Has anyone used the British Bow Saw from HighlandWoodworking?

[Kurt Owens]

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/british-bow-saw.aspx

I am contemplating getting either this one or the one from TFWW. I know the TFWW bow saw is good, but has anyone used this one?

[lowell holmes]

I made one from the TFWW kit. It was a successful effort,except I made it from curly maple and then broke one of the legs. The replacement leg is oak. It has not broke again.

It is a fun project.

[Kurt Owens]

I made one from the TFWW kit. It was a successful effort,except I made it from curly maple and then broke one of the legs. The replacement leg is oak. It has not broke again.

It is a fun project.

I would like to make one, but it would be a good year until I could get to it :/

[James Waldron]

http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/british-bow-saw.aspx

I am contemplating getting either this one or the one from TFWW. I know the TFWW bow saw is good, but has anyone used this one?

A major difference: the Highland saw blade is 3/8 wide while the TFWW blade is 1/8 wide. That makes for a substantial difference in the minimum radius you can cut. It also likely makes a good bit of difference in the ability of the blade to stand up to "rough usage."

Both blades are 12 inches long. Since both offer replacement blades, you could probably buy one of each blade and use the one most appropriate to your work. You might have to fiddle a bit if the ends are configured differently. A quick peek on-line may be sufficient to tell if the ends are the same or different.

I think both would not be very consistent at straight line cuts because of the narrow blades. I've not seen a 12 inch long blade with a nice (1-2 inches) width. Dovetails may be challenging with these saws, for example. That's one reason many folks call these "turning saws."

[lowell holmes]

You can make blades of any width from band saw blades. The bow saw is an honest tool and is useful for more than just turning. I really enjoy having it hanging from my saw rack, along with the Disston D7, D8, D10 . . . .

[Ted Reischl]

You could build one like this:

362262

362263

This is my personal saw, I built five others like it. Some from walnut, some from mahogany. This is patterned after a saw that appears in the Art of Fine Tools.

I found that musky fishing line works great with a little wax on it. Also, note the winding stick is captured so that if you lose your grip it does not fly out and stab you in the eye.

That "british" saw is probably made in India. They do not worry about things like being sued for building something that can injure the user.

If you do buy one without a captured winder, modify it, cause sooner or later it will launch.

Oh yea, the one in the picture is cherry.

[lowell holmes]

Showoff:) That is impressive.

[Kurt Owens]

That "british" saw is probably made in India. They do not worry about things like being sued for building something that can injure the user.



I don't really care where it was made as long as it is of good quality :). What do you see about the British one that could injure you? (Compared to the other one)

[Ted Reischl]

I don't really care where it was made as long as it is of good quality :). What do you see about the British one that could injure you? (Compared to the other one)

As I stated in my earlier post, there is nothing to contain the winding paddle once you move it away from the cross beam. It is very easy to lose control of it, since the strings provide the tension the paddle does a fast turn or two and then launches as the string loses its grip on the winding paddle.

Trust me, I know what I am talking about after building over 20 of these saws. The good ones use a "boat" (that is the little wooden thing in between the strings shaped like a, well, boat) and then the paddle has small bits of wood at either end to trap the paddle in the boat so it cannot fly out.

If I were you, and I am not, I would get the tricky parts from TFWW, mainly the brass shafts that hold the blade and anything else you would have problems fabricating. The shafts TFWW uses are nice. Notice that they allow you to slide the blade in rather than have to fiddle around aligning two holes to push a pin through. Nice touch, that. Take a look at his 54.95 kit of parts, two brass shafts, the knobs and three blades. The rest of the saw is simple parts easily cut on a bandsaw. And YOU would control the quality.

The other thing, for a hundred bucks the fit and finish on that "british design" bowsaw sucks. Look at all the corners, they are not rounded. It is a cheaply made saw.

No matter what you do, modify the winding stick so it cannot fly out and hit you in the face.

[Kees Heiden]

Bowsaws with simple toggles have been in use for thousands of years. I think you are the first to give a warning that these toggles could be dangerous.

I always get a bit cheesy feeling from all the safety warnings nowadays. It looks like we have forgotten how to take reasonable care when handling potentially dangerous things. And I don't tink an ounce of wood flying around the air is dangerous. It may hurt, but that is not immediately dangerous. If something hurts, that's a good lesson.

[Ted Reischl]

Bowsaws with simple toggles have been in use for thousands of years. I think you are the first to give a warning that these toggles could be dangerous.

I always get a bit cheesy feeling from all the safety warnings nowadays. It looks like we have forgotten how to take reasonable care when handling potentially dangerous things. And I don't tink an ounce of wood flying around the air is dangerous. It may hurt, but that is not immediately dangerous. If something hurts, that's a good lesson.

Nope, I am not the first. Sorry. I did not dream up the idea of the boat or the adding of small bits of wood on what you call the "toggle".

I am not crazy about all the safety warnings flying around these days myself.

