Stopping rust on anything iron in the shop

[Paul K. Johnson]

I've already searched this and have seen a gazillion threads on it. I've tried everything and nothing really works unless I go around my shop every single day and wax or oil anything that's cast iron. I live in Florida on the coast and on a good day it's unbearably humid (I'm originally a Hoosier and even after being here for decades I've never acclimatized).

So frankly, I'm kind of sick of cast iron and would take almost anything else as an alternative for power tool tables. I don't care how "stable" it is.

I'm wondering if anyone has ever just painted the tables with Rustoleum or something and been done with it.

So far I've used T-Shield, 3M boat wax (intended for boats in salt water), beeswax, furniture wax (about a half-dozen different types), WD40, that rattle can sealer stuff (top kote and dry kote). At best some of them last a couple weeks IF the tool sees no use during that time. T-Shield did the best but I have to clean off the table with solvents before I put wood on it which makes it even more expensive (solvent plus having to reapply it all the time).

So yes, I'm very seriously considering painting all my cast iron tables. Has anyone done it and if so how did it work out?

[Frederick Skelly]

The extension tables on my saw were painted by the original owner. They scratch, then rust. Personally, I wouldnt like it if the main table was painted because the scratches on the extention tables increase friction - unevenly.

I am experimenting with using shellac on one of my hand planes. In 6 months, there is no rust. But again, on a tablesaw - scratches and resistance. Still, it could be worth a try - rub it on/in and let it dry. At worst, you use dna and wipe it off. At best, you wax less often.
Fred

[Paul K. Johnson]

Hi Fred,

Thanks for sharing your experience. I figured the worst thing would be scratches. I don't know how well it would work but I'd be researching paints before painting. I think epoxy might hold up pretty well.

I just bought my first ever shellac flakes and haven't used them yet. I may give it a shot on my planes.

[Charles Lent]

Humid and salty air is tough to deal with. The salt doesn't do much rusting if the humidity is low Where is your shop? Is it kept closed up or open to the outdoors?
Your best chance at reducing the rusting problem is keeping the humidity in your shop below 60% by using a dehumidifier or air conditioner to keep the humidity low. In Florida it will likely need to operate 24/7 for 10 months or more per year. If the shop is in the garage, keep the door shut as much as possible. Actually, keep the doors shut wherever your shop is located. Opening a garage door can let in enough moisture for a dehumidifier to take a whole day to remove. Make certain that the dehumidifier has a drain hooked to it so it isn't frequently shutting off with a full reservoir. You need it to run constantly. With a low maintained humidity level in your shop, the Boeshield and waxes have a chance at keeping the salt in the air from rusting your iron tools. They aren't very effective if the humidity is above 60%.

My shop is about 100' from and about 4' above a lake. The humidity of the air surrounding my shop is frequently 80-90% during the Summer months, but with no salt content. My shop is air conditioned and maintained at 75 deg during warm weather and kept at about 60 during the cold weather. Because the air conditioner is constantly removing humidity from the air in my shop, it usually runs between 45-55%. I use Johnsons Paste Wax on my cast iron and have no rusting problems, unless someone (my son or me) comes in with sweaty hands and touches my iron tools. This usually results in a rusty finger or hand print, even though the surfaces are waxed. Otherwise I have no rust problems in my shop.

Charley

[Paul K. Johnson]

My shop is my garage and it's anything but sealed. And it has no outside wall. What I normally do in the summer is open the door to the house and set a fan to blow A/C from the house into the shop. If the shop is the same climate as outdoors it takes about 3 days for it to get as cool as it's going to get.

The garage door leaks like mad and there's not much I can do about it. It's mostly at the top where if I put any kind of something to seal it the door would be inoperable. Or maybe not... I know jack about how houses are built.

I rent so I can't do anything extreme.

I keep the garage door shut as close to 100% as I can. I only open it for very short times if I can't take something in or out of the garage through the house or just don't want to like when I'm emptying a dust collector bag or something. But it's never more than 2-3 minutes and when that happens the A/C takes forever to cool everything down again.

I have one of those water removal machines used when a home floods. But it puts off a lot of heat and would make the shop unbearable to work in.

I can sympathize with the rusty hand prints. Earlier this year I bought a brand new oscillating spindle sander. The top was absolutely pristine. But it was on the floor of my shop. Remember when I mentioned I leave the house door open?

Well, a cat decided it was a great place to perch herself and then lick every part of her body.

There were two 6" circles of rust a two or three rusty paw prints.

