Whiteside 9700, MuscleChuck, Magnate Eliminator RC QR Router Chuck - Difference?

[Ben Rivel]

So somehow I missed that any of these products existed and after finding out about them I'm now considering picking one up for my Porter Cable 7518 that lives in my router table. I have a couple of questions though. After researching these quick change/release router chucks it seems there are four companies all selling the same product but I have not been able to confirm that. So far I have found the following:



Whiteside 9700 (LINK (http://www.carbideprocessors.com/quick-change-router-collet-1-2-porter-cable-whiteside-9700/))
MuscleChuck SHA0002 Eliminator RC (LINK (http://www.musclechuck.com/))
Magnate Eliminator RC (LINK (https://www.magnate.net/SearchResults.asp?Cat=660198))
The Eliminator Chuck (LINK (http://www.eliminatorchuck.com/))


I realize there was some history with this product and the patent being sold off by the original inventor a number of years ago, but what I'm wondering is whether or not all these products are actually the same and have just been rebranded. They all cost about the same and look the same in photos but that isn't enough to confirm.

Also I'm interested in hearing from any of you out there that own and use any of these and how you like them.

[Nick Decker]

Can't speak to any of those but the Muscle Chuck, which I think is the original. I use one just about every day in my PC 7518, in a table, and also have one on my Bosch 1617, which used to be in the table (and now doesn't get used near as much). Like a collet, you need to keep it clean, but it works great. Haven't touched a collet wrench in ages.

[Nick Decker]

Couple of thing to add: It adds a little over an inch in height, which might or might not be good for you. With my router lift, it's not an issue either way.

Installation is critical, as far as not over tightening when you screw it on to your router shaft, but that's covered in the instructions.

[Ben Rivel]

Can't speak to any of those but the Muscle Chuck, which I think is the original. I use one just about every day in my PC 7518, in a table, and also have one on my Bosch 1617, which used to be in the table (and now doesn't get used near as much). Like a collet, you need to keep it clean, but it works great. Haven't touched a collet wrench in ages.


Couple of thing to add: It adds a little over an inch in height, which might or might not be good for you. With my router lift, it's not an issue either way.

Installation is critical, as far as not over tightening when you screw it on to your router shaft, but that's covered in the instructions.Thank you Nick, good info.

[Bruce Page]

I have the Musclechuck, Type 1. No complaints, it works as advertised. I checked it for concentricity when I got it and it was running at .0002 - pretty near perfect. If you are going to run 1/4" shank bits you have to be careful of which adapter collet you use - I learned that the hard way. I had a no-name adapter that would not grip.:eek: I bought a Whiteside #6400 adapter that works well.

[Ben Rivel]

I have the Musclechuck, Type 1. No complaints, it works as advertised. I checked it for concentricity when I got it and it was running at .0002 - pretty near perfect. If you are going to run 1/4" shank bits you have to be careful of which adapter collet you use - I learned that the hard way. I had a no-name adapter that would not grip.:eek: I bought a Whiteside #6400 adapter that works well.Will definitely be ordering the Whiteside 6400 with whichever option I go with. I have been planning to go with the Whiteside 9700 but I'm holding off a bit to see if anyone can confirm all four are actually the same.

[Nick Decker]

Ben, if I'm remembering correctly (toss up!), the inventor of the Muscle Chuck was a machinist in the racing community. Just felt there had to be a better way than collet wrenches. If the other versions are the same, it may be the same guy, don't know.

I can tell you that I've never had an instance of a bit slipping or acting up in any way. And there is no doubt in my mind that the MC is a better solution than the collet that came with my 7518. That thing looked like it was trying to fall apart just sitting there.

[Ben Rivel]

Ben, if I'm remembering correctly (toss up!), the inventor of the Muscle Chuck was a machinist in the racing community. Just felt there had to be a better way than collet wrenches. If the other versions are the same, it may be the same guy, don't know.

