Leaf Management System

[Andy Hoyt]

Okay, so now that about two thirds of the leaves are on the lawn I guess it's time to start thinking about relocating them. I've always just raked 'em up onto a huge piece of burlap and dragged it off into the woods. But I'm feeling lazy and achy and old this year and wondering if there are better or easier ways.

So, what do you do?

I posted this in the power tool section for obvious anticipatory reasons.

[Jon Farley]

I just grind them up a couple times with the mower. They dissappear by spring.

[Bernie Weishapl]

Andy I take a lawn mower to mine. Does a pretty good job. Then I throw them on the wife's garden and then rototill them in.

[Frank Pellow]

I rake them up onto a tarp then pile them behind my compost. Then, during the late spring, summer, and early autumn, I add them a bit at a time to our compost bin.

[Per Swenson]

Andy,

This is one of those subjects that I often rant

about to anyone who will listen. It has more to do

with human nature then Mother nature.

Although brain impaired on the subjects of horticulture,

landscaping and lawn maintenance, common sense and my

observations of the natural order of things, leads me

to the conclusion that the leaves should be mulched

where they fall with the mower.

Now try explaining this concept to my conspicuous consumptive

neighbors who keep the fleet of lawn care guys in brand new trucks.

One fellow in the neighborhood can be seen often following up their work

with scissors upon hands and knees. I need to stop now, before I start to

carry on about lawn leaf bags, the roar of leaf blowers, and the concept

of selling fertilizer after the leaves have been removed.

I Fine mulch my leaves's and leave 'em where they lie.

Per

[Steve Evans]

I need to stop now, before I start to

carry on about lawn leaf bags, the roar of leaf blowers, and the concept

of selling fertilizer after the leaves have been removed.

I Fine mulch my leaves's and leave 'em where they lie.

Per

Per

That's right up there with folks who bag up their grass clippings, and then throw down high nitrogen fertilizer to help the lawn grow. Lots of the nitrogen ends up in the ground water system. And leaf blowers. Bloody things throw out as much pollution as driving a decently tuned car for 20 miles, nevermind the noise factor. I haven't raked leaves or bagged grass for 20 years, all just goes back on the lawn.

[Greg Heppeard]

The front yard has a walnut tree growing in it. I rake them up an put them behind the shop in the back yard. The walnuts are a natural flee and tick repellant. I have a maple in the back yard. Those leaves just get mulched back into the soil.

[Lee DeRaud]

We always have strong "Santa Ana" winds off and on this time of year, so the leaves end up across the street, easy-peasy. I'm just glad the guy on the upwind side has a pool...no trees.:cool:

[Andy Hoyt]

Thanks guys - my mower is in fact a mulching mower and I usually do just this with that last third of the leaves. One year I mulched all three thirds and it was the end of July before the lawn felt right the following year. I'm not one of those AR fertilizing types. My usual yard maintenance protocol is to mow, rake, enjoy its presence, drink beer and hope the trees fall down before I croak, so I can cut 'em up for turning stock.

The problem is that I have just under an acre of lawn ringed by huge beautiful but prodigious leaf producing maples. In addition, my property is ususally the gathering spot for all leaves from upwind neighbors. It is a lot of leaves.

The second problem is that raking sucks.

The third problem is that the bulk of my "Leaf Raking System" has gone off to college and not around to help. Should have had more spawn!

Maybe I'll just mulch all of it and hope that the last time I did this was an anomoly.

[Rob Russell]

Since this is posted in the Power Tool Forum, I'll give you a picture of the power tool I use for the leaves. I bag them with the mower and take them to our town's leaf compost site. When I need compost later on, it's free.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2884&d=1067566271

FYI, this is the only time of year that I bag. We get too many leaves, too quicky to effectively mulch them.

[Andy Hoyt]

Since this is posted in the Power Tool Forum, I'll give you a picture of the power tool I use for the leaves. I bag them with the mower and take them to our town's leaf compost site. When I need compost later on, it's free.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=2884&d=1067566271

FYI, this is the only time of year that I bag. We get too many leaves, too quicky to effectively mulch them.

Jeez, Bob! No plow, no lumber rack, no scratches. Must be defective, huh?

Amen to the too many leaves. Been raking non stop since my last post in this thread and barely made a dent. Too much on the ground for the mower. Time to recharge my batteries with some brew and try some more.