I would have thought it was funny if the machine weren't brand new. So I took my random orbital sander with 800 paper and some oil and sanded it for about 10 minutes. Took off the rust but it's duller than it was before.

Oh yeah, I also got the bright idea to put acid on it thinking that would clean it up pretty quickly. I didn't dilute the acid and the paper towel I was holding almost burst into flames. It was smoking like crazy! I had no idea that would happen so it got doused in a bucket of water quickly and then I used a baking soda solution to kill the acid on the table. It turned almost black. That's why I sanded it.

Live and learn. Acid is nasty stuff. Yes, I wore protection but it melted the gloves too. I had them off before it got to my hands.

[Wayne Lomman]

As one who has spent a fair bit of time protecting steel structures in marine environments, you need inorganic zinc primer. A good quality rattle can zinc will do the job but it has to be a good one which means a $20 or 30 per can. You must clean the surface perfectly before applying it otherwise it won't work for long. Zinc is good because it goes slick with use and you can clean it spotless and recoat in a few years when you wear through it. Cheers

[Bob Bouis]

You need a dehumidifier or air conditioner with a "dry" or dehumidify function.

That sounds expensive, but in reality it's probably only a few hours a day where the humidity is high enough for condensation to form.

[Bill Dufour]

The INCA jointers with Aluminum tables come to mind. Someone made a granite tablesaw. But what about the moving mechanisms below are they aluminum or iron? It would be easy enough to make a bandsaw table of aluminum or stainless. You could glue Formica or stainless steel to the surface but lose some depth of cut.
I have and old RAS outside for cutting firewood. It came without a tabletop so I used a slab of marble. Worked well for several years until I dropped. a heavy piece of wood on it and it cracked. Today I would use solid surface countertop or marine plywood
Bill D.

http://steelcitytoolworks.com/index.php/table-saws/10-granite-contractor-saw-with-36-artisan-fence.html

[Robert Engel]

Paul,

I don't live on the coast, but I've lived in FL all my life and I feel your pain. Some parts of the year its just humidity, other parts of the year its the steel cooling down at night and condensation forming as it warms up. Yes, lots of guys talk about waxing and other treatments, but as I already know and you have found around here it is not very effective. Great for slippery tables and that's about all.

IMO the two biggest factors are 1) disuse and 2) an unsealed or "open" (non-climate controlled) shop. The machine portion of my shop is in an old horse barn. I would require a 4 ton unit to cool. I've sealed it up and keep it closed up at night with an overhead fan running constantly. Since doing this, I've have WAY less problems with rust. Every once in a while I have to address a rusty spot or two. But - (here's the kicker) I also use my ww'ing machines on a daily basis. That's why I say disuse is the #1 factor.

If you tell me what your shop environment is, I can help you more specifically. I will say in FL for guys with the typical 2 car garage or 6-800SF shop IMO AC is a must. Either a large window AC unit or better yet, a mini split. Aside from rust, its almost impossible to do ww'ing in FL during the summer without it anyway.

You mentioned cast iron, but rust can absolutely ruin a nice hand tool. I used to keep them in a sealed cabinet with a can of DampRid. This kept the humidity below 60%. I am fortunate to have enough space to build a climate controlled room where I now keep all my hand tools. I can leave them out and not worry at all about rust. Plus, its such a pleasure in the summer to be able to do some ww'ing!!

If your machines will not be in use for a while, I think the best procedure is to liberally apply WD40 & cover with a cloth also soaked in WD40. When you get ready to use, clean off with brake cleaner and apply a little BoeShield or wax.

Hope this helps.

[Ted Reischl]

Mr. Engel, it looks to me like you and I do the same thing and you addressed some very key points.

The biggest in my opinion is keeping the air moving with a fan. I do the same and have no trouble with rust at all here in NC. Leland is fairly close to the coast so we do have salt in the air.

Big ol' hunks of cast iron are just like drinks with ice cubes in them. The iron cools off at night, or when someone turns on the A/C. Then the shop is closed up. The air warms up faster than the iron, and presto, moisture starts to form on the iron.

I wax my tops maybe once, twice a year, but that fan never stops moving the air in my shop. When it is below 80 I work with the doors wide open.

My idea is to do as much to prevent the environment that causes the rust as possible, rather than trying to protect surfaces from that environment.

What I am trying to say is that if you keep the temperature of the cast iron close to what the surrounding air temp is doing you will have a lot less problem. Moving the air over that iron with a fan causes it to keep pace with the air temp much better.

