Looking for jointer/planer combo machine

[Vinito Caleb]

Hi folks.

I've decided that with the size of my shop space and the amount of work I'll be doing, a jointer/planer combo machine would serve me well.
I'll just be doing work for myself and maybe the odd piece for a friend or family member and I have one good line (so far) on some rough-cut local milled lumber.
I picked up a little Grizzly jointer a few months back and fitted it with a spiral head, so I can sell it off for $500 without losing money on it, and honestly a little loss isn't a huge deal either.

One thing I've noticed over the years is that I've never regretted spending more money on something well-made, especially after owning a cheap version first. So I've been looking and I figure I will probably like getting something in the quality level of a Hammer and pass over the Grizzly and Jet level stuff. The price of Felder or the like makes me shudder a little, and since I'm not doing this for a living I don't think I need to go that high anyway.

In terms of quality + price, my ideal machine is probably a Hammer 16" with spiral head and height indicator. However, even the cost of that one makes it pucker a little and I'm thinking maybe I could live with a 12" and retrofit my own digital height gauge to it (I'm a machinist so I should be able to whip something up for that no problem).

So I guess my questions are:
1: knowing that no matter what size I get, it will be 1" too small for something within the first month, will I regret settling for a 12" width or will I be happy as a clam for 99% of my work (not a lot of big panel/table stuff in my planned future as of yet).
2: Does my choice thus far seem to be a good idea or am I off the mark - I am a rookie after all.

Thanks for any input.
p.s. Feel free to try to talk me into blowing my retirement fund on a silly-expensive better option if you want - I'm not quite broke yet. I'm just trying to be realistic - a Timex is as informative as a Patek Philippe after all.

[Chris Parks]

I think all Hammer machines come with an optional analogue height indicator which is at least as accurate and repeatable as a digital version and requires no batteries. I know that the general opinion is that digital beats analogue but in this case it is wrong and others will back me up here I am sure. If your budget allows never buy a smaller machine always a bigger one....old woodworker motto that has stood the test of time.

[Ron Brese]

There is no right answer to your question. It really depends on the way you work. I never depend on machines to create super accuracy or a final finish. I do that with hand tools, therefore my demands for a machine would be different than someone else. If you are machine dependent then you're gonna want, of dare I say "need" a higher quality machine. Hand tools, planes etc., are quite liberating in that way.

Ron

[john lawson]

Not sure where you are located but you can get what you want or need used. If you live in CA, Fl or AZ, used machines come up pretty often on craigslist and ebay. If you are patient you will find a used Felder, Minimax or Hammer. If you are handy with a trailer it usually involves a one day round trip adventure.
A friend of mine bought a Minimax CU410 Elite off Craigslist that was located in New York (his is 16" jointer/planer). I bought a really nice Minimax FS30 smart off ebay and had it shipped from AZ to Alabama for 1/2 the cost of new. I then sold it locally because I bought a Minimax CU300 from a guy in Denver. We met halfway in Arkansas, swapped his U-haul to my Rav 4, spent the night and returned to Alabama. I am very pleased with my purchase. I don't particularly like Ebay, but the their purchase guarantee has kind of changed my mind, especially on large dollar purchases.
Again, be patient, you can find what you want/need, or buy new.

[Doug Bowman]

This^^^^^
It is also liberating to know that I can go use hand tools for that occasional board that is too wide for the machine

[Jamie Buxton]

You will, of course, get a million opinions about this.
My 12" Hammer has been in service darn near every day for the last fifteen years. It has built loads of furniture. If it walked off in the middle of the night, I'd probably just go buy another like it. It does have Hammer's mechanical height gauge, which works just fine. It is accurate and repeatable down to a few thousandths of an inch. IIRC, it wasn't expensive -- maybe $150 -- when I bought it. Some sort of height gauge is important, but if you want to go digital, go ahead.
The width of the machine might depend upon what your wood sources are. Me, I never see regular lumber which is over 12" wide. The only exceptions are some live-edge slabs, and I do them with a router sled.

[Andy Giddings]

+1 on the 12' Hammer - does everything I need, accurate and repeatable. Chris and Jamie's comments match my experience.

