Is it time i discard this customer? Would you?

[Bill Stearns]

HEY ALL:
I'm in need of advice ‘n opinions. For ‘bout eight years, I’ve engraved assorted products for an organization, which resells these logo-enhanced items. Not wanting to risk losing their fairly steady business, I’ve always charged extremely low prices, plus I’ve (stupidly) never charged a fee for unpacking ‘n repacking, often, hundreds of items. (A task that’s always been an enjoyable project for my child with special needs.)
Anyway, I recently engraved ‘bout 40 stainless tumblers for ‘em, using Cermark spray. Image appeared to be engraving fine. But, upon engraving ‘n washing ‘em all, I found that a very tiny, but important, portion of their logo failed to engrave properly - mysteriously rinsed off! - ruining those mugs! So, I voided my engraving charge for the complete batch, some of which were fine. Now, I find the guy wants me to pay his full item cost for those mugs that engraved poorly! - we’re talkin’ $184.00.


Most, if not all, of my other customers understand I can’t be responsible for their items, if an engraving error occurs. (I have a sign posted stating this policy.) - have never experienced a problem! Can almost hear you saying: depends upon how badly I want’ a keep this customer, right? Most these years, I’ve direly needed their business; not so crucial nowadays. So, here’s my thinking at present: this organization, over time, has saved hundreds, maybe thousands, of dollars given my sacrificial pricing ‘n free handling; not to mention their not having to pay S&H to some place else. (Which he’s threatening to do, if I don’t pay ‘em.)


Know it’d be far easier for him to write-off the loss, than me. (put ‘em on clearance, or give ‘em away?) Realizing, suddenly, I simply don’t like, nor trust, this customer! - ‘way he’s intimidated me all this time, insisting on unrealistically low pricing - never once appreciating my time ‘n efforts, even those times they’ve been in a bind. If I do pay ‘em their $184, no guarantee at all that I’ll retain their business. but, I do know it’ll gnaw at me forever!


Sound like it’s time I discard this customer? I'm thinkin' his demand is kinda petty, given their size v.s. mine. What’d you think? How would you treat a situation like this? (if its ever happened to you?) Eager to hear ...

Bill

[Brett Luna]

I've never been in the engraving business but I did run a service-based side business for few years. My experience was that setting your prices too low can (rightly or wrongly) send the signal that you undervalue your services. If customers think you don't value your work appropriately, chances are that at least some of them will think and act the same way. I started my business off at a competitive rate and sometimes discounted it to get the job. Those jobs rarely got me referrals or repeat business and I think those customers treated me differently. By the time I left the business, I charged more than my competitors, I booked more business than they did, I had a lot of repeat customers, and they generally treated me very well.

If it were me, I would consider paying the $184 as a last ditch, good will gesture to keep the customer...then...the next time he calls to place an order, give him the new and improved pricing schedule. If he doesn't think enough of your work to stay, he'll make the decision for you.

And how about adding an invoice line item for repacking? You could bank that for your expert repacker!

[Bert Kemp]

How bad is the 184 going to hurt you? I think given all you have done for them in the past and got no appreciation and if you think you really don't need their business anymore let them go.
I don't get many paying jobs but when I do I price pretty low. BUT I make an invoice out with line item price's so they know they got a great deal. I just got a job to engrave 10 4x4" mirrors for one of our PGR members when I told him what I'd do it for he told me he thought it would be more. I told him he gets the PGR discount. When I made the invoice it was 58% more then what I actually charged him. Ponit being let your customer know how good you have been to him what a a great discount he's been givin all this time.

[AL Ursich]

It's a Business and you have income and losses. For $184. I would pay it. IF they decide to get nasty and call in the Legal Buddies... The Loss in Time and Money will likely be much more... Like Barney Fife would say at a time like this.... Nip IT... Nip it in the Butt... Now....

I would reevaluate your price structure too.

I do my Business more for fun and I would pay it.

Good Luck.

AL

[Mike Hollingsworth]

I would give them the refund with a smile.
At least 25% more next time.