[John Miliunas]

I'm 110% with Per and the rest of the guys who let the stuff compost back in where it lies. I don't bag leaves or clippings. Besides the fact that I mow over an acre, when we bought this place, we weren't aware that, not only did we get a house and a shop but, the local Hilton for moles!:mad: Anything I can do to improve the looks of the lawn is totally eradicated by those useless creatures.:mad: Same goes for fertilizing. Too much of the stuff to begin with and, fertilizing makes the stuff grow thicker, faster. That, in turn, means taking more shop time away from me in more frequent mowing. Nope, I let Mother Nature take care of as much as I can!:) :cool:

[Byron Trantham]

Like Rob, I get too many, too fast. I have one oak that deposits 20-25 55gal bags mulched! I use my lawn tractor and catcher. That oak has a trunk that is easily 6' across and a lower limb spread of 30'! It's a beautiful tree but it's a pain in the Fall!:D

[Joe Pelonio]

We used to have to deal with that, but now we don't have leaves any more since the big leaf maple died. We have several 80-100 foot Douglas firs. When we get wind/rain this time of year they shed, and we get a layer of needles on everything, cars, driveway, lawn roof, into the gutters. You can't rake them you can vacuum them when the people and dogs track them into the house but outside only a leaf blower will do the job.

[Jim Becker]

I let the wind blow them away...

[Bill Ryall]

I figure Mother Nature put them there for a reason...

Far be it from me to argue. I just mulch'em and let them lay.

[Marc Langille]

My rider mower and the Red Max EB7001 backpack blower - I need all the velocity I can get with nearly 3 acres of Oak forest. I don't do the whole property though - maybe an acre.

It's an insane amount of leaves... :eek:

[Gary Herrmann]

fwiw, a landscaper friend of mine told me that mulched leaves are too acidic for most lawns in my part of the country. We have drive by leaf pick up 3 or 4 times each fall, so I bag the leaves and dump them at the edge of my property for pickup. I live in an old neighborhood, and my 1 acre lot is like a slalom course on the lawn tractor.

On another note,

A few blocks away, a 200 yr old white oak came down a month ago or so. I didn't see it, because the guy lives on a flag lot. I saw him at the store the other day and he mentioned it. He had the tree cut up and carted away. I asked him if he kept any. He said yes - for firewood.

Image the width of the quartersawn boards you could have gotten out of that. :eek: I'm going to have to be more diligent after storms from now on...

[David Klug]

Ditto that Bernie!

DK

[JayStPeter]

My last house had tons of massive trees in the back yard. If I mulched them and let them lie, there would be no grass showing through. I had to clear leaves for a few hours every weekend once they started falling or I was doomed.
Yep Per, I had a couple blowers and a leaf shredder. All the leaves were hauled to the wooded part of the lot and shredded. The ground felt like you were walking on a sponge back there.
I just planted the largest tree within 1/4 mile of my new house a few weeks ago. The neighborhood was built on a former tobacco field. The builder recently planted 5 or 6 trees along the back of the lot. In 20 years or so I'll probably have to get another leaf shredder.
I still have my portable blower. I love poluting the atmosphere to clean my grass clippings off the driveway :cool: :D .
I think it depends on where you live as to what is acceptable. Those with multiple acres can do whatever the heck they want. Since I've always had fractions of an acre, I simply look at what everyone else does and try to fall somewhere in the middle. I also shoot for maximum bang for my maintenance hour (ie. blower instead of a broom). At the last house, nobody in the neighborhood let 'em lie. I was one of the few that didn't have about 500 leaf bags headed for the landfill every couple weeks.

Jay

[Darrick Robbins]

At last a subject that I have some expertise in. At the golf course we do all of the above, blow, mulch, and pick up and remove. If you have so many leaves that mulching is impractical then blow them--backpack, or large push blower depending upon acreage (unless your place is really big then a pto mounted blower will be great for your tractor). A good backpack blower (did someone say STIHL??) will do a great job with them. Last but not least you can buy lawn sweepers--don't have much experience with the gravity operated ones, but gas powered sweepers work great. As always mulching is the best if it is practical. Like the other guys mentioned just return it to the soil.
I always view leaf pickup as part of the price of woodworking--doesn't help make it any more fun but it changes perspective a little bit.:)

[Darrick Robbins]

Can't believe I forgot the one that is the most fun--burning. At the more remote (and less regulated) course I have ever worked at we would burn them in huge piles. Some of the most fun you will have working is bucket jumping (loader to leaf pile), and then starting a BIG, BIG fire.

[Chris Rosenberger]

I vac mine up with the machine pictured below. I pile them up at the edge of the field & let them lay for 2 to 3 years. By that time they turn into a black mulch that we use on flower beds & the garden. We have too many leaves to mulch them on the lawn..
The red building in the picture is one end of my shop.

