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Mike Baker 2
06-12-2017, 12:43 PM
Went looking for tools at the flea markets this weekend.

361908

The saw in the front I actually found last Sat, 5/27, but I did not get the chance to post it until now. It is a Warranted Superior. 22" measured from where the top of the handle ends to the toe of the saw, 26" measured from tooth to tooth. Any consensus on how to measure saw length on this board?
The saw plate is fairly thick and heavy, and it's a cross cut. The handle was destroyed. It was made from pine. Grain is easy to recognize, and my thumb nail dents it quite easily. I have the saw nuts and medallion for it. I will have to make a handle for it, but that should not be too difficult. If there's interest, I'll try to document it in another thread. I have a new Youtube channel on hand tool wood working, so it's hard to remember to shoot pics instead of video. :P
Files are 5" Slim Taper. Got two of them. Guy said he had a full dozen in that box when he started; I got the last two.Fifty cents apiece. I wish I had caught him sooner. :(

361910

They are made by Kearney & Foot Co. They might work to sharpen my saws, though they seem to be smaller size/length than either Lee Valley or Vintage Saws recommends for 8ppi or 10 ppi. But in reading up on their site, file choice is slightly subjective. From what I can gather the crucial bits are a file size that allows you to clearly see what you're filing, and corners that are well sized to the "gullet" (?) of the teeth you are cutting. Sounds like a case of "best judgement" to me.

Saw on top is an H. Disston and Sons. Rip cut. First one I've seen around here. All the rest were cross cut. It is on the small side at 18" tooth to tooth and 16 & 1/4 inches measured from the top of the handle to the toe of the saw. I at first thought it was a saw someone had shortened, but it has the little "nipple", or whatever it is called, at the toe end of the plate. Unless it was shortened at the heel, my best guess is it is the original length. It has a decent sized chunk taken out of it at the toe, but I don't think it will hurt function.

361911

Since it is three hole like the Warranted Superior, and I prefer the way the Disston handles have the "drop" in relation to the blade, instead of just a straight handle, I'll most likely use it's handle as a template for the WS handle build.

lowell holmes
06-12-2017, 3:58 PM
That saw needs a new curly maple handle. I have a D-7 that had a bright saw plate. I made a new curly maple handle for it and it is gorgeous.

Mike Baker 2
06-12-2017, 5:01 PM
I have some curly maple, but it is 3/4"(11/16, actually). Need to measure the thickness of the original handle.
I have some Black Walnut from a piece of a tree trunk a friend gave me several years ago. I split it into wedges and have been storing it ever since. Might go with that if it's not too much work to flatten and I can get the right thickness.

Jim Koepke
06-12-2017, 7:58 PM
But in reading up on their site, file choice is slightly subjective. From what I can gather the crucial bits are a file size that allows you to clearly see what you're filing, and corners that are well sized to the "gullet" (?) of the teeth you are cutting. Sounds like a case of "best judgement" to me.

One aspect to be aware of with a saw file is the face of the file should be at least twice as tall as the tooth. This is so when filing only the lower half of the face is worn leaving half of the two faces left to work with the other faces of the file.

jtk

Mike Baker 2
06-12-2017, 8:04 PM
Thanks, Jim. Yep, I read that. I have a 7" x slim taper here, too, so hopefully one of them will do the trick. Have to refurbish the plates first, anyway, so not ready for filing yet.

Dave Beauchesne
06-13-2017, 12:28 AM
Mike:

If you make a new handle for the saw make sure to use quarter sawn wood. I like the 'complete ' saw - like the handle for sure.

Good luck!

Dave B

Stew Denton
06-13-2017, 1:23 AM
Mike,

Regarding saw blade length. The blade length is measured along the tooth line. Thus a 26" saw blade will measure 26" from the tip of the toe to the trailing edge of the heel along the line of the teeth. In some saws, the heal of the saw slopes up to the heal of the handle, sloping forward, which means that as the saw is repeatedly sharpened, the measured length of the saw decreases somewhat.

With regard to the way the grain runs in the handle, that has come up before, and if I recall, there is some disagreement as to what is best. However, when it came up last time I went out to the garage and looked at the handles on several of my old (meaning roughly mostly the first 1/3 of the previous century) Disston hand saws. What I found was that Disston apparantly did not care what way the grain ran, I saw for flat sawn and some rift sawn, and some mostly quartersawn.

