Worth Saving? Stanley / Bailey #8C

[Sean McCurdy]

Hey all,

Getting started on restoring a bunch of planes I've picked up over the years. One of them is a Bailey #8C. However, I just noticed that there is a cupped wear right in front of the mouth. At it's deepest, I measure 25 thou. Will this significantly affect the operation of the plane? Worth continuing the restoration?

Planes I'm working on:
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The #8C is the 2nd from the right.

Plane showing dishing in front of mouth:

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Note that the front of the plane is at the top

Flattened and polished (excluding the dished area):

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[Stew Denton]

Sean,

In short, YES IT IS WORTH SAVING and continuing with the restoration. The #8 size is not all that common, and usually bring a pretty fair price on that auction site. I couldn't tell which plane you are working on from the picture, but am assuming it is the 2nd on from the right, since the plane on the far right is a Stanley Bed Rock. As you probably already know, if the 2nd plane from the right is the Stanley Bailey, and is a post 1900 plane, then the lever cap is from a different plane, but if it works fine that is all that matters for a user.

You might take a couple more pictures of the plane up close, such as the patent dates behind the frog, etc. All three of your big jointer planes look very restorable from what I can see from you photos, but closer pictures would help, because some models are more desirable than others. In my view, your Bed Rock is as good as you can possibly get, model wise, and is extremely desirable for restoration.

Beyond that however, the older Baileys are also highly desirable, IMHO, and especially those made from roughly 1900 to about 1930 or so. Of those, the ones I like best are the type 10s, through probably the type 14s or so, but for me, any #8 Bailey or Bedrock from that era is going to be very much worth restoring, if in restorable condition, assuming any missing parts aren't at a terribly price.

Beyond that, Jim (and others) likes even earlier Stanley Bailey planes, and know how to adjust the older ones better than I can with all kinds of sturr.

Stew

[Jim Koepke]

+1 on what Stew said, it can still be a good jointer even with a little dishing in front of the mouth.

My #5-1/2 has a bit of wear in the same area. Still does a good job.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

25 mils (1/40") is about 0.6 mm. IMO you probably don't want to try to flatten that out, as you'll lose more sole than it's worth. If you do decide to flatten it anyway then you might want to look up somebody like Tablesaw Tom who can/will do it with a surface grinder, as it will take forever to remove that much by hand.

I agree with the others who've pointed out that a flat just ahead of the mouth isn't as important in a jointer like the #8 as it is in size that is primarily used for smoothing, like a #4. Just be aware that you'll have to rely mostly on the cap-iron set to control tearout (which you should be doing anyway IMO). By the same token, there's absolutely no point in trying to set this plane's mouth tight when fettling, because if the sole in front of the mouth doesn't engage the wood then the mouth accomplishes nothing other than to trap shavings.

[Eric Keller]

Tom isn't grinding soles any more, unfortunately

[lowell holmes]

I would look for a machine shop to grind it.

[steven c newman]

DON"T have that sole ground...period! That area is VERY THIN as it is. You would run the risk of something far worse than a slight hollow...
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DAMHIKT..

#8c Type 9

[Pat Barry]

Its really not clear where the recessed area is. Without knowing that I don't see how anyone can tell you what to do other than to leave it alone. Maybe you could highlight the outline of the problem spot with a marker and then put a mark to show where the deepest spot is and post another picture or two. Otherwise, unless the deepest dip is actually right at the edge of the mouth I would leave well enough alone. - edit -- check that, Id still leave it alone.

[Sean McCurdy]

So, a correction. My notes were off, the hollow is 2.5 thou, or .06 mm. My bad!

I have a 3hp Acme edge sander with a flat platten 26" long. Checking with a Veritas precision straight edge it's producing flat results, so that's the method I'm using to rough them close with 80 grit.

