Running edges through a planer..

[Evan Stewart]

I just saw an article titled "Getting the most out of your planer" one of the tips was making a jig to hold boards at 90 degrees in order to plane edges. I have run small boards through on edge maybe a handful of times but it is not something I generally do. My usual routine is from rough cut; plane to thickness, run straightest side through jointer and then rip width on table saw after that I may joint pieces on the router table if necessary. How many of you run cut pieces through the planer on edge as part of your normal routine? Do you find that it is easier to get consistent dimensions by doing this as opposed to using just the table saw even with the possibility of chip out, chatter etc. ?

[Mark Wooden]

I almost always size material on edge in the planer as long as I'm doing multiple pieces; I put them together as wide as I can grip them in my hand, feed them into the planer jointed side down and keep them together with my hand so they're going through as a single piece, switch to the out feed when they're almost all the way through.
I usually don't do it with single pieces.

[Brian W Evans]

There was a thread about this (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?255159-Using-a-planner-to-make-identical-board-widths) not long ago. Seems to be a common practice.

[Matt Day]

I do it pretty often but it doesn't produce a glue line ready cut.

[Yonak Hawkins]

...it doesn't produce a glue line ready cut.

Matt : Why not ?

[Matt Day]

I don't know exactly. I've got a 15" 4 post planer that produces a great surface after face planing but scallops on edge. It's not the rollers either.

[Bill Space]

I posted a question about this recently. Seems everyone does it. Afterwards I tried it and it worked well for me.

Since I lowered my bed rollers snipe has not been an issue whether planing flat or on edge.

Grizzly four post 15" planer here.

More re than this I do not know.

Bill

[Evan Stewart]

Matt, i think im in a similar situation. I have a delta thats not the greatest but it does a good job on face planing. The couple of times i have run edges through i definitely felt like my table saw makes a much better edge. And when im making panels i have found that jointing them on the router table gives me a good glue line. I am aware that my planer is of lesser quality than my table saw and router table setups so that may have something to do with it.

[lowell holmes]

I joint on my jointer and thickness plane on the planer.

If necessary, I will joint one side on the jointer and finish on the planer.

[Evan Stewart]

There was a thread about this (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?255159-Using-a-planner-to-make-identical-board-widths) not long ago. Seems to be a common practice.

I guess i should have done a search. I will definitely give it a shot again ganging up the boards and see if i get a better result.

[Wayne Lomman]

Yes edge thicknessing is standard practice. You won't find a commercial shop that doesn't and is still in business. That being said, I always fine saw edges before gluing. This was a topic for heated discussion some time back with the Neanderthals... Cheers

[Yonak Hawkins]

Matt, so if you were to trim off the ends the edges would be glue-ready ?

Regarding snipe, my experience is like Bill's. Lowering my bed rollers helped.

[johnny means]

I plane almost every edge on boards smaller than 3" wide. Usually, I gang them up, running four or five at a time. It does wonders for consistency.

[keith micinski]

I have never heard of or even thought of this. Why would it be better or faster to run a gang of boards through the planer then it is to set your table saw fence once and run all of you boards through? Also when I'm dimensioning wood I can't remember the last time the board was anywhere close to to being the right width so I would have to cut it with saw first anyway. Also after reading these posts from the other thread a lot of people keep mentioning this is the only way to get consistent pieces. Is there something wrong with my table saw that it has routinely produced the same width piece after I set my fence ten thousand times?

[Mel Fulks]

It's used even in shops that have moulders. Small orders of s4s trim and such that can not have any sawn edges. To make sure the material feeds well and and does not have feed roller marks many allow about 3/32nds to be planed off each edge. Handy when moulders are busy with large orders, but admittedly marginal when moulder is idle.

[Wayne Lomman]

Sure you can dimension your boards on a table saw if you don't mind sawn finish and you are not trying to produce consistent square or nearly square profiles. Note that in my post above I prefer sawn finish for certain applications. However, to produce a reliable say 70 x 70, it is necessary to joint face and edge and then plane parallel.

Also, there seems to be a belief that timber is planed and then taken back to the saw for trimming to size. This is not correct. Timber needs to be rough dimensioned to +5mm on the saw before dressing with the jointer and planer. This is the only way one ends up with straight timber as the internal stresses are relieved before dressing.

