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View Full Version : Looking for non-ferrous tension curtain rods.



Malcolm Schweizer
06-09-2017, 12:37 PM
Because my house has shutters, I can't use regular screens because then I can't reach through to close the shutters. Instead, we use curtains of netting stretched between spring-loaded curtain rods. The panels meet in the middle and it is easy to reach through to close a shutter.

All the spring-loaded rods I have found are ferrous metal and they rust. Our windows are open 24/7 and we only close them if it rains really hard. The rods often get a little water on them and rust.

Pic:
361683

Bruce Page
06-09-2017, 2:02 PM
Could the rods you're using be modified by pulling the guts out of the existing tubes and replacing the tubes with PVC?

Malcolm Schweizer
06-09-2017, 4:20 PM
PVC bends. I tried something similar. For the time being I am taping the rods with white duct tape to keep the rust from penetrating to the cloth, but obviously that's just a temporary fix. Unfortunately these things aren't cheap and I have 14 windows to do. I'm hoping to find an aluminum rod of some sort. I did try wedging a wood rod in, and that doesn't work too well. The wood eventually bends and loosens. Surely there is an aluminum one out there somewhere, but the problem is nobody listing them ever tells what they are made of. I am hoping maybe someone here has seen one made of aluminum or... something else that doesn't rust.

Bill Jobe
06-09-2017, 9:14 PM
As Bruce suggested above using copper?

Chris Parks
06-09-2017, 10:29 PM
Stainless steel would be my choice.

Bob Vavricka
06-09-2017, 10:49 PM
How about a shower curtain rod, may not be non-ferrous, but would be coated to stand up to getting wet.

Alan Rutherford
06-10-2017, 8:16 AM
The screens are essentially permanently in place aren't they? That is, as long as you can reach through them to reach the shutters you seldom move the rods? You might use wooden dowels either sprung into place or fitted with a small wedge on one end. The one on top could rest on a small ledger or tiny metal (brass?) bracket and only the bottom one would need to be wedged. Or the same brackets you use on the top could be installed upside-down at the bottom.

Malcolm Schweizer
06-10-2017, 11:04 AM
I have tried tensioning wood dowels but they bend over time. Copper would work. I would need to paint it to keep it from turning the cloth green. I could make something to hold it in versus the spring tension. I should mention these often take a good bit of wind load. That was another issue with wood. These tall doors to the porch get a lot of wind and have a lot of cloth. I'm headed to HD and may pick up some copper while there to play around with.

361741

Greg R Bradley
06-10-2017, 11:44 AM
How about buying two different size Stainless Steel tubes where the ID of the larger is just a bit larger than the OD of the smaller? Cut to size and use the rubber boots and internal spring from your existing rods.

Basically just manufacture your own quality curtain rods.

Adam Herman
06-10-2017, 12:32 PM
check out the Titian "never rust" line of shower rods, supposed to be made of all aluminum.

Bill Jobe
06-10-2017, 12:43 PM
I have tried tensioning wood dowels but they bend over time. Copper would work. I would need to paint it to keep it from turning the cloth green. I could make something to hold it in versus the spring tension. I should mention these often take a good bit of wind load. That was another issue with wood. These tall doors to the porch get a lot of wind and have a lot of cloth. I'm headed to HD and may pick up some copper while there to play around with.

361741

Are you certain the copper would cause the cloth to turn green.
Also, that green you are referring to is patina. My wife would kill for anything to decorate with that has patina. I nearly lost the privaledge of sleeping inside as apposed to the dog house because of patina.
She had picked up a floor lamp that she was crazy about and I told her I would clean it up and rewire it since it was very old. Took it out to the garage and began polishing the pole near the top. When she returned home that same day from shopping I proudly showed her the wonderful job I'd done so far and I thought she was going to wring my neck.
If memory serves you can spray paint copper with a clear shellac to prevent it from discoloring .

Malcolm Schweizer
06-10-2017, 2:24 PM
check out the Titian "never rust" line of shower rods, supposed to be made of all aluminum.

Yes, I saw those, but I need rods for panel curtains.


How about buying two different size Stainless Steel tubes where the ID of the larger is just a bit larger than the OD of the smaller? Cut to size and use the rubber boots and internal spring from your existing rods.

Basically just manufacture your own quality curtain rods.


In short, it's not that simple. The factory ones are semi-square. Also there has to be something for the spring to compress against.



