Debating to buy a router lift

[Bob Cooper]

Currently my router -- a Milwaukee-- sits in my table saw and it serves me pretty well but I think it's time to build a dedicated router table. So I'm wondering how convenient a lift would be. I bought the current router partly because of its above the table height adjustment but I found I never really used it. I'd just pop the router out and change the bits out of the table and I'd reach under to adjust it.

Is a router lift much different. I don't mind investing the 300-400 but I don't want to waste it.

For what hat it's worth the two lifts I'm thinking about are the incra and the woodpeckers.

Any insight is appreciated.

[Ellen Benkin]

I have had the Rockler lift for years and couldn't live without it.

[lowell holmes]

My saw table mounted router is height adjusted by setting close with the router base clamp. I fine adjust the
router by rotating it in the base. I can adjust the height infinitely. I don't do that much on it, so a lift is not required.
My router work is minimal, so I don't feel the need for a dedicated router.

Also, I have a shaper that I use when making doors, so my comments are probably not germane.

[Andy Giddings]

Yes a router lift is worth it - especially if you are trying to dial in small adjustments

[Ben Rivel]

Definitely worth it. Go with the Incra and get the Clean Sweep magnetic plate inserts, add to it the Rockler router dust box and a fence that has a dust collection port on it and hook it all to a good dust collector and youll wonder why you ever dealt with dust from your router table in the past!

[Evan Stewart]

Definitely worth it! I had my router base attached directly to the table a few years ago and until i got a lift i didn't even know how bad i needed one. I found it to be very difficult to exactly replicate moldings and trim before i had a lift.

Also just as a side note, i had a total disaster about 5 years ago with a porter cable router attached to a table with its base. I had either not completely closed the latch or it came undone and about 5 mins into milling some trim it came loose from the base. Holy crap it was one of the scariest things i have ever had happen. The bit completely chewed up the base and some stuff i had under it. I didnt use a router table again until i had a lift.

[Jerry Miner]

Bob--

I also have the Milwaukee router (5625). The "above the table" height adjustment is, IMHO, kinda bogus: you still have to reach under the table to lock in the adjustment. Not the same as a real lift.

I bit the bullet and mounted the router in a lift (mine is the Woodpecker's)--- VERY glad I did! One of the best investments in tools I ever made. Fine adjustments (to .001 precision if you want it) are quick and easy. Definitely worth it!!

Get a lift. You won't be sorry

[Jerry Miner]

i had a total disaster about 5 years ago with a porter cable router ... it came undone and ... completely chewed up the base and some stuff i had under it.....

I had a similar experience--- except the bit chewed up my leg on the way to the floor. Still have the scar as a reminder. I always make sure it is tight before starting the motor now.

[glenn bradley]

Like some other things, once you have one you will not want to be without one. My lift and what I can do with it are factored into my thought processes now.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I enjoy my router lift and table.

[Bob Cooper]

All thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty sure I'll pull the trigger. Seems like both companies I'm considering make very good quality tools. Is there a big difference between these two lifts? I'll likely buy a new router as well...maybe the triton 3HP.

This is getting $$ fast ;)

[John McClanahan]

Just make sure that the lift you are looking at and your router are compatible.

[Nick Decker]

Bob, I went through your decision process (Incra vs WP) about six months ago. The main thing that pushed me away from WP was the thumb wheel for fine adjustments. I never got a chance to try one in person, but some told me that it can be a bit hard on the thumb.

Went with the Incra (with a WP table and fence) and am very pleased. Absolutely nothing I would change about the set up, and that's rare for me.

[Andy Giddings]

Don't know if the Bench Dog lift is on the OP's list but there is another recent thread showing strong support from owners

[Ted Reischl]

I have an older JessEm lift. About 15 years old now? One thing I like is that the height adjustment is driven by a 1/4 hex. That means I can just chuck a bit in my drill backwards and presto, I have a motorized lift. This is very handy since the screw is 16 TPI and to raise the router to change bits is about an inch and a half of travel, then with a bit depending on a lot more it is a lot more travel. Speeds things way up.

