30W Fiber Laser purchase

[Erik Goetheer]

I finally decided to actually get a portable 30W fiber laser (about 600-700 USD more expensive than a 20W), with rotary, and I received a first quoation, from Rayfine. I will ask more quotations from two or three other companies, but berfore I do that I want to clear some questions that I have. BTW, I will use the fiber laser for metal marking (duh) including photo 'engraving' on silver and gold necklaces, engraving and cutting duo-colored plastics, etc. And I plan to take it to all kind of (pet) shows and fairs. I'm not interested in color marking.

First question: Rayfine offered a machine with a Raycus laser source (type unknown) or a JPT LP laser source. I checked the JPT website but it's too technical for me. Here is a picture from the quotaton with some technical info. What I want to know is if the JPT LP justifies a price increase of 300 USD compared to Raycus source (the price difference is 200 USD for the 20W lasers). What's your opinion?

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Fiber%20Laser/Fiber%20Laser%20source%20in%20quotation_zpseztbyy6 u.png (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Fiber%20Laser/Fiber%20Laser%20source%20in%20quotation_zpseztbyy6 u.png.html)


Second question: a rotating worktable is an option. What's the common use for it?

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Fiber%20Laser/Rotating%20work%20table_zpst2zujlbs.png (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Fiber%20Laser/Rotating%20work%20table_zpst2zujlbs.png.html)


Third: I will get two safey goggles, priced at 60 USD each. Is that a good price?

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Fiber%20Laser/goggles_zpstfcezzom.png (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Fiber%20Laser/goggles_zpstfcezzom.png.html)


Fourth: In the quoation a 110x110 mm lens is standard offered. Great for smaller items with good details I guess. As an extra lens I would opt for a 200x200mm (each lens costs 150 USD). Good idea?

Fifth: How critical is having the correct focus on the substrates and how accurate is the height adjustment of these Chinese lasers?

Sixth: What about the depth of (focus) field of the different lenses, can you play a bit with it with some specific tasks as you can with CO2 lasers? For instante get a bit out of focus while engraving trolase.

Seventh (also CO2 related): I want to cut and engrave more 2-colored UV-resistant plastics than I do now and I think the material that you often see (Rowmark, Trotec) is pretty expensive. Does someone has a good Chinese source?

That's it, for now. :) I checked the forum of course for information, so other questions that I had were answered, but not the above ones.

Finally, I'm not interested in the Cyclops Camera System, I will use the red marking area. However, the X-Y table (130 USD), yes or no? Hm .....

[John Lifer]

Erik, I'lll pipe up and the difference in those two is the pulse rate. You can get below 20 and about 80 on the jpt. Which is what I've got. Enables more range of colors on titanium, and more range of materials plastic tag you want to engraved? 300 kHz with Jo, nada with racist. I would get the rotary with horizontal Axis. You can engraved on round items and inside rings. The one shown is useless in most cases. Yes get the larger lens, that is half price if you want later, over 300 on all sources. You can move the head up and down to adjust easy. It starts and you can creep up on need. I realky haven't tried rowmark will go do some in a bit just to see what it does. Plastic does stink just like with CO2 you might have to be outside or have a small vac to suck up and dissipate odors if you are at show.
I didn't do it, but get 2 pair of glasses. Especially if there is potential of someone being with you.

Focus is fairly critical, just depends on what you are doing. Being out of focus is beneficial for some uses.

Good luck. I'm buying most of my sheet from a JDS which offers Gemini brand. A bit cheaper, but don't know if they have eu presence. No chinese makers that I know of.

[John Lifer]

Oh, I use my xy table all the time! It is bolted to the base right now, Because I was placing heavy items on it and they extended over it's edges. It is heavy enough to sit loose, especially for hand sized items. And getting mark in exactly the right pace without touching it is great. Wouldn't be without it! Especially using ezcad where placement isn't always exactly where you want it. Resizing script, etc. You can easily move I ezcad by using arrows. But not good fast enough for me

Oh, price difference has come down. Mine was about $500 more. Or racus gone up?

[John Lifer]

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Erik, here is my setup, you can see both the table and the rotary in the back. It will sit on the x-y but I usually take off the x-y to use the rotary.
Tried some plastic, with limited success......
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Black face, white base engraved well, Brushed silver failed. It bubbled badly. I tried a couple of different bases with brushed silver, same. you can see in the red it bubbles.
You Can't cut it with fiber, figure to cut with CO2 and have available in select colors to engrave.

[Erik Goetheer]

Thanks for your inout John. Yes, I already thought that the rotary worktable has little use.

Blanca offered this rotary with horizontal axis in her quotation:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Fiber%20Laser/Rotary%201_zpsigerssrf.png (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Fiber%20Laser/Rotary%201_zpsigerssrf.png.html)


Is that the one you have? And are you sure that that one can engrave inside rings with it? I'm asking because Rayfine also has this one available, which is especially for ring making (price: 250 USD):

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Fiber%20Laser/Rotary%202_zpsl003owjp.png (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Fiber%20Laser/Rotary%202_zpsl003owjp.png.html)


BTW, I like pictures, I think that there are way too little on this forum. :)

[John Lifer]

Yes, second is specifically used for rings. Really it might be better for a lot of stuff, appears the studs are removable/adjustable which would leave you with three jaws to hold other stuff. I didn't see that one, might have gone with it!

