Japanese plane purchasing advice

[Kevin Neff]

Long time lurking, first time posting.

Looking for japanese-plane-buying advice. I've looked at the other first-plane purchasing advice on the web. Had trouble finding stuff that had working links and planes I could actually buy. So, as a service to the internet and me, would you all please chime in with specific Tsunesaburo planes for Japanese tool n00bs.

I need planes that are suitable for preparing rough lumber (jack, scrub), jointing, smoothing, and a low-angle plane block-type for trimming end grain.

I don't want "starter" planes to try/play/fool with. I don't want super-fancy one-of-a-kind forged-in-the-moon-light-on-the-summer-solstice type planes. Nothing romantic. I just want real planes that I can use for woodworking.

I have experience sharpening plane irons and setting up wedge-type planes with a hammer.

I plan to mainly work with soft woods---pines, doug fir, cedars, and poplar.

I'm looking for tool performance, not sharpening ease.

The budget is 300-500 $ for all the planes together, not each!

Thanks for looking! Would be glad to hear any and all advice.

[Brian Holcombe]

Frankly, might be easier to start with one good plane and work from there as budget and time allow. Use a #5 jack plane in the mean time, along with #7 jointer then use the remainder to buy a good Japanese finisher and ko-ganna.

I'd be looking at un-used second hand planes or lightly used second hand planes to get something very good and remain in your budget. My favorite semi-budget maker is Takeo Nakano.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Kevin and welcome to the Creek.

The Japanese planes, at least the strange names, are a perplexing subject to me. When it comes to wooden bodied planes my experience has only recently begun with molding planes.

jtk

[Stanley Covington]

I agree with Brian that Nakano san makes good quality, reasonably priced planes. For $500 you might be able to get hold of a couple of his planes. You can find them on ebay, with some risk, or I can can get them for you with a warranty.

I own literally hundreds of Japanese planes, but prefer to use a metal-bodied plane for rough dimensioning work. This is because rough boards are frequently dirty and often have embedded grit that scratches the plane's sole. A steel sole endures this abuse better than a wooden one. Scrubbing the board's surface with a stiff steel brush helps to remove dirt and grit, but is not always enough. Also, the harder steel of Japanese plane blades can chip badly if they hit grit. Western plane blades are a lot softer, and dull quicker, but dent instead of chipping, so their blades are easier and quicker to restore when damaged.

Low angle block planes are not typically available in Japan. The low angle weakens a wooden block. A western-style block plane is a better, more durable, choice, IMO.

Stan

[Kevin Neff]

Frankly, might be easier to start with one good plane and work from there as budget and time allow. Use a #5 jack plane in the mean time, along with #7 jointer then use the remainder to buy a good Japanese finisher and ko-ganna.

I'd be looking at un-used second hand planes or lightly used second hand planes to get something very good and remain in your budget. My favorite semi-budget maker is Takeo Nakano.

Thanks for taking the time to write back!

I looked up Takeo Nakano and found a 600 $ plane. This is the kind of advice I've already found on the internet---expensive planes, specific and obscure maker names, and, in a word, ebay. Could starting carpenters in Japan actually buy one of these? I have a professional type job in the richest country in the history of the world and this 1 plane costs multiple days income after taxes. I can't imagine that a professional carpenter could afford anything of the sort. Isn't there anything more affordable out there that is serviceable and reasonable quality?

I'll take your advice, though, and look at second-hand stuff. Honestly, it's a lot of risk because I don't know what to look for. However, it may be the only way to do this on a budget.

Was really hoping to get some advice on Tsunesaburo planes, specifically because I can buy new (toolsfromjapan) and there seem to be many choices over a wide range of prices.

Again, thanks for taking the time.

[Kevin Neff]

I agree with Brian that Nakano san makes good quality, reasonably priced planes. For $500 you might be able to get hold of a couple of his planes. You can find them on ebay, with some risk, or I can can get them for you with a warranty.

