ECE Primus Plane Lateral Adjustment

[Steven Mikes]

Dear All,

I am just starting on trying to learn basic wood working. I build a simple work bench and bought an ECE Primus jointer plane off E-Bay to flatten the top. I searched online and found some information about how to set up and adjust the blade properly, but I still can't get it to work correctly.

I attempted to follow the directions, which say that during initial blade setup the blade will contact the plane body on the left side. I tightened the nut on the regulator until the blade just pulls away, then advance the blade to cutting depth and finally adjust the regulator until the blade is straight. My problem is that the blade keeps going askew after just 1 or 2 passes, gouging one corner into the surface I'm working on. Does anyone have enough experience with these planes to tell me what I'm doing wrong?

[Patrick Chase]

Dear All,

I am just starting on trying to learn basic wood working. I build a simple work bench and bought an ECE Primus jointer plane off E-Bay to flatten the top. I searched online and found some information about how to set up and adjust the blade properly, but I still can't get it to work correctly.

I attempted to follow the directions, which say that during initial blade setup the blade will contact the plane body on the left side. I tightened the nut on the regulator until the blade just pulls away, then advance the blade to cutting depth and finally adjust the regulator until the blade is straight. My problem is that the blade keeps going askew after just 1 or 2 passes, gouging one corner into the surface I'm working on. Does anyone have enough experience with these planes to tell me what I'm doing wrong?

Snarky answer: Using a Primus. I love my ECE planes (I have 2) but they're both classic tap-to-adjust designs. I'm not a fan of the Primus adjuster, as it's alway struck me as a lot of complexity to solve "problems" that become nonissues with a tiny bit of practice.

Real answer: Sounds like you need to either tighten more or do something to reduce the cutting forces (shallower cut, sharper blade, camber, etc).

[lowell holmes]

Dear All,

I am just starting on trying to learn basic wood working. I build a simple work bench and bought an ECE Primus jointer plane off E-Bay to flatten the top. I searched online and found some information about how to set up and adjust the blade properly, but I still can't get it to work correctly.

I attempted to follow the directions, which say that during initial blade setup the blade will contact the plane body on the left side. I tightened the nut on the regulator until the blade just pulls away, then advance the blade to cutting depth and finally adjust the regulator until the blade is straight. My problem is that the blade keeps going askew after just 1 or 2 passes, gouging one corner into the surface I'm working on. Does anyone have enough experience with these planes to tell me what I'm doing wrong?


You might try tightening the hex nut to increase pressure on the iron. Don't be timid.

[Patrick Chase]

You might try tightening the hex nut to increase pressure on the iron. Don't be timid.

Lowell is right of course.

You might also consider cambering or rounding the corners of the blade, if your sharpening technique is up to it. Doing that will eliminate the "hard" corner that is probably catching and twisting the blade.

[Allen Jordan]

I concur with tightening the regulator bolt. I camber the blade in my ece primus jack.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Steven and welcome to the Creek.

Not being familiar with the ECE Primus planes my answer reverts back to the physics of hand planes in general.

As others have mentioned, the blade should not be able to move in use which requires force from the wedge or lever cap (or in the case of the ECE Primus the regulator bolt?) to hold the blade in a fixed position.

On planes with a Bailey style adjuster the setting needs to be enough to prevent the blade from moving in use while still allowing for adjustment. When it gets to the actual situation the difference can be as little as 1/16th of a turn on the screw holding the lever cap.

An old post of mine may help, it is in the secret archives:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?103805-Neanderthal-wisdom-FAQs

Scroll down to section 4 and click on "Getting Started in Hand Planes" it is based on Stanley/Bailey planes but applies to other makes and kinds of planes.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

I suspect you haven't tightened the black knob at the rear snug enough. Also, be sure that the orientation of the draw bolt is proper; if it's upside down it'll drive you nuts (DAMHIKT).

I never thought the hex nut had anything to do with the blade security. It is only there to form a pivot point so the regulator can push off the sides of the plane body. It's the tension imparted by the rear knob that resists unintentional skew.

I love those planes, but what a pain to resharpen. It's like taking a gun apart.

[Stewie Simpson]

An overly complex design.

https://www.qy1.de/img/ece1be.jpg

This is what our customer Peter Austin in Devon, UK wrote:After taking it apart, I have only just realised how it works. The instructions tell you how to adjust the plane, but not why it works. The diagram is clear, but again, there is no explanation as to why it works. I think that E.C.E. have assumed that "Well, there is a clear diagram, it's obvious how it works. It's a brilliant plane, we will just wait for the orders to come in".