The other thing I did was head over to the hardware store and get a couple of boxes, an outlet box and a switch box. I wired them up so I can turn the router on/off from the front of the table. Cost I am thinking maybe, maybe, $15. Ok, maybe a bit more since I sacrificed an extension cord.

My router table sits right next to the left wing of the table saw. When I am not using it I remove the fence (an old Incra Ultra) and use the table to pile lumber I am milling.

[Prashun Patel]

I cannot speak to the Woodpeckers.

The Incra lift is great for a couple reasons:

I chose it over the Jessem because at the time only the Incra insert rings were magnetic. These make them easy to snap in and snap out as you change bits.

Incra fences and lifts excel at micro adjustment. I like the above table bit changes, but I NEED the micro height adjustment.

The downside of my Incra (and I suspect this is user error - not the product) but I have a Milwaukee 5625 in the Incra Master Lift 2, and I find that the bit doesn't go low enough with taller bits like a spiral or straight bit. I made an auxiliary table to allow shallow passes; or you could just use a shorter bit...

Which fence are you considering?

[John Piwaron]

I cannot speak to the Woodpeckers.

The Incra lift is great for a couple reasons:

I chose it over the Jessem because at the time only the Incra insert rings were magnetic. These make them easy to snap in and snap out as you change bits.

Incra fences and lifts excel at micro adjustment. I like the above table bit changes, but I NEED the micro height adjustment.

The downside of my Incra (and I suspect this is user error - not the product) but I have a Milwaukee 5625 in the Incra Master Lift 2, and I find that the bit doesn't go low enough with taller bits like a spiral or straight bit. I made an auxiliary table to allow shallow passes; or you could just use a shorter bit...

Which fence are you considering?

I have the Incra lift too. I wouldn't want to go back to my old router table without it. Mine sits in what is essentially the NYW deluxe router table. I also have a micro adjust for the fence.

Regarding that Incra lift - it's actually the Jessem lift. I got it because I liked the lift mechanism and the plate was the same size as the Rockler plate. It could drop into my already existing router table.

[Eric Rimel]

I'll go ahead and comment on two issues:

First, I'm not a fan of router lifts. I've have them at work since they became commercially available and in all my years heavily using routers/router tables, I don't see THAT much difference. Personally, I have chosen to have multiple plunge routers and fixed base routers in shop made tables rather than tie up that much cash in one table. If I hit the lottery tomorrow, or space dictated that I could only have one router table (gasp....) I might change my mind.

Second, as someone who has purchased the BenchDog lifts since they first came out (for work), the current BenchDog lift is still first class. The current plastic inserts however are an absolute embarrassment to what used to be a first rate tool. Absolute junk. I would avoid the BenchDog lift, even though I really like the lift itself simply because the inserts are unusable. I have one insert that is 1/16" off of flat........and that's the good one.

[Tony Leonard]

To go a much less expensive route...I bought a Router Raizer many years ago. I use it with a Hitachi MV12. It works very well and was well worth the money. Just another option!

Tony

[Robert Engel]

Personally I never bought a router lift simply because I couldn't justify the money tied up in it. I guess if I used it everyday maybe...

FYI theTriton router has a quite satisfactory above table built in router lift.
Another plus you don't have to take the router out to change bits.

Then keep the Milwaukee for a spare hand router.

[Mike Hollingsworth]

Currently my router -- a Milwaukee-- sits in my table saw and it serves me pretty well

My $.02:
Since that's a pretty decent set up for you it will cost you more to feel the upgrade. Think PC 7518 or the like. And a Cast Iron Lift and Table.

[Prashun Patel]

Did you see this?

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?255836-Incra-Router-Lift-with-Magna-Plates-310-Shipped-Conus

[Jeff Ramsey]

I bought and use a Jessem Mast-r-lift II lift, and a Bench Dog cast iron extension for my Unisaw. I've been satisfied with both.

