Return Stanley 750 Chisels?

[Steve Mathews]

I'm considering returning the new Stanley 750 chisel set purchased a few weeks ago and replacing them with something of better quality. The set was purchased after reading several positive reviews. Several of them also mentioned that the protective coating on the steel was tough to remove. I didn't realize how tough until giving it a go myself. I've soaked one of the chisels in lacquer thinner and acetone for a day but it takes a good amount of rubbing with steel wool to finally lift off the protective film. Before returning the chisels is there a better way to get rid of the coating? Are chisels from Lie Nielsen and other quality manufacturers coated with the same stuff. I would gladly pay twice what was paid for the 750s if I didn't have to go through this exercise and not flatten the backs.

[Frank Martin]

My LN and Veritas chisels did not come with the coating. Do you think scraping with razor may be easier, if it is such a thick coating?

[Steve Mathews]

My LN and Veritas chisels did not come with the coating. Do you think scraping with razor may be easier, if it is such a thick coating?

How much effort did you have to go through to prepare the chisels; flatten the backs, etc?

[Jason Ost]

Didn't have a problem with mine, there was no protective coating. I just had to flatten the backs and sharpen.

[Frank Martin]

How much effort did you have to go through to prepare the chisels; flatten the backs, etc?
Very little. Both sets had flat backs. Veritas was better. Took may be 3 mins to do final honing on each. I sold my LN set after getting the Veritas PMV-11 set.

[Steve Mathews]

Didn't have a problem with mine, there was no protective coating. I just had to flatten the backs and sharpen.

You're one of the lucky ones based on what I've read from other owners. But are you sure that it had no protective coating? Mine was clear and virtually undetectable until soaking it in solvent and partially exposing bare steel. If that coating gets into a sharpening stone you might have a real mess on your hands.

I finally was able to remove most if not all of the coating on one chisel after repeated soaking in lacquer thinner, scraping with a razor (Frank - Thanks for the suggestion) and rubbing with steel wool.

[Steve Mathews]

Very little. Both sets had flat backs. Veritas was better. Took may be 3 mins to do final honing on each. I sold my LN set after getting the Veritas PMV-11 set.

Any particular reason why you chose the Veritas chisels over the LNs? I'm seriously considering giving up on the 750s and replacing them with either the Veritas, LN or IBC set. The later just became known to me after watching a Rob Cosman video.

[ken hatch]

I'm considering returning the new Stanley 750 chisel set purchased a few weeks ago and replacing them with something of better quality. The set was purchased after reading several positive reviews. Several of them also mentioned that the protective coating on the steel was tough to remove. I didn't realize how tough until giving it a go myself. I've soaked one of the chisels in lacquer thinner and acetone for a day but it takes a good amount of rubbing with steel wool to finally lift off the protective film. Before returning the chisels is there a better way to get rid of the coating? Are chisels from Lie Nielsen and other quality manufacturers coated with the same stuff. I would gladly pay twice what was paid for the 750s if I didn't have to go through this exercise and not flatten the backs.

Steve,

From what I'm reading you would not be returning the chisels because of defects and you would return chisels that were not in as sold condition. If I were the seller that would be enough to write you off and maybe refuse to accept the return. From a looking at myself in the mirror each morning that one is a no brainer. If you don't like the chisels sell 'em at a small loss and go on down the road.

As to the new 750's, they are not the best but are a long way from bad chisels. In fact if the chose was between the 750's and LN the 750's would win in a heartbeat for no other reason the LN's are A-2 which limits the ability to sharpen at lower angles and limits the usable sharpening medium. There are a lot of good chisels on the market with different steel and chisels are very personal, buy one to try until you find a make that works for your sharpening system and your use. Then complete your set.

ken

[Noah Magnuson]

Any particular reason why you chose the Veritas chisels over the LNs? I'm seriously considering giving up on the 750s and replacing them with either the Veritas, LN or IBC set. The later just became known to me after watching a Rob Cosman video.
The main difference is going to be the PM-V11 available on the Veritas. Also, there are some handle differences, but individual ergonomic preferences aside, the PM-V11 option is the major difference between the LV and LN offerings. They both should have dead flat backs out of the box and require only a final honing. I have the Veritas, and they are fine chisels with nice handles. LN should also be a very fine set.