Are you certain the copper would cause the cloth to turn green.
Also, that green you are referring to is patina. My wife would kill for anything to decorate with that has patina. I nearly lost the privaledge of sleeping inside as apposed to the dog house because of patina.
She had picked up a floor lamp that she was crazy about and I told her I would clean it up and rewire it since it was very old. Took it out to the garage and began polishing the pole near the top. When she returned home that same day from shopping I proudly showed her the wonderful job I'd done so far and I thought she was going to wring my neck.
If memory serves you can spray paint copper with a clear shellac to prevent it from discoloring .

The copper would very likely discolor the cloth, but painting will fix that. I'm with you- I like to polish old copper, but most collectors want the patina.



I may do copper pipe with white paint and some sort of wood block with an indentation to hold them. I like that because it doesn't depend on tension alone to hold them in when the wind blows.

Dave Richards
06-10-2017, 5:59 PM
Can you get stainless steel tube? You could epoxy a nut in one end and use a machine screw with another nut on it as a lock. A little plastic cap on each end and you should be good.

Malcolm Schweizer
06-10-2017, 7:17 PM
Can you get stainless steel tube? You could epoxy a nut in one end and use a machine screw with another nut on it as a lock. A little plastic cap on each end and you should be good.

Not a bad idea. Might be costly but I have tons of epoxy.

Malcolm Schweizer
06-10-2017, 7:53 PM
It turns out stainless tube is $12 a foot. That's out. I will probably play with copper. I'm thinking about the epoxied nut and bolt idea.

Bill McNiel
06-10-2017, 8:36 PM
Try checking out shower curtain rods. Mine have not rusted in 7 years of use.

Bob Vavricka
06-10-2017, 10:44 PM
I agree with the shower curtain (spring tension type) approach. You may need to have the rod pocket at the top of the panel made larger to accommodate the larger size rod, but that would be a lot easier than most of the other ideas I've seen.

Keith Westfall
06-11-2017, 1:32 AM
Wooden dowels, with a wooden hangar (thing U shaped) to hang them on at the top, and upside down hangars (think upside down U's)to hook them in on the bottom. If the curtains are the 'right' length, you could have sufficient tension to hold things in place.

Bill Jobe
06-11-2017, 4:35 AM
Think Magnets.
They make them for everything.
It wouldn't let me post just "magnets". Not enough letters.

Allan Dozier
06-11-2017, 9:03 AM
I had some tent poles many years ago that were two aluminum tubes. The smaller one that slid into the larger had an eccentric lobe attached to the end so you extended it and then rotated it to lock it. Don't know if they still make them but you could check outdoor or camping sources.

Second suggestion: instead of depending on compression of the tubes to hold them in place, maybe just use a straight piece of aluminum and use an attachment of several sorts attached to the window casing to hold the ends in place. You could used a springy U shaped holder, or like they use for closet rods or shower rods use a round socket on one end and a U shaped one on the other. If it tended to lift out from the wind then use a little screw or pin to close over the U.

Malcolm Schweizer
06-11-2017, 10:35 AM
I love the ideas. It is fun to solve problems like this. I think we all share that. The rods need to be around 1/2" to fit the pockets, and I do not want them bigger because I don't like the look. The rods have to be at the very bottom and top. These are mosquito panels. There is 1" of overhanging fabric at the top and bottom to ensure any gap is closed. They also fit flush to the sides. This leaves little room for fittings, which is why I like the compression fit. My other option is make a "u" shape to hold them in. I could also drill an indentation into the window moulding but would rather not. Magnets won't hold well enough.

Bill Jobe
06-11-2017, 11:19 AM
I love the ideas. It is fun to solve problems like this. I think we all share that. The rods need to be around 1/2" to fit the pockets, and I do not want them bigger because I don't like the look. The rods have to be at the very bottom and top. These are mosquito panels. There is 1" of overhanging fabric at the top and bottom to ensure any gap is closed. They also fit flush to the sides. This leaves little room for fittings, which is why I like the compression fit. My other option is make a "u" shape to hold them in. I could also drill an indentation into the window moulding but would rather not. Magnets won't hold well enough.

They make window and door screens that are to keep out mosquito. They can be cut to any size and the magnets keep them closed but they easily open simply by walking through them, or in your case with windows, your hands to open and close the shutters.

lowell holmes
06-11-2017, 1:00 PM
At $12/ft. your talking less than $100. That sounds reasonable to me.

Bill Jobe
06-11-2017, 4:39 PM
Have you considered bamboo?;

Karl Andersson
06-12-2017, 8:28 AM
Malcolm,
couldn't you just sand and epoxy/ glasscoat the ones you have? Or you could use fiberglass rod if you could make screw expanders on one end
Karl

Malcolm Schweizer
06-12-2017, 11:39 AM
At $12/ft. your talking less than $100. That sounds reasonable to me.

