New (to me) D8

[Kevin Smira]

Growing up, there were a few things I could count on. 1) playing catch with my dads autographed Mickey Mantle baseball 2) helping my granddaddy bale hay in the summer and 3) playing with my great grandfathers saw. At the time, I had no idea what it was, except that it was a saw and it belong to my fathers grandfather. Today, my dad brought to to me. I knew he was going to bring it when he came over for baseball today, but I had no idea what it was besides "a saw" and neither did my dad. He brought it over and after baseball, I did a little internet aleuthing. According to the interwebs and the medallion/number of screws, the saw dates from 1896-1917. It has a very good etch on it, and needs some cleaning and handle rehab, but it will definitely be a user for me and my kids. The only "odd" thing I see is that it has "11" stamped into the lower rear portion of the blade, so I'm not sure what that's about. I'll get it all cleaned up and post some pics. Then, I'll need to find a local sharpener to get useable.

[steven c newman]

The "11" means there are 11 points (teeth) per inch....That be a lot of teeth...

[Jim Koepke]

Then, I'll need to find a local sharpener to get useable.

My guess is you would likely do aa good a job as your local sharpener if there is one in your area.

If you are worried about trying it for the first time, find a junk saw and give it a try.

Looking forward to some pics.

jtk

[Kevin Smira]

@Jim...the problem I see is that it fees like some of the set is off...like I probably hammered the set flat when I was 8...

[Pat Barry]

My guess is you would likely do aa good a job as your local sharpener if there is one in your area.jtk
I know that you are trying to encourage, but this is simply an incorrect statement. For example, I know nothing about your own personal skill in saw sharpening, but I would bet $ that you do a better job than I. To suggest that a newbie can do as good a job as a professional, albeit with a little practice on a junk saw, is ludicrous and disparages professionals of all vocations.

[steven c newman]

11ppi teeth are a bit too small for my old eyes to see well enough to sharpen them. Not sure where you live, but around here ( west central Ohio) there are several that sharpen saws. The one I used charges $0.60 per inch, plus sales tax. 361362
My D-8 ( 1947 era) is an 8 ppi, cost me $16 to have it done.
361363
Just an old saw...

[lowell holmes]

A strong pair of drug store reading glasses will let you see the teeth. I know and so does George. IIRC, he's the one to suggest it.

[Jim Koepke]

To suggest that a newbie can do as good a job as a professional, albeit with a little practice on a junk saw, is ludicrous and disparages professionals of all vocations.

One definition of a professional is someone who does a task for payment. It doesn't say anything about being good at it. Finding a good saw sharpener might be difficult. Besides, so many others have given it a try and have found there is not great mystery to saw sharpening. It is only a matter of paying attention to what one is doing.

Some "professional" saw sharpeners do a great job. Most often folks here on SMC are not as lucky as Steven to have one in their area. The demand isn't high enough to keep them in business.


@Jim...the problem I see is that it fees like some of the set is off...like I probably hammered the set flat when I was 8...

The set problem can likely be corrected with a saw set. A saw set is not an expensive investment, especially if you plan to have more than one saw.

As Lowell says, if the eyes are in need get some reading glasses. I usually wear a pair over my regular bifocals to magnify saw teeth.

jtk

[Kevin Smira]

Here it is as it sits today. The plywood "carrier" as seen in the pic is as original to the saw as I've seen it in my 43 years. My dad said I could keep the saw if I made a new "carrier" for it. I will, but this will be a user for me, so I'll make something out of cherry (cause I have it on hand) to display when not in use. I know I didn't provide any good pics of the teeth, but anyone have a quick way for me to decide if it's rip or crosscut? I think rip and if not, I think I might get it filed for rip?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/smirak/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/0BF431D3-59F7-42A4-B6B1-D9EE7E778713.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/smirak/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/0BF431D3-59F7-42A4-B6B1-D9EE7E778713.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/smirak/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/BD4D9A15-FB43-463A-888A-6BDF1AD746F8.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/smirak/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/BD4D9A15-FB43-463A-888A-6BDF1AD746F8.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/smirak/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/5D426EA2-AD8F-481B-A87A-2EB6627A375A.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/smirak/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/5D426EA2-AD8F-481B-A87A-2EB6627A375A.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/smirak/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/365E75A0-A63D-4999-88B0-015EE40AC43B.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/smirak/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2017-06/365E75A0-A63D-4999-88B0-015EE40AC43B.jpg.html)

[steven c newman]

11 would be a crosscut saw. Looks like there is plenty of set.

Pre 1928. After 1928, Disston went from the 8 inside the D to a hypen style...D-8.

