American Holly

[Harold Wright]

Have any of you turned bowls from American Holly? I have a log that could produce several bowls

[Dennis Ford]

It turns very nicely, can be bland unless spalted or decorated.

[John Keeton]

Not withstanding the relative commonality of holly, actually getting one's hands on some is not so common. I would not do bowls from it. Aside from its whiteness, it has little character and doesn't dye well. It is, however, some of the greatest wood to turn I have experienced. It is great for finials and pedestals, or accents with contrasting woods. It is also very expensive if purchased.

[John K Jordan]

Have any of you turned bowls from American Holly? I have a log that could produce several bowls

I haven't turned bowls from holly but almost everything else. :) Mostly spindles such as tops, magic wands, conductor's batons. A friend use to use it a lot on his rose engine since it takes fine detail well. As sir Keeton mentioned, it is wonderful for finials such as for Christmas ornaments. I haven't tried this, but one friend dyes it black as a substitute for ebony - I thought he said he uses india ink but I'd have to ask. Kids love to decorate holly turnings with colored markers.

Holly finished with Mylands friction polish looks a bit like ivory. Here are a couple of wands with carved handles, walnut and holly. One handbell ornament is holly with a cocobolo handle.

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When I get holly log sections I generally cut it into spindle blanks from 1"x1" to 4"x4" or so and a few larger blocks depending on the size of the log. Most of the larger pieces I have now came from logs about 18" in diameter from about 10 years ago, fairly large logs for holly.

Holly is one of my favorite woods to turn since it is so fine and cuts cleanly. Small turnings rarely need sandpaper coarser than 600 grit. (Dogwood is another favorite, turns cleanly like holly but is much heavier, stronger, and over twice as hard on the Janka scale.)

The problem with holly from a log is it may be difficult to keep white. I've read and participated in a number of discussions about this and the bottom line seems to be that air drying it is hit-or-miss and no one can provide a guaranteed recipe. Kiln drying may be more successful. I have shelves of dry and drying holly and it ranges from pure white to greyish or greenish. The method of processing and drying conditions were the same but something was different (the tree itself?) The largest logs I've had made some of the whitest wood. I once experimented with trying to spalt holly and it turned out fairy ugly and with no black zone lines.

I know people who turn holly with grey stain then use a 2-part wood bleach to make it white.

I personally would rather turn bowls from maple or cherry and save the holly for spindles and detailed work. You wanna do some trading? :)

JKJ

[John Keeton]

I use black lacquer on it and it will pass for ebony. As JKJ said, it will take color, but when I commented it does not dye well, I was referring to the appearance. Given its blandness - very little visible grain and rarely any figure at all, when dyed it is just not attractive at all IMO. So, either finished clear or black usually are the choices, except perhaps on something like a small top as mentioned.

[John K Jordan]

I use black lacquer on it and it will pass for ebony. ...either finished clear or black usually are the choices...

John,

I think holly is attractive with a clear finish. For the black, do you spray or brush on the black lacquer? I tried some black leather dye once and it did make it black but I didn't think it looked much like ebony. Maybe if I run out of ebony some day... (For now I have plenty of 1" squares of gaboon ebony, some 20-40" in length - when you stop to visit take a piece to accompany a platter blank. :) )

A bit more off topic: I'm wondering if the lacquered holly still looks like wood or more like plastic. A problem I've had, and John Lucas told me the same thing, was black ebony with a smooth and polished surface looks and feels like cheap black plastic! I turned some small items, tops and a turned/carved wand, buffed to a gloss. The finish was perfect as was the appearance of plastic. Converting to a satin finish with pumice and steel wool looked a lot better. Some of the 1" stock has streaks of brown with obvious figure. I haven't turned any yet but one friend was glad to get a piece for that reason.

Even further out in left field: For ebony lovers, this is quite disturbing:
http://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/ebony-dark-outlook-dark-woods/
I think I have all the Red-listed species on my shelves, making me part of the problem. When my ebony stock is all gone maybe I'll go to persimmon, also a Diospyros and wonderful for turning. It grows like weeds around here!

JKJ

[John Keeton]

I use Behlen's satin black spray lacquer. One needs to hold back from the piece to avoid heavy coats as they will fill the detail cuts if sprayed too close. But, the result is quite pleasing and still looks like wood. I like contrast in my turnings, both in color and sheen, so I like the satin finish on the finials/pedestals with a gloss sheen on the form.