[Brian W Evans]

Last year I bought a Minimax FS41 Classic (16") J/P combo. I don't necessarily plan to plane 16" wide material, but the extra width allows me to skew pieces to reduce tearout and, of course, having a 16" jointer is better than having a 12" jointer. Also, the tables were longer than the FS30 (12").

I have been very happy with this machine, which wasn't what I would consider overly expensive. If I had it to do again, I might have gone for the Elite instead of the Classic, but if I had bought the Elite I'm sure I would be wishing I'd gotten the Elite S...

I have a Wixey digital height gauge that works quite well, although I tend to use hand tools to do final fitting or else my drum sander to get the last 1/32" or so off to achieve final thickness.

Best of luck.

[John TenEyck]

Like, John, most of my stationary machines were bought used. I had an Inca 10" J/P for many, many years, then sold it when I bought a MM FS-35 (14") combo machine. I paid about half the price of new for a machine that looks, runs, and performs like it is still new. A feature I really like on the older MM machines is the mortiser is attached on the back side of the machine, so I can leave it on full time. I don't know about Hammer, but the newer MM's have the mortiser on the front so you have to remove it in order to use the jointer function. I have no clue why they did that but it strikes me as a poor idea. Anyway, I bought my machine through EBay and drove about 300 miles one way to get it. I'd do it again.

Anyway, is 12" wide enough? Sure, but 14" is better, 16" better still. Bigger is always better if you have the funds and space. Like flat screen TV's, I've never heard anyone say "You know, that xxxx is just too big, wish I had bought the smaller one." Personally, if it was a choice between a used 16" and a new 12", I'd go with the 16" w/o hesitation.

John

[Vinito Caleb]

Thanks for the replies.

...if it was a choice between a used 16" and a new 12", I'd go with the 16" w/o hesitation.

I wish I was looking at that choice. You never know until you're into it I guess , but it's a couple grand difference on the new ones and I don't think there would be enough times being up against the limit to warrant the outlay. There was a pretty cool combo machine (can't remember the brand now - eastern European I think) on local craigslist for a decent price the other day. It was listed there for about 3 or 4 weeks and I tried to reach the guy several times but couldn't get any reply so might as well not have listed it. Otherwise all we get here are a couple dozen 6" jointers, an 8" every couple months or so, and some large old iron for way too expensive.

Glad to hear some of you are happy with 12". That's the way I'm leaning as I think that should handle the vast majority of my needs I think. I mainly wanted to hear one way or another whether those that have a 12" seem to like it or "always" run into limitations with it, so that is helpful. I realized that a good buddy of mine has a 16 or 18 inch straight-knife moulder/planer which I could access in the rare occasional need I guess.

So I'm leaning pretty strong toward a Hammer 12" and if the height gauge is only $150 I might as well have them install that. I do like analog gauges - my thinking on the digital retrofit was because they are reliable and inexpensive enough that it would be an easy project, but $150 would be no big deal (I imagined it would be much higher). A motorized planer table lift might be very nice, but not a big problem for me either way. For my personal use I don't think I'll be doing enough changeovers that it would be much of a bother.

Thanks again. It will be a while, but I'll surely post when I pick something up.

[Ted Calver]

As soon as I got my 12" Hammer most of the wood I acquired was 15" wide. I'd go for the 16".

[Mark Carlson]

I have the 12in A3-31 Hammer Jointer/Planer. 16in would be nice but the 12in does 99% of what I need. I dont often find would wider than 12 in and I dont plane wide panels. What ever you do get the mechanical digital height gauge that comes with the Hammer, its awesome.

[Rod Sheridan]

+1 on the 12' Hammer - does everything I need, accurate and repeatable. Chris and Jamie's comments match my experience.

I agree, I'm on my second one, very happy with it...........Rod.

[Prashun Patel]

I have the a3-31 and its perfect for me. But you have to know how you work. You may want to put this decision off for a year.

How much you need wide jointing capacity is a function also of how comfortable you become with hand tools and how fast you need to work.

