Treasure, uhhh rust, hunting bounty

[Matthew Hutchinson477]

I don't get to spend much time playing this game, generally due to lack of time and a lack of space for all the devices I might accumulate but I've been itching for a good bench vise for about a year now and finally gave in and decided to devote the proper garage space. After this experience I can certainly understand the appeal of yard/estate sale hunting. But I can also see the danger in accumulating vast amounts of random things. Basically the whole operation is largely a transfer of random rusty objects from one hoarder's garage to another. Then someday when you realize you have a whole barn full of things you don't have time for, you become the rust hunting site and the process comes around full circle. Kind of like the circle of life...but with rusty tools.

Anyway, here's what I found:
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As for my main target, bench vises, I walked away with not one but two! The little guy is an old Wilton. It's got a decent amount of rust and the guide rods will likely lose a little bit of metal in rust removal thus loosening the tolerances. But I bet it'll still make a fine user for me and it was cheap.

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The next one is the more exciting one. It's a W.C. Toles 10" with a genius quick-release mechanism. The guy I bought it from said it was his grandfathers so it's only had two or three owners, and is in good condition except for a little surface rust and the fact that grandpa went nuts one day and decided to beat the brass bench dog down into its hole. I did a quick google search on the company and found very little, but I believe this vise may be from before the turn of the 20th century which is pretty cool. I have no idea when I'll have a beefy enough bench to put it on but I'll definitely be hanging onto this one.

Other tools: A full Forstner bit set for $20. No maker marks anywhere on it so it may be a cheap set but it's still better than the Forstner bit set I had before (I didn't have any before). Some could probably be sharpened but that isn't a big deal.

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A couple nice layout devices. The try square has some significant rust on the blade that will certainly leave pitting when I clean it up but whatever. The bevel gauge, on the other hand, is in great condition by my standards with only a little surface rust. Even the finish is mostly in good condition, and it has the Sweetheart mark on top of that. Next to that, not entirely in the picture is a Buck Bros 1/4" chisel in decent condition. Didn't need one but it was too cheap to pass up.

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Then this thing...I have no idea what it is but I wanted to find out. The teeth are cut like a float, I think, but I couldn't find anything by searching woodworking floats on the internet.

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Huot drill bit set with most of the bits. There have been enough times in which I've needed an obscure, tiny drill bit size so this oughtta fit the bill. Most of the bits are in good shape and decently sharp. The ones that are missing I probably won't even need.

Also in the main picture up top is an EC Atkins saw set with zero rust. I don't think it'll go down enough to a fine enough set for dovetail, carcass, or tenon saws but it'll work for my panel saws that have been needing to be sharpened for about the last year.

Hope other people had a good weekend treasure hunting as well!

[steven c newman]

No wonder my Rust Hunting was so skimpy...it was all up your way....nice finds.

[Stew Denton]

Hey Steven,

Remember down here we only get what's left over from you, Matt, and Jim K., and those are slim pickens indeed.

Stew

[Matthew Hutchinson477]

I can concur on what Stew says at least to an extent. I grew up in Wichita, KS and the antique/high quality tool market in that area is just dismal. I didn't even try looking locally for most things--had to rely on the almighty internet and ebay almost entirely. After spending some time in New England I am a believer in the East-West Theory of Old Tools. I live in a rural area over here so I don't even get the best of it but the woodworking scene in general is much better over this way.

[Stew Denton]

Matthew,

I have lived in Wichita, and a couple of small towns near Wichita, as well as growing up in western Kansas, and believe it or not, the pickens there in central Kansas are much better than down here in the Texas panhandle.

Stew

[Rick Malakoff]

Guy's if you want slim pickins come to Southern California anything with rust commands a price and is considered old/antique!

[Rob Luter]

Here in the Midwest we do OK on rust hunts, but you guys out East have all the good stuff. It's funny how each region has its common items. In Northern Indiana you can't swing a dead cat without hitting all manner of timber framing tools. Mauls, Planes, Augers, Saws, Flat and Corner Slicks, etc. Not talking fine woodworking. All you need to build a barn except the timber. And build they did. In my neck of the woods, they built with what they had. There's a barn near me with framing that's built of solid Black Walnut. It's what was growing locally. It's around 150 years old and no sign of rot yet.

[Brian Henderson]

Guy's if you want slim pickins come to Southern California anything with rust commands a price and is considered old/antique!

That's because hardly anyone in California works with wood, which is a real shame. It's exceedingly rare when anything in the for sale section is within 1000 miles of me.