I own literally hundreds of Japanese planes, but prefer to use a metal-bodied plane for rough dimensioning work. This is because rough boards are frequently dirty and often have embedded grit that scratches the plane's sole. A steel sole endures this abuse better than a wooden one. Scrubbing the board's surface with a stiff steel brush helps to remove dirt and grit, but is not always enough. Also, the harder steel of Japanese plane blades can chip badly if they hit grit. Western plane blades are a lot softer, and dull quicker, but dent instead of chipping, so their blades are easier and quicker to restore when damaged.


Duly noted.

I want to try the Japanese woodworking methods, all-in, if possible. I suppose I could use a push plane on a Japanese planing bench...

As I read your response, I started to wonder if the tradition of handling rough lumber is something that just isn't done in Japan in modern times. Could it be an anachronism that we've fallen into here in the USA? For me, it's practical---a few hand planes are cheaper, quieter, and easier to transport than proper machine tools. But maybe it's not done elsewhere. I wonder if it's part of the woodworking tradition that is simply DEAD in other countries.



Low angle block planes are not typically available in Japan. The low angle weakens a wooden block. A western-style block plane is a better, more durable, choice, IMO.


In Western tools, there's a few planes every woodworker will need. A jack, jointer, smoothing plane, and a block plane. Is there such a progression in Japanese tools? I'm really at a loss... up to this point, I've assumed that all woodworkers basically need to perform the same operations. I thought there would be a 1-to-1 mapping of Western tools. Is this so? Or is a Japanese jointing plane just have a little longer dai and a Japanese jack plane looks like other planes, but with a wider mouth, etc?

[David Wong]

Kevin,

Check out the items from the eBay seller "kanamonoya71". He will often offer good new planes in your price range. I have purchased a 70mm Nakano from him for between $200-300. Other retailers to check out are SuzukiTools.com, Twopines.net, and Hidatool.com.

You might want to look at Yamamoto planes at SuzukiTools.com. I have a Yamamoto similar to the "Katsusaburo", that I have used for both jointing and smoothing duties. It has been a very decent performer.

Buying on eBay has some risk, but I have had nothing but good experiences with kanamonoya71. He also has a website - japan tool-iida.com.

[john zulu]

Japanese planes are quite different than Western planes. Namely the wooden body and blade itself.

A few years ago I was looking high and low for each alternatives for the Japanese planes. Like the scrub,jack and jointer. What I discovered is that most planes are very much on the smoother planes for kanna. There are other dimensions like the block plane. On soft wood, you don't need to hold the blade during planing but very hard wood like jarrah you need to hold the blade itself or it will slide back up the plane.

I will target a smoother plane.

[Stanley Covington]

In Western tools, there's a few planes every woodworker will need. A jack, jointer, smoothing plane, and a block plane. Is there such a progression in Japanese tools? I'm really at a loss... up to this point, I've assumed that all woodworkers basically need to perform the same operations. I thought there would be a 1-to-1 mapping of Western tools. Is this so? Or is a Japanese jointing plane just have a little longer dai and a Japanese jack plane looks like other planes, but with a wider mouth, etc?

In every advanced country I have seen (and I get around the world), electric-powered equipment is predominant for rough dimensioning. It is simply quicker and more cost-effective. Even those communities of Amish in Ohio who are not permitted electrical tools use hydraulic-powered saws and planers driven by diesel engines or waterwheels in their very extensive woodworking enterprises.

The Japanese use electrical power tools for dimensioning lumber where space, zoning, and noise restrictions permit.

In the Japanese hand woodworking tradition, there are 3 planes used to dimension and surface lumber.

The Arashiko, meaning "roughing" plane, usually has a 60-65mm wide blade, and a shorter body. This plane can be used for many purposes, but most scrub planes are older tools with a wide mouth.

The Arashiko can also be used as a finish planes for smaller boards, depending on the mouth and blade condition.[

There is not typically a Jointer plane equivalent used for dimensioning.