[Richard Wolf]

I saw the Baileigh not long ago. It looked like a nice machine, might be worth a look.

http://www.baileigh.com/woodworking/jointers-planers

[Joshua Bass]

I obsessed over these machines for the past month, watching every video and reading every review I could find on them. I ended up going with the Hammer A3-41 16" with spiral head. I came very close to splurging on the Felder model, but it was about 4k more and I couldn't justify that as a hobbyist just for it to be a little nicer with digital/powered height adjustment.

I just got it this week but wont have power in the shop for another 2 weeks. The height gauge is relatively cheap and probably better than trying to retrofit something else onto it. The minimax was also on my short list, but Hammer won on price. Make sure to ask them if they are still on sale, because the discount was huge.

[John Sincerbeaux]

There is no right answer to your question. It really depends on the
way you work. I never depend on machines to create super accuracy or a final finish. I do that with hand tools, therefore my demands for a machine would be different than someone else. If you are machine dependent then you're gonna want, of dare I say "need" a higher quality machine. Hand tools, planes etc., are quite liberating in that way.

Ron

Ron,
Do you have any machines?
Just curious... what skills do find you are superior to a machine in terms of "accuracy and finish" ?

[Len Rosenberg]

Couple of years ago went through the same process and ended up with a Minimax FS41 Elite. Fantastic machine, 4 knife tersa head, trouble free. Only regret is not getting the Elite S with motorized lift....:)

[Albert Lee]

If you know you are going to be in this field for a long long time and money is not an issue... Hofmann has the combo you want...

[Vinito Caleb]

OK so NOW I run across an 8" jointer deal.:rolleyes:
I have a line on a Grizzly 8" with spiral head for $700 and I can pick up a 20" Grizzly planer with spiral head for a couple grand new (better if I run across a CL deal). I know these aren't as nice as the Hammer, but they'd match the quality of my other few machines and probably work fine for me... I think. This would cost a little more than $2K less than the hammer.

I'm tempted but I haven't pulled the trigger or even decided for sure yet. Got a couple days to mull it over. Separate machines might be nice (my shop isn't tiny, just isn't large and both are on wheels too) so it's just a matter of whether 8" jointer will be too narrow. Honestly for the projects in my immediate future (next two years or so) it's all going to be under 8" wide and I could make a jointer sled for the planer if I wanted to build a rare table top or something.

Bloody hell. I guess if I already knew what I was doing, my current project queue would have been checked off years ago. These Grizzly machines are much nicer than the cheap crap I've seen guys make decent pieces with before, so in my head I'm kinda thinking I'd probably be pretty comfortable working with it compared to what I've tried to use before (band aids & bubble gum).

Hmmmm.

[John TenEyck]

Nice (and large) equipment makes the job easier, but they don't replace the person using them. Many pro shops are based around an 8" jointer and 15 or 20" planer. If you can buy used machines for a good price you can resell them for about what you paid when something better or more desirable comes along.

John

[Prashun Patel]

"so it's just a matter of whether 8" jointer will be too narrow."

8" jointer is not too narrow for MANY people. In fact, I could do quite well with the 6" jointer I had. A wider jointer just makes some things a little easier. Each person has their own truth on this, but for me, I almost always cut wide stock into narrower strips for structural or aesthetic reasons.

On the contrary, having separates can also make things more convenient. Switchover on the Hammer is as easy as it gets, but it's still a hassle, and requires resetting the table height on the planer. Therefore, you will have to plan out your milling operations more carefully with a combo. This is probably the key reason to upgrade the height gauge on this machine. I've learned to work around it.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi, I had an 8" jointer and upgraded to the Hammer A3-31.

Yes you can use a planer sled, however if you're a hobby user like me, time is critical.

I don't have a lot of shop time so fooling around with a planer sled, or any other "make do" bodges takes precious shop time away.

Go for the 12" combo.....................Rod.

[Jim Becker]

...so it's just a matter of whether 8" jointer will be too narrow.

See, that's the thing...for me, I wouldn't be happy with an 8" jointer because I flatten material quite often that's wider than that. There have even been times when the 350mm of width I do have isn't adequate and that's when I sorta wish I went with a 16" (410mm) machine. My personal preference is for jointing/flattening width to be equal to thicknessing width.