[Cary Falk]

I live in the Pacific North West. T-9 and Paste wax works for me. I wax maybe 2 or 3 times a year. My tools are in an unheated/un-ac gage. I would never paint the tables. The paint would wear off on the wood.

[Ben Rivel]

I have heard that chrome plating cast iron is possible... Nickel-Boron might be an option too. Those both would be costly though Im sure. Though I'd consider it if I had to deal with rust like that on all my tools. Cleaning it up would be all I'd ever have time for in the shop.

[Harold Balzonia]

As Wayne mentioned, your best option is zinc coating. 30 years ago, my grandfather had a machine shop quite literally 20 feet from the beach in Hawaii and he coated nearly everything in zinc. It works.

[Alan Lightstone]

Paul,

I don't live on the coast, but I've lived in FL all my life and I feel your pain. Some parts of the year its just humidity, other parts of the year its the steel cooling down at night and condensation forming as it warms up. Yes, lots of guys talk about waxing and other treatments, but as I already know and you have found around here it is not very effective. Great for slippery tables and that's about all.

IMO the two biggest factors are 1) disuse and 2) an unsealed or "open" (non-climate controlled) shop. The machine portion of my shop is in an old horse barn. I would require a 4 ton unit to cool. I've sealed it up and keep it closed up at night with an overhead fan running constantly. Since doing this, I've have WAY less problems with rust. Every once in a while I have to address a rusty spot or two. But - (here's the kicker) I also use my ww'ing machines on a daily basis. That's why I say disuse is the #1 factor.

If you tell me what your shop environment is, I can help you more specifically. I will say in FL for guys with the typical 2 car garage or 6-800SF shop IMO AC is a must. Either a large window AC unit or better yet, a mini split. Aside from rust, its almost impossible to do ww'ing in FL during the summer without it anyway.

You mentioned cast iron, but rust can absolutely ruin a nice hand tool. I used to keep them in a sealed cabinet with a can of DampRid. This kept the humidity below 60%. I am fortunate to have enough space to build a climate controlled room where I now keep all my hand tools. I can leave them out and not worry at all about rust. Plus, its such a pleasure in the summer to be able to do some ww'ing!!

If your machines will not be in use for a while, I think the best procedure is to liberally apply WD40 & cover with a cloth also soaked in WD40. When you get ready to use, clean off with brake cleaner and apply a little BoeShield or wax.

Hope this helps.

I live on the Gulf Coast of Florida also, and have and still do fight many of these rust battles.

What has worked pretty well for me:

1.) Get a split AC unit for your garage workshop. I keep it on 24/7 in the summer, and on rainy days. This has helped reduce the dust tremendously.
2.) Never, ever open the garage door when it's raining. You might as well throw rust on your machines if you do that. That's my single golden rule.
3.) I spray my hand planes with CRC 3-36 lubricant. One of the woodworking journals rated it highest for rust protection a few years ago. Seems to work pretty well.
4.) Whenever I remember (or whenever there's a huge rainstorm, and I remember, I spray the table saw, router table, and jointer/planer with CRC 3-36.
5.) I use Damp-Rid in the cabinets where I keep chisels, and other handtools.
6.) I also have a few plug in (and other oven-recharging dehumidifier canisters). Those keep the humidity in those closets in the 30-35% range.

It's not perfect, but it does prevent most rust.

Hope this helps.

BTW, where are you on the Gulf Coast?

[Paul K. Johnson]

OK, I'll look for zinc. That seems to be a good answer. As I said, I have a fan blowing into the shop so air is always moving in there. Hasn't done much to prevent rust but I'm sure I get less rust because of it.

The other great benefit is that I have sawdust all over my house. Blowing air from the house into the shop means air moves from the shop into the wind. So no matter where I go in the house it has that shop feel. It's like heaven on earth. I mean what woodworker doesn't want sawdust on their pillow, right?

I don't even know what a split A/C is. Any type of unit that requires being on an outside wall is out of the question. No outside walls in the shop except the garage door. I've heard of A/C units like space heaters that only need to have a place to drain. I'm going to look into something like that. The person who told me about it said it works pretty well.

I'm in Spring Hill - gulf coast. I'm probably 3-5 miles from the ocean.

Oh, and yeah, my band saw is right next to the garage door. It gets the worst rust the fastest and no, I never open the door when it's raining. Even in the morning when there's dew on the ground, water drips off the roof and if the wind is blowing it will land on the band saw. So again, I never open the door until winter unless I absolutely have to.