You may not "think" that an "ounce" of wood flying in the air is dangerous, right up until that "ounce" of wood doing about 50 MPH hits you in the eye. Of course, with your attitude, it will just be a good "lesson" in your book. Yanno, that is the attitude that prevailed for many years, dumb people get their fingers cut off, dumb people lose an eye, dumb people. . .blah, blah, blah. There were LOTS of dumb people around when I grew up in farming country. Missing fingers, legs, eyes etc. I see a lot less of that these days. Maybe it is because most people decided folks with attitudes like yours are just plain wrong? Send your kid or grandkid out bike riding without a helmet, heck if he falls and cracks his skull, he will have learned a "lesson".

Kees, I am talking from experience. Those "toggles" very easily get out of control with one little slip, and they really fly, fast. Your suggestion that people should be just be careful is ridiculous when all they have to do is glue a couple of small bits on the end of a stick to prevent the problem.

Oh yea, you wrote "Bowsaws with simple toggles have been in use for thousands of years".

Got any data on how many folks lost eyes over those years? Of course you don't, neither to I. But then, if I am the only to lose an eye, it is a big deal to me.

[Kees Heiden]

I think that the chance you will loose your eye from this is too small to even consider. And with due care when tensioning the saw, nothing flies around at all. (And I have experience too). That's my point, be carefull when handling stuff. But don't call everything "dangerous".

My view on what is dangerous and what not might be skewed though.

[Ted Reischl]

I think

Uh huh.

So, you "think" that adding a couple of small pieces of wood to a toggle is not worthwhile. You would rather just "be careful". That is some amazing "thinking".

Question for you? Do you wear your seatbelt? Does your car have a steel dashboard like the old ones? People "thought" that seat belts were not necessary for years, after all, all they had to do was "be careful".

Have you sent your kids out bike riding without a helmet yet? All you have to really do is tell them to "be careful".

What a load of horse manure!

[Graham Haydon]

Ted, stay safe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlPo9p0lzPw lots of risks in the shop, not just bow saw toggles. Lovely saw btw

[Kees Heiden]

Like I said, my view might be skewed, being a motorcycle rider, mountain climber, randonee skier...

And yes my daughter biked outside without a helmet, like everyone overhere. And the number of head injuries is not increased, despite bicycles being one of our main transport options.

I think in the workshop wearing glasses with safety glas is a better idea. It is not just bowsaw toggles that can get in your eye.

[Graham Haydon]

Also, if you sand by hand, make sure you wear a well fitting mask to at least a P3 level. After research in our shop, we found that hand sanding was was worse for exposure than extracted power sanding. Make sure you don't try and wear one while sporting facial hair, the hair renders them close to useless.

Also, make sure you vac the floor in the shop with an appropriate filter in place, not sweep. Sweeping creates many issues.

I don't deny your tip has real merit, however I hope you are as informed in all areas of woodworking safety. Just being a rude zealot about bow saw toggles may leave you open to other hazards.

[James Pallas]

Reminds me of that song from the "Monk" TV show. "It's a jungle out there, danger and confusion everywhere".
Jim

[Ted Reischl]

And the number of head injuries is not increased

Of course, it has not gone down either.

I always wear safety glasses in the shop since I cannot see what I am doing without them. However, when I made my first saws I brought one into the house. Did NOT have my glasses on, was fiddling around unwinding it, and sure enough, LAUNCH!

I said to myself "Self, THAT is why that guy put those little steps on the end of that stick!" DUH.

I am still trying to figure out why someone would argue that gluing a couple little pieces to a stick to prevent it from becoming airborn is such an issue? Is there a shortage of sticks or glue in the Netherlands? Maybe you could cut up an old wooden shoe and go barefoot, after all, that is what folks did for thousands of years!

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Ted,

Your bow saw is beautiful. I also appreciate your safety advise on securing the toggle. If my desire turns to making a bow saw, I will definitely make sure the toggle can't become airborne.

jtk

[Ted Reischl]

Howdy Ted,

Your bow saw is beautiful. I also appreciate your safety advise on securing the toggle. If my desire turns to making a bow saw, I will definitely make sure the toggle can't become airborne.

jtk

Thanks Jim, it was just one of those things I had to try! Heck, I had never carved anything in my life, but like a lot of us guys I had the tools!!!!

As I mentioned earlier, the hardest part of making one is those brass shafts. If I were to make more, I would just buy those parts from TFWW. The rest is actually fun.

Oh, and fishing line, like musky stuff is great. If you wax your stings they will have more of a memory so if your winder gets out of the strings the strings will not just flop all over the place. Easier to put back together!

[John Schtrumpf]

I did an informal test with my Flinn-Garlick Turning Saw. 3 times: I tensioned my blade by winding it up, then slid the stick so it was bisected by the string, and then let go. Results were it flew: 1 ft / 2 ft / 1 ft, and then dropped to the floor. The interesting thing is the 2 ft occurred when the stick left downwards, hitting the spreader.

I can't comment on how well the saw works, as I haven't used it yet. In looking at pictures of the TFWW Turning Saw, I would say mine appears less refined.

[Ted Reischl]

Just being a rude zealot about bow saw toggles may leave you open to other hazards.