As to speed, what is quicker, 5 or 10 at a time through the planer or 1 at a time through the saw? We all do it our own way, but let's do it by choice not because we were never shown any other way. Cheers

[Rick Fisher]

Bigger planers use Segmented feed rollers for running multiple boards through at once. Edges is a prime example of when that's really handy.

[Martin Wasner]

You won't find a commercial shop that doesn't and is still in business.

Or, they've found something better.

[keith micinski]

Sure you can dimension your boards on a table saw if you don't mind sawn finish and you are not trying to produce consistent square or nearly square profiles. Note that in my post above I prefer sawn finish for certain applications. However, to produce a reliable say 70 x 70, it is necessary to joint face and edge and then plane parallel.

Also, there seems to be a belief that timber is planed and then taken back to the saw for trimming to size. This is not correct. Timber needs to be rough dimensioned to +5mm on the saw before dressing with the jointer and planer. This is the only way one ends up with straight timber as the internal stresses are relieved before dressing.

As to speed, what is quicker, 5 or 10 at a time through the planer or 1 at a time through the saw? We all do it our own way, but let's do it by choice not because we were never shown any other way. Cheers


So so there is something wrong with my saw setup because it gives me perfectly square consistent edges every time I use it. I almost understand the speed argument when doing large batches of the same dimension, even though you have to first rip all of that material close to its final dimension in the first place so why not just rip it to its final dimension then and be done with it. Milling rough sawn wood multiple times with drying time in between is great in theory, I wonder how many people or businesses actually make money doing it that way. It does sound like for a large batch of parts most professional shops use this method to increase efficiency. Never worked in a professional shop so that must be where the disconnect is.

The argument I don't understand is the quality and consistencey issue. If anything my planer leaves the same or less of a quality edge as every once in a while I may still get a small amount of snipe from time to time and the serations from the out feed roller definitely show on the piece. What are you guys doing to your table saws that they can't make a repeatable glue line cut?

[Wayne Lomman]

Note on both previous posts that I quite openly say there are tasks where a sawn edge is acceptable and even preferable. I do that with no problem. It is the best way to achieve a result especially edge gluing. However edge gluing is only one task. There are plenty of other tasks that aren't edge gluing.

It also seems that there is some misunderstanding of how timber is efficiently processed. Timber is milled once green, seasoned and then sawn to size for working in the shop. How this can be turned into multiple sawing tasks beats me. Professional shops don't waste effort. I strongly suggest anyone who hasn't ever seen the inside of a professional shop should try to organise a visit and see how it is done.

If your feed roller serrations show, you aren't taking enough of a cut.

Look at my recent posts as to dealing with snipe. If you can't get rid of it after that, allow a little extra length. Cheers

[Wayne Lomman]

Or, they've found something better.
Please let us know the better way. Genuine question by the way. Cheers

[Evan Stewart]

Sure you can dimension your boards on a table saw if you don't mind sawn finish and you are not trying to produce consistent square or nearly square profiles. Note that in my post above I prefer sawn finish for certain applications. However, to produce a reliable say 70 x 70, it is necessary to joint face and edge and then plane parallel.

Also, there seems to be a belief that timber is planed and then taken back to the saw for trimming to size. This is not correct. Timber needs to be rough dimensioned to +5mm on the saw before dressing with the jointer and planer. This is the only way one ends up with straight timber as the internal stresses are relieved before dressing.

As to speed, what is quicker, 5 or 10 at a time through the planer or 1 at a time through the saw? We all do it our own way, but let's do it by choice not because we were never shown any other way. Cheers

This is exactly why I use this site!! Based on the ongoing thread asking about people's ages i am fairly young in this field and even though I have been successful in creating product I am very aware that there are countless ways to improve quality and efficiency. Just because I was shown methods or acquired them on my own that have worked doesn't mean that those methods are the best ones.

I have only been an active member on this site for about a month and i can say with out a doubt that by instituting some of the suggestions given to me progress on my current project has been improved. Thank you all for sharing your experience.