[Alan Lightstone]

Largo, here, so we're close and have the same weather.

If you can have a small hole through one wall (not the garage door) you can get a split AC unit. They work awesome down here.

Just google split AC. You'll see what they are.

[Mike Spector]

A lot of good solutions from everyone, no doubt. What I've found that works is WORK. Yes, common old work, like using the tools every day, a lot. A fan moving air doesn't hurt either. Oh, I live at the intersection of the Sabine River and the Gulf. My stuff gets rusty too, if I don't use it.

[William M Johnson]

If you are really sick of it then I recommend "rust blueing " the surface. Wipe with lacquer thinner or other oil remover. Wipe with muriatic acid. Let sit and allow to rust over night. Knock the rust off with steel wool or real fine wire wheel. Repeat, repeat, repeat etc. you will eventually get a dark brown patina. This has been used on fine shotguns for 200 years. Brownell's has all the products you need including the fine wire wheel. I have done this on many double barrel shotguns. Works great just a lot of work.
It will take several applications before you get a uniform color across the top

[Brian Gumpper]

Paul,

I see you are in FL so not sure if you have a pool but I'll tell you what caused me great rust issues until I was informed. It was a bucket of chlorine tabs in the garage causing everything to rust; tops, screws, saws ... anything metal, even items still in the package. Once I moved out the chlorine, all has been good.

Just an FYI just in case.

[Bob Bouis]

Mini split air conditioners do need drains, but for a small premium you can get a condensate pump that can carry the water up and out (or into a drain in your house or attic).

[Andrew DiLorenzo]

Climate control can be very difficult for a renter. I suggest either coating the top with polyurethane as a woodworking youtube guy has done or, top the saw with plastic laminate. I knew a guy with a cabinet shop who did this and his top was smooth, and of course laminate does not rust. He lost 1/16 " of cutting depth. I suppose when the laminate wears out he can resurface it, and no doubt he recycled leftover laminate for his saw as needed. Use smooth laminate, not the textured stuff.

[Vince Shriver]

I've used a product call Permalac on outside hardware and some hand tools. Needs several applications when first done, but works pretty well. I doubt it would be good for a table saw or a similar surface.

[Jim Andrew]

I tried boeshield, and paste wax, and got tired of my machine tops rusting, and tried a little bit of wipe on poly. You might have to redo them occasionally, but find it works pretty well for me. It is about the thinnest coating you could put on, but iron does not absorb finish like wood does, so thick enough. My shop is a hobby shop, I use it a lot during winter, but not much during farming season.

[Guy Belleman]

For short term, I find that scrubbing with topcoat, then a coat of boeshield, and top with two coats of johnson paste wax works well. For longer time, I add a coat of slipit and a piece of thin plastic sheeting. Pressing plastic into slipit keeps the air, moisture, condensation, etc. away from the surface.

[Paul K. Johnson]

Brian - no pool and no chlorine. It's just humidity (and body oils/acids).

Andrew - I think the laminate might be a good idea for cast iron tables but then I still have hand planes that I always clean and oil when I'm finished using them and many times when I pick them up again they have the beginnings of rust around the edges and sometimes a spot of rust like a drop of water sat on it. I do everything I can to avoid touching the iron with my bare hands but that mostly makes them very inconvenient to use. So I've used various waxes and oils to protect them but it's very short-lived protection (like a week - two weeks tops).

Jim - If I go the paint route then I would look for a hard coating type paint. I have used regular enamel paints (Sears, Rustoleum) on some metal RC car roll cages and metal RC plane spinners in the past. I baked them in the oven and they got VERY hard. So hard that when I rolled the car on pavement multiple times the paint wasn't even scuffed or scratched. Some of my very old spinners have chipped paint from being in boxes with other spinners and engine parts. They were painted almost 30 years ago and I don't know how old they were when they chipped.

Guy - I'm looking for the kind of protection that will last a few months without being looked after. I want to avoid anything that's a clean-up job because I'm sure I'm like most people - I don't really know exactly when I'll be using a tool again - maybe tomorrow, next week or not for six months. I have some slip-it. I've only used it on runners for my table saw sleds. I like it for that and haven't tried it for any other purpose.

I appreciate the feedback from everyone. When I posted this I was pretty sure it was the kind of thing we all battle with and there's no cure-all or everyone would have pretty much the same answer.