[scott vroom]

I've got an 8" jointer and wish it were 12". I've got a 15" planer and the only times I wish it were bigger are when I make wide desk tops from 4 boards: I first glue up 2 boards and run them through the planer, then a second set of boards same thing. I then do a single final glue up of the 2 halves and only have to deal with flattening a single seam by hand. If I'm making a 28" wide desk top the 15" planer is barely big enough for this method. A 16" planer would allow me to make a 30" wide panel with a little wiggle room, again using my method of gluing up and thicknessing 2 halves, then doing a final glue up of the halves.

[Curt Harms]

For me the question of jointer width came down to having access to inexpensive rough sawn stock. I had a 6" jointer/13" benchtop planer like many. There are a lot of sources for good inexpensive hardwoods in this area so I wanted the ability to flatten rough stock that is often wider than 8" but not usually wider than 11". I'm a little space limited so went with a Jet JJP-12 non-helical. The helical wasn't available when I bought mine. It does what I want, create flat square boards. If space were not an issue I may have gone with old iron separates but 12" jointers are usually not cheap, old arn or not.

[Erik Loza]

Almost 15 years of selling Euro jointer/planers and never once did I have a customer complain about "too much" face width capability. On the other hand...

Erik

[Chris Fournier]

I worked for years with an 8" jointer and a 16" planer, both Taiwanese. Man I did a lot of work with those machines. I then bought a Minimax jointer planer combo that was 12" wide. The additional capacity of the jointer was liberating but more impressive was the quality of the machine, and the pleasure I had just turning it on and using it. I was sold on European. I now have a Minimax CU 410 Elite S with 16" of jointer and planer. Love it! But! For household furniture, panel doors and your average projects the 12" piece really was just fine. The size, my perception of energy consumption, etc made it comfortable. My current 410 is a beast by one man shop standards. It's advantages are that it is built like a tank for big pieces - four post planer bed for example. Looong jointer tables - 12 foot lumber? Let's go! It is however more machine than is needed to build residential furniture. I could move and load the 12" machine with ease. Used my little minivan to bring it home back in the day. I like that freedom, not that I need it... Now my machine can be moved around my shop no problem as it is so well designed for this but a change of venue means a tilt and load and a forklift. Whaaaa! Everything has it's pros and cons.

Listening to your story I'd say that buying an 8" jointer would be a mistake. Move up to a 12" machine at the least, or most given my explanation.

Good luck!

[Vinito Caleb]

Well I decided to go against the advices for going with a 12" instead agreeing with the few who said that 8" jointer would probably suit most of my needs. Today I picked up the 8" Grizzly. It's not bad. Has an insert helical cutterhead (Grizzly style). A couple trial cuts show it does a nice job. The odd thing about this machine is there are short 5" extensions bolted on to make the table total 75" length total. Just seems like if you're going to go through the trouble of designing it to accept extensions, you'd make them longer than 5" I guess. Seems like as a manufacturer you'd just either make the table casting 5" longer or make the extensions more significant, but whatever.

So now I guess I'm in the market for a decent planer. I have a cheap lunchbox but I'll be stepping up to something better within the next few months - at least 15" but probably more likely to look at 20" I'm thinking. I really like these helical cutterheads so that is a must for me. I guess I'll just follow craigslist but if anybody has suggestions on better avenues to find a good used deal near Kansas City I'd welcome the advice.

Sorry I won't be gloating about a new Hammer purchase. I'm sure I would have liked it but it was looking more expensive than I was comfortable with.

[John TenEyck]

Good deal Vinito. You won't suffer much with the narrower width and using it will allow you to assess how much you really "need" a wider one. Many folks never go bigger.

Not trying to burst your bubble, but you are unlikely to find a killer deal on a used planer with a helical head. However, you will find great deals on straight knife planers from folks trading up to a helical head. Take advantage. And if you can get one at a really good price you'll have enough to buy a drum sander which will take care of any tearout you get from the straight knives. If you have any desire to cut shop sawn veneer a drum sander will make the job so much easier. Just sayin'.