[Martin Wasner]

Please let us know the better way. Genuine question by the way. Cheers

S4S machine or moulder.

I dimension stock on a shaper and an outboard fence. I would call that a lateral move from using a planer. Better quality cut basically impossible to be out of square, and a very small amount of straightening ability. The process isn't as fast, but secondary and tertiary operations go more smoothly calling it a wash in my book. It's basically a little more idiot proof is all.

I ran stuff on edge through the planer for a decade, but I prefer the shaper.

[Bradley Gray]

I prefer to use my thickness sander - same method as planer - no tear out or ridges.

[Martin Wasner]

The speed is probably very marginally slower. I think I'm running the shaper at 33fpm, my old planer was at 16fpm. So on the shaper I'm doing 2 parts in the amount of time I would do 5 in the planer. But, with the shaper there is basically zero empty machine time. I'm loading the next piece before the prior one is done. Everything is end to end. That's tough to do by yourself with a planer.

A running machine that isn't cutting wood drives me crazy.

[jack duren]

I prefer to use my thickness sander - same method as planer - no tear out or ridges.

Not as consistent as a planer....

[Joe Calhoon]

Please let us know the better way. Genuine question by the way. Cheers

This is how we do it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RA-BosQ06Ew

Before this we always used the jointer and planer. Still do occasionally. I've had a lot of planers over the years and some keep stock on edge square better than others.

[scott vroom]

I edge plane face frames, rails/stiles, drawer boxes on a 4 post 15" planer with spiral cutter. I first straight line on the TS then rip to final width + 1/8", then face joint if needed, then finish up thicknessing faces and edges on the planer. For me, edge planing groups of boards is faster and less tedious than edge jointing one board at a time. I'm not a production shop and pretty much do what feels best, which is not always the quickest or fastest. One of the advantages of only answering to myself.

That Martin T90 in Joe's vid is awesome but probably costs more new than most or all of my tools put together :)

[Evan Stewart]

I just ran 3 test pieces 96" long. The first piece was jointed and run through table saw. The second piece was run through table saw then jointed. The third piece was run through table saw, jointed and run through planer. Based on the results the third piece clearly had more square edges both visiably and to the touch. The dimension was also far more consistent planing both sides with deviations of .09mm or less beyond areas effected by snipe. There where deviations of up to 1 mm by using table saw after jointing. There where deviantions of .5-.7mm using jointer after table saw. I would assume that if my planer was tuned better even these deviations could be improved and the roller marks and snipe could be reduced.

I was tought that the correct process was plane, joint 1 edge, use that edge against fence and rip off the opposite edge. Even after it became obvious that i was experiencing difficulties and I consulted books and online other online sources this was generally the process listed. Using this method has created a significant amount of extra secondary work to fix deficiencies. I cant even count the number of times that I adjusted my table saw fence and jointer because I wasnt getting the results I wanted. One thing that is beyond question for me is that investing time on preparation always translates into time saved during building. Im sure this all seems like basic common knowledge to most but I do appreciate people being willing to help those of us with less experience.

[lowell holmes]

If the jointer does not give me the edge I want, I hit with a hand plane. Hand planing will leave very smooth edges.

[Mike Schuch]

I almost always size material on edge in the planer as long as I'm doing multiple pieces; I put them together as wide as I can grip them in my hand, feed them into the planer jointed side down and keep them together with my hand so they're going through as a single piece, switch to the out feed when they're almost all the way through.
I usually don't do it with single pieces.

I usually do the same thing but I let go before the peices make it all the way through the planer.

[Martin Wasner]

I usually do the same thing but I let go before the peices make it all the way through the planer.

I see what you did there.


If the jointer does not give me the edge I want, I hit with a hand plane. Hand planing will leave very smooth edges.

Try that one when you've got a few thousand feet of face frame and door stock sitting in front of you

[jack duren]

I see what you did there.



Try that one when you've got a few thousand feet of face frame and door stock sitting in front of you

Exactly............:)

[Wayne Lomman]

This is how we do it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RA-BosQ06Ew

Before this we always used the jointer and planer. Still do occasionally. I've had a lot of planers over the years and some keep stock on edge square better than others.

