Fe$tool Buys SawStop

[Ray Newman]

As seen on the Fine Woodworking site, Fe$tool bought SawStop.

"Tualatin, Oregon – June 26, 2017: SawStop today announced the acquisition of SawStop, LLC by TTS Tooltechnic Systems, a third-generation family-owned company based in Wendlingen, Germany. The TTS family of companies includes Festool, Tanos, Cleantec and others, and employs more than 2,500 people around the globe."


http://www.finewoodworking.com/2017/06/26/festool-buys-sawstop

[Bruce Page]

Yowza! This will be interesting. Are there future Festool tools coming with the break tech?

[Brian Henderson]

Does that mean Sawstop wasn't doing that well? Usually, very successful companies don't get sold.

[Jerry Wright]

Probably doing fine. Value probably increased with recent import protection wins. All private companies get sold as owners choose to retire.

[Ben Rivel]

We already have a thread on it: LINK (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?255840-Festool-Parent-(TTS)-Buying-Sawstop)

[Simon MacGowen]

Does that mean Sawstop wasn't doing that well? Usually, very successful companies don't get sold.

Actually, both very successful and very unsuccessful companies get sold, the former at a much higher price. Amazon, FB, Google etc. have paid billions to buy very successful companies while the opposite has been true with the oil industry in recent years.

No info. is (or will be) released on the money that SS owners will get, but since they won the patent battle, one can reasonably assume that the deal would be sweeter to them than otherwise.

Simon


A

[Martin Wasner]

That is odd. Premium German tool manufacture buys American importer of mediocre tool?

[Kurt Kintner]

Mediocre ??? Hardly .....

[David T gray]

Does that mean Sawstop wasn't doing that well? Usually, very successful companies don't get sold.

thats not even close to how it works :) by your assumption since all of these company used to independent they must all be un successful http://i.imgur.com/pnMMj.jpg

[Simon MacGowen]

Mediocre ??? Hardly .....

Yes, if one considered these as being mediocre:

1) It is the best cabinet saw in safety (despite all the rumors and fabricated stories, no one has sued SS because its safety feature failed to work)

2) It has one of the best over-arm dust collection features

3) It has one of the best hydraulic mobile bases for a cabinet saw

4) It has one of the best saw fences for a cabinet saw

5) Its sawing quality is also one of the best among cabinet saws

6) Its assembly manual is one of the best for any machine, not just for tablesaws.

Oh, yes, it is a mediocre machine to those who do not or never own a SS.

Simon

[Jim Becker]

Already being discussed:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?255840-Festool-Parent-(TTS)-Buying-Sawstop

Jim
Forum Moderator

[Martin Wasner]

Yes, if one considered these as being mediocre:

1) It is the best cabinet saw in safety (despite all the rumors and fabricated stories, no one has sued SS because its safety feature failed to work)

2) It has one of the best over-arm dust collection features

3) It has one of the best hydraulic mobile bases for a cabinet saw

4) It has one of the best saw fences for a cabinet saw

5) Its sawing quality is also one of the best among cabinet saws

6) Its assembly manual is one of the best for any machine, not just for tablesaws.

Oh, yes, it is a mediocre machine to those who do not or never own a SS.

Simon

It's mediocre to anyone who's ever used a quality tablesaw.

[Simon MacGowen]

It's mediocre to anyone who's ever used a quality tablesaw.

such as???

Apples to apples, a cabinet saw, please.

[Martin Wasner]

such as???

Apples to apples, a cabinet saw, please.

I'll take my #4 or type U over a Sawstop. Those are both cabinet saws, and over 50 years old. The Sawstop is on par with a 66 in my opinion. Not terrible, just not exceptional.

The T fence is pretty nice on the Sawstop, I'll give you that. I've kicked around buying a couple to replace some really beat up Biesemeyer fences.

[Simon MacGowen]

I'll take my #4 or type U over a Sawstop. Those are both cabinet saws, and over 50 years old. The Sawstop is on par with a 66 in my opinion. Not terrible, just not exceptional.