[Ian Stewart-Koster]

I always write extras on the invoice - then you have a choice whether to write delivery/packing/whatever as "no charge", but better is "$250"... or whatever then a bottom line "less donation $250"

Later the choice is yours whether you offer the discount, but they can't expect more jobs for a cheap price.
I especially do that if it's for an organisation.

Don't be afraid to 'sack' a customer. As for the $184 remedy - maybe he's just being difficult - but it sounds like he is a cheap headache to remove at that prescription price.
If he comes back with a subsequent job, you can build that $184 into the next undiscounted bill.

[Scott Shepherd]

I think you own those cups. It was your mistake. Mess 1 up, it's written off to an error. Mess 40 up and you made the mistake of not checking after the first one. I'd say you have a few choices. Take the cups back and get to sanding. You can salvage stainless tumblers. It does take time. If you do pay the money then he needs to give you the cups. They belong to you. Then you can sand them and resell them at a later date.

If it were me, I'd pay the $184, get the cups, apologize for the mistake, and I'd inform him of the new pricing shortly after it all cools down. Get your prices where they should have been all along and move forward.

I don't think a sign on the wall gives you license to not be liable for your work. I wouldn't give work to someone who could ruin my inventory with no compensation.

[Bill Stearns]

Thanks guys for your input! MORE DETAILS: two factors have dictated my (very low) engraving prices offered to this outfit. Many of the items they sell aren’t very expensive in the first place. (ex: a China, or Pakistanian, made knife for $9.95.) So, realistically, my engraving price has to be proportional to their retail price - regardless of the quantity I’m asked to engrave. (1 dozen or 100 of any given item) - in short, I can’t charge $5 to engrave a $10 item, right?)


Second. their end-customers don’t seem to place a perceived/added value on their products being branded with their logo; meaning, it’s not like this outfit can charge 20% more for their product’s branding. All of which has worked out okay for me over time (extra business), ‘till this situation occurred. Guess I simply feel I’ve saved ‘em hundreds (thousands?) over time, and that, in this one instance of their items not engraving properly, they should write-off the loss of ‘few mugs - ‘cause, “yes”, $184 means ‘lot to me! (plus, it’s the principle of the thing! - his intimidating me, his threatening me with the loss of future business irks me! In reading ‘couple of your relies, I will plan on creating a new pricing structure, which very well may include pricing for unpacking/re-packing. - and, as Brett mentioned - at that point, my customer can decide how valuable my services are! BTW: Anybody have Buyer's experience? - can't a unpacking/repacking charge be written off by them to a separate expense category? - so as not to effect their retail price of their items?

Catch you later, Bill

[John Lifer]

If you can afford it, pay it. But going forward, next time he bring something in, or wants quote, add 50% to what you would have charged him in the past. And if you need line item for handling, thing such as removing labels, charge it. At about $25 per hour. Which this should be paid for min wage worker plus profit. this probably isn't that much overall, but it is time you spend. If he balks, you've had to adjust your rates. And this you might need to do anyway. If he walks, then he walks!

[Bill George]

What Scott said, buy the cups, salvage what you can and adjust your rates. If he wants to go elsewhere, so be it.

[Mayo Pardo]

"in short, I can’t charge $5 to engrave a $10 item, right?"

Actually, yes you can. You can charge $15.00 to engrave a $10.00 item if you want.
Think about this for a minute.
If you bring a beat up old car to a car dealership to get the brakes done, do you think they're going to charge you less because your car is only worth $800.00 ? Not a chance. They get their hourly rate - and most charge "book time" regardless if they finish your job in less time. If the book says a brake job for your model car should take 3 hours and they finish it in an hour and a half, guess what? You pay for 3 hours.

My point is, being in a service business you decide what your hourly rate is based on all your costs of doing business plus a profit. You shouldn't adjust that just because someone brings in a cheap item to engrave.
It takes a given amount of time regardless if the item is a wooden pencil or a $6000.00 weapon. You're in business to be paid for your time.

If this is your main business then make it business like. If it's a hobby and you're just having fun and making a little money, then you have the ability to be more lenient.