[Frank Pellow]

Chris, thats quite a leaf collector. It certainly beats my rake and tarp!

But, what I really like in the picture is your shop building. You should tell us more about it (preferably with some pictures included).

[Kelly C. Hanna]

I completely agree with Per. I never rake them up...ever. They get mulched with my mower and remain there. Mother Nature lets them fall for a reason and I am not arguing with her.

[Ed Breen]

Ditto to Per!
I just get the tractor and mower and run over the leaves and over the winter they seem to disappear. Several years ago I purchased a tornado or some such marvel. It runs off my Kubota with its own suction and shredder. I used it for two seasons, but lately t has turned into a big chore as the canvas and snaps have let go. I just took the 8 hp motor into the shop and will let the rest of the apparatus rust out. Any way, I live on a dirt lane about ten miles out with only four neighbors. We are all on acreage with woods. Noone cares if the back or front yard is impeccable!!

Ed:D :D :D

[Dennis Peacock]

Ditto Per.....

they get chopped up with the mower and left to feed the lawn for the next year. Just like my gasss clippings.....they stay on the yard and feed the yard. Don't get "me" started on this subject. We spend more money on things and gadgets to help us "save our lawn" that what it would take to pay the national debt. <zipped lips and biting tongue>:rolleyes:

[Jeff Sudmeier]

I'm 110% with Per and the rest of the guys who let the stuff compost back in where it lies. I don't bag leaves or clippings. Besides the fact that I mow over an acre, when we bought this place, we weren't aware that, not only did we get a house and a shop but, the local Hilton for moles!:mad: Anything I can do to improve the looks of the lawn is totally eradicated by those useless creatures.:mad: Same goes for fertilizing. Too much of the stuff to begin with and, fertilizing makes the stuff grow thicker, faster. That, in turn, means taking more shop time away from me in more frequent mowing. Nope, I let Mother Nature take care of as much as I can!:) :cool:

John,

We used to get moles too... now you are going to laugh... but seriously....

As gently as you can, make a hole into their trench in about 10 spots and throw in about a cup of used kitty littler, then fill it back in very gently.

If you keep this up in the new tracks for a week, you will have no more moles. Apparently they can't stand the smell either!!! I wouldn't belive it, if I hadn't done it myself!

As far as leaves, I have two trees that have about 20 leaves total they stay where they fall! :)

[Joe Pelonio]

The local remedy-of-the-day for moles here is this: Take a lot of fresh mint leaves and stems, whiz them in the blender or food processor. Then place them into a pot of water and boil 1/2 hour. Then you put a cup of that into a gallon of water and pour into all the mole holes. The theory is that they hate the smell. I have not tried that yet since I do a similar trick using the sulphery smelling ortho "summer and dormant" spray and it works fine.

After leaf-blower work this weekend getting rid of all the fir needles, last night we had a storm come in with lots of rain and 25mph wind. This morning I had to hose the needles off of the truck to see enough to go to work. Until the streets weepers come thru we're having spinouts and cars in the ditch because the 1/8" layer of wet dead needles make the roads like driving on
ice. Plus some wet alder and big leaf maple leaves thrown in for good measure.

[Joe Pelonio]

The local remedy-of-the-day for moles here is this: Take a lot of fresh mint leaves and stems, whiz them in the blender or food processor. Then place them into a pot of water and boil 1/2 hour. Then you put a cup of that into a gallon of water and pour into all the mole holes. The theory is that they hate the smell. I have not tried that yet since I do a similar trick using the sulphery smelling ortho "summer and dormant" spray and it works fine.

After leaf-blower work this weekend getting rid of all the fir needles, last night we had a storm come in with lots of rain and 25mph wind. This morning I had to hose the needles off of the truck to see enough to go to work. Until the streets weepers come thru we're having spinouts and cars in the ditch because the 1/8" layer of wet dead needles make the roads like driving on ice. Plus some wet alder and big leaf maple leaves thrown in for good measure.

[Jim Becker]

If you have a mole problem...you have a grub problem. Eliminate the grubs...the moles go away since they, like we, like to eat.

[John Miliunas]

If you have a mole problem...you have a grub problem. Eliminate the grubs...the moles go away since they, like we, like to eat.