The T fence is pretty nice on the Sawstop, I'll give you that. I've kicked around buying a couple to replace some really beat up Biesemeyer fences.

I have listed point by point why the SS is not a mediocre cabinet saw and other than telling me how old they are, you have not provided one single bit of useful info. to support your assertion that they are better saws than the SS.

Can you do better? Quote me a review of the saws you named vs the SS. I have not seen one single bad review of the SS in any trade or woodworking journals, suggesting that it is a mediocre machine. Of course, I have heard people who have never even touched a SS say it is rubbish.

Show me where (assuming you have used the SS (assumption correct?)) the SS is mediocre please! The plastic push stick that comes with the saw?

Simon

[Martin Wasner]

I've used a sawstop, ever used a Northfield or Tannewitz? There really is no comparison in how smoothly and well they run.

[Darcy Warner]

These get so entertaining. Nothing special about a saw stop, other than the brake, compared to any other sheet metal based cabinet saw. Much better fences on many other saws. Moblie base point is moot, over arm dust collection is moot, there are tons of options out there an odds are you can find the same exact parts made for any other saw.

[Martin Wasner]

These get so entertaining.

I just like pushing the buttons.

You're right the list is pretty superficial.

Don't forget the manual Darcy! lol

[Simon MacGowen]

Everything is moot about a SS, of course, so moot that TTS is buying it out. Oh, Festool is all moot, too, just in case the Festool naysayers are reading.

Simon

[Darcy Warner]

The only thing special about a SS is the stop part.

[peter gagliardi]

The buyout is all about the money. Period.
I think I read that Mr. Gass's patent is due to run out sometime soon, so the days of getting high dollars for his tech are almost over- better for him to cash out before his return drops too low.
Festool's parent company understands that there is a desire for this technology. They can buy existing technology that has withstood some test of time regarding proof, and avoidance of lawsuits. Mr. Gass's company is on the downslide of the back of the bellcurve as far as worth.
The net here, is that there is still enough profit to be had in the future, and they enter the market on the ground and running.
When it comes to buyouts like this it is always, and only about the money.

[Simon MacGowen]

I've used a sawstop, ever used a Northfield or Tannewitz? There really is no comparison in how smoothly and well they run.

So? Where is the SS mediocre at? The mitre slot is off? The riving knife is bad? The vibration is horrible? The fence can't be set up properly? The dust collection is poor? The manual is printed in color you don't like? You don't think the zero clearance plate should be red? You don't like it to be an imported machine?

What is it?

I think I know the answer...you just don't like the SS.

Time to head to the shop and fire up the SS!

Simon

[Martin Wasner]

So? Where is the SS mediocre at? The mitre slot is off? The riving knife is bad? The vibration is horrible? The fence can't be set up properly? The dust collection is poor? The manual is printed in color you don't like? You don't think the zero clearance plate should be red? You don't like it to be an imported machine?

What is it?

I think I know the answer...you just don't like the SS.

Time to head to the shop and fire up the SS!

Simon

Something I tragically learned way too late in life. What you don't know, is what you don't know.
It's a cheap box full of cheap parts. Nothing wrong with that, just don't call it anything other than what it is. It's priced accordingly, for whatever that's worth.

[Mike Henderson]

Something I tragically learned way too late in life. What you don't know, is what you don't know.
It's a cheap box full of cheap parts. Nothing wrong with that, just don't call it anything other than what it is. It's priced accordingly, for whatever that's worth.

I wish it was priced cheap. But maybe we have different definitions of "cheap".

When I bought mine, I paid a premium compared to other table saws. And I've used it for quite a number of years now and it's performed quite well throughout that time, with no degradation that I can observe. If the parts were cheap, they were quality cheap parts.

So if the SawStop is "cheap" what does that make all the other competing table saws? Again, maybe we have different definitions, but I consider the SawStop to be a quality table saw. The flesh sensing technology is a bonus.

Mike

[Matt Day]

Martin and Darcy have a lot of experience with all saws, not just Delta and Grizzly and SS like most people here. Don't take offense, as said they're pushing buttons. The standard "my SS is the best" isnt really necessary.