The give-away that there is some shortfall in customer knowledge is an extra piece of paper included in the package headed "Additional instructions to adjust the plane iron parallel to the sole". But, again, they do not tell you why you should need to do this except that you need to do this after turning the tensioning screw nut.
If you'd like to be bored, please read on. I shall attempt to explain how this plane works - if only to get it clear in my mind:
Look at the diagram on the above web page headed "Operation Instructions for the E.C.E. Primus plane".
At the back of the plane body, there is a knob. The knob is attached to a piece of steel that is in turn attached to the plane blade via the chipbreaker. The piece of steel is always in tension - through the use of a large spring just behind the knob - and is trying to pull the plane blade back against the blade-bed. However, since the blade-bed is at 50 degrees, the effect of this tension is to force the plane blade upwards away from the plane-base. This is where the chromed adjusting knob comes into play. This is attached to a threaded rod whose far end presses down onto the piece of steel under tension.

There is enough vertical give in the assembly to allow the chromed adjusting knob to raise and lower the blade. The clever trick is that this assembly is always in tension and so there can never be any backlash ie. slack. After a number of turns of the chromed adjusting knob, the tension in the piece of steel attached to the blade needs to be adjusted so as to keep the system in equilibrium. https://www.fine-tools.com/G301047.html

[Jim Koepke]

There is enough vertical give in the assembly to allow the chromed adjusting knob to raise and lower the blade. The clever trick is that this assembly is always in tension and so there can never be any backlash ie. slack.

This seems like a lot of extra fiddling just to be rid of backlash.

How much of a hassle is it to set up after sharpening a blade?

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

An overly complex design.

Indeed. As an engineer I have a higher than average tolerance for complex gadgetry, but that design manages to offend even my sensibilities.

It's a pity IMO, because I think that ECE makes solid, cost-effective, and ethically sourced (i.e. not made by slave labor) planes. I've tried the Primus versions a couple times and I always end up going with their classic adjuster-less designs instead. While I have no qualms about tapping my irons to adjust, I think that their potential market in the US would be larger if they went with something like a Norris adjuster, that gets the job done with relatively low complexity.

[Steven Mikes]

I suspect you haven't tightened the black knob at the rear snug enough. Also, be sure that the orientation of the draw bolt is proper; if it's upside down it'll drive you nuts (DAMHIKT).

I never thought the hex nut had anything to do with the blade security. It is only there to form a pivot point so the regulator can push off the sides of the plane body. It's the tension imparted by the rear knob that resists unintentional skew.

I love those planes, but what a pain to resharpen. It's like taking a gun apart.

lol I did have the truss rod upside down at first, took me awhile to figure that out. You're correct though, the nut is just a pivot for the regulator. I tried last night tightening it more but that doesn't prevent the blade from twisting back and forth if I torque it from the top by hand. I made the back knob moderately tight but I'll try increasing the tension when I get home and give it one more try. If I can't get it to work I might give up and sell it, and buy their not-needlessly-complicated model because I do like the length and feel of the wooden body.

Thanks all for the comments!

[Prashun Patel]

I have the jack and the smoother. Both work extremely well. While the design my offend some, I find them both to be high quality performers. So much, that I strongly considered a Primus jointer.

I experience no blade backlash on these planes.

FWIW, I experienced none of the skew issues that the OP did.

The only issue for me is keeping the spring from rolling off the bench as you unthread the rear knob and remove the bolt. Oh yeah, and there are two washers buried in there that try to jump off my bench into the dust bin as well.

I have to say that despite their set up troubles, I still reach for the Primus jack because it is quite a joy to work with as a scrub or roughing plane.

[Steven Mikes]

Update: I ended up selling the Primus and got the simpler wedged one. Much better!

[Patrick Chase]

Update: I ended up selling the Primus and got the simpler wedged one. Much better!

So your wedged ECE works fine but your Mujingfang doesn't?

Knowing that changes things a bit in the other thread...

[george wilson]

I hated the adjustment system on a Primus plane I bought for the toolmaker's shop. I never did use that plane. And,I actually gave away an Ulmia plane that I'd bought before I came to Williamsburg back in the 60's. Gave it to the wheelwright. He was Austrian anyway. So,I guess was more fond of those designs than I was.

[Charles Guest]

The Primus' bed is made to contact the cutter on three points, since three points define a plane. The bolt and other items have to be installed correctly and tightened to make this work. I have a PDF I can upload that might help though I'll have to scrounge for it. It explains all of this much better than I could. It's a brilliant, but subtle design.

[Peter Pedisich]

The Primus' bed is made to contact the cutter on three points, since three points define a plane. The bolt and other items have to be installed correctly and tightened to make this work. I have a PDF I can upload that might help though I'll have to scrounge for it. It explains all of this much better than I could. It's a brilliant, but subtle design.

I would be interested in this PDF !

[Gene Pavlovsky]

The only issue for me is keeping the spring from rolling off the bench as you unthread the rear knob and remove the bolt. Oh yeah, and there are two washers buried in there that try to jump off my bench into the dust bin as well.


