Best position for a lathe in a woodshop: A question

[Rick Hubbard]

Our Maker Space organization recently acquired a lathe from a generous donor.

The first and foremost question at hand is how to best position it in the woodworking area of our shop. I'm inclined to think it would be best to locate it up against a wall rather than standing free in the middle of the shop.

Hopefully someone on this forum could provide some guidance.

Thanks You
Rick

[John Beaver]

Hey Rick,

Lathes can throw shavings a long way, contaminating anything near them. I would aim for placing it in it's own space - maybe with a divider to keep the shavings contained. Also keep in mind that those shavings need to be removed so make sure there is easy access to the area you will be dumping your shavings.

[Brice Rogers]

I "second" putting the lathe in its own space AND not against the wall. My first lathe was against a wall. My 2nd lathe is in the middle of my shop. Sometimes when I'm hollowing I will go to the other side of the lathe to get better access. Also, when hollowing it is better to have your arms close to your body rather than stretched way out. If you can't get to the backside, then you have your arms way out.

[Thom Sturgill]

And if you DO need to put it near a wall, angle it so that the tail end is away from the wall. Think about a pool table and where anything "launched" from the lathe is going to go. Many people have been hit by a piece that hits the wall and bounces straight back at them. My lathe is in the middle of the room and I have a workbench behind me while I am turning. I would love curtains, but my shop has 12' high walls with no ceiling (just rafters) which creates a bit of a problem.

[Reed Gray]

I do flat work as well. My lathe is in a dedicated room and up against a wall. I guess part of where you put it depends on size, and I have an American Beauty, and can generate 2 50 gallon trash bags full of shavings in a day. It does help containment of the shavings. If you have a mini lathe, then bench top would probably be fine.

robo hippy

[Eric Gourieux]

And if you DO need to put it near a wall, angle it so that the tail end is away from the wall. Think about a pool table and where anything "launched" from the lathe is going to go. Many people have been hit by a piece that hits the wall and bounces straight back at them. My lathe is in the middle of the room and I have a workbench behind me while I am turning. I would love curtains, but my shop has 12' high walls with no ceiling (just rafters) which creates a bit of a problem.

Thom,
I also have 12 ft ceiling in my shop. I installed cables wall to wall about 6 or 7 ft from the floor to hang shower curtains. I anchored the cables to wall studs and tightened them with turnbuckles. Works great.

[William C Rogers]

I have 12' ceilings also. I'm in the midst or a lathe redo, but plan on hanging a 3/4" conduit from the rafters chain. I don't think it will be a problem with movement opening and closing because of the"swing" of the chain

[Rick Hubbard]

Thanks for the advice.

I'm not fond of the idea of having the unit against the wall but I hate the thought of the mess it would make in the middle of the shop.

My latest brainstorm is to put a tarp around 3 sides of a rolling scaffold that we have stored against a wall near the lathe and use it as a "shroud". I figure that when someone wants to use the lathe they can simply roll the "shroud" into position over/around the lathe. There is a dust collector port adjacent to wher the lathe is located so between the shroud and the DC the mess should be minimized (or at least localized).

Any thought about this idea?

[Dennis Ford]

I think that against a wall is a poor location for a lathe, but lots of friends have there lathe near a wall. I often stand on the backside while hollowing. If it has a sliding head-stock and there is room to work at the end, against a wall can work. In a shop where other people may be working at the same time someone is turning, some separation would be a good idea, perhaps a partition wall creating a booth type space.

[John K Jordan]

Thanks for the advice.

I'm not fond of the idea of having the unit against the wall but I hate the thought of the mess it would make in the middle of the shop.

My latest brainstorm is to put a tarp around 3 sides of a rolling scaffold that we have stored against a wall near the lathe and use it as a "shroud". I figure that when someone wants to use the lathe they can simply roll the "shroud" into position over/around the lathe. There is a dust collector port adjacent to wher the lathe is located so between the shroud and the DC the mess should be minimized (or at least localized).

Any thought about this idea?

For me wall space in the shop is extremely valuable. I believe the decision to put it against the wall or out in the room my depends on your style, preference, and what you like to turn. Some of those who want to do a lot of hollowing like to have more space. Those that don't are may be happy with the lathe against the wall. If the lathe is one that has a sliding headstock (Jet 1642, PM3520, etc) you can possibly do both - put it next to a short wall section and when more access is needed slide the headstock down to the open end.

