A sharpening idea I've never heard of

[Jim Belair]

On Tico Vogt's blog he suggests an alternative to stropping that I've never heard of before. I'll let him tell it....

The final step in honing the secondary bevel for my shooting plane irons is to push them into the end grain of a Maple stick charged with 0.5 micron diamond paste and sliding side to side. This ensures that the burr is removed, while not dubbing the edge as stropping might. Shooting end grain puts a premium on having a keen edge.

My initial thought is that this may be detrimental to the edge during the "push in" stage. Interested in others' opinions.

[Jim Koepke]

It is another validation of the theory that what one believes can be as important as what really takes place.

As is so often the case, what works for one doesn't necessarily work for all.

As in your initial thought, as soon as the blade's arris presses against the end grain there is likely some edge degradation. Once in, there is no guarantee the opening will perfectly form a fit to the bevel.

jtk

[Jason Dean]

I've never tried it with standard irons, but I knock the burr off my toothed irons by driving (lightly) into end grain, skipping the diamond paste.

I strop on leather charged with green strop compound to knock the burr of of everything else.

[Pete Taran]

There might be something to it. I shave (when I shave) with an old fashioned double edged razor blade. The best blades are made in Japan, and standard practice is to draw it through a cork before using the first time. It really does make a difference in the damage to your face. No paste is applied, but I think it's the same idea.

[Derek Cohen]

Cutting end grain with the blade to remove the wire edge is an old trick. However I have not attempted it with compound. Sounds a useful idea to explore for someone (I do not use this method). I would suggest that it is more valuable for those that hone a micro secondary bevel. Even more so, if they also use the Ruler Trick. Those circumstances make it less easy to remove the wire by working both sides of the blade.

Pete, I also use Feather blades in a DE safety razor (I have two Feather razors - a stainless steel one and a plastic version, plus a couple of vintage razors - the plastic Feather is my favourite). I have not thought that there is a wire to remove.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Pete Taran]

Derek,

I think it just consolidates the edge and maybe burnishes it slightly. Try it and see if you think it makes for a smoother shave. Feathers are scary scarp, but you can take off a layer of skin if you are not careful. :D

[John K Jordan]

...as soon as the blade's arris presses against the end grain there is likely some edge degradation.

I don't read this forum much so sorry if this has been discussed. Has anyone tried a sharpness tester to objectively evaluate edges and sharpening techniques?

I have the PT50B show here.
http://www.edgeonup.com/

The method used seems very repeatable when I try it with knives fresh from my sharpening machine and with a chisel I sharpened with Tormek and leather strop. I haven't tried it on a plane blade

JKJ

[glenn bradley]

It is another validation of the theory that what one believes can be as important as what really takes place.

Not true! I swear I get a finer edge when I hold penny between my toes and swing a dead chicken over my head while stropping. Seriously though, if you find something that "works" for you, then do it. We make entirely too much of the method of sharpening versus the result of a sharp edge.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Not true! I swear I get a finer edge when I hold penny between my toes and swing a dead chicken over my head while stropping. Seriously though, if you find something that "works" for you, then do it. We make entirely too much of the method of sharpening versus the result of a sharp edge.


This only works with older wheat pennies and only if the chicken is swung clockwise. Seriously- if you're going to give advice here, do it right.

[James Pallas]

It seems that I remember from some old sharpening instructions that you should run the edge across the edge of a board or the edge of your bench, of all things. The purpose as I remember was to assure the removal of the wire edge. The diamond paste is new to me however. It may well work, a bit like palm stropping I would guess. It may be the ultimate trick. Im going out to get a chicken right away, I'm guessing a live one may work even better:)
Jim

[Jim Koepke]

This only works with older wheat pennies and only if the chicken is swung clockwise. Seriously- if you're going to give advice here, do it right.

Dang, I have been using old large cents thinking that was what was in circulation when this technique was first discovered.

I like my chicken, so she has been spared and the latest mouse to be trapped is usually employed in this ritual.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Working at the bench, while chopping a lot of joints and such.......have been known to swipe the chisel along the pants leg of my jeans.....a few on the bevel, a couple on the back, back to work.

Not sure IF it matters which brand of jeans works best.....

[William Fretwell]

Another sharpening thread.....and razors...... Does anyone have a scanning electron microscope? I've always wanted one but they take up a lot of space and the vacuum pump is noisy.
Removing the 'foil' with end grain is a strop for both sides at once, it may leave nano serrations, but without the electron microscope we may never know.

[Bill McNiel]

Working at the bench, while chopping a lot of joints and such.......have been known to swipe the chisel along the pants leg of my jeans.....a few on the bevel, a couple on the back, back to work.

Not sure IF it matters which brand of jeans works best.....

Only really works with Levis, the older ones that were made in the USA.

[Kees Heiden]

No idea about the endgrain thing. But what is this dubbing thing he talks about? You hear it often in talks about stropping but I'm afraid I have no clue about how to accomplish dubbing on a nice hard strop.