That said, Disston primarily used Apple for the handle on their hand saws. Apple, to my understanding, has interlocking grain, which means it splits only with significant difficulty. That may explain why the did not seem to care which way the grain ran.

The concern I would have about using quarter sawn lumber, with lumber that does not have interlocking grain, is that it is far more likely to split where the handle is quite narrow where the handle works forward from the bottom of the handle and goes back to the front part of the handle. That spot in the old saws is quite narrow, and curves up somewhat, which leaves a narrow spot which can easily split at that point.

I have seen a number of old saws that were in fact split at that very location. The repair was often glue and the handle wrapped with old black fabric friction tape. In some cases the handle broke completely in two, and the lower portion of the handle was completely missing. If you look at the handle in the photo at the top of the page, that you need to replace, it appears that the handle broke off at that spot.

Flat sawn is more likely to cup a little, and maybe rift sawing might be the best. For me, I would want the grain to be rift sawn, with the rift angle significantly favoring flaw sawn as opposed to favoring quarter sawn. Again, I know that how the grain runs in a saw handle has been a little controversial, and quarter sawn certainly makes for a very attractive handle, but for the reason of strenght, I would not go there.

Stew

Dave Beauchesne
06-13-2017, 9:36 AM
Mike,

Regarding saw blade length. The blade length is measured along the tooth line. Thus a 26" saw blade will measure 26" from the tip of the toe to the trailing edge of the heel along the line of the teeth. In some saws, the heal of the saw slopes up to the heal of the handle, sloping forward, which means that as the saw is repeatedly sharpened, the measured length of the saw decreases somewhat.

With regard to the way the grain runs in the handle, that has come up before, and if I recall, there is some disagreement as to what is best. However, when it came up last time I went out to the garage and looked at the handles on several of my old (meaning roughly mostly the first 1/3 of the previous century) Disston hand saws. What I found was that Disston apparantly did not care what way the grain ran, I saw for flat sawn and some rift sawn, and some mostly quartersawn.

That said, Disston primarily used Apple for the handle on their hand saws. Apple, to my understanding, has interlocking grain, which means it splits only with significant difficulty. That may explain why the did not seem to care which way the grain ran.

The concern I would have about using quarter sawn lumber, with lumber that does not have interlocking grain, is that it is far more likely to split where the handle is quite narrow where the handle works forward from the bottom of the handle and goes back to the front part of the handle. That spot in the old saws is quite narrow, and curves up somewhat, which leaves a narrow spot which can easily split at that point.

I have seen a number of old saws that were in fact split at that very location. The repair was often glue and the handle wrapped with old black fabric friction tape. In some cases the handle broke completely in two, and the lower portion of the handle was completely missing. If you look at the handle in the photo at the top of the page, that you need to replace, it appears that the handle broke off at that spot.

Flat sawn is more likely to cup a little, and maybe rift sawing might be the best. For me, I would want the grain to be rift sawn, with the rift angle significantly favoring flaw sawn as opposed to favoring quarter sawn. Again, I know that how the grain runs in a saw handle has been a little controversial, and quarter sawn certainly makes for a very attractive handle, but for the reason of strenght, I would not go there.

Stew

Thanks for that Stew - my minor experience was with a couple saws that were flat sawn and they cupped the saw plate, hence my reference to quarter sawn. My collection of saws is virtually all quarter sawn and a good number of rift. None of the old timers I have found were flat sawn. Thanks again. Dave B

Mike Baker 2
06-13-2017, 11:39 AM
Dave and Stew, thanks for the posts.
If you look closely at that handle, it is flat sawn pine.
As for what grain orientation I will eventually use, my lumber supply is really sparse, and the mill I used to buy from has closed down. Closest to me now is 60-70 miles one way, and I don't buy a large amount usually because I need to store it and don't really have the room.
So I will have to go with what I can find around here that is the right size, or join a couple of smaller pieces to make it work. So whatever it is, that's the way it'll go, lol.
I can tell you that it will not be pine, that is for sure.
I had a bit of Black Walnut stored out back, but I went digging in it yesterday and it is loaded with ants. So that may be out.
Booooo.
:D