I turn a big variety of things and I want my lathes against the wall. I make good use of the wall to hold tools, supplies, and task light fixtures. The wall stops all the shavings from going in that direction and many fall into a tub I have below the lathe. My 6" dust collector duct comes down the wall and needs only a short piece of flex to position the pickup. While I enjoy turning smaller things, I have zero problem with hollowing, turning large platters, big bowls, long spindles, etc.

I have also had my lathe arranged with the lathe more in the middle of the room with the wall behind me. However, I like a workbench behind me. Without a workbench very close I'm forever using the lathe bed as a work bench to hold things, work on chucks, mix epoxy, etc.

This is the layout of my new shop showing the two walls for the turning space. The lathe space at the top is not a closed room, it's three sides with the fourth open into the main shop. I'm usually the only one in the shop but if I allowed something big to come off the lathe at high speed it would likely be constrained to bouncing around the lathe space.

361255

A recent photo of the primary lathe and it's wall. Everything I use the most is with arm's reach.

361249

This is the chip tub:

361250

I built two walls specifically to define a turning "space" and to hang tools. I have this lathe against a wall that extends out into the shop. When I'm standing at the first lathe this lathe and wall is behind me. If I slide the headstock on this lathe to the end of the bed there is free space all around it.

361251

If it would work in your building, a simple 2x4 wall or two is very quick and easy to construct. I would leave space for a future second lathe. You might otherwise consider constructing a couple of free-standing plywood partitions with sturdy frame bases. I like the wall space behind the lathe so much that in my previous tiny garage space I simply leaned a 4x8 sheet of plywood against the back of my radial arm saw and used it as a wall to hold things.

If you have the lathe against the wall OR out in the middle of the room instead of a tarp you can also contain the chip mess with some heavy plastic curtains hanging from the ceiling or a frame made of pipe or something. Clear plastic industrial curtains would let the light in and "feel" more open.

JKJ

[Thomas Canfield]

I had a very high slanted ceiling on previous shop and hung using cord a 1" thinwall conduit at 8' height and bought the 8' long shower curtains from Amazon. I had the curtains just touch the floor to help contain the flying shavings. I found that the standard 6' high curtains were not tall enough and the rod was also at my head height at 6'. My current shop only has 8' ceiling so I use 7' shower curtains again from Amazon. One section of curtain is attached to rod using spring clamps to make curtain removable to open up space. I wish I could find the vented curtains like found in hospitals to knock down the large shavings but allow air passage near ceiling.

[Jeffrey J Smith]

I've got the lathe centered at the front of the shop in a good sized area. The ceiling is sloped front back in that area from about 14' to 8'. I like being able to open up the doors in front, and the access it gives to the other side of the lathe. There's a visqueen curtain 10' high on three sides running on curtail tracks from Ikea to save the rest of the space from shavings. I do a little flat work, so the rest of the shop is pretty well spoken for.

[David Bassett]

Our Maker Space organization recently acquired a lathe from a generous donor. ....

Lots of ideas here, but I don't see one aspect of your situation being addressed directly. I assume your space will be shared and in our shared space one of the big concerns is how to contain accidents. In practice compromises need to be made, but I've always thought in a corner at 45-degrees to both walls would be an ideal position. (With enough space to comfortably use the lathe of course.) I figure any "launch" would have to ricochet of a wall, and lose momentum, before it reached another user.

Of course, fully enclosed would be even better.

[John K Jordan]

Lots of ideas here, but I don't see one aspect of your situation being addressed directly. I assume your space will be shared and in our shared space one of the big concerns is how to contain accidents. In practice compromises need to be made, but I've always thought in a corner at 45-degrees to both walls would be an ideal position. (With enough space to comfortably use the lathe of course.) I figure any "launch" would have to ricochet of a wall, and lose momentum, before it reached another user.

Of course, fully enclosed would be even better.

I tried to address that, but perhaps not clearly, when describing my turning area with walls on three sides. (" I'm usually the only one in the shop but if I allowed something big to come off the lathe at high speed it would likely be constrained to bouncing around the lathe space.") Positioning the lathe parallel to the two parallel walls, either against or away from a wall, could avoid a launch into the larger shared space.

