Teen's first car

[Matt Meiser]

Since things have changed from when I was that age I'm interested in hearing others' recent history approaches on cars for their teens.

One thing I will mention since someone will likely suggest this option--given that we live in the state with the most expensive insurance in the country a cheap lease is out of the question due to (un)affordability of insurance. Those living elsewhere would probably have a heart attack if they found out what we currently pay for two 40-somethings with good credit, safe driver credits, and 5 mile and 0 mile commutes.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I have many years to go before my daughter is driving, but my deal will be this:
- If you help build a classic car, I will pay for it.
- If you want a modern car, or don't want to build a car, I will pay half.

I'm hoping she choses option 1. I'm itching to build another classic VW.

[Harold Balzonia]

You've touched a bit of a nerve with me so please forgive me if I hop up on a soap box...

driving modern cars is ridiculously easy... you steer with one finger, enjoy crazy quiet interiors, never shift a transmission except for reverse, perfect air temperature year round, back up cameras and huge touch screens, some of the damn things will even parallel park for you! etc etc....

what all this means is the SKILLS of actually driving a car are falling away quickly. I want my kids to know how to correct/control a slide. I want them to know how to shift a manual transmission and WHY drivers need to know which gear does what. I want them to know how to back up without all the nanny assisting crap. I'm going to teach my kids how to back up with a trailer asap. They need to hear an engine work. They need to drive with the windows rolled down and feel everything.

my kids (both girls) are 9 years old and I have them riding quads to learn how to handle and control motorized vehicles. Kids need to learn to drive by the feelings in the seat of their pants, not by the computer simulations that cars are becoming. My kids will learn to drive on my 1974 BMW 2002. As soon as they prove competent there, I'll move them on to a modern "golf cart" type car if that's what they want. But they will know how to change the oil, they'll know what a car with low tire pressure feels like, how to fix a flat, etc etc....

most of all, no matter what car you get them, teach your kids to DRIVE.... not just press buttons and pedals.

[Wayne Lomman]

I with you Harold even though my kids are somewhat past the learn to drive age. Kids need to be taught to drive, not just be steering wheel attendants. Too many like that out there already. Cheers

[Jason Roehl]

Matt, we're working on teen car #2 right now. For my daughter, she bought her car about 16 months ago. I shopped, she paid. It had been a while since I had bought a car--her's was under $2000, and we saw a lot of total clunkers in the $1500-$2500 range, stuff that I didn't think was worth $500. Her's is no peach, either, but it's functional for getting her to work and school, and even though it's high mileage (170k), it's an '01 Nissan Altima. My son (#2 child of 3) recently got his license, and his avenue to wheels is going to be a little different. We came into an essentially free car due to it being non-functional. It needed an A/C compressor, because the clutch had locked up and shredded the serpentine belt. No A/C delete option available. We put in a junkyard compressor and got it running, but have since found a few other problems that we're working through to get it on the road. Bent rim, no cabin heat (in the process of flushing the coolant now), and I will give the A/C a go--we won't have to put much money into it. This is an '01 Dodge Stratus with 146k on it. I'm making my son do most of the work.

His insurance is pretty expensive, but I also remember looking at potentially my first car in Michigan 24 years ago--it would have been $4k/year for insurance! As it was, my first car ended up being here in Indiana, and it was $1300/yr for liability and comprehensive only--no collision. That was of course with a ticket and an accident already on my record. He'll be paying that much without those blemishes.

Harold, I tend to agree with you, but the reality is that there aren't many "driver's cars" out there any more. Even after years of driving, I found that driving a plow truck (in an old, large truck--thankfully not a manual) helped my driving in many ways--attentiveness, slide control and recovery (ever drifted a dump truck?) and fatigued driving (up to 32 hours driving straight through). My kids have been driving a little while now, but I still plan to take them out to a large, snowy parking lot this coming winter and let them have some fun--and learn control recovery skills.

[Matt Day]

My kids have a long time before driving (3 and 4 yo), but if they were driving now I'd look for an early 2000's Subaru like I have. Manual transmission, no backup cameras or anything, no touch screens. Mine is a 2004 Forester XT, the first year they were offered with a turbo. Plenty of other manual Subaru out there. Safe too.