Am I looking at the wrong clip? These guys are jointing, planing and shaping. Note the stock is already sawn to rough size.

On reviewing the recent posts, there are a few variations on saw/joint/plane but the principles remain that it's best to work in that order. 4/6 sides, shapers etc are just variations on the use of a planer. Cheers

[Jared Sankovich]

I dimension stock on a shaper and an outboard fence. I would call that a lateral move from using a planer. Better quality cut basically impossible to be out of square, and a very small amount of straightening ability. The process isn't as fast, but secondary and tertiary operations go more smoothly calling it a wash in my book. It's basically a little more idiot proof is all.



That's how I do it. No snipe and perfectly consistent widths when it counts like on integral beaded face frames. The occasional planer snipe doesn't work well in precut identical notches.

[Joe Calhoon]

Am I looking at the wrong clip? These guys are jointing, planing and shaping. Note the stock is already sawn to rough size.

On reviewing the recent posts, there are a few variations on saw/joint/plane but the principles remain that it's best to work in that order. 4/6 sides, shapers etc are just variations on the use of a planer. Cheers

The first part of the clip is jointer, planer, shaper. If you watch further it gets to the four sider.

Shaper vs planer depends on what kind of planer is available. Our current planer is a finish machine with rubber rollers, Tersa head and no bed rolls so finish is as good as shaper with outboard fence and insert cutter. In the past we had a SCM with conventional head and bed rollers. The finish was not so good off that and we used the shaper or sometimes through the wide belt on edge. Wide belt is tricky, depending on your contact roller it can round the edges making joinery difficult and wont take much height without tipping.
i am processing parts for 20 windows today and the four sider is down waiting for a new flat belt. Doing it on the jointer and planer and getting a lot of exercise... A four side machine would not be practical in a hobby shop but sure saves a lot of work in a pro shop if you process much solid. Doing S4S on a well tuned jointer and planer is enjoyable for small batches.

[Martin Wasner]

Joe, I've got a four wing opposite shear insert straight cutter that I use on the shaper for sizing stock. I've never seen a knife deliver the quality of cut that it does. When the time comes for me to get a s4s machine I will be looking for more of those heads. I don't know how wide/tall you can go with it though. I bet I ran 20k feet across that cutter before I had to change inserts. I also don't know how much material removal it can handle. There's very little gullet, and the knives don't protrude much past the body. I haven't removed much more than 1/8" with it, my setup doesn't allow it.

[Joe Calhoon]

363701

Martin, here are my best straight cutters for the shaper. The z 4 insert cutter with rake in front makes a nice cut but the cut from the Tersa head in the planer is better. The big Tersa at the back cuts better than the other shaper heads probably because of the large diameter. We use the outside fence on shaper plenty for profiling but planer is second choice after the four sider for S4S just because it's easy and multiple pieces can be put through at the same time.
If your lacking a good finish planer the shaper is a good option though.

[Larry Edgerton]

I picked up a Tersa head for the shaper on Joes recommendation and am very happy with the results. But, if I am just making squares I do it on the planer, also a Tersa head. I have a 4"x4"x6" square of wood that I clamp to the infeed table as a guide when feeding in on edge. I have found that if they start square they will stay square, and the block makes that happen. Had a roller one on my old planer, but the simple block works just as well. With the block I can do very tall pieces with no rolling. No S4S machine.

[Leo Graywacz]

When I send edges through the planer I oversize by 40 thou. I do two passes. The first pass is the which way is the grain going pass. and the second pass is the final cleanup pass. If I get tear out on an edge on the first pass I'll reverse the feed of the board so I get a clean edge. On wild grained boards sometimes you just can't win and have to make another board.

[Yonak Hawkins]

If your feed roller serrations show, you aren't taking enough of a cut.

I find, however, with softer woods and, if the edge of the board happens upon the edge of (some, certain ?) feed roller sections, the serrations impress more deeply into the board than the depth of my final pass. This is a problem which I have noted here before and I've still not found a solution.