The hazard of dangerous projectiles goes up with turners not experienced in secure work holding, appropriate speed, and catch elimination. Once in junior high (yes, I'm old enough to go to school in the era when all schools had shop classes) a fellow student launched a bowl which after finally hitting the floor bounced out through a 3rd story glass window and was never seen again.

JKJ

[Michael Schneider]

You mentioned this was a maker space. Not sure about yours, but the ones around here are open to anyone, with any experience level. Most are beginners, most people here use maker spaces to use machines they don't have and can't afford, or machines they are thinking about getting.


On your lathe:
1) what lathe is it? or what type of late is it? (A small lathe will not have as many risks as a large lathe. ex. a VB36 may require some thinking)
2) what tools will come with it? (spindle, bowl or both)
3) what type of holding jigs (chucks, faceplates, etc) will be provided? ( you might think about labeling the tools, and write "do not use on bowl" on the roughing gouge :-) )
4) what type of safety gear is provided with the lathe. Most people will have safety glasses, but probably not face masks or helmets for bigger things.
5) is your place setup with a central dust collection for sanding on lathe?


On your maker space:
- Does your space require any training time before someone uses a machine?
- Does your space provide training for tools?
- how crowded is your space? are there people often waiting on machines?
- is there a profile for the people that use this space? (careful to "hey, watch this....")

Maker spaces are great, and the chance to use new tools are great. We have a nice one with some cnc tools and welders that open up doors for people.


The answer to the questions above may help guide from "drop it anywhere" to "put it in a separate room, with steel bars on the walls to catch the flyers" :-)

most of all have fun..

Michael

[David Bassett]

I tried to address that, but perhaps not clearly, .... JKJ

Sorry, I intended to acknowledge the good advice and focus on a point I thought was unique to maker spaces. I think you're always present, even when you have groups, in your shop. That alone makes it much safer than a typical maker space can be. Yes, we have a basic safety class. But you never know when someone will "extend" that training with an ill-advised or misunderstood Youtube video. Our shop just moved and I don't know how the new area will be set up, but in the old space the wood lathe was back-to-back with the table saw. I wouldn't use the table saw when someone was turning a bowl nor turn when someone I didn't know was using the table saw. (I figured a small chance of a kick-back or a launch to the back of the head was enough it wasn't worth the risk.) In practice, I'm not sure you can make a maker space idiot proof enough or have too much safety training. Unfortunately, for all the strengths and value of a space, your next member might be the world's "best" idiot and each member still needs to look out for themselves.

[John K Jordan]

...n practice, I'm not sure you can make a maker space idiot proof enough or have too much safety training. Unfortunately, for all the strengths and value of a space, your next member might be the world's "best" idiot and each member still needs to look out for themselves.

The whole idea of possibly unsupervised sharing of a lathe scares me a little. Perhaps stick to lathes with smaller capacity and power like a Jet mini where someone couldn't mount 16" chunk and spin it up to 3000 rpm, by accident or on purpose?

What might be great for lathes in maker spaces are the shatter-proof (lexan?) screens on portable stands that are in many clubs and venues these days. Then people could even stand behind and watch and learn.

You are right about the safety training. I don't know if it is typically required, but each potential user should take a safety course and pass a test for certification before using the lathe. Perhaps a series of required classes for those interested? Perhaps a requirement for x number of hours with a mentor before unsupervised use?. Some type of hardware lockout system would be desirable.

A practical concern about a shared lathe is the tools. If you have shared tools, they will either never be sharp or horribly sharpened. Without a sharpening guru there will be much beginner frustration. Best would be if each user brought personal tools but that handicaps the person without resources. I know if visiting or mentoring there I would bring my own tools!

JKJ

[Leo Van Der Loo]

About the placing of a lathe,

The postion of my lathes are away from the wall, as I like to be able to use the wall for hanging and placing racks, cabinets etc. and I don’t like what often happens with lathes placed agains a wall, the reaching over the lathe to take tools or other while the lathe is turning, a safety hazard (yes I know they all stop the lathe always,..... really?).