[Matt Meiser]

Why spoil them with comforts like a roof, heat, and an internal combustion engine? Manual transmissions are just about gone. Yeah, I learned to drive one and my first new car had one. But reality is today's teens will probably will never drive one and likely their days of even really driving are pretty short. Its reality, like it or not.

Matt, I like backup cameras. I will add one to her car if I can do something reliable (not a Walmart-special wireless one.) As a person with no depth perception, backup cameras have changed my life because I can now actually maneuver a car in a tight parking lot. We will probably put a Bluetooth enabled stereo in her car as well--no "I was driving, I couldn't answer" excuses.

What I'm really interested in hearing about is strategy for who buys, whether you went with a "beater", mid-range, or whatever. We are a Ford family so we've looked at a couple mid-late 2000's Focuses (Foci?) and so far I've seen about what Jason has described. I also looked at one Fusion and one Escape of similar vintage on a lot but both were $4500 and that's getting up there for a vehicle that we'd potentially be throwing away if it got damaged beyond being driveable.

Michael, this thread isn't about cell phones. Please start your own thread if you want to talk about them.

[Robert Engel]

F350 4X4 w/ cow catcher grille. Just kidding.

The dilemma is do you get them a beater or a car worth carrying collision, because that's where the cost is. With a beater, repairs can eat your lunch, with a decent car more money up front (NEVER finance a teen's car) but the premiums are higher. Ultimately I think it depends on the kid.

Both my sons have had Honda Civics, Subaru and Hyundai. The first one was manual shift/no power anything even steering. IMO the Civic has be the most bomb proof mechanically, but safety wise, there isn't much short of a Volvo or a pickup. The one with the Hyundai totaled his in an accident all it was a fender bender. We paid $3000 for the car the insurance company valued it at $1800.

BTW, all the accidents were the result of texting while driving. They all were rear enders.

Expensive lesson learned but we end up paying. In 43 years of driving I have never been the cause of an accident. But I guarantee my father would not have done what I've done for my kids if I had.

[Erik Loza]

We don't have kids but if we did and if we needed to buy a car, I would probably buy a used (2000's) Civic or Camry. Or perhaps a Kia or Hyundai. My feeling is that they're going to scratch/damage/otherwise ruin it anyhow. Just something reliable, good on gas, and with modern safety features.

Erik

[Matt Meiser]

Robert, that's the exact conversation my wife and I have been having, except more along the lines of how much risk are we willing to put into this since collision in Michigan is out of the question.

[Stan Calow]

There was no way our kids could have afforded to buy a car and pay for insurance on the part-time money they could have made working while in school. They got our hand-me-down cars until they got out of school. Then they traded up when they had some cash. I see a lot of kids now who don't get their licenses until they are in their twenties, because they can't afford the insurance, even those working full-time.

[Jerome Stanek]

When my boy started to drive I had a Bronco II that was an extra for my business and when My daughter started to drive I added a Ranger pickup that she saw and liked. When she took her test that was what she drove and when she had to do the maneuverability part she did not look back over her shoulder and the tester asked her why and she said I learned to use my mirrors to back up

[Matt Meiser]

I then gave the Escort to a friend of mine at work (at 150,000 miles) and it is still running today. My youngest daughter ended up with an S-10 Chevy pickup that was handed down by my Dad.

Those older cars are long gone here, literally...they've rusted away to nothing! That causes a dilemma here because even mid-2000's cars, many are starting to rust, and its than just cosmetic issues as rusted rocker panels and the like affect the structural integrity of the vehicle in an accident.

[Matt Meiser]

There was no way our kids could have afforded to buy a car and pay for insurance on the part-time money they could have made working while in school.

This is the reality. Add a couple sports and volunteer activities and they are also very busy by the time you add at least a couple hours of homework each night. We've made it clear she WILL get a job next summer (still 15 right now so not many options yet.) Adding working to that load would inevitably affect grades, which would inevitably affect the net cost of college in a much bigger way than in the past. As well, the money kids make has a pretty big impact on the FAFSA than in the past so you have to be careful you aren't robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[Jerry Bruette]

Matt,

Is it possible to insure your daughter with a "rider" on your policy. When my kids got their licenses our agent let us insure them with a rider on our policy. My son had his own car and my daughter used one of ours. The cost of the rider was a fraction of a full policy in their name.

