Laguna 3HP Dust collection set up

[Alex Gauthier]

Hey all,

After messing around with various not good enough dust collection systems that still barely deal with my dewalt planer and not much else, I've scored a brand new (used a handful of times only) Laguna 3HP DC for $1200 ($1800 new) with various bits of flex hose and fittings.

My shop is more of a garage about 25x25'. There is a wide garage door, a normal entry door and no windows. The attic is empty. There is a small concrete pad on one side where a 2nd exterior door was never added.

I'm now having to re-arrange my entire shop but I need to do so with dust collection in mind. Of the many ways I could do this, here's what I have so far. Please comment and let me know if my assumptions are well placed.

Scenario 1 (easiest)- Run 6" metal duct along ceiling to DC in one corner of the room, vent into room. I assume this will be very noisy and unpleasant while it runs but then, I'll be running a noisy tool at the same time so who cares? I figure I don't need to worry about replacing air in the shop this way though.

Scenario 2 (moderate)- As above but run ductwork through the attic which is empty. Only advantage would be avoiding cluttering the ceiling with duct work.

Scenario 3 (hard)- Build a little closet off the building over that small concrete pad I mentioned above. I'd have to penetrate the exterior wall, re-route some electric and come up with some design of handling airflow from that closet to return it to the shop.

I should mention this is an un-heated space but it is insulated so it's relatively pleasant in both winter and summer provided we are in a heat wave or a cold spell. Eventually, I'll be adding heat to it though.

I guess what I'm mainly trying to decide is just how awful it will be listening to the DC when I have to run it and if the value of locating it out the main room will be a big enough advantage to do all the work.

[David Gutierrez]

I have been struggling with the exact issue for my new shop. My situation is a bit different but I have decided to build a small closet outside of my shop to reduce the noise. The return air will be thru vents/openings connecting the closet to the shop. The openings will have a short plenum behind them lined with acoustical material and one 90 degree bend. I am running my duct exposed due to my lack of confidence that I will get the tool arrangement right on the first try thus expecting to modify it. Exposed will be easier to modify over time.

[Alex Gauthier]

You make a great point there, actually. Odds are good that I'll want to move tools around down the line and I would end up with a major pain in my butt having to re-plumb all that ducting. So that part is decided at least.


I have been struggling with the exact issue for my new shop. My situation is a bit different but I have decided to build a small closet outside of my shop to reduce the noise. The return air will be thru vents/openings connecting the closet to the shop. The openings will have a short plenum behind them lined with acoustical material and one 90 degree bend. I am running my duct exposed due to my lack of confidence that I will get the tool arrangement right on the first try thus expecting to modify it. Exposed will be easier to modify over time.

[Andy Giddings]

Most DCs are noisy, but not generally as noisy as a table saw as you point out. Put the cans on and use scenario 1. Scenario 2 is not going to change the noise level (just looks neater) and scenario 3 sounds like a lot of work with the disadvantage of providing make up air sometime in the future. In some cases, venting directly outside (if an option) can significantly reduce the noise level. You might also want to consider SDR pipe instead of steel - worked out cheaper for me, slightly larger ID, smoother bore and was a lot easier to install.

[Carl Kona]

Alex,

I would agree with what Andy and David have mentioned. A couple of comments or questions; do you have neighbors close enough that they will be annoyed by your DC outside and what is this closet going to look like? I have seen walk in closets that have conditioned air to extended overhangs (nothing more). My concern is too small of an enclosed space on a hot to very hot day and your closet becomes an oven heating up the motor before it is turned on. Just some thoughts.

Hope this helps.

Let us know what you end up doing.

Carl

[andy bessette]

...Run 6" metal duct...

Sounds way small. Isn't 8" more like it? That's what my 3hp Dust Gorilla looks like it wants.

[Larry Frank]

The question of 8" VS 6" duct is an interesting one.

I have a 5 hp Dust Gorilla. I tested it with 8" pipe straight run of 8 feet and measured about 1650 cfm. For my shop, I elected to go with 6" PVC due to space and costs. I have a couple of 90 degree bends, 6 feet of straight pipe and then a Wye where I measured the flow and got 1360 cfm.

While I did see about a 300 cfm reduction going from 8 to 6 inch, I still have adequate flow for very good dust collection.

[Jim Becker]

Larry, did you consider 8" metal for that first 6' and then transition to 6" PVC at the wye? 'Just curious...

[Andy Giddings]

The advice given out by ClearVue for a 5HP DC was 8 inch duct for multiple machines running at the same time, otherwise 6 inch is enough.

[Joe Jensen]

The advice given out by ClearVue for a 5HP DC was 8 inch duct for multiple machines running at the same time, otherwise 6 inch is enough.

Absolutely correct advice. Too many people see commercial shops with huge ducts and think bigger is better.