If the customer comes back with another order after this, then estimate the time it takes you for packing and unpacking. Build this cost into your quote before you start the job. As far as the 40 stainless tumbles goes, buy them from him for his cost and ask to see the invoice he paid to verify how much he paid. Then when things get slow, refinish them and engrave them as samples for your own advertising purposes. Or just write it off on your taxes as a loss - part of your cost of doing business.

It's very easy to make incorrect assumptions about what a customer is willing or able to pay. And you can't model your business pricing based on those assumptions without considering your direct and indirect costs and how much profit you expect to make for your time working and for your future. I'm a perfect example of what not to do and my money situation today suffers because I rarely priced my work correctly in over 23 years as a sign shop owner.

[pete hagan]

Ditto... buy the mugs and apologize again. When (if) the next order walks through the door from this client charge what you should really be charging no matter who the client is.
$184 really is peanuts in the whole scheme of things. Integrity is gold!

[John Kleiber]

The answer is pretty simple.

Replace the cups - your the captain of the ship, its your mistake.
Stop using spray on Cermark - Buy bottle and dilute according to directions and apply with a foam brush, you'll save money over time.

Run your customers graphic and test to ensure a sound mark early on with the first cup. View it in various lighting including outdoors to ensure overall darkness and sharpness of lines. Wipe the cup down well to ensure proper adhesion. Compare a screen image to the actual laser mark to ensure all components of the graphic are included. Spot check at regular intervals as you go.

Deliver the product with a smile.

Lastly, and this takes the most time regarding your pricing structure, Boil the Frog.

Slowly and methodically increase your pricing just like the old boiling the frog parable.

If the customer values you, they will stick with you. If not, its their decision to leave and not your decision to fire them.

So what to do with the 184.00 worth of cups?

Depending if they are salvageable, clean them up and offer them as thank you gifts for volume good customers with their name or initials.

Or, simply use them as testers to ensure a sound start prior to your run so the issue will not happen again.


-John

[John Noell]

"So, realistically, my engraving price has to be proportional to their retail price." NO!!!!!NO!!!!!NO!!!!! Realistically (as in you want to stay in business), you need to charge enough to cover your time, the cost of the machine time, the rest of your overhead (lights, rent, etc.) and maybe add a bit for profit. Otherwise, it is simply a donation to their organization. I think it best to make the donation part explicit.

[paul cottingham]

If it was me, I would pay him for the mugs, and part company. He clearly doesn't value your time, and that is one of your main products. I could see him coming back a and expecting a discount "cause of how the last time went." We ran into this regularly when I owned my networking company. When we doubled our rates (we were way undervaluing ourselves) people stopped being buttheads to us. And our business doubled. In a year.

[Allan Dozier]

Sounds like most of us agree you are responsible and should pay for replacement costs for the mugs. It's the right thing to do regardless of how your pricing structure was. But then send out emails to all customers with your new fees for work and packaging. Make it like it is across the board not just aimed at this customer. If you kinda want to get his goat then give him a "special rate" just slightly below what the going rate would be from other engravers. Then he would have some decisions.

I know nothing about engraving but I do know about service businesses. Funny thing but I have done work for some people at discounted rates and even completely donated services. And if things happen to not go just right they often forget how nice and generous you were and cause just as much difficulty.

[Mike Null]

First rule of engraving: price your work to make you happy! If that's not good enough, so be it!

Your mistake and why did you continue to make it. Pay for the cups. Stop using spray and use a foam brush.

Depending on the size of the logo, you can fairly easily, remove the cermark with 3M 240 grit wet/dry sandpaper. I just ran 48 yetis yesterday with 2 bad marks. It took me about 10 minutes each to refinish the cup and re-apply the cermark. It is undetectable. I have a couple more from other jobs that I need to fix but the logos are large enough that I deemed them to be too large to fix.

In all cases, the fault was mine--bad application or not secured in the rotary device.

This entire problem is your fault, going back to your original pricing strategy.