Worktable might be good for specific items, I just can't think of any. Ah, settings in ezcad for engraving round objects that didn't seem like horizontal axis rotary would be appropriate!

[James Walker]

John, I believe that rotating worktable is for continuous production runs. You set up stops so that they position a new part at a specified index angle. For example if you set 12 stops at 30 degree increments then once positioned for proper location you home that as 0. Then you can place 12 parts on the table and after each part is complete it will index and do another. An operator can replace a finished part with a new one to keep the machine running continuous until the run is complete.

[John Lifer]

That would work, place back under laser head and extend front ( or I guess a left or right side) out away from head and it would rotate under it. Would work well for flat objects. Hmm, don't need that yet. :D

[Bill George]

Cyclops Camera system allows you to place the object any orientation you want on the table and its lined up perfect every time. It has to be taught the first time I assume. No building jigs or otherwise.
Those chucks have a standard metric mounting thread you can purchase other sizes as needed.

[Kev Williams]

Thanks for your inout John. Yes, I already thought that the rotary worktable has little use.

Blanca offered this rotary with horizontal axis in her quotation:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Fiber%20Laser/Rotary%201_zpsigerssrf.png (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Fiber%20Laser/Rotary%201_zpsigerssrf.png.html)


Is that the one you have? And are you sure that that one can engrave inside rings with it? I'm asking because Rayfine also has this one available, which is especially for ring making (price: 250 USD):

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f307/ckong65/Fiber%20Laser/Rotary%202_zpsl003owjp.png (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/ckong65/media/Fiber%20Laser/Rotary%202_zpsl003owjp.png.html)


BTW, I like pictures, I think that there are way too little on this forum. :)

Both of these rotaries are essentially identical. The chucks are different obviously, this one on the bottom with the moving pins could come in handy. The other thing I like about it is it looks to be about 4 pounds lighter than the cast iron one ;) - but if you need to HOLD something, the iron one is a good choice. and FWIW, these iron chucks and jaws are pretty much the same as what's on my 15 year old Harbor Freight mini lathe. My fiber's chuck is identical to it. So to choose which rotaray, basically, take your pick :)

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[Erik Goetheer]

Thanks Kev for clearing this up.

[Erik Goetheer]

That would work, place back under laser head and extend front ( or I guess a left or right side) out away from head and it would rotate under it. Would work well for flat objects. ..... :D

Not just flat necessarily, I saw a video of a rotating worktable engraving pens, looked like a very smooth production process. But do I have the need for it at the moment? Hm....

I would like to know something more about the difference between Raycus and the JPT LP regarding pulse repetition range and pulse duration. Blanca tells me that the JPT LP will be able to clean up metal surfaces so that the original metal is shown again. This because of the high possible pulse repetition. Furthermore the JPT LP would be able to do 'in-focus' stainless steel black marking where as the Raycus can only do this when it is 'out of focus' and you would need to trial and error to find the best 'out of focus' spot.

Does anyone has experience with these two advantages of the JPT LP?

Apparently the JPT LP has a fixed pulse duration of 200ns, where the Raycus has a pulse duration range of 90-130ns (dependent on the chosen pulse repetition). Is this an advantage or an disadvantage of the JPT LP?

All in all the JPT seems to be able to handle more different processes and materials than the Raycus. Unfortunately the price difference for the 30W version is $ 400, which makes it harder to decide for which version I will go.

[Bruce Clumpner]

Interesting that the chucks are that similar? Wonder if Harbor Freight still has that machine, and if the chuck could be adapted to the epilog rotary device? Hm....

[John Lifer]

Erik, spend the money for the jpt. I've the 20 watt and the higher kHz does help with some plastics and metaland as I said earlier, buy ALL the accessories you want. Shipping is near zero extra. Lenses are over $300 but added to machine cost about half that. Get your two rotary and a xy table and extra glasses!

[Erik Goetheer]

Erik, spend the money for the jpt. I've the 20 watt and the higher kHz does help with some plastics and metaland as I said earlier, buy ALL the accessories you want. Shipping is near zero extra. Lenses are over $300 but added to machine cost about half that. Get your two rotary and a xy table and extra glasses!


:D Yep, I'm in for everything! Still have to find out hot deep my wallet is. Fortunatley prices are going down a bit and the USD too (I'm in Euro country :cool: )

[Kev Williams]

Interesting that the chucks are that similar? Wonder if Harbor Freight still has that machine, and if the chuck could be adapted to the epilog rotary device? Hm....
Here's my 15 year old one and the same thing for sale online-
364301364302
--other than different stickers and some safety guards (ahem ;) ) they're virtually the same.

The jaws on this chuck work in the fiber's chuck (and vice versa) perfectly. Now, whether you can buy just a chuck from HF I'm not sure but I'm sure you could get one easy enough somewhere. Making it fit anything you want is a matter of machining a new back plate for the chuck that the other end of fits your Epi rotary. My V3400 cylinder machine has a 5" chuck that was too big for a certain job many years ago, I just made a pair of aluminum adapter plates that allowed me to swap the chucks.