You're creating an extra hassle for yourself by unthreading that rear nut. It should be loosened but left on. See step 2 in the instructions from ECE:

Removing the plane iron
1. Turn the adjustment screw backward a few turns.
2. Loosen the tension screw nut at the back of the plane body (Do not remove).
3. With your fingers, take hold of the opposite end of the tension screw in the chip box and turn it 90°.
4. Lift the lower end of the plane iron off the tension screw and gently draw the iron out of the body of the plane.

Full instructions in English can be found on ECE's website: https://ecemmerich.de/wp-content/uploads/Operating-Instructions-for-the-E.C.E-PRIMUS-Plane-english.pdf

[Gene Pavlovsky]

As for the OP's problem, we should keep in mind the following paragraph from the instructions:
A truss is formed: tensioning rod pin plus canted bed pulls the cutter edge left while the regulator pushes the iron to the right. This truss prevents any lateral movement. It assures an even chip ribbon. – Tighten the tension screw nut more, if necessary, to retain parallelism during use.

So the first thing to try would be to tighten the big nut at the rear a bit more. If it's not easy to tighten, you can back off the top adjustment screw to retract the iron, tighten the rear nut a bit more, then advance the iron once again.

The instructions don't mention the nut that holds the regulator lever to the cap iron. However, as mentioned previously in this thread, it also plays a role. It should be reasonably tight, just loose enough that the regulator can actually be turned. The toothed washer under the nut provides some friction. It's through that friction that the regulator can actually push the iron to the right. If the nut is too loose, the regulator can't do it's job. I assume they tighten this nut appropriately at the factory, but in case it was mis-adjusted, or perhaps it was disassembled by the user, it might need further tightening.

Finally, with a deep cut and/or a dull iron, the forces involved may be too much for the adjusting mechanism to keep position.

To summarize: sharpen the iron, don't take too deep cuts, tighten the rear tensioning nut, check tightness of the regulator nut.

[Jim Koepke]

Hopefully this helps Steven to get his plane working. It has only been four and a half years…

Maybe today in the shop my Stanley/Bailey planes will be given a pat on the cheek and a little thanks for their simplicity.

jtk

[Gene Pavlovsky]

Jim, I appreciate your sarcasm :)

My info won't help Steven, who had sold his Primus in 2017, but it might help other people with similar issues - considering that this thread is one of the first results, when searching Google for: ECE Primus adjustment

Stanley/Bailey planes may be called simple in terms of adjustment or removing the iron for sharpening, but overall they have more individual parts than a Primus plane, so I wouldn't call them entirely simple.
In terms of simplicity, the traditional wooden-bodied wedge type planes are the simplest of them all.

Anyway, I'm not here to advocate for or against Primus or any other plane. All types of good quality planes work very well, when properly set up. I just wanted to share what I know about how the Primus planes are adjusted.

The Primus English Pattern Jack (model 741P, with Lignum Vitae sole) that I have was a birthday gift from my parents a few years ago, and I'm using it and liking it a lot.
I learned rather quickly how to adjust it, and I do enjoy it's backlash-free adjustment (not that backlash bothers me much on my Stanley planes, but it is nicer without backlash).
Having said that, if I would be looking to buy a jointer, I would get a regular wedge-type ECE Jointer (model 101S) which is 25% cheaper than the Primus model, and works just as well.

P.S. I've noticed that ECE planes with Lignum Vitae sole have disappeared from most stores. I've been told by Dieter Schmid Fine Tools that "Currently Guaiacum wood is not available on world wood market. That‘s why ECE can’t produce planes with this kind of wood at the moment."

[Thomas Wilson]

I have a Primus smooth plane that must have been purchased before ECE saw the need for the extra page of adjustment instruction. That post is helpful to elucidate ECE’s design intent. I figured out the adjustment procedure pretty quickly from trial and error. I would add for those who come across these planes in the garage sales that the bed is 50 degrees in contrast to Stanley, Sargent, Miller Falls, etc. that are all 45. The chrome vanadium blade edge durability benefits from a slightly steeper secondary bevel particularly on hard woods like maple and oak.

In use, with a really sharp blade, the steeper bed angle, and the precise fine adjustment afforded by the Primus mechanism, you can smooth very hard, squirrelly grain that other planes have more difficulty with.

[Jim Koepke]

My info won't help Steven, who had sold his Primus in 2017, but it might help other people with similar issues - considering that this thread is one of the first results, when searching Google for: ECE Primus adjustment

Gene, you are right about the sarcasm. It is often a thought we should be thinking about people who will find these posts in the future.

From the time of my post it indicates it was made before my morning breakfast & coffee. My mind tends to be more in tune after those two daily events.

Sometimes the simplicity of use requires a few extra components. Then again it can all be in the eye of the user. Most of my molding planes have only three parts: body, blade and wedge. They may be simpler than a Stanley/Bailey plane, but usually not as easy to get working for a beginner.

jtk