[David Linnabary]

I'd write the check immediately no questions asked. To answer your question, yes it's well worth $184 to be rid of this customer if that's your choice.

Now, you can think of it this way, your customer has just put a price tag on how they values your services. They are willing to loose your services for $184. Don't take it personally. Look at it as a blessing that you know now before it came to a much larger project, a bargain if you will. Continue to be grateful for the business they sent you during the earlier years and do small stuff for them if you choose or not. You don't owe each other anything really but you know not to trust them and that is a valuable thing.

I would be ready to refer them to one or two other engravers.

David

[Bill Stearns]

Thanks guys for all your helpful advice.
It’s tough, sometimes, my making the right decisions; running this business by myself ‘n all; ‘thousand other things on my mind! Guess I felt that my refunding the full engraving price of all 43 mugs seemed sufficient. (23 of which engraved fine; 23 ruined).


Can see, now, where I should go ‘head and reimburse their cost of the 23 unusable mugs.($184). - or, ‘least, apply this as a discount to future projects, if ‘n when? (which I think would be acceptable to this guy.) But, only, as you all suggested, he gives me those mugs to own.


Think I was letting my emotions get in the way of making the proper decision, as I didn’t care one bit for this guy’s confrontational way of addressing this issue; his threatening tone via e-mail. It’s quite clear to me, now, that this guy, this outfit, doesn’t at all appreciate, or value, the time ‘n efforts that go into handling their jobs - nor, value my not charging for unpacking/re-packing ‘n all. So, while I’ll probably pay ‘em - simply for my integrity’s sake - afterwards, I may tell ‘em to find another engraving shop! (My knowing the one he will most likely use will be charging him for shipping to ‘n from!)


Other thing I’ve learned from your replies: not to allow customers - nor selling price of their items - to dictate what I charge for engraving jobs! And, not to allow customers to take advantage of my good nature without their ‘least “paying” for it! Also, that my cleaning the cups, first, may have made a difference? (what with? denatured alcohol?) Losing this account may, indeed, hurt a bit - but, ‘least my self-esteem would stay in tack! Will try ‘n let you know how it all turns out!

Have 'great Day! - Bill

[Bill George]

Oh so he has got usable product, then screw the entire buy back. Let him pay for the ones that are done right.... perhaps adjusting the price a little higher and just buy back the ones that are bad. Do you still have the mugs or does he? Yes I always at least use DNA before coating.

[Neville Stewart]

Im on the Pay back, Ditch Him Train. If he benefited from your good nature all this time only to turn on you when you had a problem, then my reaction would be to invite him over to my shop so I could give him a real Irish telling off that left him with no confusion as to what I thought. PS Mayo Pardo's analogy of the Old Car is absolutely perfect. If somebody wants to make a silk purse out a pigs ear, thats none of your business : )

[Tim Bateson]

Do you have a photo to share of the "defect"?

[AL Ursich]

I make FRP tags for Firemen called Accountability Tags. A few years ago I saw that epoxies etc had a new thicker epoxy for doming. I got a sample and loved it.. Did some testing and all was well. Bought a Gallon and switched from the standard I had been using for 5 years. About 8 months later about the time Sandy the Hurricane was washing up the East Coast in late October 2012, I started getting phone calls... As the tags were exposed to colder weather they started warping.... Every single one.... Even some in my shop with the heat off due to the power being out... The Gallon was just about empty....

I did every single tag over... Took some time but I did not think twice about it.... When I first posted about it, one of our Members said I missed my easy out... Just tell them it is my new "Parabolic, Anti Glare tags"... No extra charge.... LOL...

[Gary Hair]

My business coach told me this - every company makes mistakes, the difference between a bad company and a great company is how they handle them.


I make FRP tags for Firemen called Accountability Tags. A few years ago I saw that epoxies etc had a new thicker epoxy for doming. I got a sample and loved it.. Did some testing and all was well. Bought a Gallon and switched from the standard I had been using for 5 years. About 8 months later about the time Sandy the Hurricane was washing up the East Coast in late October 2012, I started getting phone calls... As the tags were exposed to colder weather they started warping.... Every single one.... Even some in my shop with the heat off due to the power being out... The Gallon was just about empty....