In do remember some legality of primary driver and occasional driver status.

Been a while since I've had experience with the lovely FAFSA, but if the car is titled and registered in your name I don't think it affects the FAFSA.

[Chris Padilla]

Timely thread...my daughter will be 15.5 come late August and I'm anxious and she is as well to get her permit and eventually license ASAP. I look forward to her driving herself to her thousands of sporting events!! And now that summer is here, she wants to participate in various [insert sport here] camps and unless she finds a ride or can take the bus or maybe Uber/Lyft, Mom and Dad are working and cannot shuttle her around.

And not to get too far off topic here, but prices for used cars are coming down and should continue to do so due to the subprime lending bubble slowly building up in the credit markets. Avis and Hertz rely on massive debt/cash injections to purchase their billions of dollars worth of cars every year and that spigot is slowly getting turned off. This will likely bankrupt both firms and they will need to liquidate their cars. Anyway, there ought to be some great prices on good used cars as this unfolds.

I've all but given up on manual cars. My first BMW (2001 530i) was a 5-speed and while it was fun in the beginning, it began to wear on me as the years went by. In 2006 when I bought my Tacoma, I went automatic. It got to the point where both my wife and I preferred the auto to the (laborious in traffic) manual. Since then, my 2014 BMW: automatic. My (coming soon) 2017 BMW: automatic. While I would like to teach to drive a manual, odds are decent that she'll live a full, rich life never needing to row gears. I'm okay with this.

I also don't see a problem with new technology giving our young drivers a hand. Things are different today than 20, 30, 40 years ago.

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/best-cars-for-teens
http://www.bankrate.com/auto/the-7-best-cars-for-teenagers-for-2016/#slide=1
http://www.autobytel.com/car-buying-guides/features/10-good-cheap-cars-for-teenagers-under-10-000-114608/
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/ratings/vehicles-for-teens
https://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/top-10/10-best-cars-for-teen-drivers.html

I've been perusing the above links trying to figure out a good first car for her. For sure, it'll be used. IIHS likes midsize for safety reasons--quite reasonable. Toyota and Honda put out excellent, cheap cars perfect for teens. Funny, and I'm not sure why, I've always pictured her in a VW Beetle. Frankly, most manufacturers put out pretty high quality stuff in the <=$20k (new) category so I think there are a lot of choices and it may just come down to the miles and price. I think I'd like to keep her first car at <=$15k but we'll see what we find.

I should add that she will likely end up driving the 2006 Tacoma for a little while. It is high up and bit longer (it is a double-cab, long-bed) than usual. I really wanted to replace the Tacoma with a nice new Ridgeline but with college 3 years away, I'm thinking that isn't a good idea. The Tacoma only has 83k on it and is just getting broken in but I'm getting fidgety with it just wanting new gizmos (keyless entry/ignition is one the BMW has spoiled me with). The Tacoma is also perfect in that we picking up a brand new BMW soon (you could argue not a good idea but the previous BMW's lease was up and well...... :) ) and I really don't want/need two car payments.

[Mike Kreinhop]

Since things have changed from when I was that age I'm interested in hearing others' recent history approaches on cars for their teens.

I vaguely remember my reckless days as a teen, but if I had a teen who was ready to enter the driving circuit, my main concern would be occupant safety, followed closely by pedestrian safety. As a former Deputy Sheriff in Virginia, I responded to many fatal traffic accidents, some involving teens and some of those in single vehicle accidents. I strongly recommend a modern car with a great impact safety reputation, side-impact airbags, and reinforcing the use of seat and shoulder belts. I never unbuckled a dead person, but I did have to help recover pieces of ejected passengers. I think it's wise to give an inexperienced driver every advantage possible to help transition beyond the "I know everything" phase (not that I ever went through that :rolleyes:).