I can tell you that I've never had an instance of a bit slipping or acting up in any way. And there is no doubt in my mind that the MC is a better solution than the collet that came with my 7518. That thing looked like it was trying to fall apart just sitting there.Yea the history is mentioned here post #5. Still can't confirm if all these different versions are the same or not unfortunately.

[Nick Decker]

I used to frequent those forums (no relation to the Nick that posts over there), which is where I first came across the MC. For some reason, their forum software was wreaking havoc on the tablet I use for the 'net, so I quit going.

If you do get the MC, don't bother with the Allen wrench they sell. Any 4mm will work, but I'd recommend one with a ball head and T-handle.

[Ben Rivel]

I used to frequent those forums (no relation to the Nick that posts over there), which is where I first came across the MC. For some reason, their forum software was wreaking havoc on the tablet I use for the 'net, so I quit going.

If you do get the MC, don't bother with the Allen wrench they sell. Any 4mm will work, but I'd recommend one with a ball head and T-handle.Was planning to buy a Wera Ball End 5/32" driver: (LINK (https://www.kctoolco.com/wera-022905-5-32-x-100mm-kraftform-plus-ball-end-hex-screwdriver/))

Or even cooler: LINK (https://www.kctoolco.com/wera-022714-5-32-x-137mm-stainless-steel-ball-end-hex-l-key/)

[Bruce Page]

I'm a bit of a Tim Taylor type, (grunt grunt). I wouldn't trust getting it tight enough with a screwdriver ball driver.

[Ben Rivel]

I'm a bit of a Tim Taylor type, (grunt grunt). I wouldn't trust getting it tight enough with a screwdriver ball driver.As I understand it over tightening the collet screws on these chucks is a bit of a problem. They say in the manual they supposedly that they should only be tightened 1/4 turn with an allen wrench. Apparently the bolts will bend easily from over tightening despite them being made of quality material. Thats why I was thinking a ball end driver might be perfect to help keep me from tightening too much.

[Bruce Page]

As long as the bit doesn't slip you're golden. IIRC, they recommend an "L" type wrench.
A #10 cap screw standard torque is ~30 inch-pounds. That would be hard to do with a screwdriver, at least for me.

[Andy Giddings]

Musclechuck works perfectly for me - using a PC 7518 in a router table and I no longer need to take one of the Bench Dog router plate collars out to tighten the bit

[Nick Decker]

As I understand it over tightening the collet screws on these chucks is a bit of a problem. They say in the manual they supposedly that they should only be tightened 1/4 turn with an allen wrench. Apparently the bolts will bend easily from over tightening despite them being made of quality material. Thats why I was thinking a ball end driver might be perfect to help keep me from tightening too much.

Ben, not sure which one of these you're referring to, but with the Muscle Chuck it's the nut that attaches the MC to the router shaft that you shouldn't over tighten (12 ft. lbs.). They say to tighten it about 1/4 turn past hand tight. The cap screw that you use the Allen wrench on (to secure the bit) is rated to 125 ft. lbs., which is why I use the T-handle on it.

[Ben Rivel]

Ben, not sure which one of these you're referring to, but with the Muscle Chuck it's the nut that attaches the MC to the router shaft that you shouldn't over tighten (12 ft. lbs.). They say to tighten it about 1/4 turn past hand tight. The cap screw that you use the Allen wrench on (to secure the bit) is rated to 125 ft. lbs., which is why I use the T-handle on it.Gotcha. I think I mis-understood whatever it was I read. You are correct as per the instructions listed at MuscleChuck's website: LINK (http://www.musclechuck.com/musclechuck-assembly-instructions/)

[Andy Giddings]

Gotcha. I think I mis-understood whatever it was I read. You are correct as per the instructions listed at MuscleChuck's website: LINK (http://www.musclechuck.com/musclechuck-assembly-instructions/)
I've found a quarter turn or less is about all you need with the cap screw that clamps the bit as well. A normal size Allen wrench tends to limit the torque to about that.