[Jim Koepke]

Kevin,

There is a lot of good information on this site:

http://www.vintagesaws.com/

Especially in the library. You might want to start with:

http://www.vintagesaws.com/cgi-bin/frameset.cgi?left=main&right=/library/library.html

Even if you do not feel like sharpening your own saw this will show how to determine a rip from a crosscut saw.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

(Pokes nose into SMC in a work-free moment, sees that both the cast of characters and general discussion topics are reassuringly familiar :-)


I know that you are trying to encourage, but this is simply an incorrect statement. For example, I know nothing about your own personal skill in saw sharpening, but I would bet $ that you do a better job than I. To suggest that a newbie can do as good a job as a professional, albeit with a little practice on a junk saw, is ludicrous and disparages professionals of all vocations.

Indeed. I've done probably ~40 saws total, and my results aren't in the same league as people who've done it day in and day out for a lifetime.


One definition of a professional is someone who does a task for payment. It doesn't say anything about being good at it.

As a rule hacks don't stay "professional" by that definition for long.



Finding a good saw sharpener might be difficult. Besides, so many others have given it a try and have found there is not great mystery to saw sharpening. It is only a matter of paying attention to what one is doing.

I think this depends to a certain degree on one's definition of "good". By paying attention to that stuff I can create uniform angles and point spacing/height, but I would describe that as merely "adequate".



Some "professional" saw sharpeners do a great job. Most often folks here on SMC are not as lucky as Steven to have one in their area. The demand isn't high enough to keep them in business.

That's why people like Pete Taran offer sharpening services by mail...

[Patrick Chase]

Here it is as it sits today. The plywood "carrier" as seen in the pic is as original to the saw as I've seen it in my 43 years. My dad said I could keep the saw if I made a new "carrier" for it. I will, but this will be a user for me, so I'll make something out of cherry (cause I have it on hand) to display when not in use. I know I didn't provide any good pics of the teeth, but anyone have a quick way for me to decide if it's rip or crosscut? I think rip and if not, I think I might get it filed for rip?

Most people would consider 11 tpi on a saw as large as a D8 to be most useful for cross-cutting. Note however that there are a fair number of people who file their crosscut saws with rip profiles, so the application doesn't rigidly determine the tooth profile.

The rake angle on those teeth looks to be ~20 deg, which is most commonly used with some fleam, i.e. in a crosscut tooth profile. Again there are people out there who use similarly relaxed rake with rip profiles, so it's not a hard and fast thing.

[Jim Koepke]

Most people would consider 11 tpi on a saw as large as a D8 to be most useful for cross-cutting.

Also one should be aware the teeth have to be counted against a ruler. Many saws are marked with a number that has no meaning due to someone changing the saw over time.

One of my rip saws came from the factory with a 10 ppi toothing. It isn't a Disston, but it does leave a smooth cut.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

Some people file all of their saws rip cut, especially the fine tooth ones. I prefer to have my joinery saws files cross cut and rip cut.

I took some Paul Sellers classes and they only had rip cut saws. My hand saws (carpentry saws) are cross cut for cross grain cuts and rip cut for ripping cuts.
After all, we must have one of each!:)

My carcass saws are are rip cut.

[Stew Denton]

Hi Kevn,

My comments are just to flesh out what some of the others have written. I agree with the comment that an 11 point is most likely a crosscut. That is because it is quite rare to file a rip saw with that high of a tooth count. Tenon saws are often only filed as 10 point saws, and the tenon saw is considerably smaller and made for finer work than is a carpenters size saw. Typically carpenters rip saws that I see are from 4 to 7 point saws, primarily. Also the picture of the teeth looks like they are filed crosscut.

An 11 point crosscut carpenters saw would be considered a finish cross cut saw, where as something like an 8 point would be a general purpose or framing saw.

I do agree with Jim, you can find videos on line and plenty of articles dedicated to sharpening saws. If you are a careful patient person with experience with tools and with use of files, you can do a reasonable job of sharpening a saw on the first go if you study the instructions carefully. I do agree, however, if you have a valuable saw (at least to you), you would do well to buy a cheap used saw to practice on.

With regard to "professionals" I agree with Jim. Finding a professional saw sharpener, especially a really good one, in this day and age is not nearly as easy as it used to be.

I can also say that not all "professional" saw sharpeners do a great job. The first saw I sharpened myself turned out as well as some "professionals" have done that I have known about. The subject of hand saw sharpening came up more than "once in a great while" back when I was carpentering among us who were working together. The subject of what "professionals" did a good job of sharpening and those that did not was important to us working every day at carpentry.