John

[Vinito Caleb]

Thanks for the support John. I didn't mention but as you said "using it will allow you to assess" is certainly true. I currently exist in ignorance and even though it's undoubtedly a fact that a well-made large machine would be more of a pleasure to operate, it won't hurt me much if I use this one for a while and discover in the future, once I actually know something, if and what I actually need.

I was a little excited earlier when I saw a listing for an 18" gold series Jet planer with a helical head. Then I realized that I remember seeing the listing a couple weeks ago (relisted today) so it's probably not a screaming deal. I think this might be partly because I'm pretty sure (though not positive) Jet made 15" and 20" planers but not an 18", so the seller hasn't even bothered to correct the error or is still unaware of it. That's a red flag. If I'm not mistaken, I also think that this planer also had serrated steel infeed and outfeed rollers and from what I understand, a steel serrated outfeed roller is guaranteed grief to deal with and I don't want to mess with immediately finding parts to replace on a machine just hoping it works better maybe.

I figure if I can't find a good deal on a used one, a new Grizzly (or the like) could be justified. And I'm not in a big hurry yet. I have at least a couple months before I'll be digging in to the actual woodworking in earnest. At the moment, I have other time-consuming responsibilities taking priority.

[Tim M Tuttle]

Did you get rid of your old jointer? I am in KC and am dipping my toes in the market for a jointer. Which Grizzly model is it?

[Earl Rumans]

Thanks for the support John. I didn't mention but as you said "using it will allow you to assess" is certainly true. I currently exist in ignorance and even though it's undoubtedly a fact that a well-made large machine would be more of a pleasure to operate, it won't hurt me much if I use this one for a while and discover in the future, once I actually know something, if and what I actually need.

I was a little excited earlier when I saw a listing for an 18" gold series Jet planer with a helical head. Then I realized that I remember seeing the listing a couple weeks ago (relisted today) so it's probably not a screaming deal. I think this might be partly because I'm pretty sure (though not positive) Jet made 15" and 20" planers but not an 18", so the seller hasn't even bothered to correct the error or is still unaware of it. That's a red flag. If I'm not mistaken, I also think that this planer also had serrated steel infeed and outfeed rollers and from what I understand, a steel serrated outfeed roller is guaranteed grief to deal with and I don't want to mess with immediately finding parts to replace on a machine just hoping it works better maybe.

I figure if I can't find a good deal on a used one, a new Grizzly (or the like) could be justified. And I'm not in a big hurry yet. I have at least a couple months before I'll be digging in to the actual woodworking in earnest. At the moment, I have other time-consuming responsibilities taking priority.


If you are planning on getting a Grizzly machine you need to plan ahead, Every thread I have seen on guys getting Grizzly tools they have to wait 3-4 months for delivery. I don't know if that's for all Grizzly tools but you should check with them, if that's the way you decide to go.

[John TenEyck]

If you are planning on getting a Grizzly machine you need to plan ahead, Every thread I have seen on guys getting Grizzly tools they have to wait 3-4 months for delivery. I don't know if that's for all Grizzly tools but you should check with them, if that's the way you decide to go.


About a year ago I got my Grizzly BS three days after I ordered it. The issue with out of stock is machine specific, not universal. And it arrived with no damage and in near perfect alignment.

John

[Vinito Caleb]

Hi Tim. The jointer is a G1182ZX (link) (http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-x-47-Heavy-Duty-Jointer/G1182ZX?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com) and I put this cutterhead (link) (http://www.grizzly.com/products/6-Helical-Spiral-Cutterhead-for-Jointers/T27698?utm_campaign=zPage&utm_source=grizzly.com) on it. It's a grizzly item but more of a Shelix copy with more inserts and a shear orientation than their standard insert heads.
Call me if you want (913-999-237O)

I'm not in a hurry for this stuff to come together. Unfortunately I have a list of priorities that will take a couple months to finish before I can start dedicating much time to woodworking. I ordered some stuff from them a while back, just smaller parts and things. It was all in stock and arrived at my doorstep in no time - 3 days at the most. I've heard similar even on machines as long as they are in stock.