[Nick Decker]

Yeah, once that cap screw starts to tighten, there's not much more movement involved. I use about the same amount of force that I would with a regular collet wrench. About 70 to 80 ft. lbs., according to my highly imprecise muscle memory.

[Dave Richards]

I've got Eliminators on two of my routers and like them very much. No problem with balance or getting the router clamped tight. I also have an Eliminator XL for my DW625 which is nice when I want slightly more reach on the Router Boss. I got my Eliminators from the Router Boss (http://www.chipsfly.com/category/RC.html) folks.

Yesterday I was using a Trend extender in the Eliminator on my DW625 on the Router Boss. It was very nice to have the length and it was perfectly balanced.

[James Zhu]

I bought MuscleChuck at Rockler , works perfectly. I followed the instruction video, was able to get the runout to 0.002".

http://www.rockler.com/quick-change-musclechucktrade-musclechuck

I have the Bondhus 4mm ball end tip with t-handle, high quality. It was $6.68 when I bought it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RBGEINQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Ben Rivel]

Think Im gonna give Whiteside a call tomorrow and ask them the story behind all these different brands of what looks to be the same product. Hopefully they can confirm something. I'll post back with whatever I can find out.

[Nick Decker]

I've been using these for a couple of years now, and keep waiting to hear why they're not a good thing. Other than extending the bit height, I haven't heard or read a thing. I'm a bit surprised we're not seeing them offered on new machines.

[Ben Rivel]

Just got off the phone with Whiteside and the gentleman I spoke to there (Todd) said they buy their 9700 from The Eliminator Chuck company and that the MuscleChuck was created by a guy who used to work for The Eliminator Chuck company, broke off and made his own version and changed how the collet screw works a bit. I'm guessing the Magnate Eliminator RC is just one of those two versions.

So that being said I think I'm going to go ahead and go with the Whiteside 9700. I'm a big Whiteside fan anyway so that works for me.

[Nick Decker]

Well, that's a different story than what I heard, but who knows? FWIW, I'm a big fan of Whiteside myself.

[Ben Rivel]

Well, that's a different story than what I heard, but who knows? FWIW, I'm a big fan of Whiteside myself.Do tell! What did you hear?

[Nick Decker]

It goes back to when I first heard of the MuscleChuck, in the Router Forums. One of the mods there (maybe the owner?) became acquainted with the guy who invented it. The story was that the inventor's background was in machining parts for racing, nothing to do with the Eliminator company. But, that's not to say that that story was true, or that Tod's story isn't.

Knowing Whiteside's quality, I really doubt they would get behind anything second rate.

As an aside: I mentioned the 4mm Allen wrench I've been using. You mentioned, I think, a 5/32" wrench, which made me wonder about that. Turns out that while a 4mm will work, a 5/32" fits better, less slop. Gracias! (Note that this applies to my MuscleChuck unit; the Whiteside/Eliminator may be different.)

[Ben Rivel]

Okay, reading more into this thread that I mentioned earlier, I think I understand the difference better. The Whiteside/Eliminator version has the older design bit retention that looks like this:

360312

Whereas the MuscleChuck/Magnate SHA0002 looks like this:

360314

Notice the split in the MuscleChuck version? That changes how the unit grips the router bit and is apparently a much stronger design with less likelihood of marring the shank of the router bit.

So I guess Im leaning towards the MuscleChuck now.

[Bruce Page]

Mine has the split like your second picture.

[Ben Rivel]

Mine has the split like your second picture.You said earlier that you had the MuscleChuck, so that checks out.

[Dave Richards]

As I said before, I've got several of the Eliminator chucks. I've never seen any marring on the shanks of my router bits. I wonder if that's a real problem or not.

[Ben Rivel]

As I said before, I've got several of the Eliminator chucks. I've never seen any marring on the shanks of my router bits. I wonder if that's a real problem or not.Who knows. Could be propaganda the guy with the new patent put out to talk down the old patent.

[Nick Decker]

Mine has the split, too.