[Rick Malakoff]

I only have one Swap Meet and thats 20 miles one way and I go one day of each weekend and most of the times the pickins are pretty good Planes, braces and saws.
Squares, gauges, and chisels are few and far between, I buy what ever is out there within reason and I wont over pay because I'm not needing any thing that bad.
Most I ever I paid for a plane was 25$ Bailey/Stanley #6 probably last run they ever made and it was never sharpened.
That's why I go because you never know what you'll find.

[Jerry Olexa]

Nice haul..Good possibilities....Liked your philosophy in 1st post. Thanks

[Patrick Chase]

Huot drill bit set with most of the bits. There have been enough times in which I've needed an obscure, tiny drill bit size so this oughtta fit the bill. Most of the bits are in good shape and decently sharp. The ones that are missing I probably won't even need.

Total nitpick, but Huot doesn't make drill bits AFAIK. They do make nice indices for drill bits that other markers use, for example most Chicago-Latrobe bit sets come in a Huot index. Odds are that's a decent set of bits if somebody (the manufacturer or owner) bothered to put it in a Huot.

[Matthew Hutchinson477]

Total nitpick, but Huot doesn't make drill bits AFAIK. They do make nice indices for drill bits that other markers use, for example most Chicago-Latrobe bit sets come in a Huot index. Odds are that's a decent set of bits if somebody (the manufacturer or owner) bothered to put it in a Huot.

That's correct from what I read, Patrick. I couldn't find any sign of Huot actually making bits but I didn't do any reading until after that first post. I actually don't know what make the bits are but the case is only missing about 25% of them and the ones in there are all in good condition. I don't know if there's a way to tell what kind of steel they're made of but I can't imagine its anything other than high carbon or, if I got lucky, HSS.

[Stew Denton]

Matthew,

Sorry I contributed to some hijacking of the thread. However, back to the main point.

That is one mean looking big vise, and the precision tools and bits, etc. look very good. In short "ya did good!" That vise looks like it could do you good for a very long time.

Stew

[george wilson]

The float toothed tool is an auto body worker's float for hollow places. Really for cutting lead. Possibly Bondo. It won't do much good in wood,though,except to leave bodacious (:))chatter marks.

Nice vise,though. I'd drive that brass dog out. Possibly relieving the pressure in it by drilling holes as large as possible FIRST,lest you crack the rather thin cast iron around the hole. That hammered and tight peened brass is lucky it hasn't split the cast iron around the hole. HEED THESE WORDS!!! Then,make at least,a hard wood one. I'd use brass myself,but have the means.

I could offer to make you a dog,but I am getting ready to get my knees replaced,then TRY to help a museum silversmith with no home shop to make a pair of goblets. Who knows how long that will take? And,I'd need the vise to get accurate measurements from down to .001" to get a sliding fit.

[Mike Baker 2]

Not hijacking, but good luck with the knee surgery, George. I have a friend who had his done. Said it was the best thing he ever had done. Like a new man!. :D

[Jim Koepke]

I hope your knee replacement goes well George.

From all the folks I have known to have this done, including my wife, if possible have it done in two operations instead of all at once.

Of course if you are one who likes to get it all over that is your choice.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

That's correct from what I read, Patrick. I couldn't find any sign of Huot actually making bits but I didn't do any reading until after that first post. I actually don't know what make the bits are but the case is only missing about 25% of them and the ones in there are all in good condition. I don't know if there's a way to tell what kind of steel they're made of but I can't imagine its anything other than high carbon or, if I got lucky, HSS.

Just set your drill to its fastest speed, chuck up the biggest bit, and whale on some piece[s] of hard scrap until smoke pours out. If the bill still cuts after that then it's probably HSS. If not, well...

[in case it isn't obvious, that was not a remotely serious suggestion]

[Patrick Chase]

I could offer to make you a dog,but I am getting ready to get my knees replaced

Good luck!

[george wilson]

Thank you,Jim. They don't do them both at once any more. Too hard on the patient.

Drills are just about invariably stamped or at least etched on the shank with the size and "HSS". It is very likely that your drills are HSS,as I never heard of a remotely modern drill set that wasn't HSS. Of course,if they are Asian,everything goes. That includes only the most common sizes being hardened,such as 1/8,3/16,1/4. They ASSUME that the average homer owner will only use the common sizes. They may assume all they want! But,I will continue to taunt them a second,3rd,and 4th time!!!