[Jacques Gagnon]

Alex:

As mentioned by others, scenario 1 which you might want to adapt as per suggestions received.

My son has a shop of similar size to yours; mine is smaller (14 x 20). We both have ClearVue 5hp cyclones, installed and vented inside the shop. His unit is installed directly on the wall; mine is in an insulated closet. My work environment is quieter than his, but his is not overly noisy - so, your assumption about noise is correct. Although I notice the additional heat generated by the motor in the summer time, it becomes a bonus in winter - so for me venting inside is adequate.

As mentioned by Andy, I have used 6" PVC pipe (not glued, just sealed with caulking - I should have used metallic tape maybe) with blast gates and a short run of 6" or 4" flexible connecting to each machine. Fairly easy to install and not overly expensive. The piping runs on the ceiling of the garage. My son is temporarily just using on 6" flex hose connected to a "switch box" (plywood box with blast gates to choose which machine is being serviced) until he finalizes his shop layout. A bit more clumsy but very good performance.

Hope this helps!

[Wade Lippman]

Maybe I am missing the point, but you will always have hearing protection on for whatever tool you are using, so why does the cyclone noise matter?

[Alex Gauthier]

I do in general but often not if I am just making cuts at my TS which is t very loud. I Could do a better job of wearing protection in general though

discussion of ducting has uncovered a question. I was planning to use metal because I assumed t would be easier t ground for static discharge. Am I mistaken on that count?

in summer I usually work with the garage door open so the additional heat venting inside won't bother me much I hope. This combined with other advice appeals to my lazy nature. Looks like I can get away with not building an outdoor enclosure for my D.C.!




Maybe I am missing the point, but you will always have hearing protection on for whatever tool you are using, so why does the cyclone noise matter?

[Andy Giddings]

Alex, there are plenty of threads here and info elsewhere about the static myth related to PVC duct. There's no need to ground it and I can stand right beside mine when the DC is running and no static discharge (does make the hairs on my arms stand up though :-))

[Jim Andrew]

If you live in a moderate climate, venting outside with no filter is great. When you have a overhead door, even with weatherstripping, the door will leak enough for make up air. Mostly because the door is inside the building, if it were outside the weatherstrip would seal much better.

[Alex Gauthier]

Resurrecting this thread now that I've done some more research in other threads here;

Here's my plan at this point (I think) What do YOU think?


Installing DC near garage door because that'll be the shortest run to my highest dust producing machines. This will also allow me to easily vent outdoors if I decide to go that way.
8" inlet on the DC means I can go with 8" pipe. I plan to run 8" all the way to a short section of flex hose for each machine. Where possible, I'll upsize the port on machines.
I'm going to attempt to put the blast gates at the connection to the main line. My thought is to use some kind of little pole to easily manipulate the gates. Will this annoy me?
Metal pipe, Nordfab QD style. I've decided that it's likely I'll be moving stuff around as I settle on a good layout and this style of pipe seems to be the easiest to maintain and relocate. Since I only need to connect the TS, floor sweep and router to start with, the cost will hopefully be bearable. From what I've gathered, I'll end up just using a shopvac still for my tools with smaller dust ports (miter saw, ROS, etc.)


Am I on the right track with keeping as much 8" ducting as possible?



Alex, there are plenty of threads here and info elsewhere about the static myth related to PVC duct. There's no need to ground it and I can stand right beside mine when the DC is running and no static discharge (does make the hairs on my arms stand up though :-))

[andy bessette]

...My thought is to use some kind of little pole to easily manipulate the gates...

Sorry, but this simply makes no sense.

[Andy Giddings]

Unless you are going to operate multiple machines at the same time, 8 inch is overkill IMO, especially on a 3HP. Even though you have 8 inch inlet there are plenty of us operating larger DCs with 6 inch duct and no issues. Your choice but I think you'll pay a significant upcharge for 8 vs 6 quick connect.

Having gates within arms reach is ideal. Depending on how many gates you have, reaching for a little pole every time you want to change over is going to get old

[Alex Gauthier]

I was basing the 8" ducting off the writing of Bill Pentz in regard to the removal of fine particles. Am I over-complicating things?



Unless you are going to operate multiple machines at the same time, 8 inch is overkill IMO, especially on a 3HP. Even though you have 8 inch inlet there are plenty of us operating larger DCs with 6 inch duct and no issues. Your choice but I think you'll pay a significant upcharge for 8 vs 6 quick connect.

Having gates within arms reach is ideal. Depending on how many gates you have, reaching for a little pole every time you want to change over is going to get old

[andy bessette]

If your dust collector inlet is 8" I would not make the main duct 6". Stick with the 8".