Thanks for the mole eradication tips but, after doing a whole lot of research, I'm afraid it's probably a lost cause. I tried the grub eradication (lots of $$$ on "Grub-X" this year!!!) and it didn't even appear to slow those useless pests one bit. Of course, I found more in-depth info after spending the bucks on the grub stuff. The common thread between all the sites was (is), "...if you want the moles gone, you have to kill them. One at a time!" Seems that if you "get rid of the grubs", what's really happening is, you're getting rid of the ones closest to the surface. The grubs simply go deeper for their feast of grass roots and the moles follow. Eventually, as the deterrent (Grub-X) wears off, they propagate back toward the surface. Another interesting factoid I found out is, unlike some other creatures, moles are NOT dormant through the Winter months, but simply go deeper (below frost lines) and continue to stay active!:eek: I guess maybe I'll have to invest in some of those spikey-type "traps" if I want the situation to improve any. I'm just sick 'o dem tings!!!:mad: :) :cool:

[Jim Becker]

John, have you tried beneficial nematodes? You need something that gets into the soil and stays there to keep the grubs at bay.

[John Miliunas]

John, have you tried beneficial nematodes? You need something that gets into the soil and stays there to keep the grubs at bay.

Huh????:confused: Ahhhh, no. Haven't even tried un-beneficial whatchyamacallits!:D What in the heck is that "stuff"????:confused: :) :cool:

[Jim Becker]

John, they are "really little" creatures that love to annoy and kill the grubs. While naturally occurring and otherwise benign, you need to add a whole bunch of them to your soil to deal with grubs. Any "good" garden supply (on line or local) will have them for you. They come on/in a sponge which you wet and then "water" the area you want to have them live in. They generally stay active for many years, too.

[John Miliunas]

John, they are "really little" creatures that love to annoy and kill the grubs. While naturally occurring and otherwise benign, you need to add a whole bunch of them to your soil to deal with grubs. Any "good" garden supply (on line or local) will have them for you. They come on/in a sponge which you wet and then "water" the area you want to have them live in. They generally stay active for many years, too.

Thanks, may have to try that. BUT, with my luck, the dang moles will like these sponge creatures as much as the grubs!:mad: :) :cool:

[Jim Becker]

BUT, with my luck, the dang moles will like these sponge creatures as much as the grubs!

They are microscopic... http://www.gardeners.com/Shopping/sell.asp?ProdGroupID=16246&omMerchandising=Search

[John Miliunas]

They are microscopic... http://www.gardeners.com/Shopping/sell.asp?ProdGroupID=16246&omMerchandising=Search

Yeah, BUT, can they guarantee me that I'm getting a million of them???? Like, I mean...How in the heck do they count them out for me???:confused: :D

Is this something one puts down in early Spring or what??? Looks like I may be doing some more research, after all! Thanks!:) :cool:

[Jim Becker]

Your local Agway should be able to give you the rub on the little buggers...

[JayStPeter]

John,

I don't have moles, but the stinking grubs have been killing off my lawn all on their own. I put down grub-x last fall and this spring and still had significant damage this season. I just dug some beds last month and found a ton of them.
I put down a combo of grub-x and milky spore last month. Milky spore is another soil treatment that gets rid of grubs, supposedly for around 15 years after a few rather expensive applications. Your climate is a little different than mine, so you'll have to consult your local experts to know if it works there or not.
I've been battling the grubs and sod web worms since moving in two years ago. I've put down so much bug killer that you rarely see another bug anywhere around my house except sod web worm moths and grubs/japaneese beetles.
In my last house a single grub-x treatment sent the moles to the neighbors yards within a couple weeks. I have super grubs here.

Jay

[Jim Becker]

Jay, Milky Spore was the one I couldn't think of for some reason...thanks for fixing that!!

[JayStPeter]

Jay, Milky Spore was the one I couldn't think of for some reason...thanks for fixing that!!

Right on. I'll keep the nematodes in mind if I still have problems next year. I hadn't heard of them before.

Jay

[Bob Winkler]

You guys are kidding, right? Nematodes :confused:.

If true, Jim, I am constantly amazed at your wealth of knowledge and am humbled in your presence.

Bob

Update: I just looked up and found that there is a whole subculture of beneficial bugs out there. Check out:
http://www.suburbanhabitat.com/pd_beneficial-nematodes.php

I learn so much from you guys...

[Jim Becker]

Bob, Dr. SWMBO is an avid "environmentalist" when it comes to gardening and such things and we are chemical-free with only one exception...Vine-X for poison ivy. (which is applied directly to the plant, not the surrounding area) So I learned about all these kewel natural methods from her as well as from Mike McGrath on NPR. They don't always work as well or as fast as the chemical solutions, but they do work without hurting things you don't want to hurt. For example, Round-Up is terribly deadly to frogs and similar creatures. We don't use it and Froggalina and her cousins who help populate our ponds are quite thankful!