[Nick Decker]

I think where you would see the most benefit of a lift would be if you use your router table for joinery. Sneaking up on depth of cut is just so much more precise and secure. This was something I had to experience first hand to appreciate. I was thinking a router lift just made it easier to lift a router.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I have a Woodpecker PRL-V2 and find no problems using the thumb wheel. In fact, I find it handy and accurate. Woodpecker has a good reputation with standing behind their products too though it's not often necessary.

[Mike Heidrick]

Look for deals on V1 Woodpecker lifts.

[Randy Heinemann]

I have the Incra lift and think it's the top end f accurate and precise. The crank type height adjustment is extremely precise. I can usually dial it to almost exactly where I want it on the first try; second at worst. Plus, if after making the cuts, I decide I need just a hair more depth, I can do that easily.

If you are considering a router for the table, there are a lot of them that will work with the Incra lift. When I upgraded my table and bought the lift, I decided to buy the Porter Cable 7518 motor with the lift so that I would have a dedicated router for just the table. That motor installs with no adjustments to the lift as it is default for the PC 7518. It's difficult to install and uninstall a router that's mounted in the table if you want to use it handheld. The PC7518 has plenty of power for anything you would want to do.

When you build or buy a table, you should consider under table dust collection also. There are a variety of ways to do that, but Incra has the CleanSweep under table shroud which I have. Other companies have them also. If you're making your table, consider Rockler's under table unit. It is comparatively inexpensive and, based on reviews, seems to work well. Just need to make sure that it works with your table and router so that there is enough clearance under the table.

[Bob Cooper]

Fence...I haven't even thought much about it yet.

So one thing seems to come thru as I read these posts... seems that one of the big advantages of a lift is the ability to really fine tune the vertical position...which I can see would be super useful for joinery. What I'm spending 99% of my time doing is building cabinets for the house -- garage, workshop and frog. So dust control (more so than joinery today) and wanting to get the router out of my 50" table saw table is a big motivation. That and the mobility of a portable. My plan is to build the typical Norm A table. I'm so doing I was thinking it may get tough to pull the router out all the time to change bits...sitting out in the open under my tablesaw I had lots of room ...and thus dust.

The plate I have right now in my table saw is a phenolic woodpeckers and it works well but the rings are (reverse) threaded and I would imagine the magnetic version from Incra might be quicker to swap out...but that's really a nit.

Let me finish this so I can read this thread I see about festoon buying sawstop...I assume it's true as it's not 4/1

[julian abram]

You are definitely looking at the two best lifts on the market and cannot go wrong with either. I've had/have both. Sold the Woodpecker PRL-V2 recently and purchased the Incra. On the Woodpecker you have quicker/easier ability to raise the unit for bits changes. Also I did not find the thumb wheel difficult to use. The continuous crank handle on the Incra gives a little better control moving the unit up and down. Think I favor the Incra a hair better than the Woodpecker but like I said, can't go wrong with either. Ford vs Chevy

[H. Gregory Porter]

All thanks for the feedback. I'm pretty sure I'll pull the trigger. Seems like both companies I'm considering make very good quality tools. Is there a big difference between these two lifts? I'll likely buy a new router as well...maybe the triton 3HP.

This is getting $$ fast ;)

I had the triton 3hp. It quickly broke. They use cheap plastic gears for height adjust. Teeth stripped out. They went into bankruptcy. warranty was not honored. It was a couple of years before I could get a few replacement plastic gears. Had to buy another router (Milwaukee).

[Bob Cooper]

Thanks Greg. Well then it's either the PC or Milwaukee. I've been pretty happy with my smaller Milwaukee

[H. Gregory Porter]

I have the 5625 Milwaukee. I bought it at the suggestion of Mark at Incra tools. He said he has used many models of routers in his trade shows and demos. I seem to recall that the first time he used a Milwaukee was when a vendor provided one for his demo. I bought mine at his recommendation b/c it ran quieter and smoother (less vibration) than the others. It was noticeably smoother and than my PC's and my Dewalt. I would buy it again. Just my $0.02.