[Steve Mathews]

Steve,

From what I'm reading you would not be returning the chisels because of defects and you would return chisels that were not in as sold condition. If I were the seller that would be enough to write you off and maybe refuse to accept the return. From a looking at myself in the mirror each morning that one is a no brainer. If you don't like the chisels sell 'em at a small loss and go on down the road.

ken

The obnoxious coating is a defect IMHO. There is no reason that I can think of for a manufacturer to use it, especially considering when it's generally accepted that a chisel has to be prepared before use. Other manufacturers seem to get by without it. I wouldn't feel right just passing along the problem to someone else. Thanks for convincing me to send them back.

[Pat Barry]

The obnoxious coating is a defect IMHO. There is no reason that I can think of for a manufacturer to use it, especially considering when it's generally accepted that a chisel has to be prepared before use. Other manufacturers seem to get by without it. I wouldn't feel right just passing along the problem to someone else. Thanks for convincing me to send them back.
Why do you say its a defect? What does Stanley say about it? Do their instructions say to remove it? What method do they recommend?

[Jim Koepke]

The obnoxious coating is a defect IMHO.

Tool makers have been using a protective coating for as long as I can remember.

One person's 'defect' is another person's feature.

In effect, you will be returning them because you do not like the packaging.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Maybe the "coating" doesn't say it is from LV or L-N?

soon as whatever it is( lacquer?) comes off...it might start to rust....then they'd have to maintain it....horrors.

[Steve Mathews]

Why do you say its a defect? What does Stanley say about it? Do their instructions say to remove it? What method do they recommend?

It is a defect for the reasons provided earlier.
I can't find anything on Stanley's website about the coating and nothing was included (instructions) with the chisels mentioning a coating.

I already have a return address label from the seller and will be sending everything back tomorrow. The reason for the return was included with my request.

[george wilson]

My old 1965Marples chisels had such a thin coating of lacquer on them,i didn't really notice it until the coating wore off in spots and the steel became a bit darker. I have never bothered to mess with this very thin coating.

Some makers,like Hirsch and 2 cherries,really lay on a very thick coating which I really dislike. I haven't worked with a set of the new Stanleys,so I don't know about their coating. I have seen them hanging in racks in the millwork shop at the museum,but never used them. They seemed very accurately ground,though.

Every time a carpenter in the museum retired,he'd get a new set of those Stanleys !

[ken hatch]

My old 1965Marples chisels had such a thin coating of lacquer on them,i didn't really notice it until the coating wore off in spots and the steel became a bit darker. I have never bothered to mess with this very thin coating.

Some makers,like Hirsch and 2 cherries,really lay on a very thick coating which I really dislike. I haven't worked with a set of the new Stanleys,so I don't know about their coating. I have seen them hanging in racks in the millwork shop at the museum,but never used them. They seemed very accurately ground,though.

Every time a carpenter in the museum retired,he'd get a new set of those Stanleys !

George,

They are good chisels, lands are a little thick and they are made from mystery steel (I expect Chrome and something) but they take a good edge reasonably easily and hold it. They do not fit my hand as well as some others but the handles can take a licking without damage. I'm not hard on chisel handles but I have split two of the LV handles (LV replaced one and I expect will replace the other when I get around to sending it back), they are the only ones I've split in years and years of chopping mortises and cleaning up dovetails.

I have a set, they are not used much because there are other chisels in my rack that I like better but there is nothing wrong with 'em.

ken

[David farmer]

I'm on board with the OP.
Often deciding on one tool over another involves an estimate of the time required to make it ready for use. I have experienced the "obnoxious, insoluble coating on hand saws. It was sticky in the kerf and made the saw unusable unless it was removed first.
Sending a message to producers so they at least consider the implications for end users is reasonable and useful even if they don't offer a refund.

[steven c newman]

I keep hearing the same things...

Grind the bevel back to get to the "good steel"......why? Did you grind it first before checking, simply because others said to do it?