The machine is only one part of the new driver equation. Discretion and spacial awareness are two more factors that must be developed. One accident I worked involved a 17-year old boy who failed to comprehend the closing rate of his car and an oncoming car when he pulled out to pass a slow school bus. He sincerely thought he could pass the bus safely. He didn't, but fortunately no one was killed. I won't address the taboo subject of distracted drivers.

[Chris Padilla]

Do young drivers have any limitations/restrictions on their driver's license? Here in California, and this surprised me but ultimately I think it is a good idea, they are quite restricted in their driving until they turn 18. For example, she can't drive between 11 PM and 5 AM. She can't have any passengers in her car under the age of 20 UNLESS accompanied by a license driver who is 25 or older. However the part I don't care too much about is that she must have PROFESSIONAL (i.e. I have to pay) training that involves class time and behind-the-wheel time. I had a full-blown license when I turned 16 but this was in Colorado during the mid-80s and my Dad yelled at me to train me to drive. :)

[Wade Lippman]

Teens first car?!

I gave my son my 6 year old car as a college graduation present. He was thrilled.

[Scott DelPorte]

If you are a Ford family, a used Crown Victoria might be a good pick. They are plentiful and relatively inexpensive. Also safe in an accident.

[Matt Meiser]

Chris, I have a booklet sitting here I need to read with the rules but yes there are restrictions.

LOL on the Crown Vic...our next door neighbors oldest son got grandmas Grand Marquis a couple years ago. He's now in college and commuting to Toledo so he got a new car and their almost 16 son is getting it. With respect to Chris's question--my daughter is under the impression she'll still be able to carpool with him once he starts driving. I suggested we get a black one to be the opposite of his white one.

[Harold Balzonia]

Forget the car... buy your kid a Harley.

With a side car

that way they can't fog up the back windows at inspiration point....

[John K Jordan]

Wow, lots of people think the same!

I taught all my kids on a stick shift. A valuable skill. My son, 35, thanked me the other day for making him learn to drive a stick - he had just bought a new car with a stick shift. Also, he knows someone who had his manual-shift car stolen at a gas station. The thieves got about 2 blocks before they messed up the clutch and gave up. :-)

Before they could get their license I required each of my boys log an arbitrary 1000 miles in the car with me as passenger. I did things like put a styrofoam cup with a little water on the dash to teach them not to hot rod on starts, stops and around corners.

They had to demonstrate changing a tire, check tire pressures, and check fluids and oil. Instruction included panic stops and sudden obstacle avoidance (in a parking lot), a lot of parking including parallel parking, and constant review of the rules of the road. Important training is how to find your way around - I'd have them drive to someone

A house rule was no passengers, ever, no exceptions, until otherwise notified. This alone can save untold grief.

I think the first car should be an older, very sturdy used car. Teens are sometimes short on wisdom and need protection rather that sport and convenience. A dent or two in an old car is less painful. If the first car is a pickup truck, load the bed with weight to keep it from sliding as much on wet/slippery roads.

JKJ

[Jim Becker]

As the timing was right, we chose to keep the 2011 Subaru Outback Limited that Professor Dr. SWMBO had been driving for our daughter and get a new Outback Limited for da mamala. We knew what the condition was since we had been maintaining it for almost five years and it even had new tires. If that hadn't been the case, we likely would have bought a similar used vehicle for the purpose.

I do understand about the insurance. While rates are certainly relative to geography, we almost went from $1400 a year (top coverages all around) for two cars to nearly $4000 for three vehicles (same coverages) for three drivers with one being 16 with our previous carrier. In PA, a young driver affects all vehicles on the policy. So I did a little shopping and changed to AAA for all of our insurances. What I saved on homeowners moving from Chubb made up for a lot of the increase in the auto...which under AAA was nearly a grand lower than Progressive wanted. It's a dance...

[Jim Becker]

Do young drivers have any limitations/restrictions on their driver's license? Here in California, and this surprised me but ultimately I think it is a good idea, they are quite restricted in their driving until they turn 18.

