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Jerry Watenpaugh
07-03-2017, 10:34 AM
Hello,
I've been a carpenter in the construction trade for 25 years, but have recently started getting more into the woodworking/hand tool arena. Long story short, I've been bitten by the hand plane bug.

I picked up this Union 4 1/2 at an antique shop which by all accounts of everything I've read so far is one of the earliest models from the pre-Stanley buy out. According to the location and content of the stamping I read that it should be 1900-1903 approximately. I'm wondering if these are kind of rare since I've looked all over the internet and can only find a couple of pictures of ones like this.

Since I am pretty new to hand planes and collecting I was hoping to ask a few questions of the experts on here since I definitely want to restore this plane.

1) The aqua paint and brown paint on the back of the frog,...I'm guessing was just a way for a previous owner to mark or identify their tools? It appears there is no japanning at all.

2) The word "second" is stamped on the side....another owner mark or something from the factory??

3) Unfortunately, it has an old Stanley iron and not the original thicker Union iron, I saw this when I bought it but was not a deal breaker. But, do I buy a Hock iron and put in or do I buy a Union transitional off ebay and switch the iron back and forth when I am using them?

4) What's the best source of information for restoring this correctly?

Thank you all, I appreciate any information.

Jim Koepke
07-03-2017, 12:04 PM
Howdy Jerry and welcome to the Creek.

None of your images show the lateral lever from an angle to show if the disk is mounted above or below the pivot pin.

This is only my opinion but it may be a previous owner stripped the japanning and started to paint it with a custom color scheme. To the best of my knowledge Union planes were japanned just like other makers. An owner working in a shop wanting to distinguish their plane from others would have painted over the japanning.

Not sure about the side being stamped "second." Some Stanley planes have a similar marking that was done in the factory. Many manufactures have sold their lesser quality products at a discount through secondary markets.

As far as the iron goes, if the Stanley iron works why change it? Though the production numbers may be lower than Stanley, rarity isn't necessarily what drives up the value. Demand drives the price. Most old tool buyers prefer Stanley planes because the are easier to find parts for restorations.

Here are a couple of links to more information:

http://www.timetestedtools.net/2016/01/27/union-planes-and-what-i-know-about-them/

https://timetestedtools.forumchitchat.com/post/information-on-typing-union-bench-planes-7539560

Not sure if it will have any information you haven't already found.

If it were mine, the off color paints would be stripped off, unpainted areas masked and black gloss enamel would be used to redo the surfaces. Then it would be either put to use or sold.

jtk

steven c newman
07-03-2017, 1:58 PM
Disc is above the rivet on the OP's
The one below is from a Union No. 5-A ( #5-1/2)
363129

Jim Koepke
07-03-2017, 6:01 PM
Disc is above the rivet on the OP's

Thanks Steven, It looked like that but I hate to guess and be wrong. Though I tend to do it all the time.

Blowing the image up large clears it up.

jtk

Jerry Watenpaugh
07-04-2017, 10:14 AM
Thanks Jim!
I understand demand drives the price, I'm not too worried about that because I plan to keep and use it after the restoration. It just seems like there are not many of these around and was wondering if that was correct.

You are right, the Stanley iron might work great and it might not even need a replacement I haven't even had a chance yet to sharpen it and take it for a test run. Being a newbie to this, I just thought it would be nice to get it as close to original as possible and also I've read that these Unions perform nicely with the thicker irons that's all.

Also as Steven mentioned below, the disc is above the pivot pin just as in his picture, but what does that mean? Is that an identifier of age or brand or quality or something else? I've read mention of that in other articles but not sure what it signifies.

I was wondering what to recoat the bed with - black gloss enamel - thank you.

I might have already read up at Timetesedtools, but I'll go check it out and see.

Thanks Very Much Jim, I appreciate all the good info!

Jerry

Jerry Watenpaugh
07-04-2017, 10:23 AM
Thanks Steven, Yes the disc on mine is above the pivot pin just like yours. Though mine is not in quite as good of shape as your nice 5-A! Just trying to figure out the significance of the disc location.

Thanks

Jim Koepke
07-04-2017, 11:32 AM
It just seems like there are not many of these around and was wondering if that was correct.

The #4-1/2 wasn't a popular size. Almost every carpenter/woodworker had a #4, a #5 or both in their kit. The other sizes were less common in use.


You are right, the Stanley iron might work great and it might not even need a replacement I haven't even had a chance yet to sharpen it and take it for a test run. Being a newbie to this, I just thought it would be nice to get it as close to original as possible and also I've read that these Unions perform nicely with the thicker irons that's all.


For something like this, if you want to get an original iron, set up a search on ebay to watch for the blade or check with the usual sources like Patrick Leach, http://www.supertool.com/ or nhplaneparts on ebay.


Also as Steven mentioned below, the disc is above the pivot pin just as in his picture, but what does that mean? Is that an identifier of age or brand or quality or something else?

I think this is unique to early Union planes. With the common arrangement the lateral lever is moved toward the side with the blade set too deep. With this configuration the lever is pushed toward the side the user wants to cut deeper. To me this is a more natural set up, but sensible doesn't always win.

jtk

Jerry Watenpaugh
07-04-2017, 2:58 PM
Thanks much Jim for the great info, I appreciate it!

Jerry

Dave Beauchesne
07-04-2017, 3:19 PM
[QUOTE=Jerry Watenpaugh;2704371





I was wondering what to recoat the bed with - black gloss enamel - thank you.




Jerry[/QUOTE]
Jerry: I have a couple planes that, upon taking the tote off, have had a chance to look at original, unmolested Japanning. It has a bit of a ' satin ' or ' flat ' finish versus gloss. I have seen glossy black painted plane bodies and they look horrendous ( IMHO ) - all that I am saying is that you may want to try and get a paint that isn't so glossy. It will look better. Just my two cents. - Dave B

steven c newman
07-04-2017, 3:57 PM
Rustoleum Engine enamel semi gloss...works nicely:D

Jim Koepke
07-04-2017, 5:12 PM
I have seen glossy black painted plane bodies and they look horrendous ( IMHO )

I think it is all in the eye of the owner. We have had some members who like to paint their planes in brick red or British racing green. Some might choose Record blue and another a white ivory color.

For me, a gloss enamel was chosen because it was selling at $0.99 for a large spray can at Home Depot. Gloss enamel also feels good on the parts of the hand that come into contact with it in use.

jtk

Jerry Watenpaugh
07-07-2017, 11:04 AM
Thanks for the advice Dave. There was nothing under the tote, but I did find what seemed to be a small remaining bit under the knob and it was more of a satin black. I do prefer more of a satin finish and that is what my Wood River has, it appears to me as something in between a satin and semi-gloss. I just thought that maybe "antique" planes had a standard finish on them. But from the sounds of your comment and Steven's and Jim's below, even with antique planes it is up to the owner. I'm sure it depends on if one is going to sell it or not.