Pro question, door related.

[Larry Edgerton]

Last year I built all new screen doors for a condo project, 32 in all, and out of the 32 I had to make 3 new because of warpage. So I got a call from the developer to do the next phase. These are inswing screen doors, made out of poplar.

My idea is that on the latch style inlaying a 3/4" piece of aluminum in a laminated style. If the style warps, all I will have to do is lay it down and step on the middle of the curve. I did a test piece with a couple of pieces of wood that I knew would warp and stepping on it straightened it out and it stayed there. I figured out the cost, cheaper than making new doors if I get the same rate of failure.

Just wondering if you can think of any reason not to do it that I am not thinking of?

Thanks, Larry

[Martin Wasner]

People abuse and the owners bending them?

[Bradley Gray]

I think that sounds like a great idea!

[Robert Engel]

3 out of 32 wood screen doors warping is not that bad but if you think its worth not having to go back, I would say its a good idea.

I just don't know if its a long term fix or not. Seems like warping wood will overcome the aluminum.

Vs. if one warps, plow a deep groove in the stile, spline it and use epoxy while clamping flat. Learned that from Charles Neil. I don't think it would take that long to do it.

[Wayne Lomman]

Are you limited to poplar? If not, perhaps use a more stable timber. The Aluminium lamination sounds like a fair bit of work. Cheers

[Mel Fulks]

Pretty clever, and I see no reason why screen doors should not have a chiropractor.

[Martin Wasner]

What about laminating them up? Pain in the rear if you don't have a way to clamp everything up efficiently.

I'm guessing here. I'm a cabinet guy, if you want me to build a door you can walk through, it's not in my jurisdiction.

[Malcolm McLeod]

Not a Pro or much of a door maker, but in any production environment I've always advocated for spares.

In your case, maybe you could mill 10% extra parts and store them (cuz' we all have oodles & gobs of extra space:rolleyes:) for whatever warranty period your work has...? Simple to glue one up as need arises and assures virtually identical construction and materials as the originals - with only the original machine setups.

Not an answer to your question, but maybe an option.

[Joe Calhoon]

I like the way you think outside the box Larry!
you did not mention thickness. We try to go 1 3/4 thick unless it is a 1 1/8 or so historic replacement. Most of ours are outswing.

[John Blazy]

I would use exterior grade plywood. I assume 3/4" thick for screen doors. Spray polyester gelcoat on an entire stack of finished doors to get edges that paint well like real wood. I'm building some guitars right now, and absolutely love PE gelcoat cuz its cheap, sands like a dream, coats nicely and is structurally like adding veneer.

[Larry Edgerton]

I like the way you think outside the box Larry!
you did not mention thickness. We try to go 1 3/4 thick unless it is a 1 1/8 or so historic replacement. Most of ours are outswing.

Doors are 1 3/8 as specified by the powers of architectural wisdom

Ours is not to wonder why. Poplar, well Tulip is what I ordered, is what the trim is and what they want. Not a bad choice in this situation.

The problem with these doors is that they are on Lake Michigan facing west, and being a condo they have little side walls with a roof over for privacy, The alcove created is big enough to build up a lot of heat, but not big enough to shade that wall. Temps inside the alcove will be over 100 on a 70 degree afternoon with no wind. Its cooking the factory Anderson doors. Stupid design, but what do I know, I'm just a carpenter.

[Sam Murdoch]

I'm trying to think what you might be using for latches. Not mortise type with an aluminum strip in the way. Are these just slammers on springs or pneumatic closers?

If non mortise latches I think you could let in a piece of aluminum T into the door edge. A 1" T could be flush into the edge face with the leg going into a slot. Epoxy or even caulk as an adhesive. This way you would not need to laminate your latch stile.

I think the T would eliminate the need for call back of any kind including chiropractic care. Could be missing something in your description though.

Enjoying the image of your client watching through a window while you set his screen door on a couple of 1x blocks on his porch and stomp on it until it looks straight. :D There's youtube potential in that one.