$100 per window, times 16 of them. That's pricey.


They make window and door screens that are to keep out mosquito. They can be cut to any size and the magnets keep them closed but they easily open simply by walking through them, or in your case with windows, your hands to open and close the shutters.

Yes, we use those for the kitchen and garden and we love them for entry and exit doors but for the other windows we want something more traditional. (Historic house). Also they still require a curtain rod, so we are back to square 1.

361907



Have you considered bamboo?;

Not against it, but it might bend. Worth a try.


Malcolm,
couldn't you just sand and epoxy/ glasscoat the ones you have? Or you could use fiberglass rod if you could make screw expanders on one end
Karl

Way too hard to not glue it together trying to epoxy coat it.

Bill McNiel
06-12-2017, 12:01 PM
Ok Malcolm, how about 2 non-ferrous rods (say 3/8" diameter) with threaded ends, end caps and a matching female coupler (OD=1/2") in the middle. This would allow you to adjust the length as needed.

Malcolm Schweizer
06-12-2017, 4:33 PM
Ok Malcolm, how about 2 non-ferrous rods (say 3/8" diameter) with threaded ends, end caps and a matching female coupler (OD=1/2") in the middle. This would allow you to adjust the length as needed.

That's kind of what I'm thinking, but so far the cost is going to be quite high for that. So far copper pipe with some sort of mounting bracket (which I have yet to devise) is looking pretty good as far as cost and function. I have 16 windows (14 and two doors) to do this for, and each one would need a top and bottom rod, so 32 rods. I really need to keep this cost-effective, hence I was hoping for an off-the-shelf solution. After giving it thought, I'm game for spending a bit more and making something that will outlast the off-the-shelf solution, but only within reason. Daddy has to pay bills, put on a new roof, buy a new stove... and I thought boat ownership was costly!!!

An additional concern- stainless steel is a lie. There is no "stainless" steel. It all rusts- just the stuff with more nickel rusts much, much more slowly. Stainless steel needs oxygen to maintain its rust-proof barrier. Wherever stainless steel mounts tightly is where it will rust. That's why stainless hardware on a boat always has rust streaks coming from the back of it. (you may know this- I am stating it for the masses) I'm liking the painted copper idea. It would most definitely have to be painted or otherwise covered or coated, as it would turn the white cloth black and/or green. Just rub a white cloth on some raw copper and you will see.

Very glad I posted this. Lots of good ideas.

Bill Jobe
06-12-2017, 8:57 PM
Well then you're left with no other choice....you're going to have to use Osage Orange.

Malcolm Schweizer
07-01-2017, 12:35 PM
This turned out to be easier than I expected. (Rare for me.) I took 1/2" copper pipe and hammered a 5/16" ID 1/2" OD nut in each end and used a 5/16"x2" bolt to tension them in. I had planned to braze the nut in place but it easily hammered in and cut its own hex path and is very tight. 1/3 the price of buying cheap rods at the store, more durable, and rust proof.

Bill McNiel
07-02-2017, 11:57 AM
This turned out to be easier than I expected. (Rare for me.) I took 1/2" copper pipe and hammered a 3/8" ID 1/2" OD nut in each end and used a 3/8"x2" bolt to tension them in. I had planned to braze the nut in place but it easily hammered in and cut its own hex path and is very tight. 1/3 the price of buying cheap rods at the store, more durable, and rust proof.

Very solid solution Malcolm. What if you added sticky backed felt dots to the heads of the bolts? This should provide a better interface with the window jamb.

Malcolm Schweizer
07-02-2017, 12:08 PM
Very solid solution Malcolm. What if you added sticky backed felt dots to the heads of the bolts? This should provide a better interface with the window jamb.

I had the same idea but I am going to try without that first. Already spent $200 on this project.

Malcolm Schweizer
07-03-2017, 4:57 PM
363135Update: These copper pipes are horribly out of tolerance from one to the next. I had to go up one size to 3/8" nuts because some were falling into the pipe instead of wedging in. I bet there is 1/16" diameter variation and literally 50% wall thickness variation from one to the next. The 3/8" actually flare the pipe. They are harder to get in, but zero chance they will fail under tension since they flare the pipe on the way in. They seat firmly that way. I bought some self-etching primer and will prime and then paint white. Love the copper look, but it will surely tarnish and will turn the white curtains black. Also not interested in clear coating and worrying about clear coat not adhering.