[Ian Barley]

.... Round-Up is terribly deadly to frogs and similar creatures. We don't use it and Froggalina and her cousins who help populate our ponds are quite thankful!
And in her turn Froggalina will destroy a fair amount of the pests that you would have been trying to kill with the toxic chemicals. I am not a nut about this but believe that basically everything has something else that preys on it and if you don't throw the system too out of kilter then that predation keeps things on an even keel. I am lucky enough to have a couple of toads and at least one hedgehog that call my garden home. They keep the slugs under control - thats why I won't use chemical slug pellets - poison the slugs - poison the predators.

John - if you kill all the moles you currently have and leave the food supply - all you have done is created a nice competition free zone for new moles to move into. If you want to keep down the moles encourage predators that compete with them for the same food supply. Basically that's what Jim's nematodes will do.

[Jim Becker]

Ian, old chap...slugs just love...beer...to the point they will cheerfully drown in it! You should be able to find a little bit of that in your neck of the woods! (The hedgehog, however, will likely find it "different"... :D )

[Rob Russell]

Ian, old chap...slugs just love...beer...to the point they will cheerfully drown in it! You should be able to find a little bit of that in your neck of the woods! (The hedgehog, however, will likely find it "different"... :D )

Years ago my brother had a problem with slugs in their garden. He put out a whole bunch of plates with beer in them to drown the slugs. Being an engineer, he decided to make an experiment and put out a whole variety of bers.

So - what do we call "slug beer" now? Genesee. The plate with Genesee was loaded with slugs and all the other beers (typical assortment Bud, Miller, a Lite, etc.) just had a few slugs. It was like people flocking to the blue light special in a Kmart.

[Joe Mioux]

If you have a mole problem...you have a grub problem. Eliminate the grubs...the moles go away since they, like we, like to eat.

JIm not necessarily.

You may just have a healthy yard of grass, with lots and lots of earth worms.

Joe

[Joe Mioux]

Thanks for the mole eradication tips but, after doing a whole lot of research, I'm afraid it's probably a lost cause. I tried the grub eradication (lots of $$$ on "Grub-X" this year!!!) and it didn't even appear to slow those useless pests one bit. Of course, I found more in-depth info after spending the bucks on the grub stuff. The common thread between all the sites was (is), "...if you want the moles gone, you have to kill them. One at a time!" Seems that if you "get rid of the grubs", what's really happening is, you're getting rid of the ones closest to the surface. The grubs simply go deeper for their feast of grass roots and the moles follow. Eventually, as the deterrent (Grub-X) wears off, they propagate back toward the surface. Another interesting factoid I found out is, unlike some other creatures, moles are NOT dormant through the Winter months, but simply go deeper (below frost lines) and continue to stay active!:eek: I guess maybe I'll have to invest in some of those spikey-type "traps" if I want the situation to improve any. I'm just sick 'o dem tings!!!:mad: :) :cool:


John you are just not using the right pesticide....

I prefer Remington mole eradicator, but Winchester comes in a close second.

Joe

[John Miliunas]

John you are just not using the right pesticide....

I prefer Remington mole eradicator, but Winchester comes in a close second.

Joe

You're probably correct on that one, Joe but, no firearms in this household. NOT that I wouldn't love to use your particular brands of pesticides, LOML just despises them and she already puts up with enough of my "stuff", so I submit.:) Besides, I kind of like it here, moles and all!:D :cool:

[Carole Valentine]

One fellow in the neighborhood can be seen often following up their work

with scissors upon hands and knees.

Per Per,
Do you happen to live in my neighborhood? :D My front yard is basically woods (little to no grass) and there is a guy down the street that has asked me why I never clean all those leaves up. It apparently bugs him. I told him that Mother Nature puts those leaves there for a reason and who am I to argue with her!:)

[Ian Barley]

Ian, old chap...slugs just love...beer...to the point they will cheerfully drown in it! You should be able to find a little bit of that in your neck of the woods! (The hedgehog, however, will likely find it "different"... :D )
Jim - I am aware of the drinking proclivities of this particular molusc. Interestingly the beer tends to get the big suckers but the ones that do most of the damage are the little suckers. The toads and hedgehogs are pretty indiscriminate about size and work seven days a week. They are also more fun to be around than dishes of drowned slugs.

[Vaughn McMillan]

... dishes of drowned slugs.
Reminds me of the days when I used to hang out at bars a lot. ;)

We don't have moles, but we did have a gopher problem on the hillside below our house. We used the Yard Missile (pic attached below) get rid of them, and now we have a terraced hillside. :D

- Vaughn