The finish plane is called a "Shiage kanna" and has typically 70mm ("sunpachi" 寸八) to 80mm （"nisun" 二寸）blade. There are wider ones of course all the way up to 250mm and more. 70mm is by far the most common. There are couple of ways to set these planes up, depending on the width and type of material being finished, so it is common for a craftsman to have at least two finish planes. A minimum of 3 is normal for guys that do fine work.

And then there is the "Nagadai kanna" meaning "long block plane." This is used for finishing longer boards and for shooting edges. One side is usually thicker than the other so it will wear longer when used on its side to shoot. The nagadai, being longer, tends to get out of wack the easiest.

There are endless combinations and variations of these three planes that craftsmen use for dimensioning and finishing.

Most woodworkers, even if they use powertools, will have an arashiko or two, and a finish plane close at hand since they will do things machines cannot.

I hope this answers you particular questions

[Stanley Covington]

Thanks for taking the time to write back!

I looked up Takeo Nakano and found a 600 $ plane. This is the kind of advice I've already found on the internet---expensive planes, specific and obscure maker names, and, in a word, ebay. Could starting carpenters in Japan actually buy one of these? I have a professional type job in the richest country in the history of the world and this 1 plane costs multiple days income after taxes. I can't imagine that a professional carpenter could afford anything of the sort. Isn't there anything more affordable out there that is serviceable and reasonable quality?

I'll take your advice, though, and look at second-hand stuff. Honestly, it's a lot of risk because I don't know what to look for. However, it may be the only way to do this on a budget.

Was really hoping to get some advice on Tsunesaburo planes, specifically because I can buy new (toolsfromjapan) and there seem to be many choices over a wide range of prices.

Professional-grade tools are not cheap. Hand-made top-quality tools are expensive. Nakano's products are hand-made top-quality, but have a good balance of price/performance. He is known for this by those who have bought and used lots of Japanese planes.

Yes, Japanese craftsmen do spend that kind of money on planes... routinely. If you wonder why someone would pay $600 for a plane, then a $600 plane would not be suitable for you right now.

Ebay is frequently more expensive, and certainly less trustworthy than other options. Many of the Japanese tools sold on Ebay are seconds or rejects and/or returns that cannot be sold in Japan. Good new tools are seldom cheap. Good used tools are seldom found. Ebay is gambling, and used tools bought on Ebay are closer to roulette than craps. Caveat frikin emptor.

You asked about Tsunesaburo specifically, so here is my response: Tsunesaburo is not a small forge doing high-quality work in small quantities. It is a factory that mass-produces consumer-grade (think Home Depot) tools. Stamp, grind, heat, quench, in big lots using automated machinery. Their customer base is not professional woodworkers doing high-quality work.

Just like you won't find a high-quality Western style plane like Lie-Nielson or Veritas at Home Depot, you won't find a high-quality Tsunesaburo plane. Strictly consumer grade.

Let me make one thing clear: Tsunesaburo tools have their place. And for those with little experience with Japanese planes, they are entirely useful and a fine place to start. But don't have high expectations. Their lower-priced stuff has reasonable value, at least at the prices sold in Japan. But they have a series of planes of mediocre quality that they sell has high-quality ones at a relatively high price. The price/performance balance of these planes is not what it should be, IMO. Definitely caveat emptor, baby.

Don't sniff at Nakano just because you don't know his work. By posting to this forum, you are asking for opinions. While it is certainly OK to ignore someone's opinion, anyone's opinion, for any reason, or no reason, it is less than gracious to dismiss them in a subsequent posting. Some opinions are better informed than others. Nothing can substitute for the hard cash and long years Brian has invested in Japanese planes, and that makes his opinion on the subject worthwhile.

Stan

[Matt Lau]

Kevin,

I'll chime in, since I was in the same position as you last year.
On my end, I didn't pay myself for about a year and a half.
However, I really wanted/needed a stress outlet and found Japanese hand planes to be great.