[Randy Heinemann]

I read all the posts and didn't see anything about flattening one face first before moving to the next step of either planing to thickness or jointing one edge. Just wondering. Over many years of reading, listening, and doing I always understood that flattening one face first was the place to start (possibly after cutting boards to rough lenghts). When I had only a 6" jointer, that was more difficult, but now that I have an 8", I can almost always fit boards on my jointer to flatten the first side before anything else. Without flattening the first face, it's many times impossible to get a completely flat board. Am I wrong about this first step? Maybe I just missed this in the posts. Also, seems to me that this thread indicates that people have their own sequence and do what works for them. I personally have never done much gang planing to width, but it seems like it's a good idea where you have multiple boards where you need the same width. My planer gives me a great surface for glue up but if you're gang planing for width, it would not usually be for glue-up anyway.

[Yonak Hawkins]

Randy, maybe I'm overly expedient but, I say, it depends on how you will use the board you are planing. If the board must remain straight on it's own, then flattening one side first on the jointer is the best way to do it. ..However, if you plan to hold the board straight with some kind of joinery then, unless there is a tight crook or, otherwise, can't be held straight, then going to the jointer first is unnecessary.

[Randy Heinemann]

Interesting. I have some great sources for hardwood in my area, but I rarely find a board that is flat enough to avoid doing at least a pass or two to flatten the face first. Maybe I'm just picky or am just so pleased that, with an 8" jointer, I can flatten most boards I buy. To be honest, I don't think I've ever read an article or book or seen a video online or taken a class where the first step to squaring a board wasn't flattening it unless the board is too wide. (Not that I haven't cheated occasionally when the board is almost flat with no significant twists or cupped.)

[Ronald Mancini]

I never edge plane because it takes too much time and effort. I saw the edge with a Festool track saw, then cut to width with a table saw. I joint one side of the board and plane the other side to get the correct thickness. Cutting down on the edge jointing is a life saver.

[Al Launier]

Have done this for years & like the results, in fact I just finished doing this for some mahogany strips I'm using on a knife block.

Sometimes I'll center one or 2-3 of these (especially thin strips) between wider boards of the same height for additional lateral support; other times I'll stick the strips or small, thin boards on top of a board with with double-back tape, with or without lateral support. One thing to be sure of is to have the bottom edge flat & square to avoid any "lien" which could cause an "unexpected" result.

[Mark Wooden]

All of what I do, YMMV-
Pull RS4S from stack
Rough cut parts to length
Rough rip parts to width- sometimes have to joint an edge to get them through the saw
Flatten one face on the jointer
Straighten one edge on the jointer indexing off the flattened face
Plane to sanding thickness- (for me, usually a "fat" measure)
Run 2+ pieces at a time through the planer on edge, staring with the jointed edges down, turn over and finish size by planing off the jointed edge- (which won't be as smooth as the planed edge)
Use parts as needed for stiles.rails , legs etc, etc..

[Wayne Lomman]

Mark, very, very well put. This is basic woodwork technique that has developed over centuries. Only the tools have evolved. The principles remain.

Randy, don't let anyone tell you not to flatten one side as you have been doing. You are doing it correctly. Keep up the good work. Cheers

[Leo Graywacz]

I get all my wood skip planed. So it's usually 3/16" over standard thickness. I'll flatten one side on the jointer and then though the planer. Then at least you have a few days before it might change shape (if ever) to mill it while it's true.

[Mark Bolton]

Im with Leo and Martin. All our material comes in skip planed and straight line ripped one edge. We glue line rip on the slider and honestly cant tell you the last time I even rolled the jointer out. Its covered in an inch of dust and buried in the corner. For big stuff like interior doors we fly-cut parts flat on the CNC before planing but thats a bit of a luxury. We edge dress ALL our material on the shaper with straight knives in a corrugated head and a LONG shop made back fence. Its basically like a giant high speed jointer for edging. Sucks having to two pass parts but the shaper is way faster and the long fence is way more accurate than edge planing through the planer would ever be.

The few times we have ever edge thicknessed 4/4 material in the planer it rolls all over the place. No guarantee of a square edge to the face. If we do ever do it we actually clamp a stack of boards together with the clamps a bit loose and send the clamps and all through the planer along with the group of boards. But thats one in a million and it has to be low tolerance work (nothing with critical width).