Behlen's is available at Packard, and other sources, as well.

http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/125716-img.jpg
Oh, and thanks for the offer on the ebony!

[Shawn Pachlhofer]

I haven't turned bowls from holly but almost everything else. :) Mostly spindles such as tops, magic wands, conductor's batons. A friend use to use it a lot on his rose engine since it takes fine detail well. As sir Keeton mentioned, it is wonderful for finials such as for Christmas ornaments. I haven't tried this, but one friend dyes it black as a substitute for ebony - I thought he said he uses india ink but I'd have to ask. Kids love to decorate holly turnings with colored markers.

Holly finished with Mylands friction polish looks a bit like ivory. Here are a couple of wands with carved handles, walnut and holly. One handbell ornament is holly with a cocobolo handle.

361521 361522 361523

When I get holly log sections I generally cut it into spindle blanks from 1"x1" to 4"x4" or so and a few larger blocks depending on the size of the log. Most of the larger pieces I have now came from logs about 18" in diameter from about 10 years ago, fairly large logs for holly.

Holly is one of my favorite woods to turn since it is so fine and cuts cleanly. Small turnings rarely need sandpaper coarser than 600 grit. (Dogwood is another favorite, turns cleanly like holly but is much heavier, stronger, and over twice as hard on the Janka scale.)

The problem with holly from a log is it may be difficult to keep white. I've read and participated in a number of discussions about this and the bottom line seems to be that air drying it is hit-or-miss and no one can provide a guaranteed recipe. Kiln drying may be more successful. I have shelves of dry and drying holly and it ranges from pure white to greyish or greenish. The method of processing and drying conditions were the same but something was different (the tree itself?) The largest logs I've had made some of the whitest wood. I once experimented with trying to spalt holly and it turned out fairy ugly and with no black zone lines.

I know people who turn holly with grey stain then use a 2-part wood bleach to make it white.

I personally would rather turn bowls from maple or cherry and save the holly for spindles and detailed work. You wanna do some trading? :)

JKJ

I have read that the time of year a holly is harvested and subsequent handling has a lot to do with the finished look of the wood.

To get the “whitest” wood, it should be harvested in winter,exposed to as little UV rays as possible, then cut into lumber and kiln dried...at least that’s what I’ve read.

[Robert Henrickson]

A bit more off topic: I'm wondering if the lacquered holly still looks like wood or more like plastic. A problem I've had, and John Lucas told me the same thing, was black ebony with a smooth and polished surface looks and feels like cheap black plastic! I turned some small items, tops and a turned/carved wand, buffed to a gloss. The finish was perfect as was the appearance of plastic. Converting to a satin finish with pumice and steel wool looked a lot better. Some of the 1" stock has streaks of brown with obvious figure. I haven't turned any yet but one friend was glad to get a piece for that reason.


I used some holly for tops for hollowed Christmas ornaments. One of my father's caregivers saw it and asked "Why did you use plastic?" I said it was "holly wood". She had a completely blank look ("Hollywood"?), so I then said "wood from a holly tree". It was remarkably clear and white holly, and had a satin finish.

[Robert Henrickson]

I have read that the time of year a holly is harvested and subsequent handling has a lot to do with the finished look of the wood. To get the “whitest” wood, it should be harvested in winter,exposed to as little UV rays as possible, then cut into lumber and kiln dried...at least that’s what I’ve read.

I think it varies tremendously from tree to tree and must be dependent on specific conditions in all stages of the process. My best white holly is from a tree cut down in midsummer. I cut it into billets the day it was cut, and simply stacked it with stickers in my basement (fairly cool, dry). It may be the cutting into billets within hours of the tree being taken down helped, but perhaps also the cool/dry conditions where it was stacked.

[Reed Gray]

I did get a holly tree years ago that was supposed to be 100 years old, about 14 inch diameter. It had lots of black and a lot of olive green color running through it. I have never seen anything like it since. Other than that, most of it is white, and it tends to have lots of branches/knots in it.

robo hippy

[robert baccus]

Holly is difficult to spalt(when you want it to) but can be stunning with black line and colors at times. Sometimes a white bowl can be attractive if not too plain in shape.