Oops. if this is hijacking, my apologies. To get on target,

Unless designs have changed, the lift mechanisms on the routers with "built-in lifts" are not as robust as the dedicated lift. I bought the Triton thinking it would save the cost of a lift. In just a few months I had to buy another prouder and a lift. Make sure you get a lift that will fit your router. The Milwaukee housing is slightly smaller than others. I had to get an Incra shim kit for it. I seem to recall that not every lift would accommodate it. Can't recall which ones would not work; that's been 7 or 8 years ago.

[Patrick Irish]

How easy is it removing the router from the Incra lift when needed for plunge work and then installing it back? I imagine I'll add a dedicated router to the incra lift at some point.

I have one router, I use the plunge router outside of my table and have the fixed base mounted in the table. The height adjustment on the bosch 1617 is not great when mounted upside down.

Almost pulled trigger on the Incra lift yesterday on Amazon, $340 shipped and arrives in 3 days. Sold by the time I decided to do it. Calling Incra tomorrow. Have a 10% off code and they will ship USPS if phoned in. Should be cheaper than UPS and faster.

[Randy Heinemann]

It's possible to remove and replace the router you have mounted in the Incra lift, but I wouldn't recommend it. After a few times removing and reinstalling the motor, I know I would find a way to buy a dedicated motor for the lift.

[Robert Engel]

Triton is not bankrupt. As to the quality, I would check the reviews you will see it highly rated in almost every one. I did quite a bit of due diligence before buying mine.

Maybe it's been redesigned but I've found the adjustment very smooth and quite adequate, but that may not suffice for some. BTW, if you forget to release the lock that is hard on any gear. ;-)

I just finished a cabinet project with raised panel doors. I was very pleased with the adjustment on the Triton. I found it to be accurate enough to give me perfect cope and stick joints. The power was amazing.

Changing bits without removing router is also a major feature for me.

For cabinetmaking etc it should be all you need. IMO save your money on a lift, buy the Triton, and you'll have a spare handheld which you need anyway.

[Peter Kuhlman]

I believe the Incra lifts are actually Woodpecker lifts but with a nicer magnetic insert plate system.

I have purchased 2 different Woodpecker lifts and had problems with both. First was the heavy duty version - PRL? It kept binding up when covered with dust. Sent it in and worked when returned but started binding very shortly after again. Sold it and got the version with the thumb wheel. It worked for a few months and now doesn't lift or lower. Not sure if other brands are any better. Using the big Porter Cable with it.

[Keith Hankins]

Currently my router -- a Milwaukee-- sits in my table saw and it serves me pretty well but I think it's time to build a dedicated router table. So I'm wondering how convenient a lift would be. I bought the current router partly because of its above the table height adjustment but I found I never really used it. I'd just pop the router out and change the bits out of the table and I'd reach under to adjust it.

Is a router lift much different. I don't mind investing the 300-400 but I don't want to waste it.

For what hat it's worth the two lifts I'm thinking about are the incra and the woodpeckers.

Any insight is appreciated.

I've been using the same lift (woodpecker PRL) since 2003, and would not think of not having it. I am also using the incra fence that is fantastic and adjustable to the thou. Next to TS most used tool in the shop. I'd build my own table.

https://flic.kr/s/aHsjY6e4rF

[Nick Decker]

I believe the Incra lifts are actually Woodpecker lifts but with a nicer magnetic insert plate system.

I have purchased 2 different Woodpecker lifts and had problems with both. First was the heavy duty version - PRL? It kept binding up when covered with dust. Sent it in and worked when returned but started binding very shortly after again. Sold it and got the version with the thumb wheel. It worked for a few months and now doesn't lift or lower. Not sure if other brands are any better. Using the big Porter Cable with it.