I did every single tag over... Took some time but I did not think twice about it.... When I first posted about it, one of our Members said I missed my easy out... Just tell them it is my new "Parabolic, Anti Glare tags"... No extra charge.... LOL...

[Frederick Skelly]

You really should give him $184. It seems like you should have caught this after 1 or 2 cups. I'd also tell him keep the cups. (If you tell him you want them and he says no, now you're gonna be mad all over again. Why give him another chance to bully you?) Make this right and bring it to an end. Then, raise your rates to a proper level. If he comes by again, thank him and decline his business if it still bothers you.

[Bert Kemp]

NO I thoroughly disagree with giving him the cups. If I'm going to pay him for them I'm going to own them. Simple as that. From the sounds of this guy he'd probably sand them himself then get somebody else to engrave . NO NO pay and get the cups




You really should give him $184. It seems like you should have caught this after 1 or 2 cups. I'd also tell him keep the cups. (If you tell him you want them and he says no, now you're gonna be mad all over again. Why give him another chance to bully you?) Make this right and bring it to an end. Then, raise your rates to a proper level. If he comes by again, thank him and decline his business if it still bothers you.

[Bill Stearns]

IN ANSWER TO ‘COUPLE OF YOUR REPLIES: 43 stainless mugs were engraved - 20 successfully. And, yes, I did hand-wash and check a few of the first ones, as I always do. Watching over the project, it sure seemed they were all engraving fine. But, as I said, upon hand-washing a very tiny (and I do mean “tiny”) portion of their logo rinsed off on 23 of ‘em. (I will, thanks to one suggestion, be sure to wipe stainless items down with DNA ‘fore engraving with Cermark in the future - may’ve made a difference?)


Sorry, Tim, I can’t show a photo, as the image/logo would identify the outfit I’m referring to, and I shouldn’t. Also: per one suggestion, I ran to Home Depot ‘n bought 3M/240 grit sandpaper- well, actually 220 grit all that was available.Tried it. Seemed to work ok removing the Cermark - but, 23 mugs? don’t have the stamina, or time.


So, anyway, I am, at this point - thanks to your wisdom ‘n advice - planning to pay him his $184 whole/sale loss of his mugs. ‘Though I’ll also be adding back in my charge for successfully engraving those 20 mugs, which I had voided. Only question remaining in my mind: how to react to what I considered his personally offensive and threatening way of handling this issue - ‘n his obvious lack of care ‘n appreciation for all I’ve done for this outfit over the years. (i.e. meeting their often unrealistic deadlines.) As somebody mentioned earlier, it’d almost be worth $184 to tell this customer how I really feel!


As for the sense of my pricing so low for this outfit? - my engraving prices have worked out satisfactorily, profit versus engraving time wise - as many of their items are small ‘n don’t take long. It’s been the unpacking/re-packing hundreds of items that’s resulted in far less profitability, if not flat out ‘no profit’. So,that’s gonna change, as it should’ve ‘long time ago! If I lose their business, life goes on ... right?


Will be discussing all this with the guy after Thursday; will try ‘n let you all know how it turns out. Good Night All - Bill

[Kev Williams]

Devils advocate--- sorta...

My thoughts on this are along these lines: We own a mobile home that we're renting to some friends for $100 plus lot fees. Yet every time a faucet drips or the toilet doesn't flush, they expect ME to stop what I'm doing, buy new stuff and replace it. I just flat tell them, how can I afford to pay to replace the stuff you're wearing out at $100 a month? Start paying me $800 a month and I'll GLADLY fix anything that goes wrong! Otherwise, take part of the money I'm saving you and buy a new faucet and toilet, and... I'll install them...

------Am I out of line? We ARE friends, and when it's all said and done, they see my point...AND, I'm sharing the burden...

This situation with these cups is very similar. Guy's been getting deep discounts for years, but no such discount is offered on the cups...?