Had to flatten the back.....again, did you check the back first, or just start in because others say so.

Those Aldi's Chisels I bought 2 years ago? barely needed any flattening of the back, there was no "Mystery Coating" on the steel, other than a silkscreen logo.

Send them back...don't expect a dime out of it, though. I doubt very much if Stanley will, unless you call/email ahead of time. A coating is NOT a defect in workmanship, it is there to protect the steel from rust. Like from sweaty fingers pawing at it.

Sooo, what exactly is the reason this "coating" is a defect? The saws mention above were coated with a non-stick surface, also to protect against corrosion for less than dry lumber. The ONLY obnoxious coatings I have seen is where someone paints a scene on a vintage saw....imagine "Barn scene" on a Disston D-12....( I saw THAT yesterday....BTW)

Take a darn razor blade and scrape the stuff off the chisel......might take a wee bit of elbow grease.....maybe you can special order a barrel of it....

[ken hatch]

I keep hearing the same things...

Grind the bevel back to get to the "good steel"......why? Did you grind it first before checking, simply because others said to do it?


Had to flatten the back.....again, did you check the back first, or just start in because others say so.

Those Aldi's Chisels I bought 2 years ago? barely needed any flattening of the back, there was no "Mystery Coating" on the steel, other than a silkscreen logo.

Send them back...don't expect a dime out of it, though. I doubt very much if Stanley will, unless you call/email ahead of time. A coating is NOT a defect in workmanship, it is there to protect the steel from rust. Like from sweaty fingers pawing at it.

Sooo, what exactly is the reason this "coating" is a defect? The saws mention above were coated with a non-stick surface, also to protect against corrosion for less than dry lumber. The ONLY obnoxious coatings I have seen is where someone paints a scene on a vintage saw....imagine "Barn scene" on a Disston D-12....( I saw THAT yesterday....BTW)

Take a darn razor blade and scrape the stuff off the chisel......might take a wee bit of elbow grease.....maybe you can special order a barrel of it....

Steve,

Way to cut to the chase ROTFLMAO.

It might have a better outcome if they stopped reading and went to the shop and put metal to wood. It is amazing what you can learn by doing that.

ken

[Steve Mathews]

I don't know what coating Stanley uses or why they chose to use something so difficult to remove but there are better alternatives. Others have mentioned in this thread that Lie Nielsen and Veritas don't have this type of obnoxious coating and their chisels seem to survive worldwide transit without undue harm. I realize they cost more but as I stated earlier I'm willing to spend more in order to not have to deal with this problem.

[Steve Mathews]

Steve,

Way to cut to the chase ROTFLMAO.

It might have a better outcome if they stopped reading and went to the shop and put metal to wood. It is amazing what you can learn by doing that.

ken


Ken - You must mean "put protective coating to the wood" in the case of a Stanley 750.

[Jim Koepke]

Way to cut to the chase ROTFLMAO.

Ditto!

jtk

[John Kananis]

I have this set, it replaced my blue-handled Marples (those with the white ring). Mine came with instructions to soak in lacquer thinner - that didn't work so well. I found that citrus stripper worked best (thick orange stuff sold at all the usual suspects) - coated the steel, waited about an hour and the coating wiped right off with a paper towel. I've really enjoyed these chisels and the edge can take a very decent beating before deteriorating; touching them up takes only a few seconds - literally less than 15 or 20 seconds on the finest medium most often.

[george wilson]

I'm wondering if those protective coatings are epoxy based since they seem so hard to get off.I haven't had the pleasure of dealing with these coatings, except the very thin lacquer coating on my 1965 Marples(they probably hadn't developed bullet proof coatings by then!) Its when they get half worn off and you have a splotchy looking tool that it comes home to roost.