[Andy Giddings]

I was basing the 8" ducting off the writing of Bill Pentz in regard to the removal of fine particles. Am I over-complicating things?
Alex, I'm just pointing out that you don't need 8 inch if you are using one machine at a time and want to keep your duct costs down. Not sure why Laguna felt it necessary to put an 8 inch port on a 3HP machine as most are either 6 or 7 (Oneida, ClearVue). Maybe it was so they could put the 3x4" coupling on the front?

[Larry Frank]

I think 6" will give more than enough flow to handle one machine at a time. With 6" you can get probably around 900-1000 cfm. I get almost 700 cfm with 6" PVC and 4" flex hose into my cabinet saw. Yes, a 8" pipe may give you a little more but is it worth the cost. The cost of pipe and fittings goes up quickly with size.

I would hold off enlarging any machine ports. With your DC, I think 4" ports will work fine. I use the 4" ports on my planer and cabinet saw and it collects almost all of the dust and chips. Yes, a larger port is theoretically better but do you really need it.

[andy bessette]

...Not sure why Laguna felt it necessary to put an 8 inch port on a 3HP machine as most are either 6 or 7 (Oneida, ClearVue)...

My 3 hp Oneida cyclone has an 8" port.

[Andy Giddings]

My 3 hp Oneida cyclone has an 8" port.
I'm sure it does, Andy - everything on their website in the 3HP range is now 7 for some reason

[Mike Heidrick]

Id suggest read Sandor Nagyszalanczy's Woodshop Dust Control book and or Air Handlings pdf on sizing dust control. You need to do some layout and math in order to size this right. You dont want to run the risk of leaving dust piles in your duckwork.

[John Lanciani]

I'm sure it does, Andy - everything on their website in the 3HP range is now 7 for some reason

lots of money to be made selling ductwork if you recommend a size that is hard for the average hobbiest to source locally. My 3hp Oneida V3000 runs just fine using 6" pvc. I've posted my (properly) measured results here in the past.

[Bill Dufour]

My Murphy Rogers 2Hp DC has a 5" intake port. I could only find 5" PVC in expensive conduit so I made a taper adapter to 6" PVC.
Bill D.

[Jacques Gagnon]

... but could be done using a small handle / button and steel cable (similar to a brake cable setup on a bicycle).

Jacques

[Bob Latourelle]

I have the same dust collector and it works very well for my shop. My set up is for a 836 sf shop. The dust collector is in an attached 12 x 24 unheated shed. I ran 8 inch from the inlet for 15 feet to a Y and split into 2 6 inch lines to the machines and then to a 4 inch with a blast gate at each machine. My make up air in the winter heating season is to simply crack open the door to the shed. I leave 2 blast gates open ( 1 on each of the 6 inch runs ) to machines all the time. I can also open a third gate to another machine and it works fine. I run the collector almost continiously during the day in my 1 man pro shop. It is nice to have the noise in a seperate room and the make up air is just recirculated air from the shop. I used metal HVAC 26 ga. pipe and taped the joints. the duct pipe for the 6 and 8 inch including fittings and reducers for the 4 inch cost about $300 total. It has been a very good system for multiple machines at a reasonable cost. I think you will really like this dust collector.

[Alex Gauthier]

That's good to know. I just got the new 220 circuit in for it. Next going to purchase duct. Looking at costs, in my case there is only about $100 between PVC and Snaploc but I'll probably go with the PVC for ease of working with it. I'll have to cobble together a few parts I imagine but after the help of an engineer woodworking friend, I'm going with 6" mains and drops, reducing as necessary at tools.

One interesting tip he gave me was to not even worry about using the dust collection on my Bosch miter saw (he has the same one) and just build a big dust hood behind it with a 6" outlet. Has anyone compared results of using only a dust hood on a miter saw and using both the outlet for the saw and a dust hood? It would seem to me that doing it that way could spew a lot of fine particles around.



I have the same dust collector and it works very well for my shop. My set up is for a 836 sf shop. The dust collector is in an attached 12 x 24 unheated shed. I ran 8 inch from the inlet for 15 feet to a Y and split into 2 6 inch lines to the machines and then to a 4 inch with a blast gate at each machine. My make up air in the winter heating season is to simply crack open the door to the shed. I leave 2 blast gates open ( 1 on each of the 6 inch runs ) to machines all the time. I can also open a third gate to another machine and it works fine. I run the collector almost continiously during the day in my 1 man pro shop. It is nice to have the noise in a seperate room and the make up air is just recirculated air from the shop. I used metal HVAC 26 ga. pipe and taped the joints. the duct pipe for the 6 and 8 inch including fittings and reducers for the 4 inch cost about $300 total. It has been a very good system for multiple machines at a reasonable cost. I think you will really like this dust collector.

[Bob Latourelle]

My DeWalt 10 inch sliding miter saw is much better on dust collection when the saw outlet is tied in as well as a hood behind the saw that is also ducted