Most states have such restrictions. In PA, under 18 cannot have more than one passenger unless it's family; cannot drive after 11pm unless it's documented for work commute, etc. (My 17 year old daughter also cannot drive into NJ next door because they do not permit 17 year olds on the road without a parent present, which means if she and friends want to go to the shore, someone else has to drive. ) Even though she graduates from High School next Tuesday and is free of the "child labor laws", she's not free of the 11pm driver curfew until mid-August right before she starts at Penn State. :) Honestly, "I" am ok with that, but she's, um...not. :D

[Jim Becker]

I taught all my kids on a stick shift. A valuable skill.
That's a tough row to hoe these days...manual transmissions are just not all that common anymore...

As to "older" cars...I don't favor going back many model years at this point because of safety concerns and reliability. But that's me. ;)

[Mac McQuinn]

Matt,
My son's first vehicle was a 1991 Ford Ranger, decent on gas, reasonably easy to repair and available until 2011. Lots of different trim levels. Full framed vehicles like the Ranger stand up reasonably well in accidents, etc. Decent vision as they sit a bit higher than a car. Parts, used and new are also reasonable as the Ranger was built for quite a few years. He tagged a tree the second year he owned it and would have been totaled if it was a car. A long weekend drilling spot-welds, a new fender, inner fender, radiator and hood put it back on the road. He learned to work on cars with this vehicle and looking back, I think he made a great choice.
Mac

[Matt Meiser]

We have talked about Rangers and the good thing is there's not much passenger room. The bad thing is winter performance (and I do not want to deal with a high mileage 4WD vehicle for sure) and they are either holding their value decent or rust buckets. And they don't just cosmetically rust. My brother had a mid-late 90's one up to a couple years ago and rear suspension mounting points were rusting off the thing. Escapes can have similar rust issues around the rear shock mounting points.

I've considered flying down to Tennessee or Georgia for a long weekend but that's a pretty considerable cost adder.

[Jim Andrew]

My friend in the car business says the 2000 to 2005 Buick Lesaber was just about the best car GM has ever built. With the 3.8 V6. Unless you get one that still has the original motor oil.

[Greg R Bradley]

Don't even consider the nonsense of a manual transmission. They are so obsolete as to be irrelevant and have been for quite some time in normal transportation. I am a car enthusiast and own a couple manual trans cars, one I bought 40+ years ago and another that is a Classic, which were all built before automatics were invented. What vehicles would be worse with an automatic? Well I own several motorcycles that would be worse with an automatic.........

[John K Jordan]

That's a tough row to hoe these days...manual transmissions are just not all that common anymore...

As to "older" cars...I don't favor going back many model years at this point because of safety concerns and reliability. But that's me. ;)

When renting a car in London the last trip I made the mistake of getting a manual transmission (a diesel). I'd always rented a automatic in previous trips. If I remember correctly, most of the cars for rent were stick shift, at least at that agency.

Boy that was a mistake. I don't have any trouble with a stick but the combination of shifting with the left hand, driving on the odd side of the road, and multi-lane roundabouts at rush hour with everyone else driving fast 'bout did me in! Next time it's back to auto. Or stick to countries like Italy where they aren't confused about which side of the road to drive on.

JKJ

[Harold Balzonia]

Interesting to me that there are a few people on the forum who consider manual transmissions nonsensical....

I guess they must have a shop full of festool equipment and probably tossed out all their hand planes, spokeshaves and marking gauges...

nothing to be learned by doing things the "old way" I guess... 😝

[Rick Potter]

All the below statements are true.

When my son turned 15 1/2 he got a permit, including motorcycles, and drove a motorcycle a couple years, because a motorcycle permit did not raise our insurance rates.

When his son turned of age, my son gave him use of his Harley for two years....same deal.

That grandson is now getting my Model T with a V-8 60 and a three speed back on the road so his younger brother and sister can learn to drive a stick shift on it. He is almost 20 now and drives a large gravel truck/trailer full time for his dad.

My oldest grand daughter (28) learned to drive in the 'T' also.

Back to the question at hand. Maybe you should consider a trip a bit farther from home. I just looked at my local CL ads under 'Crown Victoria', and found 47 available, all of which showed no rust at all. How about a grandma's 05 model with 88K miles for $3K? Or, you could consider a nice '11 police detective model with a little over 100K for $4K. If you really want to keep her safe, there were several black police models with white doors, and push bumpers available for about the same money. No one would follow close, or crowd her in that one.