[Jim Koepke]

No idea about the endgrain thing. But what is this dubbing thing he talks about? You hear it often in talks about stropping but I'm afraid I have no clue about how to accomplish dubbing on a nice hard strop.

A little roll in your pull and you could round over the edge, thus 'dubbing' it Sir Dulls a Lot.

jtk

[Kees Heiden]

Ah, okay, that's easy. Don't roll over ;)

[george wilson]

Another silly idea: Someone told me long ago that a wood carver in Mexico sharpened his carving tools by jabbing them several times into a bag full of sand. Poor carving tools!!!!!:(:(:(

This thread has been about another silly idea that you should all FORGEDDABOUDIT!!!!

[John K Jordan]

Another sharpening thread.....and razors...... Does anyone have a scanning electron microscope?

You ship a blade or two, I can get SEM photos. I'll verify beforehand.

JKJ

[John K Jordan]

Another silly idea: Someone told me long ago that a wood carver in Mexico sharpened his carving tools by jabbing them several times into a bag full of sand. Poor carving tools!!!!!:(:(:(


A teen in the 60's, I read this in the syndicated newspaper column "Hints from Heloise" on how to sharpen scissors: Make several cuts through a sheet of coarse sandpaper.

This may have been the thing that got me started down the path of skepticism and critical thinking.

JKJ

[bridger berdel]

I occasionally use methods to remove a burr other than honing or stropping it off, but generally this will happen at the coarse end of the process, rather than at the finish. For instance the bench grinder leaves a big ragged burr that obscures the edge. A slice against some soft wood will tear that burr off of there. I don't worry about the effect on the edge at that point as there is still plenty of honing to follow.

The idea of doing that instead of stropping as a final step might work but doesn't appeal to me. Enough said.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I'm a very basic sharpener and strongly believe that you only sharpen to "sharp enough". Rough work tools get minimal sharpening, finishing edges like smooth plane get the full treatment, and paring chisels get the full treatment and then some. If any level of sharpening cuts to your satisfaction and produces the finish you need it is sharp enough. I get amused quite often with sharpening threads here. I am truly convinced that some folks have turned sharpening into a major fetish. As always, it is only my opinion and I reserve the right to snicker behind everyone's back.

[Edwin Santos]

On Tico Vogt's blog he suggests an alternative to stropping that I've never heard of before. I'll let him tell it....

The final step in honing the secondary bevel for my shooting plane irons is to push them into the end grain of a Maple stick charged with 0.5 micron diamond paste and sliding side to side. This ensures that the burr is removed, while not dubbing the edge as stropping might. Shooting end grain puts a premium on having a keen edge.

My initial thought is that this may be detrimental to the edge during the "push in" stage. Interested in others' opinions.




Common practice for removing the wire edge when sharpening scissors, except for the part about charging the end grain with abrasive. NOT applicable to sharper bevels and finer edges on tools like chisels, knives and plane irons.

Also, you don't "push in", you just draw the scissor edge across the end grain.

[Jim Koepke]

A teen in the 60's, I read this in the syndicated newspaper column "Hints from Heloise" on how to sharpen scissors: Make several cuts through a sheet of coarse sandpaper.

This may have been the thing that got me started down the path of skepticism and critical thinking.

JKJ

My skepticism and thinking was already going when that "helpful" advice was making the rounds.

If shearing cloth or paper dulls a blade, how is doing the same action with something more abrasive going to do an opposite action to dulling?



I'm a very basic sharpener and strongly believe that you only sharpen to "sharp enough". Rough work tools get minimal sharpening, finishing edges like smooth plane get the full treatment, and paring chisels get the full treatment and then some. If any level of sharpening cuts to your satisfaction and produces the finish you need it is sharp enough. I get amused quite often with sharpening threads here. I am truly convinced that some folks have turned sharpening into a major fetish. As always, it is only my opinion and I reserve the right to snicker behind everyone's back.

Somewhat the same on this. My scrub plane blade doesn't have to be as hair popping sharp as my smoothing plane's blade. The skill is being able to get the blade as sharp as is needed/desired. It is a bit of an obsession to work the weed wacker's line trimmer to the point of being able to use it for a shave.

jtk

[David farmer]

Another sharpening thread.....and razors...... Does anyone have a scanning electron microscope? I've always wanted one but they take up a lot of space and the vacuum pump is noisy.
Removing the 'foil' with end grain is a strop for both sides at once, it may leave nano serrations, but without the electron microscope we may never know.


Here's some interesting truth via SEM.

https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/

[John K Jordan]

Here's some interesting truth via SEM.

https://scienceofsharp.wordpress.com/

Excellent information on the whole site! I like the way they used the same section of the razor edge for each comparison shot.

I have good optical lab microscopes and can testify that evaluating a sharpened steel edge from the side is difficult. An SEM at home would be fun. For a rich person. I see some on Ebay for big bucks. Even then some descriptions mention things like it seems to be in "nice" shape or seems to be complete, no promises. A friend of mine has a new one in his office - probably cost more than my farm!

JKJ