AS you can see,my post is exactly WORTHLESS towards solving your problem!! I WONDER(BE CAREFUL HERE) if paint REMOVER would get rid of the coatings? But beware,the paint remover might turn your steel some BAD COLOR. Proceed carefully. That old stuff we used when I was young would take ANYTHING OFF. But,now outlawed as far as I know. But the MOST OBNOXIOUS SMELLING paint remover is always the best. Maybe you could send to Mexico for some REALLY EVIL STUFF!!!!:):):)

I think we have gone WAY TOO FAR on the safety bit. We had a room in the Toolmaker's Shop where there had been a small lunch room for the maintenance men years before. It s only trace was the vinyl tile left on the floor. We wanted it removed,but I didn't know what I was asking for! They decided that that tile contained ASBESTOS(OH WORRY WORRY WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!) The asbestos was firmly mixed into the vinyl,and there was NO WAY it was going to get loose and float about in the air to breathe!!(I lived in a house with ASBESTOS SHINGLES for about 6 years in Virginia Beach.

They sent in a crew of 4 men,obviously NOT American citizens! THEY WERE DRESSED IN SPACE SUITS!!(Not really. They looked more like the fire resistant white suits with a window to look out of,that the Navy used in WWII to fight the fires of crashed planes,and rescue the pilots).They used orange based stuff to pry up the tiles,and more orange based stuff to clean the floor.(Never DID get rid of the evidence that there had been a tile floor there!

For all of history,Williamsburg had to be responsible for those tiles,where they were dumped. Sometime in the future,years from now,when land becomes less available,they will probably scoop up hundreds of cubic yards of old land fill junk. Williamsburg will have to send a team of men,probably still dressed in those asbestos impervious suits,to dig out those 200 or so tiles.and re dump them elsewhere.

The WORST dumping site I ever saw was down in Wilkesboro,N. Carolina,where I lived for 6 more years. They put up a mirror factory. A pretty NEW place,and yet,they had already filled a DEEP GORGE with millions of very sharp broken mirrors. I don't know if they were still using mercury on them,or not. it was a big secret ! Eventually,they filled up the gorge,which MUST have been at least 100 or more feet deep! They threw a FEW FEET of top soil over the broken mirrors and built houses over the glass,which was peeking little,razor sharp pieces of broken mirror already! I wondered if they still used mercury in the ingredients.

They had hired an old man,who was paid high wages,but who knew how to formulate and apply the mirror backings. Management was always spying on him to get his formula,so they could stop paying his high wages. He said to my father in law "Any fool could find out what I'm doing by looking at the chemicals I order". "I could fool them by ordering some wrong stuff,and flushing it down the toilet,but I never bother with that sort of stuff. One of these days they'll get it figured out,and I'll be gone!" Then,he'd find another mirror factor to set up. I wonder if we STILL make mirrors any more? I sure hope that those poor suckers living over that broken glass are alright. Stuff has a way of working its way to the surface!

[Steve Mathews]

I have this set, it replaced my blue-handled Marples (those with the white ring). Mine came with instructions to soak in lacquer thinner - that didn't work so well. I found that citrus stripper worked best (thick orange stuff sold at all the usual suspects) - coated the steel, waited about an hour and the coating wiped right off with a paper towel. I've really enjoyed these chisels and the edge can take a very decent beating before deteriorating; touching them up takes only a few seconds - literally less than 15 or 20 seconds on the finest medium most often.


John - Thanks for the informative and experienced response. Most others not so much.

[Graham Haydon]

John, Ken, my experience was similar to yours. However I did not even notice the lacquer! However, my "prep" includes raising a burr and then removing it on fine india. As long as it's "flat" enough to do that I'm happy. The steel felt a bit "Narex"? At lest it's not A2......... I sold them to a guy in our workshop after a while, think he's pleased with them.

Steve, I wouldn't feel bad about sending them back, they are a distance sell and if they don't meet your expectations then that's the way it goes. However, I'd prefer a decent coating of lacquer to ensure they didn't come to me rusty.

[george wilson]

Grind back the steel is perfectly valid. A certain amount of carbon is lost in the cutting edge of any cutting tool during the manufacturing process. I have an antique pocket knife made in Scotland. A 3 blade whittler. The big blade was worn too much,so I replaced it with a blade I forged out of a ball bearing. Ball bearing steel is used my many knife makers. Imagine how much abuse ball bearings have to take when you drive your car,run your thickness planer at 3450 RPM, or any other device that 0perates at high speeds and under heavy loads.