As I work on the lathe, all I have to do is turn around to get my tools in the cabinet/rack right behind me, and I also don’t have the shavings pile up agains the wall behind the lathe or on a bench if smaller lathe, and then it’s just harder to clean up.

I also have a high ceiling and have the shower curtains hanging on suspended rod and not right down to the floor, as I’m only conserned with the flying shavings and can keep the curtain a bit higher this way to catch those shavings.

Space wise it does not take up more room IMO as you do need the room to be able to work on the lathe, standing/walking on either side, against or away from the wall, plus now you can use the wall for rack and cabinet placement, plus you are able to work on the backside of the lathe if that is more convenient or safer to do.

[roger wiegand]

My lathe is up against the wall, with a big window over it that provides a lot of natural light, and a nice view of my meadow. I haven't felt the need to be on the other side of it any time in the last 30 years, so I guess there must be some technique I haven't learned yet that requires that-- something to look forward to. It would be easy enough to swing one end out as needed. The lathe is offset from the window such that the primary "line of fire" will hit the wall, not the window. Haven't broken one yet! I'm quite happy to take that risk in order to get the light.

I think it is important to position your lathe and sharpening station such that you can sharpen by just turning, without having to take even a step.

[Michael Mills]

My lathe is close to the wall due to space limitations of my shop. I also do not do hollow forms so there is no need for me to every be behind it.
I use sliding netting (pond or garden) to keep chips contained and allow air flow. I did have to add some bolts at the bottom for weight.
For a finer mesh, mosquito netting will allow for things to still be seen.

https://www.amazon.com/GardeningWill-Mosquito-Barrier-Hunting-Netting/dp/B01G79PK5W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496498425&sr=8-1&keywords=mosquito%2Bnet%2B10%2Bfeet&th=1

[David Bassett]

The whole idea of possibly unsupervised sharing of a lathe scares me a little. Perhaps stick to lathes with smaller capacity and power like a Jet mini where someone couldn't mount 16" chunk and spin it up to 3000 rpm, by accident or on purpose?

Powermatic 4224. Not too big. :-)

OTOH- you make a great point.


What might be great for lathes in maker spaces are the shatter-proof (lexan?) screens on portable stands that are in many clubs and venues these days. Then people could even stand behind and watch and learn.

That would be an outstanding addition, but space and cost are always a consideration. (Once our move is complete and I see the new layout, I'll suggest that if it'd be an improvement.)



You are right about the safety training. I don't know if it is typically required, but each potential user should take a safety course and pass a test for certification before using the lathe.

They have one, but it is very basic. Again time & cost versus effectiveness. Remember this isn't a turning club, but a general maker space. (I don't have a valid sample, but I'd guess 3/4 of the "wood shop" use is MDF and/or plywood in the ShopBots.) Besides, if you want to get dead or seriously injured the Metal Shop, Hot Shop, or Auto Bay are much more opportunity rich. (I'm real glad I missed the time, at another shop, an "expert" launched a metal lathe chuck key 35' across a workspace, through a plasterboard wall, across a hallway, through another wall, across the lobby, and into the outside brick wall of the building.)


Perhaps a series of required classes for those interested? Perhaps a requirement for x number of hours with a mentor before unsupervised use?. Some type of hardware lockout system would be desirable.

We just made some suggestions along those lines. They have sign-ups , but not lockouts, so they can check the basic safety training. They have staff that is supposed to monitor, but they can't be everywhere. We suggested more advanced classes, supervised mentor time, and a curated list of Youtube instructional videos. It's all a cost / time / benefit trade off.


A practical concern about a shared lathe is the tools. If you have shared tools, they will either never be sharp or horribly sharpened. Without a sharpening guru there will be much beginner frustration. Best would be if each user brought personal tools but that handicaps the person without resources. I know if visiting or mentoring there I would bring my own tools!

Yup. For the wood lathe they now have a sharpening station, with Wolverine jigs, and sharpening classes. In general, the rule is users provide consumables and the shop provides machines. Hand tools are a gray area. Most serious users bring their own hand tools because the shop provided ones get beat. (Heck, I have my own Robust tool rests for the wood lathe, because I got tired of the shop's needing to be filed smooth.)

I guess I got a little off topic. I'm sure the OP's space has different requirements and will make different trade offs, but hopefully there's some useful things to consider here.