[Peter Blair]

Great question and the timing couldn't have been better. Yesterday I pick up a load of Holly myself and I am now wondering what is the best way to try to preserve it for future turning. I do have some small pieces in my shop I gathered 30 years ago. I just cut it to length and stored in my shop and much of it is checked but I was able to get quite a few 12" to 16" 3/4 x 3/4 pieces from it. The only thing I ever turned from it was a baby rattle gift and that was 30 years ago and all I remember is how nice the rattle sound was with captured rings and how wonderfully it turned. I wish they were removing the stump! It looks like it has wonderful surprises!

I'm guessing that I do the usual. Try to remove the pith as best I can and then coat the end grain and knots with Anchorseal.

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[John Keeton]

I have also had the best luck processing the log into spindle size pieces - culling as many of the defects and knots as possible. I stickered mine in the barn to dry and most all of it is very white.

[Toby Bouder]

A piece of holly that I dyed came out pretty nice.

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[Wes Ramsey]

I turned a bowl last year from a holly stump. Still have a big chunk of it, but haven't gotten around to doing anything with it yet. The stump had more color than the trunk, but still pretty bland so I dyed it black and sanded back to pop the grain. Doesn't have any depth to it, but there's more figure than you'd imagine. The finish is Beall buffed homebrew Danish oil.

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[John Keeton]

Wes and Toby - both of your pieces are very nice. Toby was fortunate to get into some figure - rare for holly in my experience. Wes, the stump wood shows quite a bit of color and contrast. Looks like it may have benefited from a bunch of bark inclusions, and perhaps some early fungus growth, both of which gave it some nice character. These are clear exceptions to what holly typically looks like.

[Wes Ramsey]

Wes and Toby - both of your pieces are very nice. Toby was fortunate to get into some figure - rare for holly in my experience. Wes, the stump wood shows quite a bit of color and contrast. Looks like it may have benefited from a bunch of bark inclusions, and perhaps some early fungus growth, both of which gave it some nice character. These are clear exceptions to what holly typically looks like.

Correct. The holly stumps sat on the ground at my mom's house for about a year before I had the opportunity to take them home. They were not really punky, but there wasn't anything I could do for the tearout besides sand it off. I made a flap wheel to sand the inside as normal sanding wouldn't have taken it down far enough.

She also has a large crepe myrtle stump for me, but left it in the ground until I could come pull it out. Hopefully this summer...

[Peter Blair]

Thanks John. I am going back tomorrow for the 'stump'. I cut it into blanks today and waxes one end. Will do the other end tomorrow and then try to find a dry place under my deck where it is quite airy and sticker it as best I can. I sure got a lot of blanks but I didn't spend too much time culling the defects. I'm feeling that whatever checks will still make a nice warm fire when my wife and I are away in our or RV!

[John K Jordan]

Thanks John. I am going back tomorrow for the 'stump'. I cut it into blanks today and waxes one end. Will do the other end tomorrow and then try to find a dry place under my deck where it is quite airy and sticker it as best I can. I sure got a lot of blanks but I didn't spend too much time culling the defects. I'm feeling that whatever checks will still make a nice warm fire when my wife and I are away in our or RV!

Do you have any space indoors to put the blanks? I mostly keep mine on wire shelves. Indoors might help keep the power post beetles out of it.

JKJ

[Peter Blair]

John you are a terrific resource. Thanks for all the help and especially the other thread about prepping blanks. I don't have space inside unfortunately and will just have to keep my fingers crossed and hope I avoid PPB's.

[Richard Dooling]

Toby,

Could you please tell me what you used for the green dye on your bowls.

That some of the nicest green I've seen in a while. I always find green to be one of the more difficult colors to dye with successfully. I've had good results with red, yellow and orange but green and blue always seem dull.

[Toby Bouder]

Toby,

Could you please tell me what you used for the green dye on your bowls.

That some of the nicest green I've seen in a while. I always find green to be one of the more difficult colors to dye with successfully. I've had good results with red, yellow and orange but green and blue always seem dull.

Hi, Richard. I used transtint dye mixed with water and apply with a small brush. When I want green I usually put on a coat of yellow first, let that dry, and then put on light coats of blue (drying between) until I get the shade I want. Of course it's somewhat hard to judge because the finish makes it appear different than the pastel color of the dried dye. Hope this helps, it's always somewhat of a crap shoot.
Toby

[John K Jordan]

... I don't have space inside unfortunately and will just have to keep my fingers crossed and hope I avoid PPB's.

I'd have to check, but I think you can spray or brush on a treatment to prevent beetles from infesting the wood. (Borax based?) If PPBs are suspected to be already in the wood the recommended treatment is heat.

Good clean fun!

JKJ