At first, I tried to be cheap.
I bought a Tsunesaborou from Stu's New Year's sale (great price, okay plane).
I honestly didn't know why Stan likes Nakeo Takano's planes so much and was pretty (ignorantly) angry when he'd pointed me onto a plane from Iida's ebay store (kanamonoya71) instead of some others.

After I got the plane, I was humbled.

While the Tsunesaburo plane cuts well and leaves a decent finish--it's soulless, and the blades feel very machine made. These tools work, but "lack soul" for lack of a better explanation. Sorta hard to describe. I immediately sold my Tsunesaburo plane to a fellow luthier friend (who apparently works for google on office air polution, go figure).

The Takeo Nakano plane (his cheapest, simplest model) has many details that are the opposite. The dai feels honest and the blade is heftier, more solid, less bling, no attempts to appear authentic...because it is authentic.


Kevin, as for your original question:
1. What projects will you be working on?
2. What planes do you have?
3. What are your expectations?

Based on my experience--
- For rough work, nasty wood, cheap, good performance-- Mujingfang planes (with the funny crossbar).
These can double as scraping planes if you flip them.
- For jointing-- get a good metal jointing plane--I got a LV custom jointer, and love it. The LN jointer is great too. The LV LA jack is good for shorter jointing (like lutherie, almost everything plane related can be done with just that one plane and a block plane for building guitars).
- For superlative, silky fine finishes on wood and a meditative experience-- a good japanese plane is very hard to beat. A great Japanese plane really is designed for the user's pleasure.

I've been not so impressed with some of the cheap, made in india metal body planes. I haven't gotten my Infill A5 to work to my satisfaction yet (it's super heavy). I don't have a No 4 plane, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

OP, I don't know if you are getting the advice you want, but I don't think you will get better advice here than what you are getting from Stanley and Brian. Stanley's location is not a typo. Brian has made a lot of very nice things with the tools you are interested in. Off the top of my head, they are the two people on this board that I would email if I had a question about Japanese tools.

As far as I know neither has anything to gain by recommending one maker over another.

Best of luck finding something that meets your needs.

[Brian Holcombe]

Thanks for taking the time to write back!

I looked up Takeo Nakano and found a 600 $ plane. This is the kind of advice I've already found on the internet---expensive planes, specific and obscure maker names, and, in a word, ebay. Could starting carpenters in Japan actually buy one of these? I have a professional type job in the richest country in the history of the world and this 1 plane costs multiple days income after taxes. I can't imagine that a professional carpenter could afford anything of the sort. Isn't there anything more affordable out there that is serviceable and reasonable quality?

I'll take your advice, though, and look at second-hand stuff. Honestly, it's a lot of risk because I don't know what to look for. However, it may be the only way to do this on a budget.

Was really hoping to get some advice on Tsunesaburo planes, specifically because I can buy new (toolsfromjapan) and there seem to be many choices over a wide range of prices.

Again, thanks for taking the time.

You'll need to dig a little deeper. That plane is made with tamahagane steel and it is priced higher than what I'm suggesting. You may also want to hold back from making a quick leap to conclusions.

Look for Nakano made from white 1. Most, practically every smith, offer a variety of choices hugely variable in price. That said The tool choices of seemingly regular carpenters may surprise you. I talk to timber framers pretty regularly and many of them have enviable collections of top notch tools.

You're getting good advice from these folks, I would take Stan up on his offer. You would be hard pressed to find yourself in more capable hands, worth completely forgetting about eBay and what exists on there.

Thank you Stan and Nick, appreciate the kind words!

[Ted Reischl]

:::shaking head:::: "planes with no soul".....sheesh.

I was in Japan in the late 90's on business. I wandered into a hardware store on a saturday morning. After some arm waving, etc the nice lady led me to a cabinet in that had about 4 more doors under the front one. There were the planes! I bought three for ridiculously low, low prices. A chamfer plane was 2500 yen, about $25 US at the the time. A larger smoother and a smaller pocket size plane. One was about $35 and the other was $27.