Every time I have sharpened this knife quite a few times. I remember that I didn't care for it so much at first. Now that I AM reaching "the good steel" it is the only knife I have carried for several years. The blade is a little smaller,but it holds a razor edge longer with every sharpening.

Old My Simms,whose worn out tools were seen on Roy's show,had chisels with about 8" blades. All antiques made in England. In 1970 he said the same thing to me: After they are worn back they will get better. I was disappointed to see the stubs of those chisels-about 3" long,left in the chest. His son was always a total klutz and unskillful,and he had inherited the chest. No need for those chisels to have gotten THAT short. And,his son probably burned the chisels every time he put them to the grinder.

[Frank Martin]

Any particular reason why you chose the Veritas chisels over the LNs? I'm seriously considering giving up on the 750s and replacing them with either the Veritas, LN or IBC set. The later just became known to me after watching a Rob Cosman video.

I chose Veritas because of the PMV11 steel and liked the handles better. In my opinion while both are made well, Veritas is the better made chisel when it comes to flatness and finish. I found LNs A2 chisels chipped too easily.

[John C Cox]

One comment about the stanley's....

Its easy to give them short shrift because they are a hardware store brand.... But their steel is good stuff and its very well heat treated.... They are quality chisels.

The steel is as good as anything out there in ghe same price range. They use the British version of 52100 - which is a high quality tool and bearing steel.... The steel is on par with that used in Pfeil, Stubai, Ulmia, MHG, Two Cherries.... . Its actually better steel than Narex uses (which is approximately in the viscinity of 1084).... This Stanley steel is even higher carbon steel than Lee Valley's O1 chisels... Its not junk...

On the coating. Its easy enough to deal with by just scraping the bulk off with the side of another chisel in the pack, card scraper, or kitchen knife .. once you scrape it mostly off - a good scrub with lacquer thinner takes the rest off.... A good paint stripper product should do the trick as well.

The Stanley chisels I own cleaned up very quickly and took a fine edge right out of the package. I believe they are a very good value for the price...

Now... If the well is poisoned and you simply can't abide by them for whatever reason - then send them back or on to the next person... Tools like this generally have a very good resale value should you decide to send them on down to the next person....

Anyway... They are your tools - do what seems right to you.

[steven c newman]

There is a Vintage Tool Dealer in my area......he coats any bare metal on tools with a sprayed on ClearCoat......very hard to remove. Includes both chisels and planes. Grrrrrr.

[John Kananis]

I'm considering grinding and polishing the bevels on mine to flatten them out, really would be a perfect set then.

[george wilson]

If those Stanleys are made of 52100,they ought to be excellent chisels. Especially after several sharpenings. As I mentioned with my pocket knife blade,I used 52100. It was in the form of 1 3/8" balls. Forged but not ground balls for real big bearings. Jon and I bought 2 5 gallon pales of it. Just last week,Jon got his cannon out and shot it several timers. Sounded like a huge pistol. He was only using a 1/2 load of black powder. The balls might reach the speed of sound if he loaded it up higher.

I made the trunnions and screwed them in very snug,using Loctite after all wasperfectly fitted. We wanted to make sure those trunnions would not come out!! Hence the light loads.

To make mu knife blade,I welded a ball onto a 2' long steel handle of 1/2" steel. The balls MUST,MUST,MUST be annealed or they will blow up after being welded in the one spot. I hammered the steel into a long rectangular bar about 3/4" x 1/4" x 12". Enough to make 2 blades,actually. It is a BAD steel to expose to te air when it is real hot. Decarbs freely. If I had it to do again,I'd make the forged billet larger than I did,drill the hole where the blade swivels,and harden the billet,THEN begin grinding it to final shape.

52100 is a simple steel,having only 3% chrome,and a very high carbon content. I
d like it even better if it had NO chrome. Then,it would be pretty much just W1 steel. W1 will take a sharper edge than an of the fancier alloyed steels.