[Rick Fisher]

I wonder if the type of planer makes the difference. I plane edges on mine and the accuracy and results are exceptional .. Same thing . straight line rip on the slider, but I edge through the planer.. I don't have bed rollers, and the height is digitally set.. The results are beyond my expectations..

I'm going to measure the width on a board after using the planer and see how much variance I actually get... Honestly I don't see how it couldn't be accurate but I'm open to learning ..

[glenn bradley]

This is a problem which I have noted here before and I've still not found a solution.

I may have responded before. If so, please ignore.

The factory settings on my floor standing planer were set for rough lumber. The infeed is about 1/16" below Bottom Dead Center of the cutters and the outfeed is about 1/32". I reduced these by at least half.

In addition to the height settings you can back off the pressure. You can put a mark on the adjustment screw/knob/bolt to allow you to return to your original position if you don't like the result. My adjustments were backed off so far that I used a drop of hot-glue to make sure the pressure adjusters stayed put. That is, the rollers were in position but, there is minimal pressure keeping them at the lowest point. Even at this relatively light setting the planer has a grip like an alligator.

[Leo Graywacz]

I have the Jet JWP 15CS finishing planer. I keep the bed wheels level with the bed. I get nice crisp edges but I don't put anything taller than 4" in there usually. 2" or less is the usual, for face frames.

[Yonak Hawkins]

Thank you, glen. Your solutions make sense and I'm going to try the spring adjustment first. 1/16" below BDC is the specification. Backing off that some seems reasonable to try, as well.

The thing is, I don't think all the feeder sections are problematic, i.e., it seems like the impressed board edges happen only in certain areas, so I wonder if some are sticking somehow. I don't know how the inner spring mechanism works.

[Joe Calhoon]

I wonder if the type of planer makes the difference. I plane edges on mine and the accuracy and results are exceptional .. Same thing . straight line rip on the slider, but I edge through the planer.. I don't have bed rollers, and the height is digitally set.. The results are beyond my expectations..

I'm going to measure the width on a board after using the planer and see how much variance I actually get... Honestly I don't see how it couldn't be accurate but I'm open to learning ..

It does make a difference Rick. When I say finish planer I mean a heavy duty 20 to 24" planer with no bed rolls, insert type head and rubber rollers. This term may not be correct as some of the old Buss and Whitney planers were called finish planers and not sure what the differences were from a roughing planer. Side to side accuracy is good on the Martin and the ability to run 4/4 on edge up to the 10" height is good. Its nice to be able to come back if you have a reject downstream to remake quickly to same dimensions. The Griggio Tersa planer we used in the shop in Bhutan had rubber rollers and it seemed to do a good job also. Did not get to try it on tall boards though.

When we had our SCM with conventional knives and bed rollers it was more of a job to do processing like this. Anything over 4" or so would get out of square and it took a lot of effort setting the knives to get side to side the same. Without accurate digital readouts the repeatability takes some fussing. Conventional heads you need to read the grain, with the insert heads not so much but I still do from years of habit. You just have to make do with what you have.

I got the small window batch processed with jointer and planer. More work than the S4S machine but the results are the same. Straight square pieces with no snipe and high quality surface finish with no tear out.
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363915
363916
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[Martin Wasner]

I just ran some maple and quarter sawn white oak on edge through my planer to try it out. A good cut, but not as good as I'm getting on the shaper. That's on a format 4 with a Tersa head steel rollers, while not a Martin, it's not a cheap planer. Completely acceptable and way better cut than what my old planer was capable of, but not quite there for quality.

[Joe Calhoon]

Martin, what grade of Tersa are you using? I found the M42 and HSS did not give good results after a few hundred lineal.
we use carbide Tersa on the S4S and Kanafusa coated Tersa on the jointer and planer. Two knives in 4 knife heads.

[Martin Wasner]

It came with a fresh set of m42 knives in it.

[Mark Bolton]

Imho there is no way edge planed material is going to compare to any shaper/molder based result. The finished width will of course be consistent over its length but the planer option does virtually nothing to further straighten the workpiece. A long fence (shaper or jointer) far exceeds the capabilities of a short planer bed and additionally with proper setup the shaper feeder will not exert enough force on the piece being edged to flatten a bow out of the workpiece. A planers feed rollers are going do do exactly as they do with a face planed board and squeeze it down flat, thickness it, and when it comes out the other end its just going to spring back to where it was.

