Is a gouge the right tool here?

[Frederick Skelly]

I'm trying to put a 1/8" radius on a leg detail for my butcher block. The detail goes al the way across the leg - a straight crosscut. This thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?255477-Butcher-block-build)shows the leg detail Im working on.

Ive been using rasps and sandpaper. Is a gouge a better tool for this work, if I ordered one with a small radius? Maybe a 4 mm #9?

Im not a carver, so I dont know much about gouges. I've heard Woodcraft has some swiss made that cut well.

Thank you!
Fred

[Jim Koepke]

I'm trying to put a 1/8" radius on a leg detail for my butcher block. The detail goes al the way across the leg - a straight crosscut. This thread (http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?255477-Butcher-block-build)shows the leg detail Im working on.

Ive been using rasps and sandpaper. Is a gouge a better tool for this work, if I ordered one with a small radius? Maybe a 4 mm #9?

Im not a carver, so I dont know much about gouges. I've heard Woodcraft has some swiss made that cut well.

Thank you!
Fred

I didn't see the detail in the other thread. In my experience, gouges tend to cut better with the radius edge down. If you want to cut a bead across the grain it may be better to knife the outside and then use a #3 sweep or even a skewed #2 gouge to shape it.

jtk

[Frederick Skelly]

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Sorry Jim. I should have been more clear. If you look at this pic carefully, you can see the groove Ive cut across the grain is rounded on one side. That's the detail I'm referring to.

I'll try the flatter gouge as you suggest. Thank you.
Fred

[Jim Koepke]

Rounding a corner across the grain is always a bit tricky. Currently one of my hollow molding planes would be sharpened to the hilt and given a try coming from both sides. A low angle block plane can also coax a corner into roundness.

Many ways to get the same effect.

jtk

[John Schtrumpf]

I'm with Jim on this. I would round over as much as possible with a block plain, and then finish with a very sharp hollow plane (I just happen to have the Asian ones from Lee Valley).

[Frederick Skelly]

I'm with Jim on this. I would round over as much as possible with a block plain, and then finish with a very sharp small hollow plane (I just happen to have the Asian ones from Lee Valley).

Thanks John. How do you like those Asian H&Rs? Ive been eyeballing them a long time but have heard they are decent but not up to LV's own in-house quality. How do you gind yours?

[John Schtrumpf]

Thanks John. How do you like those Asian H&Rs? Ive been eyeballing them a long time but have heard they are decent but not up to LV's own in-house quality. How do you gind yours?
They are not in the same class as Veritas, but for wooden planes they are okay, and work. They come already ground. I initially (before first use) sharpen the bevel with sandpaper wrapped around a dowel and the back flat on a stone. Then I hone them before every use with a dowel charged with honing compound on the bevel, and the back on my normal strop.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Fred, believe it or not the issue with using a gouge like a #9 bevel up, the edges of the gouge will tend to dig into the flat surfaces next to the round over detail. As Jim stated you be much better served with a flatter gouge like a #3 or # 5, they will lessen the chances of a dig in. Having said all that, a nice sharp block plane is a tool that I would use for your edge detail. If you really want to try carving the detail, a nice sharp bench (a #1) chisel would work as well as a new carving gouge..

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks John. Next time they have free shipping, I think I'll buy a couple of the small radius ones and see what I think.

[John K Jordan]

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Sorry Jim. I should have been more clear. If you look at this pic carefully, you can see the groove Ive cut across the grain is rounded on one side. That's the detail I'm referring to.


This may sound sloppy but I round end grain edges like that with sandpaper glued on a flat stick. I keep thin sticks with 80-400 cloth-backed grit, 1" and 2" wide, fastened with spray contact adhesive. They may not look machine cut but that doesn't bother me.

JKJ

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks Robert! Now I get it.

I'm not really "married" to carving this detail, but I got to wondering what the "right" tool for this job was. I thought it might be one of those tight radius gouges. But I have a #3 and I'll try both it and the LN block plane and see which works better for me.

Fred

[Frederick Skelly]

This may sound sloppy but I round end grain edges like that with sandpaper glued on a flat stick. I keep thin sticks with 80-400 cloth-backed grit, 1" and 2" wide, fastened with spray contact adhesive. They may not look machine cut but that doesn't bother me.

JKJ

John, you're sanding WITH the grain, correct? I hadnt thought about a 2" wide stick. I kept wishing I had a shorter/wider rasp. <head slap!> :(

[Warren Mickley]

I use a back bent gouge for this kind of thing. It takes some skill both to sharpen the gouge and to execute the cut. You want something in the #4 or 5 range, a #9 is too U shaped. You could also use a scribing gouge (incannel); this is the way we often cut the cross grain rounded chamfers on the end of a wooden plane.