[phil harold]

Are you limited to poplar? If not, perhaps use a more stable timber.
I agree Poplar/ Tulip is not the best choice for exterior use
https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/fnr/fnr-410-w.pdf

[Joe Calhoon]

Larry, you always score high for humor! I agree giving the doors the straightening treatment would be a UTube hit.

Poplar is expansive and not not a good choice for doors. If you can get the green colored heartwood in rift or vertical grain it would be better. Myself, at that thickness I would use solid white oak, VG fir or quartered mahogany. I have never had good luck making stave cores or laminated construction at 1 3/8" thick. I think better and cheaper to find good solid material.

[Larry Edgerton]

Its what they spec'ed Joe. Cost I am sure is their main objective. Condos you know, the scourge of the building industry.

I thought about switching species as I doubt they would know, but white oak would not be good as you have to staple screen to the door and be able to get the screen mold off reasonably easy when the grandkids blow a hole through it. I'll give them a coat of West System, SW adhesion promoting primer and then the color coat and they will be fine. They actually never get wet as they are back 8' under a roof and on the inside when the main doors are closed. By the time they go bad my wife will have had the big tool auction. Just saying.......

[Mel Fulks]

Yeah, it's not the best,but the roof and plumbing won't be the best either. Poplar varies a lot! Seen some that was so bad it was like giant strips of fried bacon. We have a local place that only buys from two Menonite mills, and it is great stuff.
Flat,stable,with good full thickness. Do not buy based on lowest price!

[Larry Edgerton]

Mel, this is all from southern Ill., Ind. Been buying from the same place for 20 years, LL Johnson, good stuff. The poplar that grows up here is useless, not even good for firewood. I have made a ton of interior doors out of this product with almost no callbacks, so with the west sealer coat I will be ok. Truck will be here today at three with a 2000 bf, so I am committed now.

Or, maybe I should be committed, I get confused.......;)

[andrew whicker]

Lol, well at least take the door to other side of the truck. Make some hammer noises. Pull on the drill trigger a few times. Come back with a flat door!

[David Zaret]

i'm no door expert either, but built my share... the most stable doors i've made (screen doors included) are those that have a timberstrand core, veneered with whatever wood i want. the timberstrand simply doesn't move. poplar may not be the best choice for an exterior door, agreed, but a poplar veneer (show-sawn, 0.050" or so) epoxied onto timberstrand, i'd put my name behind that....

good luck....

--- dz

[Peter Quinn]

I have no idea how it will work but it sounds interesting! Like a truss rod on a guitar neck. Any way to get a T in there for stiffness? Can you get double acting truss rods in an 80" format? Sounds like a rough environment as far as heat, is stave core an option? Too late if wood is already in the shop, and bid price already set. Poplar can be fickle, failure rate isn't too bad on that volume, my thinking is bump in a few extra doors during construction, put it in the price, better if there were some place on site to store them!

[Scott Austin]

I think I would do more than a few with the aluminum, to see how many of those need "adjustments".

I drive an hr & half to L.L. Johnson to get Alder. They give you a break if you get at least 100bf. With the savings I get checkers for the ride home.

[Chris Fournier]

Spec or no spec poplar is a very poor choice for these exterior doors. I live right next to Michigan and have used poplar outdoors. If the weather makes it past the finish you are cooked. I learned the hard way. Thought I could cheat, learned that I couldn't.

[Larry Edgerton]

Chris, they are not really exterior doors in the strictest sense, they are inside when the outswing main doors are closed, so as such will not receive the worst of the weather. So most of the time, and all of the bad weather they are inside. These places are empty for most of the year. Door parts are all made now, did four with the aluminum insert just to see, as an experiment. Kinda hope they warp.

I had a disclaimer on my quote that was signed off on that Poplar was not my choice but rather that of the architect so I am good. Three inch main tenons, West System for assembly and sealing the end grain, I am confident that they will last longer than I am doing this for a living.

Peter. I hope all finds you well. Been a while...........

[Peter Quinn]

I'm alive and well, took some time off to focus on work/family etc. Hope all is well with you, sounds like a good piece of work.

[Chris Fournier]

Sounds like you have this under control Larry!