Hand Saw Sharpening.

[Stewie Simpson]

Want to keep your file stroke at plumb, but have the option of straight or sloped gullets.

The following modification to my Gramercy Saw Vise may interest you.

2x 1/4" deep dado's were cut to house the wooden wedges.

Straight Gullets;

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0124_zpsnalhhkcy.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0124_zpsnalhhkcy.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0123_zpsds6jkfml.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0123_zpsds6jkfml.jpg.html)

10 degree Sloped Gullets;

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0122_zps06j00x8y.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0122_zps06j00x8y.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0121_zpsklsd8ond.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0121_zpsklsd8ond.jpg.html)

[Stewie Simpson]

Brent Beach has written an excellent article on the subject of Sloped Gullets;

Sloping Gullets (http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/sawjig/sloping%20gullets.html)

[Phil Mueller]

Love it. Simple - why didn't I think of that - kind of solution. Thanks for sharing!

[Pete Taran]

A severe limitation to this kind of saw filing vise. The most popular models from the old days had a ball socket where the upper and lower parts met, so you could slope gullets and even adjust for fleam in one setting. That way, you just had to file straight back and level, without needing to compensate in holding the file. There are a lot of wentworth style vises around, including this incarnation, but the adjustable style has the most utility if you ask me.

http://www.vintagesaws.com/storeimages/vise.jpg

[Stewie Simpson]

15 degrees fleam, 10 degrees sloped gullets.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0125_zpsawnxrsjy.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0125_zpsawnxrsjy.jpg.html)

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0126_zpswzuclct9.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0126_zpswzuclct9.jpg.html)

[Normand Leblanc]

Good morning Stewie,

I've sharpen quite a few saws in my life but never with sloped gullets. Do you really see a difference with this slope?

Normand

[Pat Barry]

Normand; to effectively answer that question I refer you back to the article written by Brent Beach. Within the attached table from Varying the Slope with my Jig you will note the changes in tooth height and volume as the degree of slope is increased. http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/sawjig/sloping%20gullets.html



















Interesting article. The article doesn't provide test results - kinda leaves it up to the reader to try something and report back. Curious if anyone ever did test or report back. What do you like about it Stewie?

[Stewie Simpson]

Normand; to effectively answer that question I refer you back to the article written by Brent Beach. Within the attached table from Varying the Slope with my Jig you will note the changes in tooth height and volume when slope is introduced. http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/sawjig/sloping%20gullets.html

[Pete Taran]

Normand,

The definitive answer is that gullets that are sloped have move volume to carry the saw dust out of the cut allowing for a more aggressive and faster cut. That's the theory.

I go back to what they did in the old days. Disston hand filed all their saws, and if sloped gullets were superior, then they would have filed them that way. It's no more work to file a saw with sloped gullets than it is those without. So, if Disston, and the other makers I might add, didn't think it mattered, then I would suggest for the vast amount of the populace, it doesn't matter.

If on the other hand, you are trying to cut a 2" wet pine board in three strokes, then sloping gullets might be for you.

[Stewie Simpson]

The definitive answer is that gullets that are sloped have move volume to carry the saw dust out of the cut allowing for a more aggressive and faster cut. That's the theory.

Pete, that's FACT not theory.

[Pete Taran]

It is true that factually, sloping gullets have more volume. The theory I'm referring to is that is makes a bit of difference for the vast population of hand saw users. There are a lot of things most don't consider when tuning up their saw with sloping gullets. The saw does become more aggressive, but this requires an experienced hand to appreciate. You can be so aggressive that the saw catches in the cut and buckles the blade. I suspect this is why all the makers didn't file them on their saws. The "pluses" outweigh the minuses. It comes down to the age old quandry, How many angels really can dance on the head of a pin?

[Stewie Simpson]

Pete; the concern you outlined is why I chose not to exceed 10 degrees slope.

[Pat Barry]

Would really like to see you show some measurable differences in cutting performance. All the rest is just theory. Facts of geometry may or may not be facts of practice.

[Pete Taran]

Pat,

My point exactly. Just one more thing to worry about. I stand behind my original statement, if sloping gullets were so spectacular, then the largest handsaw maker in the WORLD, even with branch houses around the globe would have saw fit to use them on their saws. They didn't, so in my mind the difference is minimal to non-existent.

[Joe Williams]

Brent Beach has written an excellent article on the subject of Sloped Gullets;

Sloping Gullets (http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/sawjig/sloping%20gullets.html)

Thank you much, seems so simple yet I never once thought of it. Amazing how things are there all the time and someone smarter has to find them. Also your handle is magnificent. Did you modify the tongue like that? Looks gorgeous.

[Stewie Simpson]

Joe; the following is photo of that saw handle prior to reshaping.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/dads%20no7%20disston%20panel%20saw/_DSC0467_zpsjsnlnnvy.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/dads%20no7%20disston%20panel%20saw/_DSC0467_zpsjsnlnnvy.jpg.html)

[Stewie Simpson]

The following photo shows the same crosscut hand saw being used today on multiple cuts through long grain. Sloped Gullets offer a faster rate of saw cut to the user.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0127_zpsyk4n2x0r.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0127_zpsyk4n2x0r.jpg.html)

[Joe Williams]

Joe; the following is photo of that saw handle prior to reshaping.

http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/dads%20no7%20disston%20panel%20saw/_DSC0467_zpsjsnlnnvy.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/dads%20no7%20disston%20panel%20saw/_DSC0467_zpsjsnlnnvy.jpg.html)

Thank you, you have given me some inspiration to try out some new rasps on one of mine!

[Stewie Simpson]

Attached is the final example of Sloped Gullets I will be posting. Its a Rip Tooth Backsaw being converted to a dedicated Mitre Box Crosscut Tooth (with the addition of 10 degree Sloped Gullets.)

After completing the 2nd run of Sloped Gullets;
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0130_zpsjlga3xjm.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0130_zpsjlga3xjm.jpg.html)

Multiple test cuts with the newly profiled teeth. (Excellent results.)
http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/swagman001/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0131_zpshzrtg2ik.jpg (http://s1009.photobucket.com/user/swagman001/media/slopped%20gullets/_DSC0131_zpshzrtg2ik.jpg.html)

For those that don't feel highly competent at filing a crosscut tooth pattern, your likely to find the addition of sloped gullets way too challenging.

Stewie;