Peter,

Incra sells two different lifts, the MastRLift II (made by Jessem) and the PRL V2 (made by Woodpeckers). Mine is the MastRLift II, but your post is the first I've seen about dust/chips binding up either one of them. In my case, I imagine I would have seen the problem, as I don't (yet) have dust collection under the table.

[Peter Kuhlman]

Thanks. Mine was the original PRL with the chain drive that would bind up. They repaired it but it soon started getting harder to move. Sold it with full disclosure. Could have been a tolerance issue vs dust but they were known to have some issues. The wheeled version no longer reacts to the wheel. Have not tried to really investigate it yet as have been busy working on house. Will probably send it in then sell it as think I am done with their lifts.

[Patrick Irish]

I'm using the Bosch 1617 fixed base as my 'lift'. It's mounted in my table to an Incra gold plate. The fixed base allows for height adjustment when unlocked. It's very frustrating to have to unlock it thought, reaching under the cabinet. Also, when out of the table and dialed in for a height, once placed in the table and unlocked to, the bit will drop 1/8-1/4". The mechanism I don't think likes the weight of the motor and up and down isnt smooth.

I also have the Incra LS positioner system and used to their magnetic plate and inserts.

Think I may just go for it, ordering the Mast R lift II. I'm 35 and if it last 10+ years, that's only $35 a year for no worries and dead on accuracy right?? ;):D

[Nick Decker]

Patrick,

I used to use a Bosch 1617 in a table myself, and I know what you're saying. On the adjustment mechanism, there is a threaded rod that is secured with a flimsy circular spring washer (Circlip??). When the router is upside down, mounted in a table, that spring washer is bearing the weight of the router. After trying a Bandaid solution for a while, I finally gave up and bought the MastRLift II. Whole different world, and yes, dead on accuracy is dead on easy to dial in.

[Randy Heinemann]

Peter,

Incra sells two different lifts, the MastRLift II (made by Jessem) and the PRL V2 (made by Woodpeckers). Mine is the MastRLift II, but your post is the first I've seen about dust/chips binding up either one of them. In my case, I imagine I would have seen the problem, as I don't (yet) have dust collection under the table.

I have the MastRLift II and have not had problems with the lift binding. However, I have pulled the lift/router out and cleaned it off at least once since I bought it. I can't imagine any lift not accumulating some dust and chips. There is some lubrication on this lift and that alone attracts some sawdust. I love the precision of the MasterLift. It allows me to fine tune any depth setting to my satisfaction. It's a little more effort to wind the lift all the way up for changing bits, but the precision it allows is worth it.

[Brian Lefort]

Wodpeckers lift with Porter cable here. Love the setup.
Yes, the wheel is stiff, but in a good way. It reassures me that the setting will remain true. I use a dial indicator for height, and get it exactly where I want, with incredible repeatability.366266366267366268

[Ken Krawford]

It's not that difficult. Once you get it set up initially, there's just a single cap screw that you loosen to release the router. Easy - peasy.


How easy is it removing the router from the Incra lift when needed for plunge work and then installing it back? I imagine I'll add a dedicated router to the incra lift at some point.

I have one router, I use the plunge router outside of my table and have the fixed base mounted in the table. The height adjustment on the bosch 1617 is not great when mounted upside down.

Almost pulled trigger on the Incra lift yesterday on Amazon, $340 shipped and arrives in 3 days. Sold by the time I decided to do it. Calling Incra tomorrow. Have a 10% off code and they will ship USPS if phoned in. Should be cheaper than UPS and faster.

[Brian W Evans]

I spent more than you indicated you want to spend, but I don't regret a penny of it: Woodpecker V2 lift in a Benchdog cast iron table with a dedicated PC router (the big one) and a Woodpecker fence. The thumbwheel isn't an issue for me because, once you get used to it, the lift mechanism gets you pretty darn close. I understand the appeal of a crank to raise and lower the router, but the Woodpecker V2 system is so fast I don't see how it could be faster any other way. It's weird, but it works very well.