[Tom Stenzel]

A few years ago I bought a new made in England Stanley 78, the iron had a clear coat on it. I would have left it but it caused the iron to slip in use even though I had tightened the screw down as hard as I dare.

I tried acetone, naptha (cigarette lighter fluid), nothing seemed to faze it. Then I tried regular isopropyl alcohol. The coating came off in short order. I don't know what they put on the chisels but you could try it.

Oh, and without the slippery coating the iron now stays put.

-Tom

[Frank Martin]

If those Stanleys are made of 52100,they ought to be excellent chisels. Especially after several sharpenings. As I mentioned with my pocket knife blade,I used 52100. It was in the form of 1 3/8" balls. Forged but not ground balls for real big bearings. Jon and I bought 2 5 gallon pales of it. Just last week,Jon got his cannon out and shot it several timers. Sounded like a huge pistol. He was only using a 1/2 load of black powder. The balls might reach the speed of sound if he loaded it up higher.

I made the trunnions and screwed them in very snug,using Loctite after all wasperfectly fitted. We wanted to make sure those trunnions would not come out!! Hence the light loads.

To make mu knife blade,I welded a ball onto a 2' long steel handle of 1/2" steel. The balls MUST,MUST,MUST be annealed or they will blow up after being welded in the one spot. I hammered the steel into a long rectangular bar about 3/4" x 1/4" x 12". Enough to make 2 blades,actually. It is a BAD steel to expose to te air when it is real hot. Decarbs freely. If I had it to do again,I'd make the forged billet larger than I did,drill the hole where the blade swivels,and harden the billet,THEN begin grinding it to final shape.

52100 is a simple steel,having only 3% chrome,and a very high carbon content. I
d like it even better if it had NO chrome. Then,it would be pretty much just W1 steel. W1 will take a sharper edge than an of the fancier alloyed steels.

This makes me want to try the Stanley chisels. If I do, I will report back with comparison to Veritas chisels. Sounds to me Stanleys may be an excellent value. I absolutely don't expect the finish of Veritas but may be quite sufficient with more frequent sharpening / honing after initial prep.

[lowell holmes]

I bought my Lie Nielsen chisels when they were introduced. I never regretted it. I have both bevel edge and mortise chisels. They are a pleasure to pick up and then use. I'm not one that worries about alloy, I know when a tool pleases me and Lie Nielsens do. I did have to use hairspray on the handles and sockets to keep them from falling off.

[Joe Williams]

I bought my Lie Nielsen chisels when they were introduced. I never regretted it. I have both bevel edge and mortise chisels. They are a pleasure to pick up and then use. I'm not one that worries about alloy, I know when a tool pleases me and Lie Nielsens do. I did have to use hairspray on the handles and sockets to keep them from falling off.

I am with you! First set I ever owned is the full set of LN Bench and then I bought the mortise set. I love socket chisels because you can have paring handles or whatever you want! I do get annoyed at them falling out, I guess it's probably time for hairspray too.

Later though I did end up getting a set of Blue Spruce dovetail chisels and now I would love to have the bench set, the butt set and just about every other set he makes. The Blue Spruce to me are in a class all by themselves. I sometimes wish I had never seen them, I know my wallet does.

[Robert Engel]

I own only 1 750 chisel just to try it. Not impressed with edge retention (neither with my Narex, but they are better than the 750's). But for me, the biggest problem is the handle is WAY too small and the chisel is too light. The side bevels are also pretty high for dovetail work. I use it only rarely.

I have 2 sets of chisels: blue handled Irwins + Narex premium. The Irwins occupy a row in my tool cab because I've found for general use they are very acceptable. They take a LOT of work to get the backs flat, tho.

The other row is a set of Narex premiums. I'm satisfied with them, I like the larger handles my only knock is edge retention.

If I had to do all over again, I would keep the heavy duty Irwins, but instead of the Narex, just go with LN in 1/4, 1/2 and 1" to start and build a set from there.

[lowell holmes]

It is not uncommon to keep a stone on the bench and touch up when needed. It only takes a few seconds. FWIW, I have not experienced that with my Lie Nielsens.

Also, I have a Stanley 16-791 from Lowes that is my nail apron chisel.