RTM Stains

[David Boardman]

I have been talking back and forth with my rep at General Finishes and he has sent me a couple quarts of their RTM stains. Anyone use them or know how well they work on soft woods like pine. He is pushing me to switch to the pro line of products, right now I use GF gel stains and High performance poly. I like the idea of having control over the colors and the fact that they are water based is a huge plus. I am just wondering if they are going to blotch. I think ML campbell carries a similar product line so if you use that I'd love to hear about it.

[Andy Giddings]

I've not used RTM but have used the retail water based stain (not the dye) which looks similar from the spec. I've also used the GF Gel stains. In terms of blotch the water based stains are a lot better than the dye stains, don't dry as rapidly which gives you time to blend different surfaces and are nowhere near as sensitive to lap marks. While not as easy as a Gel or Oil, they don't mask the grain as much as a full pigment based stain does. They also give a rich color with one coat. You still have to work quickly if you're wiping, but not like the mad panic I experience with dyes on Maple.

So somewhere between an Oil/Gel and Dye stain without most of the drawbacks

[John TenEyck]

Sorry, no experience with RTM stains, but they look very versatile. My comment relates to HP Poly. That's a fine product; sprays beautifully, very clear, excellent UV stabilizer package, but it has poor chemical durability. I almost never use it anymore after I moved up to Enduro Clear Poly. Clear Poly sprays just as easily with no thinning required, is just as clear, and is a lot more durable. It doesn't have a UV package, or at least GF doesn't say it does, but I haven't had any yellowing problems in the 4 or 5 years I've been using it. I think it even costs less than HP Poly.

I would consider the RTM stains just to stay with a WB system. HP Poly does not like to stick to gel stains unless they dry for at least 48 hours. With WB stain, you could spray the topcoat in less than 24 hours.

John

[David Boardman]

The spark that got us talking was what I think to be a bad batch of poly. I had 4 table tops come back to me out of a 5 gallon pale with peeling issues. I explained my technique and he said it could be the batch or it could be an issue with the adhesion between the oil based poly in the gel stain and the water based poly. Last year I used right at 50 gallons of high performance and those 4 tables are my only returned products so I'm still sticking with the mindset that it's the polys fault. Either way the costs seem to be substantially less if I were to make the move to clear poly and the rtm stains.

[John TenEyck]

I doubt those failures were from bad product. Putting HP Poly over OB stain is asking for trouble; I've had it happen. The only way to guarantee adhesion is to spray a sealer over the stain, but you still have to wait for the stain to be really dry. Moving to a complete WB system is good - less chance of problems, faster, cheaper, and more durable. What's not to like?

I'm not trying to bad mouth HP Poly, it's a good product, but I'd never use it on a table top that's going to get much abuse like a kitchen or dining room table.

John

[Michael Roberts]

I started using the RTM stains a few years ago. I haven't used them on any soft wood, but I have used them on some blotch-prone cherry with good results. I like to use it as a spray and wipe - don't let it puddle if you want to avoid blotching.

I couldn't find a picture of the cherry finished product, but here is one I did out of African mahogany. RTM spray and wipe, top coated with GF Clear Poly.

362982

[David Boardman]

I started using the RTM stains a few years ago. I haven't used them on any soft wood, but I have used them on some blotch-prone cherry with good results. I like to use it as a spray and wipe - don't let it puddle if you want to avoid blotching.

I couldn't find a picture of the cherry finished product, but here is one I did out of African mahogany. RTM spray and wipe, top coated with GF Clear Poly.

362982

Thank you! That looks fantastic. Well I have probably 8 quarts of RTM on the way and I know he is sending me 10 gallons of clear poly. I am pretty much sold on the swap. Now the only bad thing is the price is going to be so much less that I might not be able to make the yearly minimum with General Finishes! Either that or I am going to have a lot of product sitting around. I love the idea of being able to tint the clear poly for a bit more depth as well.

What is the waste like on spraying the stain? Obviously the overspray if any, but do you find yourself wasting product?

[John TenEyck]

FYI, you can tint any of GF's WB clear coats using Transtint dye.

If you need to increase your yearly purchase just buy a few gallons of their Conversion Varnish! A more practical option is to let a friend, etc. purchase finish through your account.

John

[Andy Giddings]

Thank you! That looks fantastic. Well I have probably 8 quarts of RTM on the way and I know he is sending me 10 gallons of clear poly. I am pretty much sold on the swap. Now the only bad thing is the price is going to be so much less that I might not be able to make the yearly minimum with General Finishes! Either that or I am going to have a lot of product sitting around. I love the idea of being able to tint the clear poly for a bit more depth as well.

What is the waste like on spraying the stain? Obviously the overspray if any, but do you find yourself wasting product?
David, there are plenty of GF users on this forum who would gladly accept donations to help you meet your minimum spend :-)

[Michael Roberts]

The beauty of the RTM system is very little waste. You only mix as much as you need. Much less waste than buying a can for a project and then letting the left over sit around forever.

[Gary Muto]

I use the GF RTM stains. I have the kit with the 150 or so wood samples with the corresponding formulas. It is very economical once you have it since you can mix only what you need. I get flawless matches too. In fact, I get better matches with veneer and hardwood combinations than I do with the retail stains. I highly recommend the RTM system.