Rasps

[lowell holmes]

I have three wood rasps. An Ariou, Nickleson 50, and a rat tail with no name.

I am deeply disappointed with the 50. In my mind it is useless. The other two perform magnificently. For
the life of me, I do not understand why the Nickleson rasps are highly regarded.

Just venting.

[David Eisenhauer]

How do the specs/pedigree or whatever they are called compare between the Nicholson and the Ariou? Length/grade/shape/etc.

[Jim Koepke]

How do the specs/pedigree or whatever they are called compare between the Nicholson and the Ariou? Length/grade/shape/etc.

There really isn't a comparison.

Here is a representation of the Auriou grain sizes:

360987

Nicholson rasps are like driving a hard bumpy road with bad suspension where Auriou are like floating on a pond.

The finer Auriou ~13 to 15 grain can leave a smooth surface.

Here is a link that may shed more light on the subject:

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/379/Using%20Rasps%20in%20the%20Woodshop%20Can%20Add%20 Flourishes%20to%20Basic%20Work.

jtk

[Frederick Skelly]

I bought one of LV's hand cut rasps (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=20133&cat=1,42524) a few months back. I dont know what grain they are, but mine doesnt hog the material off fast enough to be used for that function, nor does it leave a very smooth finish. So it's some odd, intermediate grain. Today I used it on a table leg and had to followup with my Iwasaki extra fine (love the Iwasakis) and some sandpaper. It's very rare for me not to like an LV tool, but so far I just haven't warmed up to this one. Maybe I need a finer one to follow this one with. Dunno.

But this hand cut rasp makes me wonder how an Auriou, etc could be THAT much better (if I chose the same grain), though they cost 4 times as much as LV. Must be somehow - everyone loves them. But I cant quite imagine it. I mean, LV makes/sells good brands.

Guess I'm just venting too Lowell.
Fred

[Todd Stock]

The US-made #49 and #50 Nicholsons were pretty decent machine-stitched rasps, while their Brazilian-made replacements are awful...inconsistent in starting, rougher cut requiring more pressure, etc. The pref of my students has been the hand-stitched 9" x 10 grain Auriou, or similar from Liogier. We've tried both Chinese and Pakistani hand-stitched rasps, and while better than the machine cut stuff, still underwhelming compared to the Auriou or Liogier rasps....but run about 1/3 the cost.

A good rasp is often paired with a good cabinet file - it smooths and refines what the rasp leaves in a more consistent fashion than a card scraper, and is more aggressive than the mill files we use as a final step before scraping. It is worth looking for NOS US-made Nicholsons in a couple lengths (we have 6", 8", and 10" - all are very useful) at shows and sales - their US-made cabinet files are still to be preferred over Grobet or Pferd (although the Pferd files get nearly as much use in this shop as the US Nicholsons, and can be found on Amazon, etc. new).


Liogier Rasps

http://www.liogier-france.fr/woodworking?lang=en

NOS Nicholson Cabinet File

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nicholson-10-Cabinet-File-Smooth-double-cut-File-USA-NEW-01260-/322329412337?hash=item4b0c5482f1:g:4xoAAOSw4GVYK0m F

[lowell holmes]

For the record, I am quite pleased with the Ariou. It cuts quickly and smoothly.

[Robert LaPlaca]

Lowell, both the Liogier and Auriou are beautiful performing rasps, they will spoil you forever.

[Jim Koepke]

Here is a quick performance test of different types of large rasps. Maybe later some of my rifflers can be brought out to play.

Here is the line up for the test:

361033

The two on the left are Nicholson 10" Super Shear. One was bought new and the other was a junk shop find. Third is a Superior Standard broken half round found at an estate sale. Next are my two Auriou rasps 15 grain and 13 grain. Second from the right is a Brazilian #50 and on the far right is a Disston rasp found in a junk shop. The Disston looks to be hand stitched. This picture was taken after they were used and before being cleaned and put away.

The Nicholson Super Shear and the Auriou rasps were first up:

361034

There are almost no lines in either of the cuts made by the Auriou rasps. All the work was done with a straight push. In many cases the cut can be made a little smoother with a skewed cut.