[J.R. Rutter]

break tech

Built-in espresso machine? ;)

[Martin Wasner]

Martin and Darcy have a lot of experience with all saws, not just Delta and Grizzly and SS like most people here. Don't take offense, as said they're pushing buttons. The standard "my SS is the best" isnt really necessary.

Darcy has me beat by light years for knowledge on equipment. I only began my crusade for actual good tools a few years ago. There was a point when I thought there was no finer woodworking tool company than Powermatic. I was horribly mistaken.

[Prashun Patel]

Alright, alright. Cut it out. Both sides. If you have some insight about the deal per the thread title, please add. If you wish to debate Sawstop's quality, take it somewhere else. That debate never ends well here.

[Rob Damon]

Also, something to consider.

I have 8" Powermatic jointer that is well made but I would not ever say "best in class" and it should last for years.

But I would not put it in the same class as the 16" A.J.Faye and Egan jointer I have that was built in 1920, that is now going on 100 years old which should still be kicking 100 years from now. Not sure you can say that for the SS.

Many folks on here have what are classified as more "industrial" class machines, so comparing a commercial saw to and at true industrial saw and claiming "best in class" can raise a little chuckle.

There is no question SS is a good saw.

[Joe Jensen]

Does that mean Sawstop wasn't doing that well? Usually, very successful companies don't get sold.

The founder was the CEO and he must be approaching retirement age. Lots of investors too. I work in high tech and most successful startups sell to big companies and make the founders and early investors very rich.

[Thomas S Stockton]

Someone's gotta say it, that will be one giant systainer
Tom

[Malcolm McLeod]

Ich bin ein earschplittinloudenschtopper.

[Keith Hankins]

Someone's gotta say it, that will be one giant systainer
Tom

I wish we had a like button :)

[Martin Wasner]

Someone's gotta say it, that will be one giant systainer
Tom


I wish we had a like button :)


Me too. When you don't have anything to add, but wish to convey the post hasn't fallen on deaf ears.

[Jim Becker]

I wish we had a like button :)
Soon... ;) The forum software that we're moving to has that "native"...

[Phillip Gregory]

Soon... ;) The forum software that we're moving to has that "native"...

I sure hope that software isn't called "Facebook."

[Jim Becker]

I sure hope that software isn't called "Facebook."
LOL No, it's not. It's called XenForo.

[Rollie Meyers]

Anyone here know how time the SS patent(s) still has before expiring ? I'll never buy one but still a free country & people can make their own choices, I chose a 1973 vintage Unisaw. :)

[Alan Schaffter]

A good engineer/patent attorney can come up with an "update" that will qualify the Sawstop for a new patent(s)- good for another 20 years. Just wait and see.

[Mike Henderson]

A good engineer/patent attorney can come up with an "update" that will qualify the Sawstop for a new patent(s)- good for another 20 years. Just wait and see.

I think that's tough to do. If SawStop makes some improvements, they can get those patented but the work described in the original patents becomes public domain.

If it were possible to get an "updated" patent, Xerox would have done so when their patents were expiring. And Pharma companies would do the same. Pharma companies sometimes combine their drug with another and get a new patent, but the original, uncombined drug goes public domain (and usually generic).

Mike

[Alan Schaffter]

I think that's tough to do. If SawStop makes some improvements, they can get those patented but the work described in the original patents becomes public domain.

If it were possible to get an "updated" patent, Xerox would have done so when their patents were expiring. And Pharma companies would do the same. Pharma companies sometimes combine their drug with another and get a new patent, but the original, uncombined drug goes public domain (and usually generic).

Mike

The Sawstop has numerous patents covering different parts of the whole and not all filed at the same time. I think if you read them, you will see they have already done it, and more than once. By leapfrogging they keep the overall design covered by one or more patents. That makes it hard to design something similar, without infringing on at least one or more of the patents as Bosch has found.

[Albert Lee]

Someone's gotta say it, that will be one giant systainer
Tom

Where is the LIKE button!? lol