[Matthew Hutchinson477]

The float toothed tool is an auto body worker's float for hollow places. Really for cutting lead. Possibly Bondo. It won't do much good in wood,though,except to leave bodacious (:))chatter marks.

Nice vise,though. I'd drive that brass dog out. Possibly relieving the pressure in it by drilling holes as large as possible FIRST,lest you crack the rather thin cast iron around the hole. That hammered and tight peened brass is lucky it hasn't split the cast iron around the hole. HEED THESE WORDS!!! Then,make at least,a hard wood one. I'd use brass myself,but have the means.

I could offer to make you a dog,but I am getting ready to get my knees replaced,then TRY to help a museum silversmith with no home shop to make a pair of goblets. Who knows how long that will take? And,I'd need the vise to get accurate measurements from down to .001" to get a sliding fit.


Good luck with the surgery and I wish you a speedy recovery--total knee replacements are no joke.

As for the vise dog...I'll probably be making one out of brass myself. I don't have much in the way of machining equipment but I have a generous friend with a good shop so between that and hand tools I can make one without too much trouble. I started another thread in the metalworking forum asking for advice on how to get that dog out. Long story short I tried to use a small pry bar initially but it wasn't going anywhere and I worry about breaking the cast iron housing. My next thought was to apply some heat but I don't know how that might affect or possibly damage the iron. So it looks like it'll have to be drilled out. Oh well.

[Jim Koepke]

I started another thread in the metalworking forum asking for advice on how to get that dog out. Long story short I tried to use a small pry bar initially but it wasn't going anywhere and I worry about breaking the cast iron housing.

Does the slotted screw in front of the brass dog hold the dog in place?

My first thought is to drill a hole in the dog and tap it for a long bolt. Then a piece of pipe with a washer if needed to use like a slide hammer to extract it. It would be easier to tell if the vise was here or I was there. As it is there is a whole continent between us.

jtk

[Matthew Hutchinson477]

Does the slotted screw in front of the brass dog hold the dog in place?

My first thought is to drill a hole in the dog and tap it for a long bolt. Then a piece of pipe with a washer if needed to use like a slide hammer to extract it. It would be easier to tell if the vise was here or I was there. As it is there is a whole continent between us.

jtk

The set screw came out easily but that thing is still stuck in there pretty well. What you described is basically my plan. The dog is partially hollow and there's a spring placed in the hole to push the dog up. So there isn't a ton of brass to drill through--an inch at the most. My only concern is that when the brass was hammered on it might have mushroomed out a little bit and conformed tightly to the inside of the iron case. If that's the case then pulling on a threaded bolt probably won't work and I'll have to do it the tedious way.

[Jim Koepke]

If that's the case then pulling on a threaded bolt probably won't work and I'll have to do it the tedious way.

That is why I suggested using a long bolt with a short piece of iron pipe. Instead of pulling, the pipe is rapidly slid up the shank of the bolt until it strikes the head with enough force to, hopefully, extract the brass dog.

jtk

[Matthew Hutchinson477]

That is why I suggested using a long bolt with a short piece of iron pipe. Instead of pulling, the pipe is rapidly slid up the shank of the bolt until it strikes the head with enough force to, hopefully, extract the brass dog.

jtk

I don't mean to question you-I'm just curious-but why would using something like a slide hammer be preferable to just yanking on the bolt?

[Patrick Chase]

I don't mean to question you-I'm just curious-but why would using something like a slide hammer be preferable to just yanking on the bolt?

Because you have to overcome static friction to get it to move, and that requires a lot of instantaneous force. You can apply vastly higher loads via impact vs yanking.

It's called "percussive maintenance", a.k.a. "beating on something until it's either fixed or irreparably broken".

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on what Patrick said. A good jolt tends to move many things better than a good tug.

Have the vise secured in some way. Stand on it or have it so you can be pulling downward on it. You don't want it flopping about.

You may want to spray or drip your favorite lubricant for unsticking things on the work.

jtk

[Pat Barry]

I don't think that you should take a torch to it in an effort to get it to release a bit because of heat. Brass, if thats what the dog is, expands significantly more than cast iron as a function of temperature. I think the previous ideas of drilling a hole in the middle, tapping the hole for a bolt, and then put a long bolt in the tapped hole. Put a big washer under the bolt head. You can probably just pull the bolt up with a bit of leverage (straight up though) putting pressure on the big washer, and the dog will come along obediently like a good dog will.