With light feeder pressure the workpiece is straightened just like it is on a jointer if you present the workpiece with the crown out. Edge squareness is a given.

Im not saying edge planing/sandingg is not acceptable for certain operations, it surely is. But in the time it takes me to crank the handwheel on the planer down to 6" to feed a half a dozen 1x6s' on edge through the planer, I can stick a back fence on the shaper and be done.

[Martin Wasner]

But in the time it takes me to crank the handwheel on the planer down to 6" to feed a half a dozen 1x6s' on edge through the planer, I can stick a back fence on the shaper and be done.

My planer has less cranks than my shapers.

Just thought it was funny.

[Joe Calhoon]

Imho there is no way edge planed material is going to compare to any shaper/molder based result. The finished width will of course be consistent over its length but the planer option does virtually nothing to further straighten the workpiece. A long fence (shaper or jointer) far exceeds the capabilities of a short planer bed and additionally with proper setup the shaper feeder will not exert enough force on the piece being edged to flatten a bow out of the workpiece. A planers feed rollers are going do do exactly as they do with a face planed board and squeeze it down flat, thickness it, and when it comes out the other end its just going to spring back to where it was.

With light feeder pressure the workpiece is straightened just like it is on a jointer if you present the workpiece with the crown out. Edge squareness is a given.

Im not saying edge planing/sandingg is not acceptable for certain operations, it surely is. But in the time it takes me to crank the handwheel on the planer down to 6" to feed a half a dozen 1x6s' on edge through the planer, I can stick a back fence on the shaper and be done.


Mark, I would disagree but again it depends on the planer. My Martin planer has a bed length of about 50”, no bed rollers to mar the wood or cause snipe, high height accuracy side to side, digital readout and powered up and down so going from 1/8” to 10” quickly is no problem. With the Tersa head cut quality is the same as the four sider or any of my insert shaper heads. I don’t count on the planer doing any straightening. Material needs a straight and square edge going in. We get this usually with the jointer because we are already there facing, but could be done on the SLR or even the sliding saw.
Seems like for the shaper- outboard method to be effective in a shop would need to be a dedicated setup especially for the many times just a few boards need to be edged. When we had our straight knife 16” planer it was limited for keeping square on height and cut quality. With this planer we did use the shaper method at times especially for face frames where surface quality needs to be high and edges square and crisp for joinery.


I prefer to work with hit and miss material but a lot of times only rough is available in some species. We either rough crosscut first or straighten on the SLR first depending on the job. Parts are ripped ¼” oversized if going through the S4S, a little less if going to the planer. Most parts are faced unless it’s something like running house trim. The S4S machine has a 80” infeed table for straightening edges and faces (like using a power feed on a jointer) but we still hand face on the jointer critical parts like door stiles and the such.

[Larry Edgerton]

Some planers will do it and some will not, its as simple as that.

When I had a Powermatic 180 it would do it until I installed a Byrd head, then it wanted to lead it off angle away from 90 . I have had other planers with mixed results but my current planer with a Tersa head is just fine. The finish is just as good as the finish on the face, and as long as I leave 3/32" as Mel has suggested I get no marks from the feed rollers. If I run a bunch of strips for a glueup the end results are perfect, no gaps, and flat. One thing I did figure out is if you plane a wide test board and it is not exactly the same thickness on both sides you will not be able to plane edges. This adjustment is critical to them staying at 90 degrees.

Everyone has to work within the limits of the machines that they have in their shop, if its not something your machine will do you just find a different way. But because your machine will not do it does not mean that everyones machine can't do it. To each his own.

Martin, made the switch to genuine Tersa carbide, could not be more pleased. Very much worth the cost. Oh, my planer has no crank at all.:p

[Martin Wasner]

Martin, made the switch to genuine Tersa carbide, could not be more pleased. Very much worth the cost. Oh, my planer has no crank at all.:p

I think when I'm done burning truckloads of capital on my new building, I'll order up a set of the carbide knives. They are not screwing around when it comes to charging for those are they? eek...