That said, Patrick does have a point, the good professionals can do a better job than I do. However, I will still say that if you carefully study saw sharpening from the tutorials and sites on the net, go slow and carefully, paying attention to details, you can do a credible job of sharpening a saw, it isn't rocket science. The very first one I sharpened came out what I would call "pretty good." Perfect.....no.....but still "good enough" for practical purposes.

One of the biggest difficulties I face in sharpening is the need for magnification. My eyes are not what they used to be.

Jim also has an important point, Disston used to stamp the point designation below the handle at the heel on their saws, just like the one in your photo, but.....as Jim pointed out....saws can be repointed over the years, and just because yours is listed as and "11" only means it started out as an "11." I certainly have saws that have a different tooth count than what is stamped on the saw blade, so someone had a saw retoothed at some point in time. If you are right and the last date that the saw you have could have been made was 1917, it is at least 100 years old.....a lot can happen in 100 years.

Stew

[lowell holmes]

Well, I have learned to shape, set and sharpen my own saws, so I can have what I want and change it if I change my mind.:)

And sometimes I do.

[Pete Taran]

I'm sure it's an 11 point crosscut unless someone has changed the tooth pitch and profile. It's worth noting that Disston only made rip saws (hand saws that is) in 7 ppi and larger (6, 5.5, 5, 4, 4.5, 4, 3.5 etc). So, it you have an 11 point saw, and it's filed rip, someone other than the factory made it that way. Looks like it will make a great user when it's cleaned up and set.

Pete

[Kevin Smira]

It's most definitely an 11pt and crosscut after further review. And I can assure you my great grandfather didn't change the profile at all. Neither did my dad. My guess is that my great grandfather needed a saw for a task (as he wasn't a true carpenter, more of a hobbyist) and walked into the "then Home Depot" and grabbed this saw. Honestly, I'm not even sure it's ever been sharpened. I took the handle off earlier to start the rehab process and just for fun, I put a nice kerf into a 2" thick block of cherry with just the saw plate. It needs a good sharpening, but I could use it in a pinch if I absolutely had to. I'll say this...I have a new veritable dovetail saw and that booger is hard to start a cut with, but this one starts like its soft butter.

[Patrick Chase]

It's most definitely an 11pt and crosscut after further review. And I can assure you my great grandfather didn't change the profile at all. Neither did my dad. My guess is that my great grandfather needed a saw for a task (as he wasn't a true carpenter, more of a hobbyist) and walked into the "then Home Depot" and grabbed this saw. Honestly, I'm not even sure it's ever been sharpened. I took the handle off earlier to start the rehab process and just for fun, I put a nice kerf into a 2" thick block of cherry with just the saw plate. It needs a good sharpening, but I could use it in a pinch if I absolutely had to. I'll say this...I have a new veritable dovetail saw and that booger is hard to start a cut with, but this one starts like its soft butter.

It's illegal to plug one's own services on SMC but there's nothing stopping me from plugging somebody else's so...

If at some point you do need professional saw sharpening services you could do far worse (and probably not much better) than the guy who posted #18 on this thread. http://www.vintagesaws.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=23

[steven c newman]

Mine is about 1/2 an hour's drive away.

Disston made the No. 4 backsaw they sold for mitre box makers as an 11ppi saw, only. I use a No.4.....both as an 11" long backsaw for joinery, and a few Disston N0.4 s for the mitre boxes I have. All are 11 ppi. One of those is 30" long. That be a LOT of teeth to sharpen. Twas bad enough with the "short" backsaw....

[lowell holmes]

I have filed the ragged tooth line off of a saw before. When you do that, you have the opportunity to make it any tooth
spacing your current whim dictates. It'e a rewarding process.

[lowell holmes]

The set problem can likely be corrected with a saw set. A saw set is not an expensive investment, especially if you plan to have more than one saw.

As Lowell says, if the eyes are in need get some reading glasses. I usually wear a pair over my regular bifocals to magnify saw teeth.

jtk

I have two saw sets. I had one and found one I like better.:) It is a Taintor.

[Mike Allen1010]

It's illegal to plug one's own services on SMC but there's nothing stopping me from plugging somebody else's so...

If at some point you do need professional saw sharpening services you could do far worse (and probably not much better) than the guy who posted #18 on this thread. http://www.vintagesaws.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=23


+1 If you're just getting started with saw sharpening, I highly recommend get one that's been sharpened, tuned, set by true professional – it will give you a a great example of the standard your shooting for as you learn to sharpen your own saws.

I have saws that been sharpened by some of the leading saw sharpeners working today like: Darryl Weir (old hand saws restored), Mark Harrell (bad Axe), Mike Merlo and Pete Taran. FWIW, my advice is send your saw to Pete. When you get it back I'm guessing the phrase "So that's how a Hand saw is supposed to work" will come to mind.


Cheers, Mike