Neither one has any "soul" but all of them cut very nicely. I particularly like the chamfer plane. What a great tool.

Just wondering, if a plane with "soul" is destroyed in a fire, where does the "soul" go to? Another plane or Nirvana?

[Kevin Neff]

Professional-grade tools are not cheap. Hand-made top-quality tools are expensive. Nakano's products are hand-made top-quality, but have a good balance of price/performance. He is known for this by those who have bought and used lots of Japanese planes.

Yes, Japanese craftsmen do spend that kind of money on planes... routinely. If you wonder why someone would pay $600 for a plane, then a $600 plane would not be suitable for you right now.


I was looking for evidence of my claim that it was too expensive... One example is the Canadian-pattern broad axe, which cost 2 weeks wages according to my research. A felling axe, in the same catalog, was half the cost. This could be an exception but I doubt it. Even accounting for the fact that an axe require lots of metal and that lumber jacks probably used a smaller variety of tools (and used them much harder), I'm coming to the conclusion that expensive tools are the norm.

Makes me think of the trade-off between cheap bad tools for everyone compared to expensive quality tools that only a professional tradesman could afford. If faced with the real cost of good tools, I wonder how many people could make a hobby of woodworking.

Another thought---in astronomy, the local club often refers to hobby-killer telescopes. They're high-magnification scopes with bad eyepieces and shoddy tripods. Even if you know what you're doing, these telescopes are very hard to use. Maybe cheap bad tools are like that in woodworking---a real danger to the craft.

I didn't intend to sniff at or disrespect any plane makers or sass those of you who took the time to write. Out of billions of people, I really appreciate the effort of answering my specific questions. Thanks for all the responses. Bear with me as I adjust to this new reality.

Part of my cost anxiety is that I'm realizing that I'll need a lot more than a few planes. I spent a few hours today sitting on the floor, chopping 3/4 x 4" mortises with the wrong shape chisel and trying to pare with too-short Western style bench chisels. My 500-$ budget will barely buy a few planes and I could probably spend as much on a few mortising and bench chisels and a slick. So much money. And so far, I haven't made anything worth selling!

[Stanley Covington]

I was looking for evidence of my claim that it was too expensive... One example is the Canadian-pattern broad axe, which cost 2 weeks wages according to my research. A felling axe, in the same catalog, was half the cost. This could be an exception but I doubt it. Even accounting for the fact that an axe require lots of metal and that lumber jacks probably used a smaller variety of tools (and used them much harder), I'm coming to the conclusion that expensive tools are the norm.

Makes me think of the trade-off between cheap bad tools for everyone compared to expensive quality tools that only a professional tradesman could afford. If faced with the real cost of good tools, I wonder how many people could make a hobby of woodworking.

Another thought---in astronomy, the local club often refers to hobby-killer telescopes. They're high-magnification scopes with bad eyepieces and shoddy tripods. Even if you know what you're doing, these telescopes are very hard to use. Maybe cheap bad tools are like that in woodworking---a real danger to the craft.

I didn't intend to sniff at or disrespect any plane makers or sass those of you who took the time to write. Out of billions of people, I really appreciate the effort of answering my specific questions. Thanks for all the responses. Bear with me as I adjust to this new reality.

Part of my cost anxiety is that I'm realizing that I'll need a lot more than a few planes. I spent a few hours today sitting on the floor, chopping 3/4 x 4" mortises with the wrong shape chisel and trying to pare with too-short Western style bench chisels. My 500-$ budget will barely buy a few planes and I could probably spend as much on a few mortising and bench chisels and a slick. So much money. And so far, I haven't made anything worth selling!

You don't have to buy a $600 plane to do good work and enjoy woodworking. It takes more effort and caution to buy useful tools at the lower price ranges, though. Used tools are a good way to go. Flea markets, pawn shops, and yard sales can yield good tools at low prices. I have a few tools picked out of buckets in pawnshops remaining from my days as a starving engineering student that I still use, and perform very well indeed. But if you go this route, Japanese tools will be few and far between.

