Lie Nielsen 10 1/4 vs Veritas Jack Rabbet

[brian zawatsky]

I'm currently agonizing over which of these potentially magnificent planes to purchase. I do a fair amount of larger-scale joinery, and I was sorely lacking a good bench rabbet plane on the last breadboard tenon I made. I'm not opposed to buying vintage, but I definitely want cross-grain nickers, so I'm limited to a Stanley 10 1/4, and they are tough to find & super expensive in decent shape.

So aside from the blatantly obvious (standard pitch with the LN and low angle bevel up with the LV), can anyone out there recommend one of these over the other? And why?

I really like the traditional style of LN's planes, and the no 4 1/2 smoother that I caved in for recently is a work of art. I'm not a big fan of Veritas's aesthetics, but I like the features on their jack rabbet. And either one is north of 300 bucks, so I'll probably analyze this to death.

Any votes?

[Patrick Chase]

I'm currently agonizing over which of these potentially magnificent planes to purchase. I do a fair amount of larger-scale joinery, and I was sorely lacking a good bench rabbet plane on the last breadboard tenon I made. I'm not opposed to buying vintage, but I definitely want cross-grain nickers, so I'm limited to a Stanley 10 1/4, and they are tough to find & super expensive in decent shape.

So aside from the blatantly obvious (standard pitch with the LN and low angle bevel up with the LV), can anyone out there recommend one of these over the other? And why?

I really like the traditional style of LN's planes, and the no 4 1/2 smoother that I caved in for recently is a work of art. I'm not a big fan of Veritas's aesthetics, but I like the features on their jack rabbet. And either one is north of 300 bucks, so I'll probably analyze this to death.

Any votes?

I have both, and my "vote" is that it depends what you plan to do with it. The L-N's big advantage is that it's a bevel-down plane, which means that you can use the cap iron to manage tearout. While this may seem like a big advantage, you have to ask yourself how often you'll be working "show" surfaces with this plane. The Veritas has all of the usual BU traits - Easy to set up, flexibility of cutting angle, etc.

Some random thoughts/observations:

1. I like the nicker adjustments better on the Veritas. The L-N's nickers are fixed in width (though obviously you can bend or shim them) and simply slide to adjust in depth. The Veritas has screw-driven adjustments in both width and depth. In practice this isn't a huge deal, but it's noticeable.

2. I slightly prefer the tote rotation lock on the L-N as I find it a little more "positive" (though I prefer Veritas tote geometries in general). On a related note I think that the tilting totes/knobs are a key feature of this type of plane. I sometimes use mine in situations where I don't need rabbetting capability just because of that.

3. The cap iron on my L-N came with its leading edge a tiny bit out of square. This wouldn't be a problem or even noticeable on a conventional plane, but it can be on a dual-sided rabbet because the cap iron is also basically as wide as the blade. When I closed it down uniformly enough to control tearout a bit of the cap iron extended out a tiny bit past the edge of the iron in the flush-cut region. I fixed this by grinding a very small amount of lengthwise taper into the sides of the cap iron just behind the leading edge. I'm sure that L-N would have taken care of it for me if I'd asked, but it was a 2-minute fix that didn't impact cosmetics so I just did it.

You can't really go wrong either way IMO. Derek Cohen has a review of the LV on his site, though I don't use mine for general-purpose work to the extent he demonstrated.

[John Schtrumpf]

I have the Lee Valley / Veritas bevel up Jack Rabbet plane. The biggest advantage the bevel up Jack Rabbet has, are fences. It comes with an under slung fence for rabbeting. For angled / beveled edges you can either make and attach a fixed angle wood block to that fence, or you can buy an optional Variable Angle Fence.

On the other hand (or maybe a case of the grass being greener on the other side of the fence). The Lie Nielsen 10¼ Rabbet plane has a chip breaker. Every once in a while I will be planing with the grain and hit rising grain. While I can set up my bevel up Jack Rabbet to minimize or eliminate tear out, I find a chip breaker to be easer to set.

[brian zawatsky]

Thank you, gentlemen for taking the time to offer your thoughts & observations. At the moment I'm leaning towards the LN, but I may vacillate...

[Pete Taran]

Brian,

You know you want the more traditional tool!

[Patrick Chase]

Brian,

You know you want the more traditional tool!

In that case he should ping your former business partner and see if he has a *real* 10-1/4 to sell :-).

A note to the OP: Don't bother. The last time I checked the used prices on those things were completely obscene (significantly more than the LN). It never had broad appeal, and the quantity available in the used market is therefore low.

[Derek Cohen]

I do a fair amount of larger-scale joinery, and I was sorely lacking a good bench rabbet plane on the last breadboard tenon I made.

If you are planing across the grain, then a lower cutting angle is preferred.

This tilts the scale towards the Veritas.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Kees Heiden]

Planing across the grain is so much easier then planing with the grain. A lower cutting angle isn't going to make the work easier enough to make a real difference.

If we were talking about endgrain, things would be different.

[Derek Cohen]

Kees, a lower cutting angle will still leave a cleaner finish. Higher angles can cause the wood fibres to crumble. That said, if the joint is hidden, then it does not matter that much.

If used largely with the grain, or split between across and with, then my preference is a cap iron, that is, the LN. If used predominantly across the grain (and end grain, as you mentioned), I would go with the Veritas.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[brian zawatsky]

Brian,

You know you want the more traditional tool!

Yeah, I absolutely do Pete. I just wanted to see if I would really be missing out on something worth while by not buying the ugly Veritas jack rabbet. Their tools - although well made - just don't appeal to my tastes aesthetically. I'll be vacationing in Maine near Acadia later this summer, so I may just wait until I can visit LN's store in person and walk out with one. Or maybe get lucky and find a Stanley 10 1/4 in the wild that doesn't cost a fortune.