[Jim Becker]

The OP has nicely asked that this conversation stay focused on "the vehicle". He's a good dad and will deal with other things accordingly. Let's just provide comments on vehicle choices and why. And that's an official request.

Jim
Forum Moderator

[Jim Becker]

Interesting to me that there are a few people on the forum who consider manual transmissions nonsensical....

It's not really that they are "nonsensical", Harold. Rather, it's a matter of very low supply of such vehicles and the increasing unlikeliness that these younger drivers will ever be faced with having to drive one. There are few manual transmission vehicles on the road at this point, at least in reasonably current model years, outside of enthusiasts' rides. The last time I had to drive one was on vacation in Ireland two decades ago, myself. And it's very unlikely that a parent will find one in a late model, used vehicle that's appropriate for a teen driver at this point.
------

Matt, on the insurance thing, I forgot to mention that while we provided the car for our daughter to drive, she's responsible for paying us $100 per month for insurance and for paying for her own gas. That's been reasonable for a high-schooler with a part time job. When she starts commuting to PSU in the late summer, we will be helping with the gas cost because commuting saves us $10K+ over her living away from home and it's going to be about 40 miles per day round trip.

[roger wiegand]

Our kids both have 5-8 year old Toyota Corollas. They are a pretty ideal car for younger kids. Small enough to maneuver and park, good gas mileage, insurance as reasonable as it gets, and extremely reliable, with relatively low repair costs.

They got their licenses at ages 19 and 23. (We were willing when they were 18, they weren't interested) The idea of a 15 year old behind the wheel is terrifying.

[Matt Meiser]

Matt,

Is it possible to insure your daughter with a "rider" on your policy. When my kids got their licenses our agent let us insure them with a rider on our policy. My son had his own car and my daughter used one of ours. The cost of the rider was a fraction of a full policy in their name.

In do remember some legality of primary driver and occasional driver status.

Been a while since I've had experience with the lovely FAFSA, but if the car is titled and registered in your name I don't think it affects the FAFSA.

On the first, that is what we'd be doing. Its still unaffordable to add a kid as a primary driver on a vehicle with full coverage and if you have 3 vehicles and 3 drivers, someone will automatically be primary on each.

On the FAFSA, I was referring to the kid's income, not ownership of the vehicle.

[Matt Meiser]

Well, I just bought a 2007 Focus Wagon for my second car. ;). It's been made clear this is MY car and in several months when she gets her regular license she will be using it but now we can get her doing her learners driving in the vehicle she will be driving and not in one of our good cars (and especially not my 400HP sedan!)

We will probably do something like Jim and others suggested with respect to gas, insurance, and maintenance. My wife and I are actually working on an inexpensive list of things she needs to buy now to set the mentality that driving is expensive.

[Shawn Pixley]

Our son got his license and a car after he graduated high school. We got him a Honda Fit due to the good gas mileage and safety. He ended up driving it from home to L.A. daily, driving through the worst intersection in the US. That gave him appropriate caution about other cars.

He was hit while stopped at a stop light. The hitting car, his car, and another car were all totalled. My son was completely unhurt. The only thing he complained about was that his slushy was spilled. When he turned 21, I taught him how to drive stick on my S2000. There was no way I was going to let him drive a powerfull sports car without a few years of driving experience. He never drove the car as a matter of course, but I thought it useful to know how to drive stick.

He has purchased his own car, with a stick. He has hands free for his phone (aftermarket).

Luckily it is pretty recent with all the important safety features. Personally, I would focus on the safety aspects. Cars like we learned on are considerably less safe than most cars today (airbags, four wheel disc brakes, anti-lock brakes, driver's stability, etc...).

[Curt Harms]

That's a tough row to hoe these days...manual transmissions are just not all that common anymore...