[Matt Lau]

You don't have to buy a $600 plane to do good work and enjoy woodworking. It takes more effort and caution to buy useful tools at the lower price ranges, though. Used tools are a good way to go. Flea markets, pawn shops, and yard sales can yield good tools at low prices. I have a few tools picked out of buckets in pawnshops remaining from my days as a starving engineering student that I still use, and perform very well indeed. But if you go this route, Japanese tools will be few and far between.

I don't disagree.
Most of my Japanese planing is done with a pair of planes that I'd picked up in Sacramento of Craigslist for $50. I don't know the maker, but they sharpen easily and hold an edge well.

However, I've also been burned trying to chase many "bargains."
I appreciate guidance from people that know more than me.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Part of my cost anxiety is that I'm realizing that I'll need a lot more than a few planes. I spent a few hours today sitting on the floor, chopping 3/4 x 4" mortises with the wrong shape chisel and trying to pare with too-short Western style bench chisels. My 500-$ budget will barely buy a few planes and I could probably spend as much on a few mortising and bench chisels and a slick. So much money. And so far, I haven't made anything worth selling!

Nobody knows what you are trying to do, so I don't know if anyone is in a position to give you advice about what to buy, and what you can get along without.

Mortise chisels do not have to cost a mint. One or two are enough, and you can get very high quality antiques from Jim Bode for about $30-$40. If you buy the new Ray Iles mortise chisels that will use a large chunk of your budget. A regular bench chisel will work fine until you can afford them.

A high quality paring chisel will cost a lot, but you can do a heck of a lot of paring with quality bench chisels. The Ashley Iles bench chisels are about $30-$35 each, brand new, and are very good.

If you live in the U.S., good quality used tools are available, but they are going to be western makers. If you want to do everything Japanese, you will have less of a used tool supply, and everything will cost more. Just like I would presume you do not find a Bailey No. 4 under every rock in Japan.

Good deals can be had, but you have to be patient. As the old saying goes: "You can have it good, fast, or cheap. Pick two."

[Stanley Covington]

Nobody knows what you are trying to do, so I don't know if anyone is in a position to give you advice about what to buy, and what you can get along without.

Mortise chisels do not have to cost a mint. One or two are enough, and you can get very high quality antiques from Jim Bode for about $30-$40. If you buy the new Ray Iles mortise chisels that will use a large chunk of your budget. A regular bench chisel will work fine until you can afford them.

A high quality paring chisel will cost a lot, but you can do a heck of a lot of paring with quality bench chisels. The Ashley Iles bench chisels are about $30-$35 each, brand new, and are very good.

If you live in the U.S., good quality used tools are available, but they are going to be western makers. If you want to do everything Japanese, you will have less of a used tool supply, and everything will cost more. Just like I would presume you do not find a Bailey No. 4 under every rock in Japan.

Good deals can be had, but you have to be patient. As the old saying goes: "You can have it good, fast, or cheap. Pick two."

Well said.

Stan

[William Fretwell]

Kevin, you did not mention your country of affluence. Yes it's wonderful to afford the best but starting out with your budget that simply won't happen.
Most people on here have some other career to fund their love of working with wood. Very few pay for their tools by working with them, that can take a lifetime. Persuading your customers to pay top prices for your craft is never easy and takes a long time.
I have watched many Japanese craftsmen videos and to be productive they happily resort to machines for the grunt work and then switch to hand tools for the final fitting. They have to be productive, they have to be affordable, if they are not someone else will be.
Four guys started a furniture business near my space, their claim to fame was using reclaimed wood from barns and old buildings. They would dismantle the barn etc to get the wood. The sheer fact that their raw material cost them so much in time and had a considerable waste factor escaped their thought process. I pointed this out to them and they needed to charge double to survive. They did not survive more than 4 months as people expected to pay less for recycled wood.
If you want to do this to make money look at your market and understand how that might be possible.
One benefit of working with wood is you can do a lot with very little, it will take longer, be less productive and may not be first rate. It will however still make you happy while you slowly improve your tools and skill. Most of us have limited budgets so you are not alone!

