Expansion Question

[Jim Benante]

I am building a changing table/dresser and have decided to go with solid wood for the side panels that will sit between two legs that are 1.5 X 1.75 in. The panel is 3/4 in. At first I thought I needed to make a raised panel to accomodate the expansion of the panel. I was OK with doing this, but would rather have a flat sided panel. After visiting Woodcraft and speaking to someone there he recommneded I use a tongue and groove router bit and to shave off about 1/16 off the tongue on the panel to allow expansion. This all sounded good to me until I slept on it and realized tha the shoulder of the tongue would still be pushed up against the leg and wouldn't have the freedom to expand.

Any suggestions on how to go about installing the panel. I've seen something called a V-Face Tongue and Groove Bit, but it cut a groove of 3/16 wide and 7/32 deep.

Here are the details:

Western Maple will be used and the panel will be about 16 inches wide. I will be glueing 4 pieces of 4 inch wide by 3/4 thick maple to create the panels.

I will be putting a frame at the top and bottom of the panel and an unsure of the joint to use, but was thinking about pocket screws as I plan to use them for other parts of the carcass. The finished product will end up looking like the photo in the link.

http://www.popsfurniture.com/shstbimach.html

[Steve Schoene]

Since you have a top and bottom rail, you can work the panel as a fairly standard floating panel. If you want a flat panel instead of a raised panel then you can make the panel "inside out" to fit in grooves in the legs and in the rails. This allows enough room to avoid having the shoulders on the panel pushing on the legs.

[Jim Benante]

Steve,

Are you saying to go with a raised panel just inside out? Will this cause problems with putting in drawer guides?

I should mention that I do not have the bits for making raised panels at this point.

Thanks,

Jim

[Steve Schoene]

Thats right. The panel could be "raised" on a table saw--all you need is a rabbet to create the thinner panel edge with enough width so it can move freely in grooves in the legs and rails, it doesn't have to be tapered even. This shouldn't take much if any more space on the inside than a raised panel turned the other way, so you should be able to fit drawer guides as usual.

Personally, I might think about ply panels--1/4" ply could be solidly glued to the legs and rails creating a very strong structure. I'd be particularly interested in doing this if you go with the pocket screws, which however efficient, are less sturdy than mortise and tenon would be.

[Jim Benante]

OK, sounds like two options-
1. I rabbet out the panel a little more than needed to fit in the groove it should work just fine, right? Since it will be on the inside the small gap between the shoulder and leg will not be seen.
2. Or I could raise the panel.

I know it sounds a little off using solid panels and pocket screws, I might consider the ply option, but I have a bunch of 4/4 maple to use and have a hard time paying for ply when I have a bunch of nice maple sitting around. I have one panel ready to be glued, but I suppose I could find another use for it like a drawer front or a different project like a side table.

I made a crib with maple and had a bit of a hard time with the mortise and tenons. They ended up working out well in the end, but they just ate up more time then I could have ever imagined.

I used a friends drill press and then squared the mortises with a chisel. Lots of chiseling! I didn't drill deep enough at first and had to chisel out a hefty portion. I have thought about a mortiser, but have never used one.

Anyone have comments on mortisers?

[Alan Turner]

Jim,

You have a muber of options here. I personally like flat panels for cleanliness of design. But, you don't need 3/4" thick panels. 5/16" would be fine. Even with only a tablesaw, you could resaw your 4" wide stock and go with thinner panels.

As to the joinery, with only a router you could use loose tenon joinery, or mortise and tenon joinery with rounded tenon ends. For this piece I would shy away from pocket screw joinery for the carcase joints.

[Dave Richards]

Alan is right, your panels don't need to be 3/4" thick. I would also go with 5/16" with a rabbet cut on the back on all edges to make a 1/4" tongue. The legs (stiles of the frames) will carry the load just fine.

Solid wood panels are fine. In fact, you could resaw the 3/4" stuff and book match the pieces before gluing.

I think I would also use loose tenon joinery considering the tools available. Easy to do.

[Jim Benante]

I thought 3/4 was too beefy, but didn't think about resawing, I was only thinking about putting the wood to use instead of planinig it down. My neighbor has a bandsaw that I could probably resaw on to avoid doing it on the TS.

Maybe I will go with loose tenons. Haven't tried those yet. What are the basic guidelines? My carcass will be made with 1.5 in wide by 3/4'' thick pieces. Should the loose tenon be 1/2'' wide and 1/4'' thick? Do you make the rounded edges with a roundover bit? Is the best bit for these mortises a 1/4" straight bit then?

[Alan Turner]

For stock that is 3/4" thick, the rails I assume, I would go with 1/4" loose tenons. As to the roundovers, I would either square the mortises (which I usually do, ro just plane or rasp the roundovers as this is quicker than setting up the router (which I use only when required anyway). Run your loose tenon stock just a drop heavy, and then set up a little piece of wood with a thin stop set up in your vise, and use a block plane to thin them just enough to be the right thickness. Only takes a sec., and gives a great fit.