[Robert Engel]

Paul, I sense a lot of frustration but trust me this is doable.

I and another poster mentioned Damp Rid. This will work. So does a camphor cube. I started out keeping my planes in a sealed plastic storage tub. Wipe down with WD40, not just oil this displaces moisture.

There are also dehumidification rods, but these are basically nothing more than little heaters.

Bottom line build yourself a tool cabinet with weather strip on the doors and a jar of DampRid.

I would consult an AC contracter re: the mini splits. I'm willing to bet he can find a place to locate the condenser. You will need to check the attic for insulation and insulate the garage doors.

Dust getting in your house is a serious health issue (think MDF) which needs to be address regardless of the fan you can track wood dust into your house. This is a huge issue with garage workshops. So is personal dust protection. An air filtration unit is a good idea, too. You also need to check your air handler and make sure all the panels are throughly air tight.

[Dave Rosner]

My shop is in a barn that is as exposed as it gets and has a flor that gets damp after a rain. So I have lots of rust problems on my hand tools but have seemed to solve it for my tablessaw top.

I spray boshield and let it dry for 15 mins or so. Then I lightly wipe it down and do that again. Then I use paste wax - sometimes it's a fancy Marine one and sometimes it's johnsons. I don't do this every day but it's pretty regular - maybe every 2-3 weeks. Sometimes I just reapply the wax.

BUT - the most important thing I do that is critical is that when not in use I put down a moving blanket and put a piece of heavy plywood on top. You can get the blanket for 8 bucks at Harbour freight and it was the best money I've spent there. It's really important that the whole surface is covered, its flat flush with the table (I have to remove my splittter), and the plywood is almost the same size as the table.

Im going on over a year and the only time I had a problem was when I left the blanket off one night. Ca in next morning and there were a few spots of rust just starting out.

Hope this Helps!

[Charles Lent]

For hand tools, keeping them in tool boxes or other enclosed and lidded boxes along with camphor blocks with them works very well. An old German tool maker taught me that. He kept several in the drawers of his wooden tool chest and added more when they got down to about 1/4 of their original size. If the wrapper is intact, they store without deterioration for a couple of years. Each block is a little smaller than hotel soap. Just slit the plastic wrapper and place it in the container with the tools. Leave the wrapper on to control the rate of evaporation. An X slit across one of the large sides is all that is needed. A single / slit will reduce the rate of evaporation. A block in a wooden machinist's tool chest will last 6 months to about a year.

Keeping the humidity in the 40-60 % range in your shop will solve all of your rust problems if you can keep your shop closed up well. Dehumidifiers or air conditioners can do this if you can keep the doors and windows shut to keep the outside humid air out. Using an air conditioner will keep the temperature lower, so you can work more comfortably while also keeping the humidity lower. Insulating the shop and doors will help reduce the amount of air conditioning that you will need. A vapor barrier
in the ceiling, walls, and floor will help keep the moisture out.

I know that it isn't possible to do all of this to a rented space, but the more of it that you can accomplish, the more rust free your shop and tools will be.

Charley

[Phillip Gregory]

A dehumidifier or air conditioner and an airtight shop with vapor barriers underneath the concrete floor and around the entire outside of the building are your best bet. I used to have a non-dehumidified, non-air-conditioned steel building without any vapor barrier and only with coating EVERYTHING metal in oil or paste wax every month did I keep things from rusting (and EVERYTHING rusts- including hand tools and saw blades.) Moved and the shop is now in a basement with A/C and vapor barriered everything and zero rust, zero mold, zero warping, zero mildew and I've waxed nothing since the move a year ago.

[jeremy lankford]

I am new to this forum but i live in southern alabama 2 hours from the coast. I know all about rusting in an unsealed workshop. Someone mentioned above about a guy on youtube and urethaning your tools. I believe it was matthias wandel's video if im spelling this correctly. He used waterbased polyacrylic. Not oil based. I tried this on all my hand planes. What i have found is that you need to coat them and quickly wipe off all you see on the iron surfaces. If you dont youll end up with a brown tinted hand plane or top. I have had them sitting on my assembly table with garage doors up 90% of the time. Its been i think about 6 weeks since i have done this. No rust whatsoever on them. When i get done with my current project i am goin to coat my stationary tools. It has worked so far for me when nothing else has. Maybe it would be worth a try..

[Cary Falk]

Why would anyone use water based anything on something that will rust?

[jeremy lankford]

Youd have to watch the video. I thought the same exact thing before i tried it