I'd give this customer 2 options:

1- Offer to pay half the price of the cups (or some other percentage you feel fair), and continue doing business at your discounted rates,
-or-
2- Pay the full price for the cups, and kindly state prices are going up closer to 'average market' levels in order to help offset such costs in the future...

I agree that the cups should be paid for, HOWEVER, after years of discounted pricing, there's no reason this customer can't share the burden (and risk) and take less for the cups...

[Clark Pace]

Ha ha. Watching the andygriffith show as i read this

[Rodne Gold]

The co you dealt with did NOT set the price , YOU did .. they were your lifeline when things were tough and now you messed up a few mugs (your mistake) and you want them to eat the cost your mistake and you justify this whole dogs breakfast in terms of the customer didnt appreciate your work and low pricing YOU set
A situation of YOUR making. You are the expert .. you messed up , you owe the guy $184 , refusing to pay and firing the customer is NOT good business.
Take your medicine like a man!!!!

[Bill George]

Let him pay the agreed price on the ones that are done correctly and as I said earlier pay for and get back the damaged ones. I see your way up north in Minnesota and its my guess your the only laser business within at least a 100 miles, set your prices to make a fair profit for your time and expenses

[Bill Stearns]

RODNEY. Boy! what’ a chewing out you give me! (Take my medicine? Not good business? Man Up?) - sorry; pushed the wrong button; this may be a double-post?


Please, keep in mind: Initially, I was simply asking for advice ‘n opinions as to whether, or not, I should reemburse the customer his wholesale price of those 23 mugs that mis-engraved - $148. (BTW: This situation has never happened to me ‘fore. Guess I’ve been under the impression, these years, that most engraving shops have a “no responsibily/liablilty” practice.) Most ‘n best guidance I received said “yes” - Pay-up! (‘Guess I probably knew the answer ‘fore I asked.) Think I’ve made it clear, in my follow-up replies, that I am planning to pay this cost.


Rodney. You’re right of course, I’m the one who set the (low) pricing structure for this outfit; have allowed it to continue. I am the one who buckled on price ‘cause of their intimidating me; always threatening to take their engraving elsewhere.- ‘cause, yes, back then, I direly needed their business! (not so much, nowadays.) As I’ve said: What troubles me more was the unfriendly ‘n confrontational way in which this guy addressed this issue, via e-mail. (Hurt feelings ‘n ego are involved: Have always felt we had a closer, friendlier, business relationship than guess we do.)


Let me know, if this makes sense ‘n sounds fair: At this point: I have e-mailed him to say: I will pay his “cost” of mis-engraved mugs, as long as I can add back in the price of my successfully engraving those other 20 mugs, and, as long as he returns those 23 mugs to me to own. (I’ve learned from this ‘thread’ it is possible to sand-off Cermark, ‘though with ‘lot of effort. - hopefully, will be able to re-coop my loss?) And, right, or wrong, I did add to my e-mail a comment reminding him I’ve saved his outfit hundreds/thousands of dollars over time - my low pricing - my “free” unpacking/re-packing service, my lack of “rush charges” ‘n such.


No matter how this shakes out, his approach has irrevocably altered my feelings ‘bout him,and ‘bout how I’ll do business, if any, with this outfit in the future. (Will be increasing my over-all pricing; am planning to charge a fee for unpacking/re-packing: something, I believe, he’ll be able to write-off as a different expense, unrelated to item cost of goods. ?? - anybody know for sure?)


Will try to keep you all posted as to the outcome. Oh, and Rodney ... you have ‘nice day! - Bill

[Bert Kemp]

Since your pricing was in effect before all this started I don't think it would be fair to charge him more for what you have already done. Pay for the bad mugs and get them back.He pays the original agreed upon per mug price for the good mugs he has received . All future business will be at fair market price rates.

[Bill Stearns]

BERT -
I certainly didn’t mean to imply I was going to try to increase my price for those mugs I had already worked on, already invoiced - the 20 that had turned out fine.
Meant to say: I’m planning to raise my prices ‘bit on any future business he may, or may not, do with me. And, to charge, in the future, ‘least some sort of unpacking/re-packing fee - ‘cause that does often take ‘lot of time. - time I’ve simply written off as value-added; helping to guarantee my retaining this customer. Or, so I thought, ‘till now.


