here drop and dash. lol. Low and behold, my girlfriend says, "I saw you looking at them the other day and you left the page on you laptop. Happy early birthday and now go sharpen our knives." lol

Woooo Hooooo!

http://i.imgur.com/8BePLeg.jpg

[Mike Baker 2]

Absolutely awesome, Craig!
Now go sharpen those knives. Time enough for the wood tools later. Better keep that one happy! :D

[Patrick Chase]

I would stay away from bevel up planes except a low angle block plane. The blades are so thick you need a grinder to hollow grind them or you spend all your shop time sharpening them. They can work well in some woods but difficult grain can be very frustrating. Chip breakers on planes when properly set up greatly reduce tear out. You will need to hone the parts to fit carefully but once you have they work very well. A bevel up jack can make a decent wide mouth scrub plane, but the blade will still need sharpening.

This seems overstated in my experience, but then again I hollow-grind :-).

You can manage tearout in BU planes with a combination of cutting angle (i.e. blade bevel angle) and possibly a tight mouth. IMO the resulting tradeoff space between surface sheen/depth, planing effort, and tearout suppression isn't quite as favorable as you can obtain with a cap iron, which is what I was driving at in my previous comment. With that said, lots of people have done better work than I ever could that way.

[Craig Shewmake]

Absolutely awesome, Craig!
Now go sharpen those knives. Time enough for the wood tools later. Better keep that one happy! :D

Dont I know it.

Just like I know there's a "wouldn't some new drapes look good here" coming too. :)

[Frederick Skelly]

http://i.imgur.com/8BePLeg.jpg

You are a lucky dude.

[William Fretwell]

Well, I guess we've had different experiences William. I sharpened mine for quite some time without a grinder and didnt take excessively long. Also, mine worked very well on the two sections of 3" x 20" end grain of my butcher block. BU vs BD - to each his own I guess.
Fred
Precisely Fred! They work for a while without a grinder, then you have to have one! Small sections of end grain are not so bad but difficult reversing grain is a different story. Keep using them on various woods and you will get fed up with their faults just like me!

[Mike Baker 2]

Dont I know it.

Just like I know there's a "wouldn't some new drapes look good here" coming too. :)
Hey, one good turn deserves another!