[Bill George]

My Little Machine Shop 7x16 lathe same as Kev's has a bolt on chuck. However my chuck from Ray Fine for the fiber has Metric threads on the back and it just screws on. Its a common size and I found on eBay for less than $100 US. Little Machine Shop carries a lot of hobby machine shop machines and tooling. Nice people and fair.

[Erik Goetheer]

OK, I'm about to pull the trigger on this fiber laser purchase, so I better get my workshop ready for it. Should be little hassle, but I'm wondering how to deal with the air extraction. I know that fiber lasering is something completely else than CO2 cutting and engraving, but still there will be some fumes, gasses and particles come from the lasered surface. How do you guys deal with this (pictures please)?

[Bill George]

Since no wood, no plastics I just put a small fan by my machine and blow anything generated away from the work and let the shop exhaust take it out. If your getting one in an enclosure then someone else needs to reply.

[Kev Williams]

From the 'whatever works' category ;) --but it does!
364792
the exhaust tube is held by a piece of welding rod hung from the rafters, connected to a 4" plastic sewer Y pipe-- the exhaust going up goes up and over the door, then down to my LS900 laser which I'm leaning against to take the pic, the down pipe goes thru a hole I cut in the door, the blower is just outside the door in the bottom of the basement stairwell. From the blower the pipe goes up the stair well cement wall and runs under the iron railing, and sits on ground behind some bushes. Been like that for 15 years (same blower too :) )

I put a $4 HF blast gate on the end, the LS900 has its own blast gate so I can steer the air any way I need to. The LS900 exhausts so well that I can close its blast gate by half or more, leave the fiber's gate wide open, and it'll still remove all smoke easily with the door shut.

Using the flex pipe I can put the fiber exhaust pretty much anywhere I need it, but as you see it, it works pretty well just like that!

[Erik Goetheer]

That looks good, Kev, flexible and pretty easy to install. I'm planning to put the fiber next to the CO2, so I can indeed connect it to the CO2's exhaust pipe with a Y-connection. thanks for this idea. :)

[John Lifer]

I don't exhaust mine at this point. Small fan would be good, I don't do much plastic, but It will smell. Metal really doesn't bother me .. If it is close enough, just do as Kev did.

[Jacob John]

That looks good, Kev, flexible and pretty easy to install. I'm planning to put the fiber next to the CO2, so I can indeed connect it to the CO2's exhaust pipe with a Y-connection. thanks for this idea. :)

That's all I plan on doing because I won't be running them both at the same time. I'm going to piggy back off of my CO2 system.

[Erik Goetheer]

Countdown started today. Ordered and paid for the 30W JPT LP fiber laser from Ray Fine. Express delivery, so should be at my workshop pretty soon. :)

[Jacob John]

Countdown started today. Ordered and paid for the 30W JPT LP fiber laser from Ray Fine. Express delivery, so should be at my workshop pretty soon. :)

Getting the same thing, but I'm getting the MOPA. I'll be a guinea pig and see how much hair I can pull out testing the color marking.

[Erik Goetheer]

Look what arrived today! A Rayfine 30W fiber laser. :) And I still can't believe how well shipping went. I opted for door to door delivery, Blanca gave me the T&T number last Monday, 3 days ago, and delivery was today, at my door! And not one question from customs or the tax authorities. And I even didn't have to pay duties or VAT. Really great.

Tomorrow will be unpacking day.

[John Lifer]

NICE! Unpack that baby! Hope you've been reading!

[Bill George]

Mine was almost too well packed! It would be nice having someone help get it out the crate as its in two pieces linked together with a flex conduit. At least mine was anyway.

[Erik Goetheer]

NICE! Unpack that baby! Hope you've been reading!


:) So I did. it was packed really well, it took about 45 minutes to get the lase rout of the box, by myseld (it's almost 2 AM here, everybody is at sleep). All looks great and everything that I ordered is present, 2 lenses, 2 goggles, rotary, x-y table, rotating table, some docs and software and some other stuff. Oh, and the laser itself of course.. Cool :)

[Erik Goetheer]

Hm, be aware that if you order a 200x200mm lens (F290)at Rayfine, you actually get a 180x180 lens (F254), with their argument being "We adopt F254 and the size could up to 200x200mm". Well, I'm not going to argue about this with Blanca, not worth the effort and F254 is still a nice addition next to the standard F160. But you're warned. :cool:

[Erik Goetheer]

There is a separate ground cable attached at the back of the fiber laser, which you can connect to an earth point. In my case not really needed though because the laser is also grounded through the regular power cable (I checked) and all wall sockets are connected to earth. :)

[John Lifer]

I did connect it to my conduit, as machine is sitting under the outlet and wire provided was adequately long, but it really isn't needed. I think that the Chinese totally ground thru separate line in most cases and their power lines aren't provided with good ground. oh, check your email Erik!

[Erik Goetheer]

....oh, check your email Erik!

Noticed 2 mails coming in, will read them later today. But thanks in advance. :)