[Brian Holcombe]

There are collectors buying Mokume this and file worked that and some crazy things, but for the most part it's been my experience that people who are buying otherwise plain looking but nicely detailed and high quality tools are typically professionals. To some, a tool is a tool and that's the end of it, but to others they obsess over their tools and their hobby seems to be buying tools to use professionally.

This has no bearing on the OP's budget, but thought I would throw in my 2 cents since it is often assumed that professionals only budget themselves a cheap set of tools to work with an only collectors buy the "good" tools.

[William Fretwell]

My experience in Canada is the majority of high quality tools are probably bought by affluent hobbyists. Professionals certainly buy some of the same high quality tools but regular losses at job sites get expensive and curtail their budgets. One large tool rental place near me supplying local industry has so much of their inventory stolen on site and the client gets to replace it the tools never wear out. The big companies would rent tools for the tradesmen and then have to replace them, it became so bad now the tradesmen have to buy their own tools.
Not being a collector each tool has to be justified for a task. Main tools need to be the best you can afford. The #5 Plane and low angle block should be good. The smoother very good. Various chisel qualities are useful for different tasks. I would spend more on very good saws as the choices are so limited, the low end is dismal.
As most tool buyers are men and women outlive them there should be a lot of great, lightly used tools being sold off by their wives. If their wives were told anything it was that the tool cost $100 less than it did.
I think most hobbyists see buying top tools as a shortcut to skill; it helps, but Japanese planes are not so easy to tune. Top tools really perform in skilled hands.

[Jim Koepke]

I think most hobbyists see buying top tools as a shortcut to skill

Sadly this is all too true. The other side of this is a lot of my skill was built from buying inexpensive second hand tools and learning how to tune them up to their top performance. Of course my century old Stanley/Bailey planes are not as nice as their modern siblings. Though when all is said and done there is no way of seeing any difference in the finished work beyond the skill of the person who made it.

One thing learned in this is some of the lesser made tools will not perform to the standards of their contemporaries or well made modern tools.

Always remember the words of John Ruskin:


There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey.

One can usually find old metal hand planes for very little money. One can buy a much nicer modern hand plane to do the same job for as much more as they are willing to spend.

It would take a lot of cabinets to pay for a Karl Holtey smoother at ~$3750 - $7400.

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/karl_holtey_tools.htm

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/karl_holtey_planes.htm

Surely the same contrast exists in the quality of low cost and premium Japanese planes. Some of the more economically priced Japanese planes may be a good value as a user. Some may be a waste of time and money.

jtk

[Michael Todrin]

Kevin,

i am am no expert on Kanna and am only about six months into working with them. I find that planing on the pull stroke offers a great deal of control and is very pleasant. After some extensive research I ended up buying a $40 dollar plane on the auction site. This decision was largely based on Brian's blog about tuning the kanna, which is excellent and informative. It helped me realize that I wanted to practice setting up and tuning a plane (and potentially messing it up and having to cut a new dai) before spending a lot of money on one. After several hours with chisels, flattening plate, card scrapers and straight edges it is running very well and producing a lovely finish.

Just my two cent another way of going at the learning curve of a new tool..

[Brian Holcombe]

Glad to hear that you found my posts helpful!

[Kevin Neff]

Thanks for the advice.

After looking around, I found 48 and 75 mm planes by Takeo Nakano. I got them from Two Pines Trading Co. in Greensboro, NC. Paid about 400 for both of them. They're good tools and I am enjoying using them. It's been fun to put into practice some of what I've been reading for several years.

Decided to upgrade from the 220/1200 combination stone. So that's not cheap. And now I decided I'll have to get some proper chisels. This is getting expensive and sometimes I think I should just stop. But curiosity and the experience so-far has lured me in.