This setup is rock solid, keeps its settings all day, and is simply a joy. No fiddling or workarounds required - just set it and go. This was definitely a buy once, cry once situation, but now all I do is smile.

[Nick Decker]

It's not that difficult. Once you get it set up initially, there's just a single cap screw that you loosen to release the router. Easy - peasy.

Just to be clear, you need to pull the lift and router out of the table before releasing the router from the lift. You'll then likely need to re-level the whole apparatus when you put it back in. For me, not really easy-peasy.

[Ole Anderson]

Not much to add. I have an old Woodpeckers lift for my old Hitachi M12V and couldn't live without it.

[Ted Phillips]

Sorry for jumping in late. I had this same discussion a few years ago - and ended up buying a Triton router instead of a router lift. The Triton can be adjusted via a tabletop knob while mounted under the table. It is extremely easy to use and saves you quite a few bucks. You might want to look at that.

[Bill Berklich]

Sorry for jumping in late. I had this same discussion a few years ago - and ended up buying a Triton router instead of a router lift. The Triton can be adjusted via a tabletop knob while mounted under the table. It is extremely easy to use and saves you quite a few bucks. You might want to look at that.


I have a Triton also. Way cheaper than a lift. I figured by the time I buy a 2-3hp router, table, plate, lift, fence I'd be within $100 of a shaper with more capabilities so why bother. The Triton has worked great but I don't do production work. If I was I think I'd opt for the shaper and just be done with it.

[Jim Morgan]

For those who have or are contemplating getting a router lift that permits above-the-table bit changes: an offset router collet wrench (available from Woodcraft and elsewhere) can save a lot of cranking!

[Earl Rumans]

I tried the Triton in my table, trying to avoid a lift and was frustrated with it, I had it connected to a dust collector and it was a pain to change bits and turn it off an on, reaching under the table. I bit the bullet and went with the Incra Mast-R-Lift II, PC 7518 router, remote power switch and the full Incra Clean Sweep dust collection system. I haven't regretted spending the money on the setup and with the Wonder fence installed, there just aren't any dust problems. I use the Triton for hand plunge routing now and it's OK but the way the clear dust shield is installed it can get hard to see what you are doing, even with dust collection attached.

[Jim Dwight]

I built a router table similar to Norm's layout with a router lift based upon a design in an old American Woodworker article built in. It was around $100 for some machined steel rods, oilite bearings and other pieces. A piece of all thread with 16 thread per inch moves it up and down. I either hand crank it or use a nut driver in a drill. The top hinges up for bit changes. I've built several router tables but this is the last one for me. Works.

[Mark W Pugh]

Sorry for jumping in late. I had this same discussion a few years ago - and ended up buying a Triton router instead of a router lift. The Triton can be adjusted via a tabletop knob while mounted under the table. It is extremely easy to use and saves you quite a few bucks. You might want to look at that.

I have one also, and yes one can adjust it from the top of the table. However, the problem I, and others, have had is, during routing, the adjustment knob backs out. Meaning, when you unlock the router, it falls from the current setting. So, you really aren't starting from the same height/position you just had. One work-around is to tighten the adjustment knob underneath before unlocking router. Hence, I personally don't see the above adjustment feature a plus on my system.

[Doug Garson]

I built a router table similar to Norm's layout with a router lift based upon a design in an old American Woodworker article built in. It was around $100 for some machined steel rods, oilite bearings and other pieces. A piece of all thread with 16 thread per inch moves it up and down. I either hand crank it or use a nut driver in a drill. The top hinges up for bit changes. I've built several router tables but this is the last one for me. Works.
Interesting, 53 responses so far and only one shop made router lift recommendation. I also have a shop made one, mine is based on Steve Ramsey's Youtube video and is installed in a shop made router table built into my table saw. May not be as precise as some of the purchased ones but works for me. I can adjust height and change bits from above the table.