Stanley no 6 or LN no 62 Toothed Iron for Flattening

[JohnM Martin]

I'm looking to have a dedicated plane (or iron) for flattening boards. Given that I already own a LN no 62, would I be better off with a toothed iron for that or picking up a good Stanley no 6? Where I'm located, oak is readily available from local sawmills and walnut (though more expensive) so I mostly work with those two species.

Realistically speaking, I'm considering using this plane to flatten one reference face of boards - which I will sometimes run through a thickness planar for final thicknessing.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

A toothed iron works wonders and makes quick work of tricky wood, but you really also need a long jointer plane to flatten. The 62 is a jack plane. A No. 7 would be ideal, but a 6 would work.

[JohnM Martin]

A toothed iron works wonders and makes quick work of tricky wood, but you really also need a long jointer plane to flatten. The 62 is a jack plane. A No. 7 would be ideal, but a 6 would work.

I apologize; I should have been more clear. I do have a no 7 that I will use for finishing off the flattening, but was more curious about a plane for the initial stages of heavy stock removal.

[Patrick Chase]

I apologize; I should have been more clear. I do have a no 7 that I will use for finishing off the flattening, but was more curious about a plane for the initial stages of heavy stock removal.

Most people call that "roughing". "Flattening" is synonymous with "jointing" in common usage.

You need a scrub, a jack, or a fore. Which you need is a matter of preference. In Stanley's line the scrub is the #40 or #40-1/2, the jack is the #5, #5-1/2, or #5-1/4, and the fore is the #6.

Your #62 is also Jack-sized and could be used for roughing, but there's a catch: You generally want a lot of camber for roughing, but the 62's low bed angle makes that harder to achieve. Whereas you might use a 6" camber radius for roughing with a #5, you'd need to grind a ~2" camber radius to get the same camber extension on the 62.

Toothing blades are used to prepare difficult surfaces for final smoothing, not for roughing.

[steven c newman]

Scrub jack

363308
No. 5 size, iron ground to an 8'' radius camber, ala C. Schwarz..
363309
Can be about any #5 jack plane you find....this one is a Corsair C-5, by Great Neck. Sole does not need to be flattened to within an atom of perfect....down and dirty is fine enough....
Then I can use the #6c at the diagonals..
363310
As needed..
363311
BTW: The No. 6c has almost no camber.....

[JohnM Martin]

Most people call that "roughing". "Flattening" is synonymous with "jointing" in common usage.

You need a scrub, a jack, or a fore. Which you need is a matter of preference. In Stanley's line the scrub is the #40 or #40-1/2, the jack is the #5, #5-1/2, or #5-1/4, and the fore is the #6.

Your #62 is also Jack-sized and could be used for roughing, but there's a catch: You generally want a lot of camber for roughing, but the 62's low bed angle makes that harder to achieve. Whereas you might use a 6" camber radius for roughing with a #5, you'd need to grind a ~2" camber radius to get the same camber extension on the 62.

Toothing blades are used to prepare difficult surfaces for final smoothing, not for roughing.

I'm so confused now because I was watching this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl8Tj1lUha4 in an attempt to learn about the toothed blade and in the first 30 seconds, he makes the comment something to the effect that the toothed blade gives you the ability to remove a lot of material quickly without causing tearout. So, is this just marketing lingo and it isn't a great tool for "roughing" or is it just a preference thing?

[steven c newman]

Hype. Toothed is nice for preparing a "bed" for veneer.....I don't even like it for flattening a bench top....leaves dirt traps that can mar a surface.

[Patrick Chase]

Hype. Toothed is nice for preparing a "bed" for veneer.....I don't even like it for flattening a bench top....leaves dirt traps that can mar a surface.

I think they have their place for smoothing. I have the Ulmia, and I've had good luck using it to work difficult grain, which can then be cleaned up with a scraper or (if lucky) smoother.

[Patrick Chase]

I'm so confused now because I was watching this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl8Tj1lUha4 in an attempt to learn about the toothed blade and in the first 30 seconds, he makes the comment something to the effect that the toothed blade gives you the ability to remove a lot of material quickly without causing tearout. So, is this just marketing lingo and it isn't a great tool for "roughing" or is it just a preference thing?

This is a tricky topic IMO. One thing to be aware of is that there are multiple kinds of toothed blades, with different cutting mechanics and for different applications.

The classic "toothing plane" that's been around for ages (IDK how long exactly, but on the order of a couple centuries) looks like this (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ecetoothingplane.aspx). Toothing planes have cutting angles of 60 deg and up, and are used for final surface preparation as I outlined. I believe that may be what Malcom had in mind as well.

In the past couple decades a couple makers have marketed toothing irons for use in low-angle Jacks like your 62. They have very different cutting mechanics than traditional toothing planes, and are sometimes recommended for intermediate use to "clean up" after the traditional roughing pass but before jointing. In the video Deneb suggests exactly that, as he demonstrates using the toothed iron to clean up tearout left from roughing with a powered jointer or scrub (he mentions both). I have a blade like that for my Veritas bevel-up jack (a similar "62-1/2" sized plane) but have never found much use for it. I go straight from roughing to flattening/jointing, which is the traditional progression.