I was being a smart ass, my planer doesn't have a crank either.

[Mark Bolton]

I was being a smart ass, my planer doesn't have a crank either.

My point exactly. Most people in this thread are going to be in the taiwan/import category and a planer with far less than a 50" bed. Joe, I would never doubt your breadth of knowledge with regards to any of this but we are getting up into the echelon of shops that are going to have dedicated planers with smooth/rubber rollers, no bed rollers, and so on for specific tasks. In the context of this thread I assumed a basement or garage shop with a single 15" or perhaps 20" planer. Bed length of less than 3' or even a lunchbox.

We will soon be moving in a 5 head machine but as you say, short/quick runs, of just a few boards still have to be addressed. We do have a shaper that sits with a corrugated head and straight knives but even to have to setup for a small batch is extremely fast with a clip on back fence assembly that has scales for fast cut width settings. I use that setup regularly for random width flooring. As has been stated, some machines will, some wont.

[Warren Lake]

don't see how planer bed length enters into this, planer is making stuff parallel its edge straight already before any of these guys edging to width on it do that. If you are putting material in and worrying about the planer not making it straight then its not machined right already never mind anything wide and thick that has a bend will probably not get pressed down, at some point anyway.

Faces, you can take any straight piece of wood and put a bend in it, parallel still but no longer straight.

[John Sincerbeaux]

You guys with the Martin T45's or other high-end planers, do your machines have the standard two speed feeding or infinitely variable speed option? I am ordering a T45 this fall and the only option I can't decide on is the speed choice? About $2k more for the IVS. And the speed range is not that much different. I am guessing for edge jointing you guys are running your planers slow?

Thanks

[Larry Edgerton]

John, mine has a four speed. I would not prefer the complication that comes with a IVS myself as I have no need. I rough in 4th, and finish in 1st, seldom use the other speeds. The 4 knife Tersa head turns at 7200 in my machine, so at 16FPM I get a finish almost ready for finishing, and in 4th at 72 FPM its about on par with your average Eastern import. I don't see variable being of use to me. I would pass on $2000.

I do all final passes at 16FPM. I no longer have a WB, but really with a planer in this class the need for a sander is minimized. One side benefit is that when I had a wide belt my shaper cutters always wore at the spots where the wood ended, sanding grit embedded in the surface cut a groove in the carbide fairly quickly. Coming off the planer directly to machining eliminates this problem .

[Martin Wasner]

We will soon be moving in a 5 head machine but as you say, short/quick runs, of just a few boards still have to be addressed. We do have a shaper that sits with a corrugated head and straight knives but even to have to setup for a small batch is extremely fast with a clip on back fence assembly that has scales for fast cut width settings. I use that setup regularly for random width flooring. As has been stated, some machines will, some wont.

When the time comes to pull the trigger on an s4s machine, I plan on keeping my scm shaper setup for short runs, or for replacing that part that got fumbled to the floor and has a dent. Or, for the paneled end parts that are two wide for the other machine.


You guys with the Martin T45's or other high-end planers, do your machines have the standard two speed feeding or infinitely variable speed option? I am ordering a T45 this fall and the only option I can't decide on is the speed choice? About $2k more for the IVS. And the speed range is not that much different. I am guessing for edge jointing you guys are running your planers slow?

Thanks

Mine has a variable feed speed, I haven't played with the speed at all though. I bet we haven't punched 500bd/ft through it yet.

[Larry Edgerton]

I think when I'm done burning truckloads of capital on my new building, I'll order up a set of the carbide knives. They are not screwing around when it comes to charging for those are they? eek...

I was being a smart ass, my planer doesn't have a crank either.

Yes, tough pill to swallow, but so much more economical in the end, Tersa carbide is incredible, you won't believe the finish.

And yes, I knew that, I thought it was my turn to be a smart ass?

[Martin Wasner]

$460 I think I saw for a set of four knives?

[Larry Edgerton]

Sounds about right for 520's. There is a place in B.C. that I found is the cheapest for genuine, and the exchange rate favors us right now. I tried several clones, don't waste your money.