If I were short of tools, I would rough it out with a chisel then smooth with a file. Skew the chisel and make some practice cuts.

[Jim Koepke]

Fred, believe it or not the issue with using a gouge like a #9 bevel up, the edges of the gouge will tend to dig into the flat surfaces next to the round over detail. As Jim stated you be much better served with a flatter gouge like a #3 or # 5, they will lessen the chances of a dig in.

Just for fun I rounded some end grain on a book shelf unit that is my current project. It was fairly easy with the flatter sweep gouges. As Robert said, the rounder sweeps have a tendency for their sides to hit and dig in in unwanted places. One solution for this is to have a wider gouge for the sweep.

If you do use a hollow plane, do half from one side and half from the other side to avoid blow outs.

jtk

[John K Jordan]

John, you're sanding WITH the grain, correct? I hadnt thought about a 2" wide stick. I kept wishing I had a shorter/wider rasp. <head slap!> :(

For your case I'd be basically sanding end grain to form the radius. (We sand end grain it all the time on the lathe.) Be careful not to go crazy and scar the side grain! I do save the last bit of rounding for going with the grain on the face.

The drill is:
- sand a 45-deg flat. The width/depth of that first flat is critical as it determines the minimum radius.
- sand narrower flats on either side at 1/2 the angle
- sand the peaks of off to form close to a arc and smooth to a nice arc with fine sandpaper
The whole thing is similar to the technique of turning successive flat spots to end up with a perfect sphere on the lathe.

I use Klingspor Gold sandpaper in 1" and 2" width rolls. The choice of 1" and 2" wide sticks was easy then. :)
I usually put one grit on each side so I don't have so many sticks to keep up with. I write the grit number right on the face of the sandpaper with a fat blue Sharpie. If the stick is thicker (I sometimes use scraps of 1/2' plywood) I also write the grit on the sides of the stick with arrows pointing to the correct surface.

362673

Oh, I often finish sand a radius like this with fine sandpaper stretched around a soft sanding block - a white Magic Rub eraser!

362675

The sanding sticks are perfect for lots of tasks. One thing I use them for is to put a 180-deg polished radius on the edges of these, to catch the light:

362674

JKJ

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks John!
Fred

[Jim Koepke]

This thread came to mind while working out in the shop. When using dowels to hold things together one end will be rounded over if it is going to show. A friend convinced me it is better to leave them proud so it looks like it was meant to be instead of having them flush and looking like a patch.

One of my ways of quickly rounding one end is to make a flute on a piece of scrap to hold a piece of sandpaper in the round hollow. Tried it out and it works to round over a square edge.

Before having planes to cut a flute my way of doing this was to drill a hole through a piece and then cut down the axis of the hole.

jtk

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks Jim!
Fred

[Jim Koepke]

Without pictures they say it didn't happen. So here is a picture:

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The piece on the right is alder. (actually both pieces are alder) The sandpaper holder is on the left. It has side flutes and the top is rounded to make it more comfortable in use rounding dowels.

On the alder 80 grit paper was used followed by 320 grit and then wiped with my furniture wax rag.

The holder is also handy for holding a soft piece of leather charged with green stropping compound to strop gouges.

jtk

[Frederick Skelly]

Thanks again Jim. Say, are you sanding with the grain, or across it with that tool? I could see using it either way, but I'm wondering whether if I would see any scratches if going across the grain? What do you think?

Fred

[Archie England]

My hand plane cuts always look better (after stain or paint is applied) than my sanding efforts (but that just be an indicator of how impatient and incompetent I am with sandpaper). For me, it's easier getting blades sharp to leave amazing surface finishes than it is to use sand paper to attempt the same degree of finish. Typically I don't see my mistakes until after I've applied the finish.

[Jim Koepke]

Thanks again Jim. Say, are you sanding with the grain, or across it with that tool? I could see using it either way, but I'm wondering whether if I would see any scratches if going across the grain? What do you think?

Fred

You are welcome Fred. Often when a question like this comes up it makes for some good cogitation and thought process while in the shop.

The piece in my picture was sanded across the grain. You might want to try it on a piece of scrap from the wood in your project to see how it comes out.

As Archie mentioned about the finishing, you may want to give it a bit of whatever stain and finish you will be using to see how it looks.

jtk

[Allen Jordan]

I also think a block plane and sanding will get you there.