As to "older" cars...I don't favor going back many model years at this point because of safety concerns and reliability. But that's me. ;)

Not in the US maybe. If they have to drive overseas, the likelihood of driving a manual goes up. I did have to drive a manual Honda from Central New Jersey to JFK airport and back 2 - 6 PM with construction backups. I don't think my left leg will ever be the same:p

[Jim Becker]

Not in the US maybe. If they have to drive overseas, the likelihood of driving a manual goes up. I did have to drive a manual Honda from Central New Jersey to JFK airport and back 2 - 6 PM with construction backups. I don't think my left leg will ever be the same:p

Yes, that's true...manual transmissions are more common outside of North America.

That must have been a "fun" ride, too...'hope you weren't having to pilot the same day!

[Jason Roehl]

Not in the US maybe. If they have to drive overseas, the likelihood of driving a manual goes up. I did have to drive a manual Honda from Central New Jersey to JFK airport and back 2 - 6 PM with construction backups. I don't think my left leg will ever be the same:p


What cemented my initial manual tranny skills was what should have been a short trip to and from the mall in my dad's fairly new (at the time) '93 Mazda B2200 pickup many years ago. While I was at the mall, it snowed, it was just before Christmas, and traffic went all to heck while I was at the mall. What should have been less than 10 minutes home took about 45 minutes of stop-and-go. The situation let me get the feel for where the engagement point of the clutch was, and the slick roads forced me to get good at feathering the clutch and accelerator pedals. About a year later, I got my first car--an '87 Mercury Lynx (same as the Ford Escort) with a 5-speed and manual steering.

[Matt Meiser]

My dad bought a car for himself that was a stick when I was away at college and when I was home summers had to learn to move it but never really learned to drive it. Then I got my first real job after college in Peoria, IL and got my first new car which was a stick. I learned REAL quick how to get moving on the hills as the grocery store I shopped at was up a hill with a funky light arrangement that pretty much guaranteed stopping on the hill. The last thing I drove that was a stick was a beater pickup we briefly owned in the early 2000's before I realized we were way better off owning a trailer to tow behind our minivan than a 3rd vehicle.

[Bruce Wrenn]

One thing ALL parents need to do is to teach their kids to BACK IN PARK. Backing in, the driver controls the traffic. How many new misses have you had some idiot darts between you and the cars parked behind you while blowing the horn? Most commercial leases, and insurance requires back in parking where permitted. As a side note, I want a water spray on back of car when it's in reverse for those idiots who insist on walking behind your car when your are backing out of a space at Walmart.

[Ken Combs]

Those older cars are long gone here, literally...they've rusted away to nothing! That causes a dilemma here because even mid-2000's cars, many are starting to rust, and its than just cosmeticissues as rusted rocker panels and the like affect the structural integrity of the vehicle in an accident.
Matt, I'm late to this party but the quote above caught my attention. My kids are way way past the new driver stage, but if I were in your position I would search OK, NM, part of TX and AZ for an older car/pickup of my liking. Then take a family vacation to purchase. Your choice, drive it back using two drivers, or rent a car hauler trailer from Uhaul. You can get a literally rustfree vehicle in any of those places and others I'm sure. Not only will the body be pristine but the undercarriage, springs, brakes etc will be also.

Doing this will net a better vehicle and probably a better price. Yeah, you do have the trip to consider, but its' cost is offset, at least in my mind, by the shared family experience and after all, you need a vc anyway. I've used that logic to justify a few purchases from surrounding states.

that's worth a bunch when it comes time to do brakes etc.

[Matt Meiser]

Ken, I considered that but the cost of the trip would have killed any savings. Even concurrent with a family vacation, we couldn't tow a vehicle with either of ours so we'd have to rent something and that introduces a bunch of issues and costs.

My dad did this a few times. Back in the 80's and 90's North American would ship a car in an enclosed hauler for as little as a few hundred bucks. He bought cars in GA, TN, and SD. The last we were on vacation and went into town to buy ice. He came back with a bag of ice and a verbal deal to buy a car.

[Brian Elfert]

My brother found that a late model Honda minivan was several thousand less in the south than in the Midwest. He drove the family down to Florida and back to get a minivan. I don't think he really saved any money after paying for the trip, but he got a car not exposed to salt. He drove his wife's really old car that died in Georgia and had to rent a car for the rest of the trip.