One thing I’ve learned from you all: I need to seriously rethink pricing my engraving based upon the retail selling price of a customer’s items; rookie of me! (The earlier mentioned “an old car having brake work done” analogy was perfect; has helped to wake me up; worth re-reading!)


Fact they want their items logo-branded - that their end-customers don’t see this as an added value worth paying more for - shouldn’t have been influencing my price for engraving! ‘least, not to the extent that it has. More I think ‘bout it: his cost for “branding” could, or should, perhaps be coming out of a different line expense, and not associated with his cost-of-goods. - maybe, treated as an advertising, or marketing, expense? Anybody have experience with this idea?
So, what I’ve learned is: even needing business, never again to allow any outfit to “bully” me into under-pricing, under-valuing, my services! In this case, I didn’t gain their respect, nor appreciation; in fact ... just the opposite! I’ll l learn, later this week, how this all pans out! (Thanks ‘gain for all the wonderful input!) - Bill

[Dave Sheldrake]

Rule #1 of business involving the internet

NEVER post customer info that *could* be identified if the customer reads it. If your customer reads this thread (it's google searchable) he's going to be telling all his mates and it will cost you a lot more than $184

Rule #2, "Work is undertaken at customers risk" will lose you a LOT of business and is very likely unenforceable in pretty much any country including the US

Rule #3, It's either a hobby or a business,decide on which and price accordingly

[John Noell]

+1 for Dave's post. Especially #3.

[Bill Stearns]

DAVE
I do appreciate your thoughts (warning?) ‘bout my so openly explaining my situation on-line, on SMC. May be wrong, but believe I went out’ a my way not to identify the particular company I’ve been referring to? And, wasn’t all that concerned that someone might. (Fact that I’ll be refunding his cost-of-goods should put the fire out!) And, just ‘tween you ‘n me, I don’t cringe at the thought of losing their business, as I once did!


Plus, don’t think I’ve said anything in this thread that I wouldn’t honestly say directly to this individual and, still may. And, wouldn’t much care if he somehow happened to read it.
What?
- my asking your opinions of my “no liability” practice?- ‘bout the right, or wrong, sense of it? (Keep in mind, in 10 years, or more, I’ve never run into a situation like this; simply caught me off-guard!)
- my expressing my “hurt feelings” ‘bout the way this guy’s handled his (reembursement) demands.
- ‘bout it being clearer to me, now, how this outfit hasn’t valued my special pricing ‘n services?
- that you’ve all helped me see that I shouldn’t be pricing based upon a company’s (item) selling price?


Really didn’t mean to make a mountain out of a mole-hill! I’ve learned 'lot from you all! Lastly, for now: some ‘long the way have questioned whether mine is a business, or a “hobby”? My applying a discount pricing strategy, for a long-standing customer, may not have been smart, but it hardly means that this is a ‘hobby’ for me! Just so you know! You’ve all helped me see that I need to re-evaluate my pricing methods, ‘n ‘way I deal with certain companies. I thank you all for this! - Catch you later. - Bill

[Jeff Body]

Bill

Fact they want their items logo-branded - that their end-customers don’t see this as an added value worth paying more for - shouldn’t have been influencing my price for engraving! ‘least, not to the extent that it has. More I think ‘bout it: his cost for “branding” could, or should, perhaps be coming out of a different line expense, and not associated with his cost-of-goods. - maybe, treated as an advertising, or marketing, expense?

I've seen you mention it a few times how the customer should or could justify, expense, or categorize your cost. Frankly it's non of your concern how the customer runs their business and figures their cost.
You have 1 job to do and that's to engrave what they want and charge a fair asking price for your work. How the customer handles their cost is their problem.



That's just my advice.

[Dave Sheldrake]

Bill, best advice I can give anybody about business :) it's never personal, feelings are for your private life not your professional life ;)