Rude? Since when is it "rude" to let others know that there is a potential to get hurt?

Rude is when you tell people that getting hurt is a great way to learn a "lesson".

Zealot? Hardly.

[Ted Reischl]

I just did a test with mine. First test it flew 12.5 feet. Second: 11.25.

My saw has a very nice finish, slick and smooth. Also, the strings are waxed. That is probably the difference. If the strings and wood are more or less rough, it would slow it all down. Something to think about, maybe just make sure the winder is not finished and the strings are furry.

I pulled the boat and winder out of mine and put in a slick winding stick. But I did not change out the strings to do the "test".

Thanks for posting that! Something to consider, but then, I like the boats and my normal winder cannot fly anywhere.

[Patrick Chase]

I made one from the TFWW kit. It was a successful effort,except I made it from curly maple and then broke one of the legs. The replacement leg is oak. It has not broke again.

It is a fun project.

The Highland one looks like a cost-reduced clone of the TFWW kit. I've never used the Highland one, but I've played with the TFWW saw and it's awesome.

[Graham Haydon]

Ted, I value your tip. I would not of thought of doing it myself. Perhaps I will apply it to mine. On the rude side of things, perhaps because I like reading, your use of punctuation and use of words were rather over the top. That's why I posted to Norm's video, a true gent.

There was a person, I think, on this forum who jabbed themselves in the gut with a mortise chisel (let's hope I didn't make that up). Woodworking is a risky thing to do. The easiest thing to do is to follow Norm's example, as with the case of the errand mortise chisel, things can go wrong quickly, bow saw toggles are clearly one of them.

Tell me, when using abrasives, do you take adequate care of yourself? I have often thought of mentioning the risk of hand sanding on a forum but have not decided to do so. Wood dust is carcinogenic, will you make sure you are taking appropriate steps?

[Patrick Chase]

Bowsaws with simple toggles have been in use for thousands of years. I think you are the first to give a warning that these toggles could be dangerous.

In general loose bits of stuff in rapidly rotating assemblies are hazardous (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Air_Lines_Flight_1288#/media/File:Delta_Airlines_Flight_1288_Engine_Failure.jpg ), though the key word here is "rapidly".

In this case I suspect that it depends on how "springy" the cord is. Energy ~= force times distance, so a springy cord that has to be wound through a longer distance to get the desired amount of retaining force will hold more energy, all else being equal.

Ted says that he's using fishing line, and it appears to be braided which increases its springiness. To make matters worse he suggests waxing it, which will reduce any friction losses when it lets go. I therefore suspect that he did witness what he says he did, but also that it was mostly self-inflicted.

So either don't use fishing line (or rubber bands) or do what Ted says and retain the toggle.

[Patrick Chase]

I just did a test with mine. First test it flew 12.5 feet. Second: 11.25.

My saw has a very nice finish, slick and smooth. Also, the strings are waxed. That is probably the difference. If the strings and wood are more or less rough, it would slow it all down. Something to think about, maybe just make sure the winder is not finished and the strings are furry.

I pulled the boat and winder out of mine and put in a slick winding stick. But I did not change out the strings to do the "test".

Thanks for posting that! Something to consider, but then, I like the boats and my normal winder cannot fly anywhere.

As noted in another message, the bigger issue here is your choice of cord. You've basically created yourself a highly optimized toggle launcher.

[Patrick Chase]

Also, if you sand by hand, make sure you wear a well fitting mask to at least a P3 level. After research in our shop, we found that hand sanding was was worse for exposure than extracted power sanding. Make sure you don't try and wear one while sporting facial hair, the hair renders them close to useless.

Also, make sure you vac the floor in the shop with an appropriate filter in place, not sweep. Sweeping creates many issues.

I don't deny your tip has real merit, however I hope you are as informed in all areas of woodworking safety. Just being a rude zealot about bow saw toggles may leave you open to other hazards.

I don't think it's fair to call him "rude". I think that his setup is peculiarly hazardous for reasons that he didn't fully understand, and he incorrectly generalized that to everybody. Everybody makes mistakes like that now and then.

[Patrick Chase]

Sorry to keep replying, but I'm an engineer and I can't resist trying to solve an obvious mechanical problem.

Another obvious way to prevent the toggle from flying out is to balance it, i.e. make it so the cord passes through its center of mass. I can think of a few ways to do that without making the toggle stick up too far.

[Graham Haydon]

True, Patrick. I feel the "toggle flew from the cord" once he was questioned. If my comment caused offence, then I'm sorry it came over that way. You're observation on the reasons for the speedy ejection seem sensible. As there were few saws "back in the day" that were used with synthetic, waxed, high tension fishing line with what I'm assuming are highly polished toggles, possibly gives merit to Kees' point.

[Kees Heiden]

The reason why the TFWW bowsaw has such a simple toggle is to keep the centre of gravity as close to the sawplate as possible. That and because I think that the danger involved is negligable (in contrast with safetybelts or sanding of wood for example) makes me hesitant to change anything about my bowsaw. Which uses twine btw.