The Nicholson Super Shear is especially good on end grain:

361035

The Superior Standard is about the same as the Nicholson other than having one side half round:

361036

The Nicholson #50 leaves many tracks for further work.

The Disston is also a rough cutting rasp:

361037

Hope this is of some help to others.

jtk

[David Eisenhauer]

Thanks Jim. Very informative photos. Lowell/Jim: If I were to buy one Auriou (or Liogier) for cabinet work in shaping rounded objects in hardwood, which grain size do you recommend? I have seen the recommendation to go with either a 10"-#9, or a 9"-#10 as a first rasp. Does that tally with your experience or should I move up a few grain sizes to a slightly smoother cutting one?

[lowell holmes]

David, my rasp is an Auriou 10. I am quite pleased with it. If you buy a cheap rasp, then you have to buy a good rasp and it just costs more. Don't ask how I know. :)

I bought it from Lie Nielsen. I think it was worth every penny. It is a pleasure to use good high quality tools.

[David Eisenhauer]

Thanks Lowell. I will not buy a cheap one but will only go for one at first. Looks like I will go for that 9 or 10 as recommended. If things work out, maybe get a second, smoother cutting one later on but one has to watch the $ with this stuff. I would love to rub my hands over a good quality rasp and then rub it on some wood to see how it goes because I bought a couple of cheap ones 30 years ago and was not favorably impressed then or over the years. I thought all of them cut that way.

[lowell holmes]

The old saying goes like this: "Buy an expensive tool and cry when you but it, but a cheap tool and cry every time you use it". :)

[Jim Koepke]

My two Auriou rasps are 13 & 15 grain. My recollection from a write up many years ago is the 10 grain is about as coarse as one would want for cabinet type woodworking.

A 10 might be good at hogging off wood. It might not be the best for finish smoothing.

Maybe someone with coarser grain rasps could work the end of a piece of scrap wood to show the appearance of their wood removal.

jtk

[Jim Koepke]

David, my rasp is an Auriou 10. I am quite pleased with it. If you buy a cheap rasp, then you have to buy a good rasp and it just costs more. Don't ask how I know. :)

I bought it from Lie Nielsen. I think it was worth every penny. It is a pleasure to use good high quality tools.

Lowell,

Is the surface left by the Auriou 10 finish grade or is more work needed?

Can you post an image of the surface left by the 10?

thanks,

jtk

[David Eisenhauer]

Jim: If 15 is the smoothest cutting grain on a rasp, how does the 15 grain cut compare to a wood file? In other words, do you have to file after using your 15? Or scrape? sand? In my mind, I was thinking a 10 or so for hogging off wood, then followed up with a smoother cutting 13? 14? 15? to finish the shape.

[Jim Koepke]

Hi David,

Usually the 15 can leave a smooth surface that doesn't need sanding. I want to say it is about like a 220 sandpaper or better. With skewing and a little finesse the surface can come close to what a blade leaves.

My best guess is the shear files are like a float.

These can all start to chatter in odd situations. The wood will usually cooperate if the angle of attack is varied.

My shop made saw handles and some plane handles have been smoothed with my 13 & 15 Auriou rasps. Usually without sanding afterwards.

Likewise some of my chisel handles and one mallet has been worked on with these rasps.

jtk

[lowell holmes]

Jim, I will see about making a picture. On clear white pine, the rasp will leave a surface between 100 and 80 grit sand paper.

[David Eisenhauer]

Thanks to Lowell and Jim for clearing up some questions I have had on an upcoming purchase.

[Frederick Skelly]

There really isn't a comparison.

Here is a representation of the Auriou grain sizes:

360987

Nicholson rasps are like driving a hard bumpy road with bad suspension where Auriou are like floating on a pond.

The finer Auriou ~13 to 15 grain can leave a smooth surface.

Here is a link that may shed more light on the subject:

https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/blog/379/Using%20Rasps%20in%20the%20Woodshop%20Can%20Add%20 Flourishes%20to%20Basic%20Work.

jtk

Jim, Lowell,
Thanks for all the information and pictures. This has helped me. Comparing my LV rasp against Jim's pictures, I'd call it about a 4 1/2 grain.

Might forgo the dust collector today and order a couple rasps instead.

Appreciate it!
Fred