If it's hard to see, but the recess is the crescent area in the 2nd pic just above (in front of) the mouth. My worry is that will encourage the wood to chip out in front of the blade, hence the question

Yes, it is the second plane from the right. The 608C on the far right is in rough, but salvagable shape. Electrolysis rust removal is amazing, but the hardware is beyond fixing. Thursday I'll be going to a buddy's place to weld on nuts in order to get a couple of the screws out to remove the frog. I'll add some additional pics shortly

[Sean McCurdy]

As promised, some additional pictures.

The patent dates of the #8C:
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The frog of the #8:
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The 608C as it stands today, soaking in PB blaster, waiting to weld on some nuts to remove the frog screws:
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The back of the 608C frog, showing how trashed the screws are. This is roughly the texture of the whole plane before I did the electrolysis bath.
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The blade and breaker on the 608C:
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Tonight's progress of cleaning up the bottoms. The 8C needs a bit more time to get the rust out of the grooves, but it's at least flat.
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[Kees Heiden]

2 thou? Some 120 grit on a glassplate and when you feel very fastidiuos, finish with some 240.

Nice plane.

[Jim Koepke]

The blade and breaker on the 608C:

I have seen some planes in bad condition before. That one looks like it was salvaged from a sunken boat.

jtk

[Sean McCurdy]

I wish I had the story of how it got that bad.

[Robert Engel]

The dish around the mouth is bad news. With nothing to loose I would put it on a belt sander.

If you use a machine shop, likely it will cost more than the plane is worth.

[Pete Taran]

100% agree with Kees. .002" is nothing to remove with the right grit sandpaper. Plus, you don't have as much surface area as a regular #8 because of the corrugations. Try SC paper and mineral spirits glued to something very flat. You can put on some Dykem in the offending area to gauge your progress. There is no way to control a belt sander...you are asking for trouble there.

[Jim Koepke]

There is no way to control a belt sander...you are asking for trouble there.

One problem with a belt sander is some will tend to move the plane back and forth while using the belt sander. This can end up leaving the middle of the plane dished.

Even with sandpaper on a flat surface one has to be careful for the build up of the sanding debris. It can build up in the center and cause slight rocking to mess up the work at hand.

Since sole flattening is usually done with the plane fully set up to put it in tension, why not try using the plane to see if it really needs fixing before "fixing it?"

jtk

[Pat Barry]

I see the dip you are referring to and it looks to be more than 0.0025" and less than 0.025". I don't think grinding the bottom to try and flatten out the dip is worthwhile - steven pointed out an issue with the material thickness. Question for all, since it is dished / dipped down, how did it get that way? Can it be pushed back (carefully) from the other side?
See picture for my interpretation of your dip - red line highlights the edge of the mouth and shows the dip. The black squiggly line is the total affected area as best I can judge from your picture.
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[steven c newman]

First off, both the #8 and a the 608 are Jointers, not intended to make them see-through shavings. The beds are long for a reason, that little "dip" might just be from wear. Sharpen the thing up and put it to work....

[Kees Heiden]

No you can't push cast steel around. It's very brittle.

It's wear, that plane has been used a lot.

[lowell holmes]

It's probably not appropriate, cast iron can be repaired by brazing in some instances.

Just thought I would mention it.

[Stewie Simpson]

Gents; its a double iron plane. The very shallow wear pattern in front of the mouth shouldn't effect the planes performance.

[Patrick Chase]

100% agree with Kees. .002" is nothing to remove with the right grit sandpaper. Plus, you don't have as much surface area as a regular #8 because of the corrugations. Try SC paper and mineral spirits glued to something very flat. You can put on some Dykem in the offending area to gauge your progress. There is no way to control a belt sander...you are asking for trouble there.

As Pete and Kees point out, the course of treatment is VERY different at 2 mils as opposed to 25.

At 25 it's a salvage job, assuming that you're determined to make it flat. At 2 it's pretty easy, and arguably not necessary anyway. My OCD-ish tendencies force me to flatten everything in sight, but plenty of people do excellent work with planes that are out by more than 2 mils.

[Patrick Chase]

Gents; its a double iron plane. The very shallow wear pattern in front of the mouth shouldn't effect the planes performance.

This is right.

[lowell holmes]

In retrospect, I would just sand the sole a bit and use it.