I think that a reasonable rule of thumb for something like this is: If you're not sure you need it then you almost certainly don't. If you want to flatten and thickness stock by hand then start with a jack, scrub, or fore (the traditional roughing planes) and then move from that to your jointer. If you're roughing with a powered jointer and planer or buying s4s stock then go from those to your #7. It's fun to acquire and play with toys, but the traditional 3-step rough-joint-smooth progression exists for sound reasons, and we don't need to stray from that very often.

[Mike Brady]

I agree with Patrick's remarks. The toothed blade is a useful addition to the longer planes, but may not be the whole answer for working rough boards. I like my 5-1/2 with a toothed blade; which also will fit my No. 7. One thing I might add is that that toothed blade is slower that a cambered blade but it stays sharper longer and virtually eliminates tear-out. It depends on how bad the un-planed surface is and also how much thickness needs to be removed.

[JohnM Martin]

Thanks all for the feedback. It sounds like the consensus is that the best option would be a proper scrub or fore plane. I appreciate the insight. I'll start looking in that direction.

[Patrick Chase]

The classic "toothing plane" that's been around for ages (IDK how long exactly, but on the order of a couple centuries) looks like this (http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/ecetoothingplane.aspx). Toothing planes have cutting angles of 60 deg and up, and are used for final surface preparation as I outlined. I believe that may be what Malcom had in mind as well.

An additional remark: Stanley sold toothed irons for the #12 veneer scraper and #112 scraping plane, and Veritas and L-N both sell toothed irons for their respective large (112-ish) scraping planes. In terms of cutting mechanics and application those are broadly similar to traditional toothing planes, albeit with even higher cutting angles.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I'm going to differ a bit from the others. I work with a lot of mahogany and it is VERY tricky and loves to tear out. I have the Veritas low angle jack- the equivalent to the Lie-Nielsen No. 62. I bought the toothed iron for roughing in tricky woods prior to flattening with a jointer. I liked it so much that I use it all the time and, unless the wood is really crooked, I don't use the scrub plane. I can be aggressive with the toothed iron in the jack and remove a lot of stock really fast. It leaves a grooved surface that very easily smooths out with the next step- a No. 7 or No. 8 jointer. Of course I finish with a smoothing plane. In the video you linked to, you can see how Deneb is fairly aggressive and removing a lot of stock.

Steven C Newman- you lost me with the comment about dirt traps. You just go right from the toothing iron to the jointer and return it to a smooth finish. I don't understand where dirt is getting in during that short time.

[steven c newman]

Haven't been around my bench, then. Grit from when any sandpaper gets used....rust from the rehabs. I prefer a slick surface on the bench, one I can just wipe clean with a rag. Toothed blades just add extra step I really do not need to mess with.

[Patrick Chase]

I'm going to differ a bit from the others. I work with a lot of mahogany and it is VERY tricky and loves to tear out. I have the Veritas low angle jack- the equivalent to the Lie-Nielsen No. 62. I bought the toothed iron for roughing in tricky woods prior to flattening with a jointer. I liked it so much that I use it all the time and, unless the wood is really crooked, I don't use the scrub plane. I can be aggressive with the toothed iron in the jack and remove a lot of stock really fast. It leaves a grooved surface that very easily smooths out with the next step- a No. 7 or No. 8 jointer. Of course I finish with a smoothing plane. In the video you linked to, you can see how Deneb is fairly aggressive and removing a lot of stock.

... and this is one of the reasons why woodworking is such an interesting pursuit IMO. There's almost always more than one way to do it :-).

[Archie England]

Twists, cups, bows, and crooks--the four typical warps of wood, need a plane to "hog" off a lot of wood in the initial shaping. I bought a scrub plane (and it works great), but I tend to use a #5 or #6 much more often to accomplish that task. I keep a couple planes with camber and they work quickly. Once I prepare for jointing, I'll use a different #6 or an #8, depending on the length of the wood. As Patrick just said above, there's so many ways to arrive....

[Warren Mickley]

There is more than one way to prepare stock, but some are quite clumsy.

The No. 62 plane, like 60, 61, 63 etc. was designed and marketed as a low angle block plane. It was made for planing endgrain where two hands are helpful because the surface is large or the timber is hard or both. I can't imagine a serious worker using this plane with a toothing iron.

The traditional tool is a plane in the the 14-18 inch range with a double iron. A wooden jack plane is more comfortable to use and less tiring. It does take some skill.

[Patrick Chase]

The traditional tool is a plane in the the 14-18 inch range with a double iron. A wooden jack plane is more comfortable to use and less tiring. It does take some skill.

FWIW I usually rough with a #5, and sometimes with a #6. In either case they have substantially cambered irons (6" and 10" radius respectively IIRC). In other words, exactly what Warren suggests.

I also have a scrub but it sees less than the two bench planes.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Haven't been around my bench, then. Grit from when any sandpaper gets used....rust from the rehabs. I prefer a slick surface on the bench, one I can just wipe clean with a rag. Toothed blades just add extra step I really do not need to mess with.

You don't leave the toothed pattern. It is part of the intermediate steps. After using it, you plane it smooth. The reason for the toothing iron in this case is that it allows quick stock removal without tear-out. It leaves a raked finish, but then you take down the rough finish with a jointer and smoother. The ridges easily plane off and you're back to a smooth finish, but avoided the tear-out getting there.

[steven c newman]

I usually prefer this..
363357
Set up the same as C. Schwarz does..
363358
Nice little radius. Then the #6c, then the smoother...done.