Some additional advice I've gleaned is that there are 3 categories of planes. Under 100 is questionable quality. Between 100 and 500 is generally significant improvement ~ per dollar spent. And over 500 is generally for rare items, famous smiths, etc.

In my own experience, it seems that other items have these levels. With booze, for example, the 12-$ liter of whiskey in a plastic bottle on the bottom shelf is clearly not advisable. And a neophyte should not be advised to spend 500 $ on a famous and rare bottle of scotch. But there's a lot in the middle. I like to find the breaking point in the curve---on one side, there is improvement for additional cost; on the other, it simply a matter of luxury or status. For bourbon, I think the breaking point is about 40 $ for a 750 mL.

[Brian Holcombe]

Yes and No, in my experience. There are many work horse type planes, though highly refined, that are well over $500. So it's not so easy to simply say that over a certain price threshold you are paying for romantic notions or rarity. Instead I like to look at it on an individual basis based on quality and performance.

I tend to like things like cold forging skill, hardness and durability, quality of finish, quality of the dai that it is supplied with, quality of steel. Other things that show the expertise of the maker, like forge black left on the ura and neat detail to the outside perimeter of the blade, or having been finished with a sen (scraper) on the ura. It's also nice if they've worked the blade in a way which allows easy setup and allows ito-ura. I don't like it when they arrive with a thick land around the ura.

I tend not to care about things like exceptionally rare steels, carved patterns or images, mokume or unusual dai wood.

[Spencer Nelson]

This discussion about tool quality has been really great. It brings to mind this bit from Toshio Odate's book, Japanese Woodworking Tools, describing his first purchase of a really top-quality tool during his apprenticeship as a shoji maker:


"All daily needs were to be taken care of by the master during the apprenticeship. There was little reason to have money, but by my third year, I had nevertheless saved some given to me by my master and others for doing errands. On the first and fifteenth day of the month, we would take a half day off, but only after the shop (which was often the customer's yard) and all the tools were cleaned. This was usually about two o'clock, and you can imagine how precious those hours were to me. One afternoon, I took the train to a store that was well known for its fine tools. There I purchased a plane made by a famous blacksmith. Being young and inexperienced, I did not know the reputation of the smith or the fine quality of his tools. I knew only that the plane was expensive.

On the train, I was so happy with my purchase that I unwrapped the plane and held and looked at it all the way home. I knew I would have to keep the plane a secret, for people would laugh at the beginner who bought a tool he did not yet know how to use properly. I couldn't even keep the plane in my toolbox for fear someone would see it. So I enjoyed the plane every evening in my room, and kept it by my bedside.

One day it was raining, and everyone was in the shop and fixing tools. I don't remember why - it wasn't a day off - but the plane was in my toolbox. Though I was pretending to be working, I had difficulty keeping my mind on my job, so I was continually looking at my plane. Suddenly, my master was standing beside me; he asked about the plane, and I had to tell him that I'd bought it. Immediately he took it from me and showed it to the other shokunin in the shop - they all thought it was a wonderful tool. After they talked together about it for a long time, the plane was given back to my master. Holding the plane in his hand, my master came to me and told me simply that it was too good for me. As I expected, I never saw the plane again.

Tools are made to be used, and great tools are made to be used by great craftsmen. That plane was not for me, and I should not have owned it simply to keep it hidden away. It was a painful and expensive lesson to learn, but I know now that I should have had greater respect for the tool and its creator. Such respect did not mean allowing the tool to be idle.


While new to Japanese woodworking, I think there is no shame in buying modest "merely good" tools like Tsunesaburo planes and Gyokucho saws. I actually think it's entirely appropriate. Just be willing to accept the idea that, if you continue down the Japanese tradition, you will probably buy a much-nicer upgrade in a few years which will replace the apprentice-level plane you buy today. Then, you'll actually be in a position to appreciate it.